Newbie 1888 | Stuff I Found Online IV | Over

[Inferno390]

377, so after

But this brings up the question, why are you pushing Duck so hard if you’re not even fully caught up?

[Mister Rogers]

Yo Hugo how do you feel about volxen/MR?

Weird..not sure if they are the scum duo, as it might be a bit obvious, but gg if they are lol.

I think there is some pocketing going around, and I was trying to give MR playstyle a chance but I think it's a bit strange that hes kind of pinging people to get a town bloc going.

Look, I believe in the power of reads. If we can get good reads and act on them successfully, we can blow the game open and win. Its kind of like a drug I guess. Once you read scum and lynch them over and over, its like something you want to do every time. I am very confident in my town reads of yourself & Volx. You three, so far, are the only ones that I have that level of positive read on.

I personally am giving XX & Inf a townread as well but I don't nearly have the confidence level on XX (they just didn't act as scum when they pushed me and read as innocent town overall) and I mainly base my town read of Inf on the fact that is scum really going to get all game state offended and go all "SE Sheriff" and everything like that?

I guess I am not going to convince you of the power of a town block Hugo but seriously, its the way that town wins games, you know?

Since I have a strong town read on you, lets work together nonetheless. Who is your strongest town read in this game and who is the strongest scum?

[Plotinus]

Official Vote Count 1.11

How Animals in Zoos are Trained is an interesting article about what sorts of things zoo animals are trained to do, why, and how. The cheetah in the picture is being rewarded with hot chicken broth for participating in training.

---

Lynching

With 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to lynch.

volxen

(2): Formerfish, the worst

the worst

(2): volxen, Mister Rogers

Not Known 15

(1): Draynth

Mister Rogers

(1): Inferno390

Not Voting

(3): xx2008, Hugo Stiglitz, Not Known 15

Deadline:

(expired on 2018-09-17 18:00:00).

Mod notes:

Keep it fun!

[Mister Rogers]

377, so after

But this brings up the question, why are you pushing Duck so hard if you’re not even fully caught up?

Dewd, like awesome question. If you read the small group of posts right when I vote you can tell I am quite frustrated because I just read the massive and copious amounts of drek-posting that Worst had done and it pinged my radar so many times and so badly that I LITERALLY couldn't take it anymore. In addition, I had of course already read the duck current posts in real-time flow and I knew that he hadn't done anything different up to THAT point.

Just to make it clear, I mean, this is how I process the game: 1 sweep in real-time and one processed in notes. That's what keeps me sane and from making massive mistakes based on gut in the real-time flow, you know?

[Mister Rogers]

Hey just for public consumption (I'm having a large snack before hitting the bricks) I FLIPPING WISH VOLX WAS SCUM HERE! I mean OMGOSH, how much easier this dang game would be if that was the case!

No instead we have to deal with two top players in PoE who know the subtleties of this process like the back of their hand, they literally know every weakness and exploit them on an instinctive level.

[Inferno390]

Two top players?
Who’s the other one?

And that’s a really strong statement to be making.

[Mister Rogers]

Well I am not sure what exactly you mean by "strong statement" but I am talking about Worst and Former. These guys are STRONG, VETERAN players. We have to be strong and coordinated town to take them down, otherwise (if they are both scum) they will rip us apart.

See my current PoE list is: [Worst,Former,Dray,NK15]

Unfortunately I have recently discovered (from Worst of course) that NK15 is going to be like impossible to properly read. I hope he is simply lying or exaggerating here...

I haven't brought the full case against Worst yet (with quotes/logic a-plenty) but its really simple, I mean both Volx & NK-15 get it -- when lazy scum don't want to work in the thread and just want to coast, they start making excuses about [insert whatever they feel like using here]; the higher skill level/experience of the player, the more eggregious this behavior is.

Now, if you try and WIFOM it and say ya but if he was scum he wouldn't do that, ya but just like evolution and survival of the fittest, he knows that he can simply skate and flaunt it from his armchair while town paranoia scatters the forces uniting against him. He is basically saying that we suck as town and can't marshall our forces to make him work as scum.

