Newbie 1889: Ice Cream (Game Over)

[Thor665]

Nope you're right Thor, I'm wrong.

Your joke ducks and weave make you feel like an oily fish.
Why do you town read Vloxin?

[RCEnigma]

Please don’t misinterpret my question, Thor. I’m all about aggressively putting pressure on someone when it is warranted. But who do I want to lynch right now? No one yet, as there is not enough content in this game yet, in my opinion, to develop a solid scumread (or townread for that matter) on anyone.

I think you also read quite a lot into my question. I was legitimately asking you, in essence, if RC is a serious scumread for you, and if your vote for him was serious. You seem very eager to put pressure on him for what may have simply been a non-serious RVS joke vote for Reundo. I also disagree that a vote can’t be RVS, or at least non-serious. My vote for NotNova, for example, was a completely non-serious joke vote.

At this point I want to simply start gathering as much information as possible and get reads on people and understand their motivations. But in order to do that, the game needs more content. Once I start developing some reads, I will be more than happy to start pressuring my scumread(s).

But by all means, we can dig deeper into RC’s motivation behind his vote. I’m certainly not going to try and stop you from seeing how RC responds to your pressure, but I did want you to clarify why you are pressuring him.

RC, are you seriously scumreading Reundo, or is your vote for him completely non-serious? Were you serious when you said that it would be worth it to take a gambit and lynch Reundo on the basis that he is too dangerous to keep alive if he is in fact scum based on the quality of his town game?

I think Volxens resolve to stick to his game philosophy was kind of townie, it's akin to the way Thor presented his "unvoters are scummy" statement to Xwing. I also feel Volxen handled that better than Xwing did. I also like the way this interaction played out. Not necessarily that he soft defended me but pointed out non indicative behavior is just that and was still on board for Thor to continue pressuring me as opposed to cutting it off by simply calling Thor wrong and hard defending or joining the lynch. It is a town mindset to determine motivations, which is the way Volxen's questioning of Thor felt to me.

[RCEnigma]

Then I'm an oily fish.

[Thor665]

How did you consider that he stuck to his game philosophy?
He asked me why I was doing what I was doing, I told him, he said 'carry on then'.
Did someone challenge him on his stance of "I'm not taking a stance I'm asking a question"?

PEdit - you are - or you aggressively like to misrep, and if you're town you really need to work on that.

[Thor665]

I mean, I'll admit, I'm starting to double check literally everything you say because I don't trust you to present factual reports of what happened.
Usually I just double check things when I disagree whole heartedly.
But you Vloxen case I was like 'that sounds reasonable, but now I need to ISO Vloxen to see if it makes sense and ask follow ups".

[RCEnigma]

I mean I already posted what I thought around your vote now statement and how that tied into my read but I'm wrong so the read is probably wrong.

[xwing]

Do you find them scummier than Volxen?
If not - do you find Nova objectionable for attacking him?

And to answer your head into wall - you quoted me answering your question (and asking you a question you didn't answer) and then acted like I hadn't answered the question.
This concerns me.
Are you skimming the game or do you not understand all the words I'm using? Is there another possible explanation I'm missing?

1. no, but their lurking or inactivity is something im noting..
2. no, i dont find it objectionable..

the question i was asking simply required a yes or a no..i took your answer was "yes" (implying you answered the question), which i was confirming with you (to check if i got it right)..so was it right or not? [yes or no--dont add anything else thanks..]

sorry i missed your question, but yes, i am skimming your posts..

i dunno if it's your way with words or play style, but it's frustrating me to the point that i'd rather not interact with you unless you have something to ask or inquire (for town to read/assess)..

[xwing]

Eh you answered Why you were on the wagon and your process there. It's OK I guess. I'm interested though, what about Voyagers no vote struck you as scummy? Would you agree with Thor that it's scum playing poorly on town playing poorly?

I also find it interesting that no one has entertained a TvS possibility in the interactions between myself/Thor/Reundo with the exception of Thor.

dont laugh at my noob answer (at least not to my face lol)..
1. it caught my attention coz his vote was formatted wrongly, so the mod won't really count it as a real vote..
2. but he still put a name in there (thor) and unvoted..so he's "pushing" for him, but not really (unvote)..struck me as odd..

might just be nothing..

i dont agree nor disagree about not voting being good or bad per se..
i agree however that we should vote for whoever we think is scum..

im contemplating on a TvS possibility on your trio..but so far even if i dont get thor im leaning town on the 3 of you still..
but if i were to choose who i think is most scum among the trio, i'd think it's thor..coz of his way with words..he'll probably question and ask me to explain why but i'd rather ignore him..

