Newbie 1889: Ice Cream (Game Over)

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Post Post #425 (ISO) » Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:07 pm

Post by CheekyTeeky »

Spoiler: part of nova volxen progression
In post 58, NotNova wrote:Volxen mostly posted about theory, but the attempt to question others reads as genuine townhunting. Null-to-town for now.
In post 70, NotNova wrote:
@Mod, there are 10 votes there with 9 players alive.
volxen is simultaneously voting for me and not voting.

Also, @volxen, I would love to hear your thoughts on the wagon and what your read of everyone so far is.
In post 115, NotNova wrote:
In post 101, volxen wrote:I need to read through everything and get caught up.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: volxen

All the lurking going around has seriously hampered town's ability to sort. Other than asking a few simple questions at the beginning and arguing a bit of theory, you haven't done anything to push the gamestate further. Our two SEs at least ate their prods, whereas you seem to be aware of them if you post obvious prod dodges like these. I'm tired of all the promises people have made for more content, and at this point, I would be willing to call for a policy lynch.

You're lurking, plain as day. Lurking is anti-town - what's your excuse?
In post 179, NotNova wrote:Still, I don't get why volxen seems to be getting an easy pass? Posting at the beginning, seemingly losing interest when most of today's relevant content showed up, then blatantly prod-dodging gives me a foul taste. Yes, sometimes it's a necessity if you're really swamped, but how hard can it be to at least give some overview on your thoughts? The "catching-up" still isn't done either. The walls are admittedly pretty long but some first-impressions and quick reads would be a stronger showing from town, especially since I specifically asked for them.
In post 186, NotNova wrote:Either volxen or xwing, favouring volxen atm. If horrordude was serious about the associatives, however, lynching xwing could really help us solve, so I'd love to hear more about that.

For the record, I think the chance of both volxen and xwing being scum is pretty low given their interactions.
In post 214, NotNova wrote:I was completely fed up with all three of you, and I had to pick one to push - what do you want from me, to push three different lynches at once? I had to make a decision between no content and mostly empty, non-committal active-lurking and I picked the latter. If your best defense is "these guys were doing it too, but I posted slightly more!" then count me as thinking it's a pretty terrible one. Active lurking is more incriminating than regular lurking (from two SEs, no less, who really ought to know that lurking isn't good town-play.) Thus I'm willing to subject it to more scrutiny and accept it as an argument for scumreading you prima facie. And yes, context and timing are perfectly relevant factors in determining whether or not something is scummy.

You haven't given me much reason to excuse your lurking - out of you, horrordude and ceejay, I pick you, even though you all have a stain on your record. I believe I have shown why this is the case.
In post 214, NotNova wrote:What a lazy accusation. You could have gone through my ISO and found incriminating evidence against me, explained my dastardly scum motivations, shown how I've been unfolding my master-plan, or even explained why my reasoning being "questionable" shows that I am scum. Instead, all you can say is "he's suspecting me of being scum, so I will suspect him, too!" You're not infallible, I can suspect you of being scum until proven otherwise. I can safely say you've done absolutely no real proving at all.

At this point I'm perfectly satisfied on volxen as a counter-wagon, even if I am wary of ceejay (who is basically fighting for his life atm) putting the wagon in motion. He is without a doubt my top scumread for today.
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Post Post #426 (ISO) » Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:21 pm

Post by xwing »

In post 424, Skygazer wrote:
In post 410, NotNova wrote:Scum now knows the setup, by the way, as we're definitely in row 2.
this feels like tmi
why?
nova's statement is factual..even i agree that mafia knows the setup now, assuming volxen is JK..
town, on the other hand..is sorta blind still..there might either be a doctor, a tracker, or no more PRs for us..

pedit @CT:
you're shaking me up lol..
i've been open to a scum!thor, but admit i've been biased about thinking of a scum!reundo and scum!nova..
could you elaborate more on your case on them?
reundo's progression on volxen seemed natural and clear to me..
nova's explanation on why he chose volxen also seemed clear and logical for me as well..

