micro 816-I: spaam (normal game) (gambe over)

[RadiantCowbells]

if you are roleblocker and didn't target mutant you should out
if you did then you're free to go on whoever you think gives you the most equity of stopping a lynch

[RadiantCowbells]

gonna be real blunt here because idc if you die

i feel like you're softing some sort of result and that's the only reason I'm giving you the night

[RadiantCowbells]

are you passing?

[RadiantCowbells]

UNVOTE:

we have time.

making sure anyone who has somethign to say says it.

[RadiantCowbells]

Overall conclusion: I know my own alignment, I town read irrelephant and Gamma. Hence the only person I don't think is town who is off the wagon is Gemini. Regardless of Irrelephant's alignment, I believe there to be 1 scum off the wagon. So Gemini must be scum.

VOTE: GeminiTwin12

this was the only reason you ever gave for why you were scumreading gemini, ftr.

[RadiantCowbells]

you

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm curious, how much of that did FL actually write for you?

[RadiantCowbells]

i mean if you take an occurence that's probabilistically right >50% of the time and use it it'll be right >50% of the time
but I don't feel like arguing that with you without knowing for sure it's something you actually believe

[RadiantCowbells]

like 7 people on a d1 wagon that flips town
you say 'oh there is probably scum on that wagon'
yes probability states that there is probably scum on that wagon but it doesn't mean you're saying anything meaningful
and the fact that you have extra information {your townreads) changes the probabilities of scum being on or off the wagon

but again I don't recall seeing you ever push something like that as town so hopefully you do in fact know better.

[RadiantCowbells]

If FL was my partner, why would he now be voting me if he had every reason to be pushing Gemini? If we were scum, we'd just need to lynch Gemini to win. He wouldn't have much reason to bus me unless he thought he'd survive the next day - which, from his posts, he clearly doesn't think he will.

Gemini is the only mislynch you guys are trying for and if lynching you first helps him lynch gemini why wouldn't he?
Furthermore: why would you feel the need to argue that you're not scum

with

flavor leaf if you were town

Unless you think that argument I had with him earlier about him controlling the worst's posts was completely fabricated then I think it's pretty clear that if FL tried to say to me "hey, post this" then I really wouldn't.

Okay, maybe I was wrong that FL wrote those for you.

This comment here feels to me as if you liked my recent posts but because you're so intent on me being scum you want to justify it as not actually being my thoughts.

Liked as in townread? no, this is pretty much exactly what I expect from scum in this situation
you try to sound really reasonable and not make any unnecessary enemies while pushing your designated lynch and that's what you're doing

the only thing I'm noting that seems extraordinary is that it looks like you're trying to pocket FL and I'm not quite sure if he set it up like that or if I'm wrong somewhere else

I also honestly don't understand why you scum read me. You started the game town reading but then when you decided Gemini is town you reevaluated on me and from there it's been like I'm confirmed scum to you. You've criticised my every step saying it makes me scum but never really explained how it makes me scummy. You've interpreted my words wrong so many times yet when explained how you've interpreted me wrong you've seemingly made no effort to reevaluate your statements about it. I just don't understand why you have this burning hatred towards me.

Originally I wrote you off as town because meh sounds reasonable and the tone is okay but then I realized that your content was actually awful and you kept taking scummy positions on things
like deathtunneling someone for several day phases because they were off a wagon but being happy to jump off to take the mislynch on TW

There was also the 'rc is scum because he should have been shot' then when the watcher was explained to you you stood by it even though your entire read centred around me being a good kill

And we've never played a game together so I don't understand your final statement. Unless you're trying to say you've meta dived me? If you have then you should really know how this game is nothing like my scum games. At all.

What difference am I supposed to be noticing?

[RadiantCowbells]

\you're perfectly capable of both the logical content in the wallposts and these reach outs based on tit for tat and tbh I'm surprised you lost that game from what of your iso I read.

