Newbie 1888 | Stuff I Found Online IV | Over

[the worst]

Ok my apologies to the thread. I just got done with this post in my notes. Here clearly TW has done what is requested. It is a simple fact. I know TW has the natural ability to force me to doubt my t/r's (specifically Volx here)

and after my re-read of Volx this morning, I am locked in on him being town

(i.e. I will not change today for any reason). I strayed away from discussion of this with TW which is my fault.

Ok, I don't think there is any more danger of a skating TW anymore.

I believe we have identified at least two scum suspects in Volx, NK15

. I am proposing a

compromise lynch

here on NK15. Multiple people have made the case as can I, all with our own personal nuances.

Heck I guess we will find scum somewhere in [Volx, Worst, Former] (in no particular order)

. I mean the game is jammed around these 3 people it seems like. :shrug:

I think a daytime cleansing and a night generation would be good for us?

I will simply not lynch Volx today period end of story. Unless something else happens in this thread, I am locked in here.

How does this progression(bold emphasis added) make any fucking sense?
VOTE: Mister Rogers

OH MY GOD
+5 town points to NK15, I didn't expect us to hivemind that hard on this.

tbh I was gonna point out lynching you today is a bad "policy lynch" and has nothing to do with winning town the game. no one has made an effort to actually sort you yet, which is definitely difficult because you haven't been in the game yet but like

lynching you would literally do nothing except remove your slot from the game.

no info to be gleaned in the event you flip town, and it's literally nothing more than a 25% shot in the dark fmpov

but yeah also you can move up in my reads just a little

[the worst]

I townread Volx, Hugo (townblock) as well as XX, Inf (minimal town reads) which created a PoE list of [Worst, Former, Dray, NK15 (just ur slot tho)]. I started watching Worst for his gamestate post to determine if I could townread him or at least have some way of not believing that he could be scum enough for lynch today; he is a high importance slot due to vet status. Just as I did this, literally in real-time both FF and Worst chain voted Volx. So I voted Worst and it was a Mexican Standoff and we started talking and such about this.

I'd put Hugo at my second strongest townread off the top of my head, yet I'm very far from using the language "townblock". what is convincing you that there's absolutely no world where either Volxen or Hugo are scum without a cop clear? Hugo's posting in particular is not difficult for scum to fake. I'm genuinely really interested in your reasoning here.

[the worst]

Well

this is a good post. it sums up where I'm getting to but doesn't feel too regurgitated. (sorry for the nigh useless post I wanna find this when I ctrl+f in my iso later)

[Mister Rogers]

Look I can't apologize. My PoE is [Worst,FF,Dray,NK15]. Its not a backpedal. I mean unless there is something terribly wrong, town doesn't lynch a strong player D1. I'm not going to sit there and pursue a case that doesn't exist just for the sake of "consistency" (i.e. not backpedaling). You are naming scum suspects you are helping the town. You are on record with your scum and town reads. I am not pursuing your lynch today. That's it. I can't very well try to push a case on Dray, whose posting looks pretty good even though there is a little of it. Only Paranoia and that little action towards Volx makes me think FF isn't town and besides he is also a strong player but I must say that he really hasn't done much with reads and he said he would be back today, which didn't happen. Maybe we could force him to make a game read, I mean that might make sense. After that, I only see NK15. I mean sorry but it is what it is.

[Mister Rogers]

I try and lock the game as soon as possible. Its how I play. Obviously nobody is Conf-town and we obviously down't have the "mutual trust" = "townblock" yet but I try -- I want to break the game and it IS breakable on D1, it simply is.

[the worst]

my bad for the multiposting guys, that was a lit couple of pages whooo

in my experience:
1) pushing reads with very little reasoning under a weak guise (e.g. not being totally caught up) is a scum motivated behaviour.
2) refusing to engage with reads which you aren't absolutely certain on (you should very rarely be absolutely certain on reads as town) is a scum motivated behaviour; it positions slots to be shaded and does not support actual sorting of players.
3) "compromise lynches" are scum motivated. creating a dichotomy of 3 players which you believe contains 1+ scum and then compromising outside of that dichotomy is never town motivated.

MR has flatly refused to engage with me in a manner which allows me to be sorted. he's only engaged with me on very low interest subjects and has basically backed down on anything substantial (his casing on me is nonsensical tunneling. His lock town read on volxen is clearly either fabricated or overblown and his refusal to elaborate on it swings me back to the former.

his posting and the angles he's pushing are accomplishing nothing except trying to force a square peg gamestate into the round hole of his reads.