[Thor665]

@Xwing - how do you see ignoring my slot to help you win the game?

[RCEnigma]

im contemplating on a TvS possibility on your trio..but so far even if i dont get thor im leaning town on the 3 of you still..
but if i were to choose who i think is most scum among the trio, i'd think it's thor..coz of his way with words..he'll probably question and ask me to explain why but i'd rather ignore him.

I'm actually inclined to believe Thor is town with his fingers in his ears. I think Reundo had the most to gain an scum on our three way situation by defending me but we are on similar pages.

What I was getting at was that no one outside of the three is really framing it as at least one scum on the mix. It points towards those that haven't given their thoughts on the matter since scum is more inclined to point things like that out.

[MarioManiac4]

Replacing StandingWind.

Prodding horrordude0215, they have (expired on 2018-09-13 02:08:54) to post or they will be replaced.

[MarioManiac4]

Votecount 1.4

Thor665 (2) - horrordude0215, Reundo
NotNova (1) - volxen
RCEnigma (1) - Thor665
volxen (1) - NotNova

Not Voting (4) - RCEnigma, StandingWind, UC Voyager, xwing

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2018-09-18 02:50:39).

[volxen]

I’m up through post 94 so far.

Xwing, can you help me understand the trajectory of your gameplay so far? First in 27, you list both UC and Thor as “scum leans”, but then in the same post you also point out that you are sheeping Reundo and RC, which seems to suggest that you aren’t actually scumreading them for your own individual reasons and there really isn’t any confidence behind your reads. Then you vote for Thor in 27, but in 39 it sounds like you are almost starting to regret your vote on Thor – you said here, “im still leaving my vote parked on you for the above logic (paragraph 1)..

i would have placed it at ucvoyager

because of his weird "vote" on you but i dont want to derail the current momentum.. “. You then doubled down on this reasoning again in 90 when you said, “

so maybe i should have stuck with UCvoyager

, but i didnt want to derail the momentum on you coz i was sure it would generate content”. You then unvoted Thor in this post, but, interestingly, you didn’t change your vote to UC. It comes across like you really

want

to vote for UC, but you are helpless to do so.

So my question is, if UC is the person you are the most suspicious of (which your ISO seems to suggest that is the case), why did you feel obligated to leave your vote parked on Thor for so long? You mentioned twice that you feared momentum would be lost if you had switched your vote from Thor to UC, but why did you believe that to be the case? Much of the posts in this thread so far consist of the back-and-forth between Thor and RC. I really don’t think you changing your vote from Thor to UC would have changed that or lessened the early game momentum that was started from Thor’s wagon.

If UC is the person you are the most suspicious of, you should be putting pressure on him to see how he reacts. The logical thing to do is to vote him and see if you can get others to follow suit to intensify the pressure and see how UC reacts. You could also start questioning him (beyond just asking him about the unvote vote thing). Why haven’t you done any of this?

[xwing]

@Xwing - how do you see ignoring my slot to help you win the game?

i'm not ignoring your slot per se, i'm ignoring you at the moment..there's plenty of back and forth with you and the others already and i believe there's even more content to come..

[xwing]

I’m up through post 94 so far.

Xwing, can you help me understand the trajectory of your gameplay so far? First in 27, you list both UC and Thor as “scum leans”, but then in the same post you also point out that you are sheeping Reundo and RC, which seems to suggest that you aren’t actually scumreading them for your own individual reasons and there really isn’t any confidence behind your reads. Then you vote for Thor in 27, but in 39 it sounds like you are almost starting to regret your vote on Thor – you said here, “im still leaving my vote parked on you for the above logic (paragraph 1)..

i would have placed it at ucvoyager

because of his weird "vote" on you but i dont want to derail the current momentum.. “. You then doubled down on this reasoning again in 90 when you said, “

so maybe i should have stuck with UCvoyager

, but i didnt want to derail the momentum on you coz i was sure it would generate content”. You then unvoted Thor in this post, but, interestingly, you didn’t change your vote to UC. It comes across like you really

want

to vote for UC, but you are helpless to do so.

So my question is, if UC is the person you are the most suspicious of (which your ISO seems to suggest that is the case), why did you feel obligated to leave your vote parked on Thor for so long? You mentioned twice that you feared momentum would be lost if you had switched your vote from Thor to UC, but why did you believe that to be the case? Much of the posts in this thread so far consist of the back-and-forth between Thor and RC. I really don’t think you changing your vote from Thor to UC would have changed that or lessened the early game momentum that was started from Thor’s wagon.

