Newbie 1888 | Stuff I Found Online IV | Over

[Formerfish]

I don't "go after people" but

I certainly do lynch scum

.

Do you have evidence of the bolded? Like I say that, but then I back it up with proof.

[Formerfish]

Page 8:

Spoiler:

So most of the content in this game seems to be the Mister Rodgers vs Inferno argument. I’m not really sure that anything meaningful came out of it, and it could very well just be a heated TvT dispute that came out of differences in playstyle. However, what interests me the most so far is how xx2008 has responded to things.

First, xx2008 votes for Mister Rodgers in 49. As MR pointed out in 88, xx’s vote for MR came just three minutes after Inferno’s own vote for MR. Now it is possible that xx started typing up his post before Inferno made his own post where he voted for MR, and xx simply ignored the warning about their being new posts when he went to submit his own post. However, xx’s subsequent posts and behavior makes me doubt that.

So he votes for MR in 49, and then in 64 and 67, he says that his vote for MR is purely RVS and not serious. He also claims he did not see the second page at the time he posted, which implies that he thought that no one else had voted for MR at the time he voted for MR. xx’s posts 49, 64, 67, 72, 73, and 78 were all made within about an hour timespan, and he maintains throughout these posts that 1) his vote for MR is

PURELY RVS

and 2) that he was

completely unaware

of the fact that Inferno had already voted for MR at the time he placed his own vote for MR. But then my question is this: If xx did NOT intend to start a potential bandwagon against MR (or anyone else for that matter),

why didn’t he simply unvote (or randomly vote for someone else who didn’t have any votes) as soon as he realized that Inferno had already voted for MR?

All he had to do was to make a post to the effect of “I didn’t realize MR already had someone voting for him, and I don’t want to start a bandwagon against him, so I am going to vote for someone else that has no votes (or unvote)”. It literally would have been that simple. But instead, he simultaneously 1) maintains that his vote for MR is purely RVS and not serious or based on scumreading him, 2) maintains that he wasn’t aware that Inferno already had voted for MR and implies that he wouldn’t have voted for MR if he had known that Inferno already voted for him, and 3) keeps his vote on MR anyways despite 1) and 2). There were plenty of people who had no votes that he could have placed an RVS vote on, and yet he chooses to keep his vote on MR. The whole thing just comes off as highly contradictory and suspect to me.

And also in 78, he again reinforces the fact that his vote for MR was purely RVS, but then at the same time is defending himself when he says, “Although you shouldn't go after Inferno right away during RVS”. Why does he feel the need to justify himself here if his vote for MR was purely RVS? More specifically, if the vote truly was RVS, then why does he in the same sentence 1) reiterate the fact that the vote was RVS and 2) criticize MR for “going after” Inferno? I don’t know, but it just feels like he is almost trying to cover his bases, like he wants his vote to somehow simultaneously be both RVS but also serious because he found MR to be scummy in his interactions with Inferno, which he directly said in his earlier post 72. It’s either pure RVS or it’s serious; it can’t be both at the same time.

Then about four hours after he made post 78, he makes post 133, where his tune seems to have changed completely. At this point, what was supposedly an initial pure RVS vote has now turned into a full-fledged serious vote based on him now scumreading MR. Is this town!xx2008 developing a more solidified scumread on someone who just happened to be his initial RVS vote by chance, or is it scum!xx2008 realizing that he needs to come up with some sort of justification if he is going to keep his vote on MR? I don’t know yet, but I do find the reasoning behind his scumread of MR in 133 to be pretty bad. He basically says here that he thinks MR is scum because he 1) posts too much and 2) because he tried to get a reaction out of Inferno. At the end he says, “Constantly trying to get a reaction out of someone might make it seem like they are scum when they are not”, which I really don’t like. Why is he so against things like reaction testing and pressing people for answers? Engaging people and asking them questions to get to the bottom of their motivations is literally what this game is all about, and sometimes people have to be pressed/pushed in order to do that. Sometimes aggression is exactly what is needed in this game to uncover both town and scum. Overall, his scumread of MR is extremely weak, in my opinion. And why does xx place all of the blame on MR for the long and drawn-out MR vs Inferno debate? Both MR and Inferno equally contributed to how long and drawn-out their argument was, yet xx only has a problem with MR “posting too much”.

