Newbie 1888 | Stuff I Found Online IV | Over

[xx2008]

Messed up the formatting in the above post, forgot I didn't have to type "vote" again.
UNVOTE: Unvote

Fixed unvote tag for automated vote counter --P

[Inferno390]

So I’m really behind, and a lot of what has been said in the last 24 hours requires more than just the average skim
I’m going to try and catch up shortly and give some thoughts

[Inferno390]

I have played on this site all the way back to Lamont_Cranston, off and on for very many years but I haven't played Mafia for 5 years and this was the last account I have ever used. I don't use my old alts but they are still like laying around apparently. :shrug:

Wow I so totally agree about RVS. I think I could learn alot from you about it. I learned about it from Mastin (studying his play).

Hold up
If this is true
Did you get special permission to play in Newbie games?

[Plotinus]

Official Vote Count 1.08

The top 12 cakes to bring to your family renuion via cakewrecks.

---

Lynching

With 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to lynch.

volxen

(2): Formerfish, the worst

the worst

(2): Hugo Stiglitz, volxen

Not Known 15

(1): Draynth

Mister Rogers

(1): Inferno390

Not Voting

(3): xx2008, Not Known 15, Mister Rogers

Deadline:

(expired on 2018-09-17 18:00:00).

Mod notes:

Keep it fun!

[Inferno390]

Okay
Now that I’ve caught up
Duck is pinging me. There is something tonally off in some of his posts that makes me think somethings up. Then again, I have a bad track record with reading Duck so far, so not sure how to look at that.
Fish is very towny. His questioning is strong, natrual progression and natrual tone, genuinely scumhunting. Classic example of town.
Roger I’m still leaning scum on. I think that he dug way too hard at xx early, and I don’t feel like he ever answered fish’s questions. I mean, obviously there are answers there, but I feel like his responses are really guarded?
What the fudge is up with NK15. Like has been said, 343 is trash, and then the whole “answer my questions or get lynched” followed by that unvote is scummy af. Not liking this enterance.
xx I have mixed feelings about. On one hand, his first posts were tonally off. On the other, the way Rogers beared down on him, combined with the fact that this is his first forum game EVER, has me wondering if it’s just a newbie being put under a lot of pressure right on enterance, especially since his tone has improved in posts since then.

[volxen]

Inferno is my strongest early read of the four. he has a meta of getting into TvT fights pretty quickly (please refer his sig) and his reaction to Rogers' posting style is very consistent with that meta. I can completely see why it was tilting to town!ferno and understood where he was coming from with his fighting back.

Rogers, I liked the early content and forcing discussion. some of his pushes kinda felt like tries rather than full on genuine reads which was initially pinging me but by the time I originally caught up I was already reading this as playstyle indicative/anti-RVS rather than necessarily scummy.

Hugo I just liked his early posting, didn't have any kind of careful tone etc. I'd look for from scum!Hugo. it's my weakest read of the 4 very obviously.

there you go you've got the tl;dr of what I was feeling several pages ago. I hope that was interesting reading. now please answer my questions and actually scumhunt.

I'd rather not be too candid about my feelings after our last game together, but if you are town please let's not have a rehash of that nonsense.

You listed

FIVE

, not three townreads. Again:

so far I think inferno xx2008 rogers and Hugo seem like town, roughly in that order.

which leaves me wondering... if this is a consular ship...where is the ambassador?

Hi Fish, and hi whoever you are now!
Nice to meet you officially. I've read a few of your games, and look forward to playing with you. I also think your slot just might be town.

And you

STILL

have provided no explanation for why you are townreading xx2008 and FormerFish. And especially since FormerFish is apparently your strongest townread out of the five, how could you forget to include him in your analysis?

for an update and context to stated townreads, I'm about here now.

conftown: {tw}

very town: {former}

still pretty town: {Mister Rogers, Inferno390}
leaning town: {Hugo, xx2008}
null: {Draynth, NK15}
leaning scum: {volxen}

also since we're in 2v7 either 6 correct townreads, or two correct scumreads, or a combination of those is enough to solve the game.

I understand the notion that it's easy for scum to town case players and challenging for scum to scumcase players. that's a big part of why my motivation in preemptive towncasing is so low:
1) it always comes across as reachy, and
2) if I'm incorrect on any townreads I'm basically handing them a guide on how to remain townread by me

realistically if both scum are in my null/scumreads, this game is quickly solved via PoE to me. if I start to townread the people in those lower brackets, then I've made an error in my townreads and need to reassess whether I've been too lazy or given too much credit to someone.

[Mister Rogers]

This account has passed muster for its first game; I was queried by the List Mod for that game. I haven't used any alt since I started using this account, so I am all good.

[Inferno390]

Okay
I was about to say, there are rules that you can’t use alts in Newbies, so I wanted to make sure you had gotten cleared by the modding team

[volxen]

for an update and context to stated townreads, I'm about here now.

conftown: {tw}
very town: {former}
still pretty town: {Mister Rogers, Inferno390}
leaning town: {Hugo, xx2008}
null: {Draynth, NK15}
leaning scum: {volxen}

also since we're in 2v7 either 6 correct townreads, or two correct scumreads, or a combination of those is enough to solve the game.