i disagree on SvS between reundo and thor..i think the exchange is too much to be SvS..possible perhaps but i dunno..i favor reundo in this exchange though..
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Post Post #427 (ISO) » Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:28 pm

Post by ceejayvinoya »

Oh frick UNVOTE:

Intent to hammer Haylen.
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Post Post #428 (ISO) » Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:29 pm

Post by CheekyTeeky »

Spoiler: xwing volxen read progression
In post 27, xwing wrote:lean town: reundo, RCE, volxen (just from tone)
lean scum: ucvoyager, thor (explanations above)
null: all the rest

VOTE: thor
L-1
In post 120, xwing wrote:to be fair, these guys have posted less content that volxen:
StandingWind (none) - you there?
horrordude0215 (will post soon..said latest Wed..which is today..so we're expecting..)
UC Voyager (will post soon..expecting today..)
In post 140, xwing wrote:@volxen: let's engage some more after you finish reading everything, i've got a follow up for you..as i'm sure you have for me..
putting this here so i'll remember.. :)
In post 180, xwing wrote:im sorting out volxen's slot, but it relies on him replying back to me..
In post 230, xwing wrote:im not fence sitting, im usually V/LA on weekends..i did a *very very quick* skim and just for the record, i'm okay with a volxen lynch..
i'll come back a little bit later with more detail.. :)
In post 233, xwing wrote:good timing on the vote count mod..didnt want to vote until i saw the number of votes..

im not 100% sure of my gut feel on volxen yet, but the reason im okay to vote for him is because:

1. he made a townie entrance (at least for me) and that's good..but then..he was missing during the major events of the game, not commenting on the triumvirate at all..what did you think of that exchange? it's very hard to miss..
2. after making a reasonable entrance, his sudden absence pinged me as well..and im glad that reundo and notnova were pinged too..i intentionally did not call volxen out as he had questions for me so it would be normal for me to engage him without him putting up his walls and people were still generally suspicious of me..but reundo and notnova already called him out so that plan went down the drain lol..but that's still fine..
3. im wary of people saying "they will catch up" or "will come read at so and so time" but dont deliver..it feels like prodging/delaying tactic..you could at least post your thoughts regarding what have so far transpired, and you can post a follow up after you've caught up and change your views as necessary..
4. his questions to me feel like just a very weak attempt at scumhunting..almost all of the questions he asked me have already been asked by someone else and answered by me (clearly and in full, i might add, seeing that no one had follow up questions on my answers..)..i felt like there was nothing new in his questioning, or some other angle that he's looking at..
4. his questions to me are hypocritical..
a. he asked me why i put my vote on thor for so long, whereas his vote was on notnova for arguably the same amount of time..i didnt point this out immediately as i wanted to give him the chance to change his vote but he never did during the time we engaged each other..granted there were differences in circumstances, but notnova has produced a lot of content by that time already..does volxen still see notnova as scummy then?
b. he wanted me to put a vote on who i scum read, but his vote was just on notnova for RVS..i would assume i was his scumread since im the only one he was questioning, but his vote was never on me (IIRC)..in fact i dont recall him ever having a scum read at all..
c. he found it suspicious that i voted on thor for little or no reasoning [paraphrased], yet his reason for putting UC at L-1 is well, not really much at all too..i daresay my "sheeping" reason was even better than his vote reasoning for this instance..
5. putting L-1 in a big nice font is a nice touch..kinda like hiding in plain sight..which seems to be your modus..i might be wrong on this, but it just came off to me as such..

in my last game, the one to cast suspicion of me early and tried to pressure me turned out to be scum who was using me coz i was an easy mislynch (my entrance sucked harder this game though)..he only changed his mind about me when he saw other people were getting convinced i was town and he wouldnt be able to push for me easily anymore (im a slow starter)..scum actually thought i was jailer, hence the early night kill..

i understand and agree on the merits of the angel lynch, but i'd rather see how volxen reacts to the counter wagon, and give some time for ceejay..

we got a lot of inactives this game so im still worried that townies still might be killing off each other as we've got a limited lynch pool..