Regardless of what you think of my stream of consciousness there, Worst is skating lazy scum. His main goal is to hit end of D1, doing the least amount possible. So far we have done a good job and definitely have his attention. Let's not let him slip away.

[Inferno390]

Okay
So while I can agre with you tha t former and Duck are probably the vets here, I’m finding 545 (“They literally know every weakness and eploit them on a n instinctive level”) a huge exaggeration. I have play against scum!Duck. Yes, he’s great as scum. Does he do that? No.
And the idea that Duck is being lazy or skating is not true. He’s had some fine posts. Now I am conflicted on him based on some early tone stuff. But this? This looks like scum trying to sell a mislynch.

[Mister Rogers]

I am talking about actual work here, trying to find scum. Churning out stream of consciousness posts based on whatever is going on in the moment is not scum hunting! In order to lynch scum we have to WORK, HARD. He isn't doing that. Has his town gotten better now that town is focused on him? Sure but I mean eventually I am going to be quoting the WALL of all his drek posting before that.

I mean you know its scummy to throw out only town reads, right? Because the scum know who all the town are and nobody will fight them on accurately being called town, right?

Read that ISO and try to find someone who is actually scum hunting and not just trying to be popular and "relevant in the moment". All I found was skating scum.

Look so far, I think you are town and I hope I am right aboiut your pants on head style here, so who is your number one town/scum read?

[Mister Rogers]

One last thing before I hit the bricks. I forgot about the examples of their strength. Let me show you how strong Former is: (post incoming)

[volxen]

It's very interesting that TW criticizes my read of MR, when he literally greeted Fish into the game with a defacto townread of him in 184:

Hi Fish, and hi whoever you are now!
Nice to meet you officially. I've read a few of your games, and look forward to playing with you.

I also think your slot just might be town

.

This was before Fish even made a single post in the game. This was Fish's first post in 185:

Hello everyone.

Hi worst. Did you read games of mine for me specifically, or just happen to catch ones I was in? Which ones did you look at?

Then, TW tries to make the argument that the fact that IV (InnocentVillager) replaced out makes Fish's slot more likely to be town in 272:

Story is basically about these 2 guys. 1 guy insults the other in a way where the insulted guys only response is to wall the 1st guy behind a part of a sewer. The reason its talked about is because they never explain what was said for the insult, they just imply that it was serious enough for the response.

In reference to here, what i am trying to say is that there must be a reason for IV to have wanted to replace out. He obviously didnt want this thread to turn into a toxic mess based off of a past game. Is it AI, no. Can it speak to a possible motivation, yeah, i think so.

ah, I did a fairly heavy meta dive on his tendencies around replacing and conflicting playstyles the other day. I'm not one to townlock virtually ever but replacing is a pretty high drama play. people tend to let a lot about themselves slip around it. since we're allowed to be bastards and discuss replacements on MS.net I do, when I feel it's necessary.

So he literally gives Fish a defacto townread right off the bat, because IV was dramatic and perhaps has replaced out as town in the past? That's a horrible reason to townread (and clear) a slot. Especially when IV made it perfectly clear multiple times that he was replacing out for one reason: because of a personal conflict with MR. He simply did not want to play in a game with MR. There was absolutely nothing alignment indicative in the way IV replaced out in this game.

Here is an example post where IV made that perfectly clear in 124:

also: I frankly have very little respect for replacing out for virtually no reason.

if this is a sub jab at me id like to remind you that i clearly stated my reason and you have not played with this person before. im reasonably certain, given how defensive MR is being about his playstyle, that i would not be having fun in this game and would probably replace out eventually anyway (when it's far more detrimental to have a player change), so I think im doing a service to everyone by replacing out 5 pages in which again is actually only a few hours into the game. i will pray for you guys that MR does not become insufferable this game but like I said it's clearly "+EV" for me to replace out now.

TW's defacto townread of Fish's slot in 184 is completely phony and made up.