I understand the notion that it's easy for scum to town case players and challenging for scum to scumcase players. that's a big part of why my motivation in preemptive towncasing is so low:
1) it always comes across as reachy, and
2) if I'm incorrect on any townreads I'm basically handing them a guide on how to remain townread by me

realistically if both scum are in my null/scumreads, this game is quickly solved via PoE to me. if I start to townread the people in those lower brackets, then I've made an error in my townreads and need to reassess whether I've been too lazy or given too much credit to someone.

POE is fine only if you are absolutely certain that no scum slip into your townreads. I mean let’s think about this logically – what’s more dangerous, having everyone incorrectly townlock someone, or having everyone incorrectly scumlock someone? If everyone incorrectly scumlocks someone who is in fact town, then a mislynch happens, but the game can still be won by town (three mislynches are needed for the scumteam to win). If everyone incorrectly townlocks someone throughout the entire game who is in fact scum, then the game is won by the scumteam. Period.

There is nothing wrong with genuine townhunting, but logic dictates that townreads are something we have to be

VERY

careful about, as being wrong about one of your townreads can potentially have

MUCH WORSE

consequences (i.e., losing the game to the scumteam) than being wrong about one of your scumreads (i.e., mislynching a fellow townie). And what do you do? You start the game on the first two days of day 1 by townreading

FIVE

out of the nine players, which when you include yourself, means that you are saying that you are confident that you have already narrowed down the scumteam to two out of {Volxen, Draynth, NK}. That’s

extremely

bold for the first two days of day 1, and to top it off you provide absolutely no explanation of any of your reads at first. Only after being repeatedly badgered by multiple people (myself, NK, Inferno, MR, etc.) do you finally provide a minimal explanation for three out of your five townreads (Inferno, MR, and Hugo), and still provide no explanation at all for your other two townreads (xx and Fish). Do you see how that could come off as inherently anti-town, if not downright scummy? The town doesn’t win by holding back important information such as why you are townreading person X or why you are scumreading person Y. We win by sharing information (such as reads) and pressuring people when appropriate to uncover who the scum amongst us are.

But if you are in fact scum, I could see why you would take this approach to the game. Your scum motivation could be to simply set this game up as group A {TW, Fish MR, xx, Hugo, Inferno} vs group B {Volxen, Draynth, NK}. It gives you a nice townbloc right off the bat to insert yourself and your scummate into, and it gives you exactly the number of mislynches in group B that you need to win as scum: three. If you can convince all of your “townreads” that they should all see each other as town as well, then all you and your scummate have to do is mislynch one of {Volxen, Draynth, NK} from group B on day 1, day 2, and day 3, and kill whoever you want out of {TW, Fish MR, xx, Hugo, Inferno} from group A (not including yourself or your scummate, obviously) during the night phases.

[Mister Rogers]

Just passing through on a break. After reading Volx's excellent post above, I was brought to think that I would expect from Worst something like a mixture of town reads, a focus on at least one scum and with reasoning. I agree that just throwing out town reads and saying "I know this this scummy but its OK because I know its scummy", is still scummy, in the area of lazy-scum. I mean where is the burning desire to actually scum hunt?

I don't want to sound like a jerk or anything (because I seem to be really good at that apparently) but this town NEEDS a pro-active Worst to the degree that we can at least catch the hint of a town heartbeat here.

[Mister Rogers]

When I get done with work, I will be doing a full overhaul of this game and will have much more to offer.

[the worst]

@volxen, I've already spent plenty of time explaining my xx2008 read through my ISO. if you don't understand why I'm townreading Formerfish via real time interactions I can explain it later but I'd like to say this will NOT HAPPEN until I'm in front of a PC. I can't guarantee how long this will be because I'm fairly busy irl at the moment.

I hope if you're town you can see that your posting makes me think of panicking scum before worried town rn? I have reads. I hope my reads are right. My reads are liable to be subject to change. Sometimes I read people in a very specific way to evoke a particular kind of reaction out of them, based on playstyle.

so like... what part of my reads are you trying to convince me is jank? which reads of mine do you disagree with & why? do you think there's flawed logic in the reason I townread any particular slots?

what are your thoughts on NK15 so far?

[the worst]

This looks like a meta read for me, which is bad because there is no meta. Without meta, how do you know that that comfortable posting style is not just their normal style? And speedy responses are not a good reason to townread, especially not if they look strange. And without that, all what you have is...
post 181.
Now, let's assume xx is town, and made those openings.
They look like a low-hanging fruit for mafia then. Which points then at one of their first two accusers being scum. Thus it is very likely that there is at least a scum in those three.
On the same page, obviously, nothing of that prevents you being scum voted by the first two accusers, with xx being your partner. And a bus is always possible.

that's definitely not a meta read. I just like the energy xx2008 has been putting out. I think it swings towards a relaxed mindset, which is more likely at random to come from town than scum. would you mind showing me where you got the idea that this was a meta read from?

correct, I think they're low hanging fruit and the fact my main scumread entered the thread by jumping up and biting them is absolutely the way I interpret this gamestate.

so you think they're mafia rather than LHF? can you please show me where you think their posting comes from scum / doesn't come from town?