[RadiantCowbells]

even this whole meta argument I remember you doing the exact same thing in tit for tat when you got called out on how you did readslists as town vs scum

I'm betting you didn't know I saw that when you decided to make this day phase about your meta, did you?

[RadiantCowbells]

my issue is that you think it's probable that gemini/mutant is a thing

[RadiantCowbells]

fmpov it's pretty obvious that mutant has hard committed to gemini and doesn't have a plan beyond that
at the risk of continued RC/Gemini buddy speculation I would say it's more likely that mutant's partner is in gamma/irrelephant than that it's gemini

[RadiantCowbells]

If gemini's meant to be the survivor then why isn't she voting him and pushing him as scum?

I don't buy that she's scum with Mutant who is hard pushing her while she doesn't counterbus in the hopes of... what exactly?
I buy gemini as town who doesn't really know what to do with the entire game shitting on her because I've seen her do exactly that in the last newbie we played together where I was scum.

That's on top of the fact that Gemini/Mutant is perhaps the sole scumteam in the game who doesn't benefit from my demise and all the passing says that I was in fact the save.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like you're not 'wrong' that if that was the scumteam that I would absolutely expect the play to be for Gemini to bus Mutant, kill Gamma or something, and then mislynch you
But gemini's not bussing mutant, is she?

[RadiantCowbells]

(oh and again that scumteam wouldn't have made a potshot on me last night. I guess that's the least strong argument because I wouldn't be surprised if Gemini was terrified of me regardless of my current readset and wanted me dead but meh.)

[RadiantCowbells]

So I know I'm town

Gamma is pushing on Gemini
Irrelephant is pushing on Gemini
Mutant is pushing on Gemini
you're pushing on Gemini

Gemini is floundering in a towny way

No, scum just want to mislynch gemini and if you're town you should think long and hard about your townreads on irrelephant and gamma because gemini isn't scum here ever.

[RadiantCowbells]

Why not push on Mutant also? why overcommit to trying to get the lynch today instead of bussing if necessary when I'm the only person who thinks gemini might be town?
The wincon since ya'll gamethrow lynched TW has been the gemini lynch. If Gemini were scum scum would need a lynch outside of mutant/devle to win but

Gemini hasn't seriously pushed anyone today (which I would expect her as scum to do). Mutantdevle hasn't pushed a scum besides Gemini.

If you think gemini is scum you think that mutant is town, and right, and gemini's buddy is somewhere else.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm saying that mutant/gemini is not svs ever and that if you're town you need to be reevaluating the other players not tunneling gemini because the game will be a loss with gemini lynch tomorrow anyway.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm worried because mutant doesn't feel svs with you either.

[RadiantCowbells]

I mean occam's razor you just coached him a lot in how to look like he was buddying you for towncred tbh

[RadiantCowbells]

So I'm caught up of the game's preceding events.

I don't really have anything to comment on since I was reading it as just some reading rather than something to engage with. However, I will be engaging with things said from now on so that y'all can get some AI stuff from my slot.

Right now I think Gamma is town and Ircher feels *different* which is giving me a scum twitch.

In general, I find something off about {Ircher, Prof Fridays, GeminiTwin12 & Flavor Leaf}. Idk why but I just feel like both scums could be in such pool as if you pick any 2 players from this pool then they make sense as a scum team.

town!mutant in particular is like, hilariously towny in his DEEPLY EARNEST efforts to sort players which I haven't felt in a single one of his posts yet

Really? You don't think my interactions with Gamma was sorting? You don't think my pressure on Irrelephant and then arriving on the opposite conclusion was sorting? You don't think my 808 - 812 concerning flavour leaf was sorting?

You insult me ducky.