And then conveniently, Fish ends up being his strongest townread in 349. The whole thing looks pre-planned, like TW planned to make Fish his strongest townread from the moment he entered the game:

for an update and context to stated townreads, I'm about here now.

conftown: {tw}

very town: {former}

still pretty town: {Mister Rogers, Inferno390}
leaning town: {Hugo, xx2008}
null: {Draynth, NK15}
leaning scum: {volxen}

also since we're in 2v7 either 6 correct townreads, or two correct scumreads, or a combination of those is enough to solve the game.

I understand the notion that it's easy for scum to town case players and challenging for scum to scumcase players. that's a big part of why my motivation in preemptive towncasing is so low:
1) it always comes across as reachy, and
2) if I'm incorrect on any townreads I'm basically handing them a guide on how to remain townread by me

realistically if both scum are in my null/scumreads, this game is quickly solved via PoE to me. if I start to townread the people in those lower brackets, then I've made an error in my townreads and need to reassess whether I've been too lazy or given too much credit to someone.

[Mister Rogers]

PEDIT: Continued from the post before, speaking first to Inf...

Page 6:

VOTE: the worst
He's my twin and one twin is always evil

So Worst, mind explaining what this is all about?

Why are you asking worst to explain a post made by Dray?

I am going to start calling you out on nitpickng without putting in any conscious thought from here on out. I clearly wanted:

1) To verify Dray's veracity
2) To test Worst's willingness to disclose their relationship and the details thereof
3) To notate what this relationship consists of for further reads on their slots

Pardon me if your questioning here is sincere because I am getting the feeling that it may not be?

I needed to figure out why you were asking player b to answer for player a while you are querying people who defend others against you. Also, worth pointing out that

Infer defended both hugo and XX, they all 3 cant be scum

. Just saying.

Not every question I ask is going to be the one that breaks through anything, but i never know what connections I will make based off answers unless I ask. If time allows I can explain that last part more. Just think of me as a 7-11, it might not always be doing business but they are always open.

Now, somebody who fakes a catchup simply does NOT get that far into my head where they are thinking the thoughts that I am and posting them. I mean the level of comprehension is INTENSE to get inside my head like that. NOW, think about this level of intensity if Former is scum!

I guarantee you that Worst has the same skills! Oh I guarantee you!! The only thing is, he has low key down to an art so (just like he has said in this thread) its actually hard to pin it down (but I can).

Both these guys are DANGEROUS.. Just saying.

[Hugo Stiglitz]

Hugo
What do you think about the current 1v1 between Duck and Rogers?
Is it SvT? Is it TvT? Is it be SvS?

I don't want it to be SvS, but I want to say there has been a SvS argument already. I can dig thru the thread when i'm off work to put my finger on where I felt it after work

[Not Known 15]

Ok. After some sleep and time I was ready to look at the worst with a distant eye.

NK15 do you have any game relevant thoughts?

now please answer my questions and actually scumhunt.

The worst is experienced enough that this should not come from town. It is, however, something that could come from scum.
This is shading my interactions and pressure of them as not scumhunting.
A town should realize that it is scumhunting, and would not phrase it this way(at least experienced town would).
This comes from scum.
And the townread for this replaceout is strange, and fits this theory(although it is a low confidence scumtell).

Excluding me...
Error 404.

you have no townreads?

If they really say that they know my meta then this should not confuse them at all. I rarely have strong townreads, and definitely not on Day 1.

VOTE: the worst


Also, to answer a previous question,
this post: 181
has many valid points.
It was said that XX is low-hanging fruit.
Well, looking easily lynchable does not mean that the player is actually town.
The more I look at this the more I see this: volxen might be the one who jumped on the existing case. But their reasoning is sound enough. Not every agreement from one player to another is scum pocketing. And this does really look like a second case that comes to the same conclusion.

[Mister Rogers]

Inferno is my strongest early read of the four. he has a meta of getting into TvT fights pretty quickly (please refer his sig) and his reaction to Rogers' posting style is very consistent with that meta. I can completely see why it was tilting to town!ferno and understood where he was coming from with his fighting back.