Excluding me...
Error 404.

you have no townreads?

[volxen]

@The Worst I’m fine with NK’s entrance in 343, as he and I obviously agree on the point that you needed to elaborate on your reads.

I didn’t like that in 351, he just very briefly says that he thinks that Hugo/xx/Volxen contains at least one scum without really elaborating on why our interactions couldn’t possibly be town-town-town.

He brings up a fair point 353, which was again about the fact that you hadn’t explained any of your reads.

In 354, he was a a bit brazen and over the top, but not necessarily scummy. Here he says “You are at L-1. Answer the question or get lynched.” Obviously, this is not a correct statement as no one had indicated any intention of hammering you, and even if you didn’t respond to him you wouldn’t have necessarily been lynched. So it was a false statement on his part to essentially give you an ultimatum of either 1) answering his question or 2) getting lynched. It was extremely aggressive by NK, but I’m also not convinced its strongly AI either way. It could just be extreme aggression by town to provoke a response.

I think 356 was fair enough. You told him he should be scumhunting, and he points out that’s exactly what he is doing by questioning you.

Now 359 is odd. He unvotes you and gives the reason that he doesn’t want the day to end with a TW lynch yet. Why is he assuming here that you would be lynched if he kept his vote on you? You were at L-1 before NK unvoted you. I think everyone here understands what L-1 is, and the fact that it would be extremely scummy to quickhammer someone at L-1 before they have a chance to respond/claim and said person would almost certainly be lynched day 2 if that happened. Even in a newbie game, everyone understands this.

So if his reasoning is that he needed to unvote you because he is paranoid that a newbie is going to come along and quickhammer you, I would find that reasoning for unvoting completely faulty and suspect. If he truly suspects that you could be on the scumteam, then he should keep his vote on you and keep the pressure on you, instead of worrying that someone is going to come along and quickhammer you. Afterall, keeping you at L-1 may force you to roleclaim, and it makes sense to push this if you are truly his top scumread.

So while I like his questioning of you, I really don’t like his reason for unvoting you (that someone might quickhammer you).

Overall, he is just null for me at the moment. There are things that I like in his gameplay so far (e.g., questioning you), and things that I don’t like (e.g., the shoddy reason for unvoting you).

[the worst]

it's kinda vexing me because statistically at least one townie here thinks I'm scummy. but I have enough of an ego to think that at least one scumbutt is pushing me as well. if I had to pick one person who's treatment of my slot has been the least natural (most likely to come from scum) it'd be NK15's.

the flip side of this is the last time we played together he faked a guilty on an unclaimed, but obviously town, mason. so he's not a player I can read to save myself, I always come out at a net scumread.

[Mister Rogers]

Zipping through here on lunch, I need to say the following:

Please Former, provide your full read on Worst's slot. Thank you.

[Inferno390]

It’s lunch time in the Land of Make Believe?
Where exactly is this place?

[Mister Rogers]

Virtual Work Sir.

[the worst]

guess somewhere in the pacific

[xx2008]

I have to say, I'm getting a better feeling about Mister Rogers now. I'm getting a little suspicious of NK15 for his threat on the worst. He is trying to get the worst to be under pressure by saying he is at L-1 right at the start, which I do not have a very good feeling for. He isn't really making a threat either. He's unable to vote and have a lynch because he already voted. Unless he has a scum partner ready to cast that final vote, it won't be a lynch. More likely, his scum partner has already voted, because having someone else cast the final vote would be too obvious that he has a scum partner. My current scumreads are NK15 and volx.

[Hugo Stiglitz]

The town doesn’t win by holding back important information such as why you are townreading person X or why you are scumreading person Y. We win by sharing information (such as reads) and pressuring people when appropriate to uncover who the scum amongst us are.

i just want to say this is exactly what TW did in our last game, where TW was scum.
they kept saying "oh yeah i have some information but i'm going to share it later" and never followed through.
it REALLY bugged me because it was EVERY day from this player.
i also don't like the way the pressure from the slot easily slid off. i think if tw flips scum to look more closely into those unvotes to find their partner.

[Mister Rogers]

Ok, Hugo this is groundbreaking information. Please provide the exact meta link. If this pans out, I think that we should very well lynch.

[Mister Rogers]

This is what I am talking about! A town that flipping well cooperates!

[the worst]

@Hugo what do you feel I'm holding back here? sometimes if stuff is tricky to express I'll wait til I'm behind a keyboard, otherwise I think I've been a thousand times more forthcoming in this game.

[the worst]

same @MR. if you all don't feel my play is up to scratch engage with me about what you guys want?