I didn’t like xx’s post 153 where says, “And, why are you going after post times? Doesn't this seem like scum trying to find an excuse to get someone?”. Here he is criticizing a legitimate tactic and trying to shutdown discussion. If MR suspects that xx is scum, then it makes a lot of sense to reiterate the post times regarding when Inferno and xx voted for MR. If xx is in fact scum, then the fact that Inferno voted for MR at 12:07 P.M. (see post 48) and xx voted for MR

three minutes later

at 12:10 P.M. (see post 49) is VERY relevant, as it would clearly indicate that xx purposely sheeped Inferno’s vote to start a bandwagon against MR.

And I really didn’t like xx’s post 172 as it just seems like lazy scumhunting. OK, so he’s made it clear at this point that MR is his top scumread, but why in the world does he just assume that the other member of the scumteam is more likely to be among the replacements rather than the original players? This doesn’t even make any sense. The original players that are being replaced are nastytoe (replaced by me), boguspotatohead (not replaced yet), and innocentvillager (not replaced yet). IV’s only content was basically saying that he wanted to replace out because he doesn’t want to play with MR, and NT and BPH literally have no content in the game. And at the time xx wrote post 172, I didn’t have any content in this game either. If anything, shouldn’t xx be nullreading these 3 slots which (at the time) basically had zero content collectively in this game?

Anyways, for now I am going to park my vote on xx as I would like him to explain himself and especially his scumread of MR more, and he is the most suspicious player for me at the moment.

VOTE: xx2008

Holy shit this is a lot of words to say you also think xx is scum. I dunno how I feel about a replacement coming in and immediately seeming to come to the aid of Mr. R in his witchhunts. Like this post is just...wow.

So most of the content in this game seems to be the Engaging people and asking them questions to get to the bottom of their motivations is literally what this game is all about, and sometimes people have to be pressed/pushed in order to do that. Sometimes aggression is exactly what is needed in this game to uncover both town and scum.

Thank you sir. If there has been one thing burning in my heart for this town to hear, it is the above quote. Thank you.

This just feels like a scum circle jerk.

Heyo, I'll 100% be able to post tomorrow, today was pretty full on so didn't manage to get any mafia stuff done.

Stop prodoging. This is me saying it, but I think I speak for the rest of us. You need to shit or get off the pot.

Nice post Hugo thanks. I would like to point out that I immediately pointed out to XX that I was at L-3 and they immediately demonstrated that they knew what that meant. Therefore we can see that XX had no intention of changing their vote. IMO it appears as if they just decided to magically make up a reason to stay. :shrug:

Just for clarification, putting someone at L-3 is no crime even in the RVS but what bothers me is the cog-dis way in which this wagon was created by XX.

2 votes still is not a wagon.

[Mister Rogers]

I don't "go after people" but

I certainly do lynch scum

.

Do you have evidence of the bolded? Like I say that, but then I back it up with proof.

Sure I can provide alts where I do a great job running the table nailing scum after scum.

[Formerfish]

Spoiler:

@Draynth: So have you two been a hydra before? What does this "twin" stuff actually mean?

@Draynth: Mind if I ask what the difference is between an "inside joke" and a "regular joke"?

First do these questions have anything to do with how you will read someone? Second, how

do

you feel about rvs because you don’t put an rvs vote down, and you seem to be making a serious vote on Hugo in post 12?

Yes. There are two things to keep in mind. One, every detail can ultimately matter at some point in the game.; e.g. if Dray/Worst have been a Hydra, this could indicate how they should be able to read each other and can be very helpful to town. With the "joke" thing, it appeared to me that Dray seemed to annotate his first statement a little bit unconfortably and so I pressed on that to see if something might pop loose; I eventually discovered that he meant to say that it is an open joke that other people know and if anything, it was a step towards being honest (for whatever that is worth)

Furthermore, I scum hunt the RVS and do not place random votes. This gets to the final part here. I don't actually think random voting is responsible and it goes against my playstyle, which is to be responsible for everything that I do. There is an entire science behind scum hunting the RVS. You know, scum have to open the game too, just like they have to vote and make up reads and everything else about the game. A person that pays very close attention can actually catch scum on page one. Its a fine art and one that I pursue every game.