If UC is the person you are the most suspicious of, you should be putting pressure on him to see how he reacts. The logical thing to do is to vote him and see if you can get others to follow suit to intensify the pressure and see how UC reacts. You could also start questioning him (beyond just asking him about the unvote vote thing). Why haven’t you done any of this?

i believe i've already explained in my earlier posts and responses to the questions, but i'll repeat for you:
in my first game, town had a hard time reading my slot coz i played safe..so in this game i tried to stick out by voting on the wagon and putting thor at L-1..apparently as pointed out by most, that action was the opposite of what i wanted to do (e.g. it made me seem to hide behind majority instead of stick out coz i put him at L-1 like i was intending)..upon examination i admit that was a bad move on my part..at that time im not able to really defend my vote on thor coz i dont believe him to be scum, i just wanted to see how the interactions between the 3 "strongest" players were..it would be beneficial for town to sort out their alignments early..i thought it would derail momentum coz i put it at L-1, if you remove it then there's no real scare of being lynched (at that time, of course thor didnt know that, until he dissected me)..

obviously that time i thought it would derail the momentum if i removed the L-1 vote there..what i thought vs what you thought wont always be the same as we're different individuals..i removed my vote when i knew it was futile coz the pressure is already off after i told thor i essentially dont scum read him [paraphrased]..
yes we all know already that i had no confidence in that vote and i had no reasons for voting thor other than what i've said above..we already established that during my interaction with both thor and notnova (not sure which post but maybe you should finish reading everything first..)

what kind of pressure do you expect me to put on UC? have you read my rock solid case on him? (hmm maybe not yet but you will later..continue reading til the later pages).. i leaned scum on him on what..page 2..on why..his first post..do you think he will be pressured if i put my vote on him now? do you think others will be convinced and follow suit? honestly?
now it's more like im waiting for him to speak/address my question..when he comes back then i can engage with him more..

[xwing]

@volxen: let's engage some more after you finish reading everything, i've got a follow up for you..as i'm sure you have for me..
putting this here so i'll remember..

[xwing]

im contemplating on a TvS possibility on your trio..but so far even if i dont get thor im leaning town on the 3 of you still..
but if i were to choose who i think is most scum among the trio, i'd think it's thor..coz of his way with words..he'll probably question and ask me to explain why but i'd rather ignore him.

I'm actually inclined to believe Thor is town with his fingers in his ears. I think Reundo had the most to gain an scum on our three way situation by defending me but we are on similar pages.

What I was getting at was that no one outside of the three is really framing it as at least one scum on the mix. It points towards those that haven't given their thoughts on the matter since scum is more inclined to point things like that out.

among you 3, i lean town strongest on reundo..the one that resonated with me the most was his thought on "natural reaction to something scummy"..yeah we could argue about what is "natural" bla bla bla but i dont want to get into that with thor..

my worry is the 3 of you arguing on some other stuff like semantics and such might be unhelpful for town as it's mostly(?) NAI..but so far none of the others (may be including me) are generating much content to read anyway so there's that..

another angle im thinking is either he explains himself in a way that's frustrating to whoever the questioner was so they'd just drop it..like what you and i did..(or at least what i did)..
im still thinking it's a play style thing, but im not discounting anything at this point..

lastly and most importantly, can you re-phrase/expound your last paragraph? im not sure i get it..

[RCEnigma]

Sure, the easy play to get town against each other is to simply throw shade onto one of the three going back and forth. Or at the very least add fuel to the fire. Even if all three are town in this case we already don't see eye to eye so adding more doubt benefits scum more than it does town.

That doesn't necessarily mean the slots that haven't spoken are scum because it hasn't happened that way but it does make me even more wary of those slots in general.

[Thor665]

@Xwing - how do you see ignoring my slot to help you win the game?

i'm not ignoring your slot per se, i'm ignoring you at the moment..there's plenty of back and forth with you and the others already and i believe there's even more content to come..

Okay.
How does "ignoring me for some period of time yet to be declared" help you win?
I feel it won't.

Unvote: RCEnigma
Vote: UCVoyager

RCE is starting to convince me he might be town. Let's lynch UCVoyager. (as a disclaimer for Reundo - though I do say 'let's lynch' which *could* mean 'immediately, like in the next 20 minutes' my lack of inclusion of timing does not actually clarify this as my goal, the better way to read this is 'let's lynch him in a general sense insomuch as I read him as scum, but I understand that other votes might take a bit of time to gather here, and I also appreciate the use of hammer intent and claim time for people to assess the wagon - and though I would like to see proactive advancement of that end goal within a short time, frankly within 48 hours having a hammer intent would please me immensely, it is not a statement that we must do it all immediately )

[xwing]

@RCE: thanks, i get your point..