I'm not the type of player to jump in here and scream "ay everyone sheep me for an easy win" because that's not something I can consistently deliver. But here's how I'm seeing things, and I welcome anyone to swing in and talk to me about it.

we are not lynching a strong stable voice today {Formerfish}
we are not lynching high town equity slots today {Inferno, Hugo}
we are not compromise lynching today {NK15, Draynth}

if this leave as dichotomy of {me, MR, xx2008, volxen} for today, my take is very easy.

[Mister Rogers]

So that's it he is unwilliong to compromise folks. This is what we are dealing with. You see it for yourselves.

We have opposing game views and he is unable to compromise. It would have been better to go to night and try and solve this problem but apprently he doesn't want that to happen. LOL that XX is on his PoE list. It makes ZERO sense that he puts himself in the list AFTER like Dray etc. We can all see that this list is TERRIBAD with Volx and XX in in it. So if you choose me, that is a vote for XX and Volx. If you choose Worst, its a vote for FF,Dray,DK15 -- so which looks better to you?

There is NO WAY I am lynching XX or Volx today and any list that has those options in it is from scum. Not to mention that he was unwilling to compromise with a vote that we all know is scummy, NK15.

Vote Worst

[the worst]

I'm not the type of player to jump in here and scream "ay everyone sheep me for an easy win" because that's not something I can consistently deliver. But here's how I'm seeing things, and I welcome anyone to swing in and talk to me about it.

if I'm wrong I'm begging you to show me that I'm wrong. all you're doing is resuming a comical, highly rhetorical tunnel which is what I was just describing as a scum motivated behaviour.

so yeah it feels like you're caught and flailing. if I'm wrong show me I'm wrong.

I'm so totally comfortable if you want to resume this mindless 1v1 because I don't feel that you're handling me the way town handles slots. even if I'm designated today's lynch, I trust this list to powerlynch you tomorrow and your buddy d3 so... If that's your angle, bring it. :/

[the worst]

Vote Worst

also this isn't a valid vote-- remember the colon after vote, or use VOTE: tags.

[Mister Rogers]

LOL I don't have a buddy but you already knew that. I don't need to push your case, you already did with your scumtastic lynch list.

Vote: Worst

There are players in this game that have a head on their shoulders and I hope there are enough of them. We may still be able to avoid this and go NK15. I am telling you its the best option if Worst-ME is TvT instead of SvT.

[the worst]

There is NO WAY I am lynching XX or Volx today and any list that has those options in it is from scum. Not to mention that he was unwilling to compromise with a vote that we all know is scummy, NK15.

so moments ago you admitted you felt the same way that I did; that NK15 is a difficult read in that he reads scummy even as town.

your language wrt "compromise lynch" etc. did not suggest to me that you're actually scumreading this slot, just that the game is more solvable with NK15 removed (which isn't totally untrue, but it's also true for any slot).

NK15's posting here is just a tiny tiny bit town indicative for him, imo. so I'm gonna propose two questions to you:

d1 : lynch NK15. NK15 flips town.
n1 : an obvious townie dies
d2 : how is the gamestate improved?

d1 : lynch NK15. NK15 flips scum.
n1 : an obvious townie dies
d2 : who is the partner?

now situation 2 is obviously nigh impossible..... which brings me back to my point before. unless someone is genuinely unreadable, there is no value in a "policy lynch" (lynching them to improve town's chance of winning irrespective of their alignment) compared with lynching to hit scum.

if you think he's likely to be scum or can answer either of these questions with some confidence, I'd be happy to reconsider my boycott of a policy lynch. (just reconsider, mind)

[the worst]

btw those two situations are basically assuming we blindly shoot in the dark when policy lynching. I actually think that's not totally true anyway, cause NK15 is just a liiiiiiittle towny.

[Mister Rogers]

But look at that lynch list: XX,Volx is that how Worst town plays? I mean seriously that's baaaad.

PEDIT: Look you know as well as I do he will read as scum by default, there is no way around it.

See what you fail to mention is that our town gets a chance to use their powers! WHY DIDN'T YOU MENTION THAT!?

[the worst]

they always get a chance to use powers lol. I'd prefer to promote good dayplay than insist on following power roles (which may be shit, may be excellent, and may just play badly). relying on night actions is an awful way for town to win any balanced setup and every iteration of this setup is like, loosely balanced.

your first pedit isn't really related to lynching scum d1. can you please review my commentary on achieving a good policy lynch and see if you're pickin' up what I'm puttin' down?