The rest is a back and forth between MR and Infer. I think MR is being overly critical of Infer and don’t mind that Infer stepped in to correct something. MR, what info did you hope to gain from Hugo by pressuring him over what you misunderstood from his vote?

I believe that he may have entered the game being self-consciously nervous about his L-3 vote of Worst and expressed this by using the word "also" with a serious vote of his own but where the original vote was a random one. By him explaining in excruciating detail exactly why he voted Worst, I saw a snapshot of his mental state that I believe was 100% honest and clearly, my suspicions were incorrect.

1. I dont mind the questions you asked, did anything pop loose or did they turn out to be duds?
2. I get scum hunting from rvs, i think I am one of the few people who do believe in it. My ability comes a little later when we have some flips to use for associative tells from rvs votes.
3. Why would anyone be worried about a second vote on someone page 1?

[Formerfish]

Spoiler:

I find Hugo's creation of a Worst wagon unnaturally phrased. I don't find your argument against this to be accurate. He makes a team vote out of a single vote that is only his.

2 votes during rvs does not a wagon make. Why are you trying to add importance to an event that is a nonissue?

I disagree. 2 votes at any time, a wagon start. If scum can get a quicklynch in RVS they will try and do so. If scum can create a push towards a wagon without responsibility it is advantageous to do so. Not to mention that scum will always be overly conscious about their votes (which are always fake) and so it is to our advantage to pay attention to how players vote and why.

Good enough sir!

Unvote

This seems like a weak unvote. Like what Hugo said could have easily been implied by his voting post, and Infer was correct in how he took Hugos post. Why did you need Hugo to parrot what Infer said for you to see that what you were doing was tilting at windmills, Don Q?

LOL. No, but if you are trying to tell me that Hugo simply parroted what Inf said, I most assuredly beg to differ. Post #31 is a goldmine of truthful posting that reveals much about why Hugo placed his vote. I like that post very much. Unvoting is not weak, it is a great sign of strength when done properly.

The rest is that I am scum hunting I am sorry if it bothers you and that as far as Infer/myself, I have already stated twice we are both accusing ourselves of the same thing. This is why I still have a very shaky town read on him.

We can agree to disagree about what a wagon is. And if scum goes for a quicklynch in rvs then this game is going to be very short because we would have a small group for scum to be in. Kinda why we advocate for town to not quick/lolhammer because we shouldnt do it. And if you are so concerned with who votes who and why and the flow of the game you would stop inserting yourself directly into the stream, cause you are kinda forcing the flow to go right around you no matter what.

Fixed broken quote tags --P

[Mister Rogers]

So most of the content in this game seems to be the Engaging people and asking them questions to get to the bottom of their motivations is literally what this game is all about, and sometimes people have to be pressed/pushed in order to do that. Sometimes aggression is exactly what is needed in this game to uncover both town and scum.

Thank you sir. If there has been one thing burning in my heart for this town to hear, it is the above quote. Thank you.

This just feels like a scum circle jerk.

DEWD! Its 100% sincere! I literally just spent the day being accused of being "aggressive" which is "scummy" and getting voted for it. I literally wanted to do a full on "classroom post" where I described exactly how important it is to make agresive queries that are associated with accusations to shake the scum loose and how a passive town just hands the win to the scum. WE HAVE TO MAKE THE SCUM TREMBLE!!

Besides we can all put on a tinfoil hat and say that you and xx share a QT but pfffft I simply restrain myself because like you said earlier, flips matter when making associations.

[volxen]

so far I think inferno xx2008 rogers and Hugo seem like town, roughly in that order.

which leaves me wondering... if this is a consular ship...where is the ambassador?

So on the first day you are already townreading 4 out of the other 8 players in this game (besides yourself), and provide no explanation as to why any of them are towny? You are saying that you think you have already narrowed down the scumteam to fourt slot (my slot, FormerFish's slot, BogusPotatoHead's slot, and Draynth's slot). You need to elaborate a lot more on this.

[Formerfish]

Page 5:

You had better replace out then because I am not going to this time.

Can you explain the backstory to this post?