As you know, I have a great deal of self-awareness. I know when I'm being scummy. I know when I'm being townie. Some of the stuff I've just listed above I was happy with because I felt like I was doing a good. The fact that you don't find a

single

one of those moments to be the quality that I felt it was is just insulting.

lol

[RadiantCowbells]

so

gamma/mutant they both just call each other town at the start of the game and never waver on it, which is at the very least ballsy
mutant derptunnels irrelephant for a bit then they kind of dance around each other for the rest of the game

[RadiantCowbells]

mutant/gamma is actually really ugly

they have also consistently been the only two people doubtcasting whether I was town or not while not pushing on me

[RadiantCowbells]

also there's a certain amount of righteousness to the hey I'm not scum with FL because I wouldn't pull that shit that I kind of buy

[RadiantCowbells]

For completion's sake I'll check through gemini as well

[RadiantCowbells]

still not buying gemini as scum based off of her D1 alone, and the recent content that's got her scumread doesn't point to her being scum.
I really don't feel like trying to sift through mutant's ISO for a partner right now

I'm not clearing FL but I need to actually play this game at some point and I'm feeling pretty demoralized right now so later.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'll find scum before deadline

please leave gemini the fuck alone until then. if you really feel that sure i've missed something case her and I'll read it but I think that I know her better than you do.

[RadiantCowbells]

I have a question

If Mutant wasn't scum, who would the scumteam be?

[RadiantCowbells]

I guess if I say mutant/gemini both town then whichever of gamma/irrel/FL is town has it on poe but

[RadiantCowbells]

@gemini I could really use some input from you on your reads right now

[RadiantCowbells]

when is in a minute?

[RadiantCowbells]

fucking rekt gemini you scrub

[RadiantCowbells]

it was less being uncertain about mutant and more trying to cover my bases and i wanted to go over the associatives if anyone else had any specific scumteams that they thought needed to be looked at
sure, I guess you're not actively pushing the gemini wagon, but unless you're saying that you're scum and that I'm wrong that doesn't really change anything

[RadiantCowbells]

Gamma let's be clear if you're going to call me scum here I'm just going to votepark you until you're dead and if you're town and we lose it as a result not a one of the dead players will be on your side

[RadiantCowbells]

You can ask all the questions you want.

I have no problem sharing the loss with you if you push on me

[RadiantCowbells]

You know the world I play this game in

You can get salty about the way I guard my interactions or you can work around my systematic negative experiences.

[RadiantCowbells]

My thought process did indeed include the presumption that I was town. I was also under the impression no one really doubted that.

[RadiantCowbells]

You mean like every scum in every recent game I've played has gone after me?

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: Gamma

Please hammer this asap

[RadiantCowbells]

i think mutant/gamma is the team

i think that we're more likely to accidentally hit scum on gamma if that's wrong because mutant has so many exclusions for me

[RadiantCowbells]

no mutant rly did not play a really good scum game

[RadiantCowbells]

please don't make me spend time on this game when I have better things to do

[RadiantCowbells]

FL regardless of your read on irrel you should know gamma has to be the partner, no?

[RadiantCowbells]

Kinda worried it's FL gamma and he's trying to say he wouldn't do this as scum

[RadiantCowbells]

That's exactly what he wants you to think and I think that's kind of obvious

Doc is on me

[RadiantCowbells]

k so
one scum is extremely obvious to me, the other is not
protective claims now

[RadiantCowbells]

i'm popcorning to FL btw.

[RadiantCowbells]

this game kind of sucked.

[RadiantCowbells]

Im gonna wait and see what happens claim wise because at worst we have 5050 and at best a clear

[RadiantCowbells]

Hell if it was doc and not on me the game is just solved

[RadiantCowbells]

gemini mutant you're up.

[RadiantCowbells]

this is mostly perfunctory at this point ftr

[RadiantCowbells]

wait

who are you claiming to have roleblocked yesterday?

[RadiantCowbells]

what are all your night actions?

[RadiantCowbells]

mutant claim all your actions

[RadiantCowbells]

k so

irrelephant you're agreeing from your pov that mutant is conftown, yes?