[Mister Rogers]

No i'm saying we avoid unnecessary townie bloodshed on slots that aren't actually scummy -- I mean omgosh how can you be town though with XX and Volx in your POE list, I mean seriously!

See I LIKE NIGHT because I know that we get the chance to clear this blockade that we are having. But no, you want to burn useful slots PRIOR to slots that are obvscum before town can act at night too. This is like whey scummy. Anyone that understands this game can see you are seriously trying to give the scum the most advantage possible -- lynching someone that they would normally have to NK.

I OFFERED A COMPROMISE THAT WOULD ALLOW TOWN TO AVOID NEEDLESS BLOOSHED.

But no, Worst has to come back with a POE list of Volx and XX.

Dewd are like joking or are you obvscum?

[Mister Rogers]

Everyone knows NK15 is scummy here and is the best vote for town.

[Mister Rogers]

And why doesn't Worst see it? That's the question...

[the worst]

I came back with my read on the gamestate and suggestion of where we should be looking for a lynch. I also outlined my reasons as to why. If you think I'm openwolfing, throw me reasons why and talk through this stuff. I'm not going to accept that you think I'm openwolfing (t/n; really obviously siding with scum ITT) when you won't have a conversation about why you think my lynch suggestions are flawed.

ftr, I very obviously don't suggest lynching xx2008 or volxen either today I don't think. just a profile for the type of flip which I think we need to progress the game.

NK15 is actually not being scummy. particularly within the scope of NK15 play, he's feeling like town. you're taking exception to his posting style which I can relate to (I've pushed for his mislynch two games in a row prior to this game, and I think I have a slight idea of how to avoid doing it again right away).

could he be scum? yeah
does he have high scum equity? no
ergo if he flips town are we in a good place? => we have as much info as d1 excepting night actions
even if he flips scum are we in a good place? => sure, but I have absolutely no idea where to start looking for his partner


if you totally disagree with this please, once again, have a look at my commentary around how decent policy lynches work and engage with me.

[the worst]

like if he was posting gifs of bananas every 12 hours to prod-dodge, any townie has a blind 25% chance of hitting scum by lynching him simply because he's not their own slot (allowing for the fact they themselves are town, 2/8 of other players are).
he has been posting. he's not been scummy and for NK15 standards I actually think he's got a bit of town equity.

[Mister Rogers]

Dang I just realized what Worst did. I gave him slack for providing a town game after like pulling teeth and his response? Backstab me AND the town. Not lynching NK15 backstabs the town because it allows the lynch of a functional slot that is not obvscum to be eliminated without scum having to use their NK. I mean sure Worst is right that eventually it MIGHT come that after we lynch NK15 but he has already stated it WILL come to that which is LOGIC-FAIL because he didn't factor in the town night actions that MIGHT resolve our problems. Scum think that way.

PEDIT: LOL DID YOU JUST SAY THAT WE LYNCH TO "ADVANCE THE GAME"??? We have an obvscum slot. Just you suggesting this is scummy.

Lynching for "information" is terribad!

This whole argument about "we won't know his partner" is like totally defeatist and so like Worst is seeing into the future? This is not from town.

[the worst]

this is the most blatant flailing I've seen in my mafia career. I'm going to let others check in, because you are no longer reading my posts and are resorting to flinging mud and hoping some of it will stick.

if you'd like to have a straightforward, calm, mature conversation let me know and i'll rephrase my stance so that you can lay down what you're seeing.

[Mister Rogers]

Gosh this is so obvious and the only reason people listen to him is because he has that cute fuzzy yellow avi and everybody just doesn't care about the black eye!

Ok good people can read and they can see what you are doing. I will quit too. And ya I FLAIL my arms in the air saying what you are doing is not from town!

[Mister Rogers]

Sorry I have to make one more post:

If you want the TRUE Mafia theory about obscum slots, it is that we lynch them EARLY because they will NEVER be NK'ed and the town PR's have better things to do than worry about an obvscum player. So if you want to "advance the game", that is the actual theory about it.

[the worst]

correct but he is not obvscum or I would be handling him very differently

he's lynchbait (lynchable but hasn't produced a lot of strong alignment-indicative content).
the AI content he's provided also pings me as towny

i'm not seeing what you're seeing here. if you disagree and think he actually has scum equity, please please please talk to me about what you're seeing in his posting which is scum indicative.
if you think he makes a good policy lynch, please convince me on why he's a good policy lynch.

[Formerfish]

Both of you need to stop posting for a little bit
Go take a walk, smoke em if you got em, but seriously both of you shut up.