Ya its quite the horror story. It is the first game that is in my post history. Before I started playing again, after a 5 year absence, I re-read my games and I noticed IV was in that horrific miscarriage of a Mafia game. Then I noticed that he was in the list for this game after I had already signed up and been conmfirmed. I thought to myself, "OMGOSH -- I hope this guy doesn't wig out over something that happened 5 years ago". Anyway he enters the thread, throwing down a terrible post and I knew exactly where this was going. These guys refuse to recognize, even to this day, that if you fake a PR claim -- YOU NEED TO EAT ROPE -- and the last thing that you can do is blame someone else for pushing that for the benefit of the town. I simply let him know that if he was going to trash up the thread and expect me to replace out that I wasn't going to. Look I will be honest here -- it is immature to blame someone else for being negative affected by your own (or someone else's) bad play without AT LEAST factoring that bad play as a major component of that criticism. That's pretty much it in a nutshell.

thats fair. Ive been in some horror show games and have had to deal with some shit people. I dont think ive ever had to replace out over anyone before though.

[Formerfish]

Page 6:

VOTE: the worst
He's my twin and one twin is always evil

So Worst, mind explaining what this is all about?

Why are you asking worst to explain a post made by Dray?

I am going to start calling you out on nitpickng without putting in any conscious thought from here on out. I clearly wanted:

1) To verify Dray's veracity
2) To test Worst's willingness to disclose their relationship and the details thereof
3) To notate what this relationship consists of for further reads on their slots

Pardon me if your questioning here is sincere because I am getting the feeling that it may not be?

I needed to figure out why you were asking player b to answer for player a while you are querying people who defend others against you. Also, worth pointing out that Infer defended both hugo and XX, they all 3 cant be scum. Just saying.

Not every question I ask is going to be the one that breaks through anything, but i never know what connections I will make based off answers unless I ask. If time allows I can explain that last part more. Just think of me as a 7-11, it might not always be doing business but they are always open.

[Formerfish]

Page 7:

Spoiler:

Inferno

-- shaky but town, I think a genuine misunderstanding possibly even over semantics ("shade" vs. "attack" etc). In my vocabulary, the work "mudslinging" is what I think is the same thing as "shade" which I believe originated off-site. Mudlsinging is when there is a BASELESS OR CULPABLY INACCURATE accusation made which is how we are able to differentiate between town-oriented queries.

Hugo

-- Townish. Nothing to go on yet. I think the reasons restraining his vote of myself could be better but I think the fact he hasn't piled on gives him quite a bit of town credit.

Worst

-- Null. Most of the posting seems to be related to the game state which is why he gets a pass for loaded questions as well. I don't think I will be able to properly read him until all slots have posted in some way.

Dray

-- Null. Friend of Worst. Hopefully they are both not scum. Waiting for more material.

XX

-- Scum. I find his entrance to my wagon to be less than genuine. First he says that he random voted before he had caught up but coicidentally made the next post after a vote was put on my slot and immediately says he has reasons for the vote being there but then claims that he had only read to page one and voted me mechanically. I got whiplash trying to understand why he voted me.

3 replacement slots

-- Null. Not enough material.

Not trying to get myself town read by you, but lets talk about my preds replace out. Do you see that as something scum would ever do if you were town? And the shit posting from you on this page felt weird, like shitting naked.

Look this thing is not game related, the posts connected to it are specifically related to something outside this game, its NAI. Its kind of like a situation that you have to be in to understand, you know?

I guess my thing is that if I were scum in this game and knew that you werent I wouldnt replace out because I would try and get you on tilt and make bad plays so that I could use our bad history against you. Im not saying tr me for that at all, but it is something to think about with regards to motivation.

[Formerfish]

I don't "go after people" but

I certainly do lynch scum

.

Do you have evidence of the bolded? Like I say that, but then I back it up with proof.

Sure I can provide alts where I do a great job running the table nailing scum after scum.

Im confused. You have alts on this site? I thought you played a few games years ago and only recently started back?

[Mister Rogers]

Spoiler:

@Draynth: So have you two been a hydra before? What does this "twin" stuff actually mean?

@Draynth: Mind if I ask what the difference is between an "inside joke" and a "regular joke"?