Rogers, I liked the early content and forcing discussion. some of his pushes kinda felt like tries rather than full on genuine reads which was initially pinging me but by the time I originally caught up I was already reading this as playstyle indicative/anti-RVS rather than necessarily scummy.

Hugo I just liked his early posting, didn't have any kind of careful tone etc. I'd look for from scum!Hugo. it's my weakest read of the 4 very obviously.

there you go you've got the tl;dr of what I was feeling several pages ago. I hope that was interesting reading. now please answer my questions and actually scumhunt.

I'd rather not be too candid about my feelings after our last game together, but if you are town please let's not have a rehash of that nonsense.

Now, I am quoting this as an example and so everyone understands why I say that throwing out 5 townreads is +SCUM. Notice how he is able to call everyone on his read list a townie and how EASY it is to provide the reasons -- does anyone on this list feel offended by beiong called town and our play described out? And now he gets to say that he has "actually scumhunted". Keep in mind elsewhere that he has blamed having townreads for not voting!! This is scum utr (under the radar) play. This is inexcusable for someone like Worst.

[Hugo Stiglitz]

clipped long post

I don't like this at all
Plus I don't think tw is acting like his scum meta of the last game just yet either. We have like10 more irl days for this duck to get to a computer n deliver

[Mister Rogers]

He is not helping us catch scum! Its because he are one!!!!!

[Mister Rogers]

clipped long post

I don't like this at all
Plus I don't think tw is acting like his scum meta of the last game just yet either. We have like10 more irl days for this duck to get to a computer n deliver

Look, I agree (on time left, not rushing etc) but srsly, what is it gonna take for him to start townposting (I no longer think he is). I mean don't get me wrong, this game gets like whey easier if he is town and begins actually helping us find scum.

Now, I guess you have your own meta reasons/reads, so I will leave you to them but as of right now I don't think duck should see the night.

I want to work with you about this and I am willing to listen. I am counting on you, sir!

[Not Known 15]

The reason for voting the worst to L-1 and then unvoting for fear of an early hammer:
the worst didnt cooperate under lower pressure. The only did after intense pressure. There was no other remedy than L-1. The day was a bit early for a hammer, though. I didn't want a hammer yet, but then again- if the worst had continued to refuse then there would not have been any better remedy but the lynch(after intent, of course).

[Mister Rogers]

Right we have a specific request not to hammer here so the only action open to us until Hugo comes back and such is to EXPRESS INTENT -- basically say "I am going to hammer you". I don't think Duck should claim until Hugo comes back, since we aren't ready to hammer yet. I think Hugo is town and I think we should wait for more input from him?

[xx2008]

NK15, you seem scum. You voted duck and told him to answer your question or be lynched. You couldn't actually hammer because you already voted. If you had a scum partner that didn't vote yet, that would be the only way for a real threat. Otherwise, people won't hammer.

[xx2008]

Right we have a specific request not to hammer here so the only action open to us until Hugo comes back and such is to EXPRESS INTENT -- basically say "I am going to hammer you". I don't think Duck should claim until Hugo comes back, since we aren't ready to hammer yet. I think Hugo is town and I think we should wait for more input from him?

Adding up the votes, we have you, volx, and NK15 against TW. If Hugo wants to vote TW, then that's 4 votes. Who is the 5th one? can't hammer without a 5th vote.

[Mister Rogers]

Remember this post from him:

The town doesn’t win by holding back important information such as why you are townreading person X or why you are scumreading person Y. We win by sharing information (such as reads) and pressuring people when appropriate to uncover who the scum amongst us are.

i just want to say this is exactly what TW did in our last game, where TW was scum.
they kept saying "oh yeah i have some information but i'm going to share it later" and never followed through.
it REALLY bugged me because it was EVERY day from this player.
i also don't like the way the pressure from the slot easily slid off. i think if tw flips scum to look more closely into those unvotes to find their partner.

[xx2008]

Although TW seems somewhat scummy, he isn't scummy enough for me to hammer or vote for him just yet, so I won't be hammmering.

[Mister Rogers]

Ok well as long as we are safe and not accidentally hammering.