[RadiantCowbells]

Gemini are you going to claim doc as well

[RadiantCowbells]

scum have more power than a tracker here for sure

[RadiantCowbells]

Can you please keep your cards face down until gemini claims

[RadiantCowbells]

ok

[RadiantCowbells]

if you're town, why are we having this discussion before gemini claims?

[RadiantCowbells]

All I want is for gemini to have as little info as possible to make a claim.

[RadiantCowbells]

okay. unvote please.

i'll have a lot to say in about 20 minutes

[RadiantCowbells]

@Gemini if you're town unvote Irrelephant for a bit.

[RadiantCowbells]

SUMMON THE ELECTOR COUNTS

[RadiantCowbells]

I shouldn't really have to tryhard here but I have decided I'm going to tryhard here anyway

[RadiantCowbells]

it's 2v2 from your perspective but from my point of view it's 1/3 in

FL/Gemini
FL/Irrelephant
Mutant/Irrelephant

and I want to read associatives again before I do anything, particularly given that I've been wrong on virtually everything this game

[RadiantCowbells]

like sure they can crossvote but that's not exactly helpful for me

[RadiantCowbells]

you predicted gemini claiming to have protected me yesterday, though. why?

[RadiantCowbells]

Yesterday you started talking about Gemini claiming a protect on me out of nowhere
today you started talking about mutant protecting you out of nowhere

[RadiantCowbells]

i really wish I was in the 1v1 and not outside of it

[RadiantCowbells]

why did irrelephant try to push the lynch on mutant > gamma yesterday if they're buddies?

[RadiantCowbells]

talking specifically yesterday
if you knew there was a doctor you would want to out the doctor so bussing Gemini, having her claim doctor on the way out, eating the towncred for her lynch and taking out the doctor is a pretty solid play

[RadiantCowbells]

how did you get that from that post?

[RadiantCowbells]

I said bussing explicitly

[RadiantCowbells]

i was townreading irrel/gemini
i thought you/mutant were scum

maria thought the scumteam was... irrelephant/gemini

so i'm not exactly feeling good about this game

[RadiantCowbells]

all the scumteams feel pretty awful at this point

[RadiantCowbells]

Watcher Enabler
Even Night Watcher
Doctor
VT
VT
VT
VT

Odd-Night Roleblocker
?

VS

Watcher Enabler
Odd-Night Roleblocker
Even-Night Watcher
Doctor
VT
VT
VT

Tracker?
?

[RadiantCowbells]

setup A is fine as is with a goon

setup B requires pretty heavy scum power, probably a full jailkeeper or a rolecop + something small

[RadiantCowbells]

Do tell

Tell what? Is it not obvious?

I think your response to someone pointing out you just completely changed a read that you had been talking about for a good part of the game was complete bull. You tried to play your mistake all cool like but I believe that you just scum slipped.

I'm surprised that others are letting you get away with a wonky reads list that you then tried to describe as a reaction test.

this is pretty awful

[RadiantCowbells]

We're lynching in doc claims today

[RadiantCowbells]

FL Mutant

Forget your own alignment: who is scum in docs and why?

[RadiantCowbells]

Docs can crossvote now

[RadiantCowbells]

Mutant don't vote anyone idc what your reads are

If you think Gemini is scum sell me don't vote her

[RadiantCowbells]

I mean I'd question why they want the all in on you but I guess they might have thought I wouldn't vote Gemini no matter what

[RadiantCowbells]

If we lose we lose because our first two lynches were shit ftr

Ircher basically gt and y'all quicklynched TW while I wasn't here

[RadiantCowbells]

You should realize if mutant flips scum the game is solved universally

[RadiantCowbells]

Fmpov mutant is a strictly inferior lynch to Irrelephant so that's never happening, sorry.

[RadiantCowbells]

Should I not be?