First do these questions have anything to do with how you will read someone? Second, how

do

you feel about rvs because you don’t put an rvs vote down, and you seem to be making a serious vote on Hugo in post 12?

Yes. There are two things to keep in mind. One, every detail can ultimately matter at some point in the game.; e.g. if Dray/Worst have been a Hydra, this could indicate how they should be able to read each other and can be very helpful to town. With the "joke" thing, it appeared to me that Dray seemed to annotate his first statement a little bit unconfortably and so I pressed on that to see if something might pop loose; I eventually discovered that he meant to say that it is an open joke that other people know and if anything, it was a step towards being honest (for whatever that is worth)

Furthermore, I scum hunt the RVS and do not place random votes. This gets to the final part here. I don't actually think random voting is responsible and it goes against my playstyle, which is to be responsible for everything that I do. There is an entire science behind scum hunting the RVS. You know, scum have to open the game too, just like they have to vote and make up reads and everything else about the game. A person that pays very close attention can actually catch scum on page one. Its a fine art and one that I pursue every game.

The rest is a back and forth between MR and Infer. I think MR is being overly critical of Infer and don’t mind that Infer stepped in to correct something. MR, what info did you hope to gain from Hugo by pressuring him over what you misunderstood from his vote?

I believe that he may have entered the game being self-consciously nervous about his L-3 vote of Worst and expressed this by using the word "also" with a serious vote of his own but where the original vote was a random one. By him explaining in excruciating detail exactly why he voted Worst, I saw a snapshot of his mental state that I believe was 100% honest and clearly, my suspicions were incorrect.

1. I dont mind the questions you asked, did anything pop loose or did they turn out to be duds?
2. I get scum hunting from rvs, i think I am one of the few people who do believe in it. My ability comes a little later when we have some flips to use for associative tells from rvs votes.
3. Why would anyone be worried about a second vote on someone page 1?

OK! Now I am starting to like you more. Sure, I have quite a nice town read on Hugo due to our interactions. I learned about connections between Dray (thank you for the post prodding him!) and Worst and I also learned alot about Inf.

I love the fact that you scum hunt the RVS! I use it to completely avoid random voting and that way all my actions are sincere and make sense; I never have to say "sorry it was just random".

This is a small game. L-3 is a position in the hierarchy. It is a step in direction of a lynch. It is a great topic to push on, inquire about and pursue to get reads.

[Formerfish]

Spoiler:

@Draynth: So have you two been a hydra before? What does this "twin" stuff actually mean?

@Draynth: Mind if I ask what the difference is between an "inside joke" and a "regular joke"?

First do these questions have anything to do with how you will read someone? Second, how

do

you feel about rvs because you don’t put an rvs vote down, and you seem to be making a serious vote on Hugo in post 12?

Yes. There are two things to keep in mind. One, every detail can ultimately matter at some point in the game.; e.g. if Dray/Worst have been a Hydra, this could indicate how they should be able to read each other and can be very helpful to town. With the "joke" thing, it appeared to me that Dray seemed to annotate his first statement a little bit unconfortably and so I pressed on that to see if something might pop loose; I eventually discovered that he meant to say that it is an open joke that other people know and if anything, it was a step towards being honest (for whatever that is worth)

Furthermore, I scum hunt the RVS and do not place random votes. This gets to the final part here. I don't actually think random voting is responsible and it goes against my playstyle, which is to be responsible for everything that I do. There is an entire science behind scum hunting the RVS. You know, scum have to open the game too, just like they have to vote and make up reads and everything else about the game. A person that pays very close attention can actually catch scum on page one. Its a fine art and one that I pursue every game.

The rest is a back and forth between MR and Infer. I think MR is being overly critical of Infer and don’t mind that Infer stepped in to correct something. MR, what info did you hope to gain from Hugo by pressuring him over what you misunderstood from his vote?

I believe that he may have entered the game being self-consciously nervous about his L-3 vote of Worst and expressed this by using the word "also" with a serious vote of his own but where the original vote was a random one. By him explaining in excruciating detail exactly why he voted Worst, I saw a snapshot of his mental state that I believe was 100% honest and clearly, my suspicions were incorrect.