@thor: it keeps me motivated to play the game..
how exactly were you convinced of RCE's towniness?
why is UC scum for you?

[Thor665]

@thor: it keeps me motivated to play the game..

Wow - I'm sorry reading my posts is that painful to you.
Frankly though, if you're town aren't you basically game throwing right now and being a jerk to all your fellow town team by not bothering to read posts to help catch a scum member or figure out a town member?

how exactly were you convinced of RCE's towniness?[/quote[
To clarify - I said starting to convince, not convinced.
For me the basic evidence is he doesn't appear to have a plan. Being lost tends to be a thing town are more comfortable with. Compare/contrast with Reundo who, even though he is admitting half his case on me might be wrong, is also still voting me and is ignoring that 2 players who were voting me are agreeing they had flawed reasoning while Reundo is attacking me for calling out flawed reasoning being used to vote me. If he's town, he's absolutely tunneled and not helpful. If he's scum - he's probably scared that admitting he was wrong and actually doing something different would 'look scummy' so he's digging in hard to avoid it. Either way it's not town minded. RCE is using terrible logic, but at least he seems generally interested to toss out a lot of town reads and also to (weakly) poke at new avenues. Makes it look like he might legit be trying to solve the game.

why is UC scum for you?

At this point - being purely unhelpful to town paired with not posting. If we can't sort him we might as well flip him because I wouldn't want him in lylo if this is how he'll be playing the rest of the game.
Want to vote him with me?
If nothing else it will allow someone to freak out that I'm asking for support on a wagon again.

[Thor665]

@thor: it keeps me motivated to play the game..

Wow - I'm sorry reading my posts is that painful to you.
Frankly though, if you're town aren't you basically game throwing right now and being a jerk to all your fellow town team by not bothering to read posts to help catch a scum member or figure out a town member?

how exactly were you convinced of RCE's towniness?

To clarify - I said starting to convince, not convinced.
For me the basic evidence is he doesn't appear to have a plan. Being lost tends to be a thing town are more comfortable with. Compare/contrast with Reundo who, even though he is admitting half his case on me might be wrong, is also still voting me and is ignoring that 2 players who were voting me are agreeing they had flawed reasoning while Reundo is attacking me for calling out flawed reasoning being used to vote me. If he's town, he's absolutely tunneled and not helpful. If he's scum - he's probably scared that admitting he was wrong and actually doing something different would 'look scummy' so he's digging in hard to avoid it. Either way it's not town minded. RCE is using terrible logic, but at least he seems generally interested to toss out a lot of town reads and also to (weakly) poke at new avenues. Makes it look like he might legit be trying to solve the game.

why is UC scum for you?

At this point - being purely unhelpful to town paired with not posting. If we can't sort him we might as well flip him because I wouldn't want him in lylo if this is how he'll be playing the rest of the game.
Want to vote him with me?
If nothing else it will allow someone to freak out that I'm asking for support on a wagon again.

[xwing]

oh, im still reading everything..i want to help town so i focused on not interacting with you if i can so i wont get demotivated..but it wont be at the expense of town..me replying to you means im still reading what you're posting..i even raised questions directed at you..

im not voting for UC yet, since horror and standing (to be replaced) are in the same boat as him..i was expecting to hear from them yesterday but we got nil..im thinking they might get replaced and it wouldn't be nice to come into a game with piles of votes on them already..

i disagree on your take on reundo..for me it's more to me like he's standing his ground on what he believes, and until he's satisfied that the main crux of his argument with you is resolved..
scum wouldn't be tunneling this much, so im actually leaning pretty much town on him..

i more or less agree on your take on RCE that he's got no plan or agenda, but im sensing the same from reundo..i think RCE did understand/agree on some of the merits of your argument, but i would think it was also out of exasperation that he just dropped the thing (RCE, please correct me if im wrong)..

besides the reason you already stated, is there honestly ANY other reason for you choosing UC over the other two inactives?

[Thor665]

He's posting, they're not.

How do you see no plan from Reeundo? He's clearly tunnel locked. You can call that a bad plan, but it's clear what he's about and wants.

[xwing]

hmmm..re UC, fair enough..

on reundo: everyone has some sort of plan so to say that they got "no" plan is actually wrong..i meant more like he doesnt seem to have a scum agenda..what does scum!reundo gain from tunneling on you? if you were to sort him now, where does he lean?