[RadiantCowbells]

You have two minutes remaining before I conclude Flavor is deciding for you

she's literally counterclaiming you, you realize

[RadiantCowbells]

oh I guess you mean in the sense that she's not making posts until FL tells her what to do, not that she might be town

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm really worried that it's FL/you and that's the reason FL went with the 'scumslippy' attempt to lead my thinking into the 2v2 dichotomy

[RadiantCowbells]

@Irrel what was up with your tunnel on FL D1
@Mutant what was up with your tunnel on Irrel D1

[RadiantCowbells]

in an ideal world the scumdoc flip will give us information on whether town could have an odd night roleblocker still alive

[RadiantCowbells]

if FL is scum he's absolutely the best lynch because it gives us a 50% chance of autowin

but I'm also just really not in the mood to try and dig through FL's iso for a read on him

[RadiantCowbells]

i'm really not in the mood to read this game at all.
i'm hoping sometime in the next 14 days I'll get a spur of energy and start being useful but right now i'm mostly just saying to myself yeah I need to play that game but not doing it
it's actually really helpful sometimes that lurking is a towntell for me because I can usually get away with no efforting when I don't feel like efforting

No, if mutant is town FL is the best lynch
If mutant's claim is believable he's town

the two are one and the same
I don't believe even-night watcher and odd-night roleblocker requires a watcher enabler to nerf it even against goon/goon so I believe at least 1 of the doctors is town

mutant is never a scum odd-night roleblocker (would have won last night)
mutant is never town when I'm scum (I wouldn't block a mislynch like this)

I think FL/Irrelephant could easily have chosen to clear mutant here after they got roleblocked if they had a strong guess what he was
if you and him totally wet the bed on your targeting and thought that FL was the doc over Gemini, sure.

[RadiantCowbells]

if you're going to do that I'll vote you right now.

[RadiantCowbells]

you'll hit scum and look townier than RC does rn

[RadiantCowbells]

said to the same person you were trying to get me to vote, like, on the same page

[RadiantCowbells]

if I end up being wrong I'm really sorry for my play this game.

[RadiantCowbells]

can shoshin and NSG pass on messages to me directly? can you guys like paraphrase?

it would be really helpful to me

[RadiantCowbells]

YES
hi
um
i don't actually know what to say when it comes down to it
do you have anything to say to me?

[RadiantCowbells]

aaah

[RadiantCowbells]

why were you and irrel wrong on gemini?

[RadiantCowbells]

At the time I thought FL's approach to the gamma wagon was basically a scumclaim in terms of him claiming to think a mylo lynch was town and not really doing anything about it while letting it go through and then trying to be townread for it

meh

[RadiantCowbells]

at this point I'm trying to, like, not commit mentally to anything so I'm more just trying to get more info from everyone and I'll make the decision when I'm not feeling as bad about this game

i realize that's not particularly helpful to you but I just aaa

[RadiantCowbells]

If she's really scum then I'm pathetic at reading her right now so you would do me a great service by doing that

[RadiantCowbells]

Fwiw I think mutant at least is town

[RadiantCowbells]

If we lynch FL and he's scum there's a 50% of a doc save in me/mutant and getting to 4 way and having autowin which would make my life a lot easier

[RadiantCowbells]

Mutant where the fuck has nsg been all game

[RadiantCowbells]

where has she been all game

what has she posted to you like the rest of the game, what have her reads been, etc

[RadiantCowbells]

Mutant if I die will you take the possibility that irrel was scum with FL seriously?

I'm not telling you to lynch him, I'm telling you to do your own meta work and treat it like a real lylo

[RadiantCowbells]

Aaaaaaaaaa

I really don't trust you mutant

[RadiantCowbells]

As a player no offense

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: FL

Gemini if you're town you have a 50/50 to win by saving me or mutant
if you can't do that sorry but your read on me didnt change when you thought you had saved me

[RadiantCowbells]

UNVOTE:

[RadiantCowbells]

ok well now I'm truly conftown I guess

[RadiantCowbells]

with great power

comes great responsibility

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: FL

whatever I'm fine with this.

[RadiantCowbells]

if it's wrong this is not on me