1. I dont mind the questions you asked, did anything pop loose or did they turn out to be duds?
2. I get scum hunting from rvs, i think I am one of the few people who do believe in it. My ability comes a little later when we have some flips to use for associative tells from rvs votes.
3. Why would anyone be worried about a second vote on someone page 1?

OK! Now I am starting to like you more. Sure, I have quite a nice town read on Hugo due to our interactions. I learned about connections between Dray (thank you for the post prodding him!) and Worst and I also learned alot about Inf.

I love the fact that you scum hunt the RVS! I use it to completely avoid random voting and that way all my actions are sincere and make sense; I never have to say "sorry it was just random".

This is a small game. L-3 is a position in the hierarchy. It is a step in direction of a lynch. It is a great topic to push on, inquire about and pursue to get reads.

I am always very aware of where my vote goes as scum in rvs. I think rvs is an underrated tool to use in scum hunting and everyone just wants to get out of it as quickly as possible. I see it as a perfect opportunity to get info because most people dont even realize they are giving it away when they do until later when its too late.

[Mister Rogers]

I have played on this site all the way back to Lamont_Cranston, off and on for very many years but I haven't played Mafia for 5 years and this was the last account I have ever used. I don't use my old alts but they are still like laying around apparently. :shrug:

Wow I so totally agree about RVS. I think I could learn alot from you about it. I learned about it from Mastin (studying his play).

[Formerfish]

I have played on this site all the way back to Lamont_Cranston, off and on for very many years but I haven't played Mafia for 5 years and this was the last account I have ever used. I don't use my old alts but they are still like laying around apparently. :shrug:

Wow I so totally agree about RVS. I think I could learn alot from you about it. I learned about it from Mastin

a

(studying

his

her play).

Fixed that for you. And Im not interested in your dead meta. How many games do you have in the last year?

[Mister Rogers]

LOL we are both like 7-11's.

Ya I am still confused about that one. I am not sure why I thot Mastin was a he...

[Mister Rogers]

No. I seriously haven't played for 5 years. I love this game though and eventually it crawled back under my skin.

[Formerfish]

LOL we are both like 7-11's.

Ya I am still confused about that one. I am not sure why I thot Mastin was a he...

There was a transition, I think it would have been in the last 5 years, cause it happened after I joined and that was in 13 i think. I just try to be more aware because i have a habit of misgendering people by accident.

[Formerfish]

No. I seriously haven't played for 5 years. I love this game though and eventually it crawled back under my skin.

Ok, just dont get bent out of shape if someone doesnt follow your reads 100% yet. There are people ive played multiple games with recently who i wouldnt trust to pick the scum team out of a 2 man lineup. More posting like youve had with me is what id like to see. Less posting where you are jumping to conclusions and using your vote like a hammer would be nice.

[Mister Rogers]

I am very anxious to see the final replace. I think we have an excellent shot at breaking this game!

He I don't get that where you say "I use my vote as a hammer". I specifically don't do that. For me, every move of my vote matters, ALOT. I have simply made 2 votes and that's all. So I don't get what you mean by that...

[Mister Rogers]

No I love discussing the game state and sharing reads and such like that. Reads are extremely important and where we differ, matters.

[Mister Rogers]

I am holding Volx as town.

Definitely need material from Worst,Dray [NEW SLOT] and Hugo should share a gamewide view?

[Formerfish]

I am very anxious to see the final replace. I think we have an excellent shot at breaking this game!

He I don't get that where you say "I use my vote as a hammer". I specifically don't do that. For me, every move of my vote matters, ALOT. I have simply made 2 votes and that's all. So I don't get what you mean by that...

Im looking forward to them as well, i dont like playing games that arent fully staffed so to say.

And maybe im being hyperbolic about your vote. It could just be a difference in playstyle, but i tend to leave mine somewhere until I dont want it there anymore. Its not a big thing.

Are you seeing Volx as town because of their xx read?

[volxen]

I am holding Volx as town.

Definitely need material from Worst,Dray [NEW SLOT] and Hugo should share a gamewide view?

What specifically has led you to townread me?

[Formerfish]

No I love discussing the game state and sharing reads and such like that. Reads are extremely important and where we differ, matters.

I'm feeling better about your slot now.