VOTE: volxen

i got a good feeling from horror's first serious posts, but im a bit worried i got it wrong since people are getting pinged (im not)..gotta see more from horror..

notnova and reundo are strong town..
RCE is probably town..
horror i'll put at town lean for now..need more content..
thor still seems townie to me, but i wont be surprised if he turns out to be scum..
ceej i'll put you at null first..i havent read much on you yet honestly..
angel null, but im willing to vote off based on "slot flaked twice" argument..
volxen - scum lean
In post 264, xwing wrote:i was your scum lean but you never voted for me..and i didnt feel any pressure from your questions because i've already answered them..if you had a different angle or something i would have considered you were truly pressuring/scum hunting me..but it didnt appear that way to me..

it's also hypocritical to me coz you expect me to have done the above [bolded], but you never did so yourself..
In post 299, xwing wrote:
In post 276, RCEnigma wrote:I think your case loses steam after point 3 and after that doesn't make me go hmm yeah I can see scum doing that. I think Novas case is a little more grounded.

Volxens lack of transparent reads is very different from the last game I played with him but I got the feeling there was a reason for it.

Also I would lynch angel before you if that's what you're asking. Your play has been alright besides a few lines here and there that read very forced. Your early game, entrance aside was pinged out and I've noticed your shift away from that but that's not really alignment indicative, scum doesn't want to be scumread either.
awww..thanks for the honesty though im bummed i thought i had a good case..

im trying to keep an open mind with regards to volxen, but no one's come up with a good argument to change my mind on him yet..

what do you mean by "reads that are forced"? i see this come up but im unsure what this pertains to..
In post 302, xwing wrote:i have my doubts on volxen's alignment but it seems to be the one that makes the most sense to me right now and we're running out of time..im doubting it a bit coz of RCE's (my town lean) firm stand on volxen..he may be wrong, he may be right, i dunno..i just gave it some weight as RCE has played with him..if anyone's got a better case than volxen's they should voice it now..as long as we dont no-lynch i believe town is still in a better position the next day..
In post 305, xwing wrote:
In post 304, volxen wrote:@xwing, who all is in your lynch pool?
that would be you, then angel (mostly for the twice flaked, which i admit is quite weak)..
im gonna look at ceej and sky more as well (in that order)..
any reason you asked?
In post 348, xwing wrote:
In post 296, volxen wrote: Because the one person I am 100% certain of being town is myself. My win condition requires all scum to be lynched, and I know for a fact that I am not scum, so me being mislynched does not help me meet my win condition. So don't I have an obligation to defend myself to the best of my abilities, as opposed to sitting back and just accepting my mislynch? I'm not really sure what point you are trying to drive home here.
going only by this post, i would say this as a townie mindset (this exactly would be how i would think if im getting seriously considered for lynch)..
however, i dont feel like you're using the "best of your abilities" right now..your actions and words dont jive..your counter-arguments against your wagon are weak, or it's as if you didn't get to the crux of the argument or dumbing it down (i cant say if it's intentional or not, but i think the case is straightforward)..
granted, you may have real life stuff preventing you from posting much..that's fine..but with the time you had to post, i dont feel like it was put to good use..

i've put weight on RCE's comments about you (he really didnt give much as reasoning, it's more of his firm stance on you that got me re-evaluating)..and will wait and see if CT's points for a town!volxen will convince me, but as of this writing im still convinced of your lynch..
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Post Post #429 (ISO) » Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:30 pm

Post by ceejayvinoya »

Where I'm at right now with reads is

{Reundo, NotNova}
{xwing, Sky}
{CT, Thor}
{Haylen}
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Post Post #430 (ISO) » Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:31 pm

Post by Skygazer »

In post 426, xwing wrote:
In post 424, Skygazer wrote:
In post 410, NotNova wrote:Scum now knows the setup, by the way, as we're definitely in row 2.
this feels like tmi
why?
nova's statement is factual..even i agree that mafia knows the setup now, assuming volxen is JK..
town, on the other hand..is sorta blind still..there might either be a doctor, a tracker, or no more PRs for us...
Nova's statement is correct if volx is the JK but the way the post is worded it feels like Nova
knows
that the claim is true.
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Post Post #431 (ISO) » Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:32 pm

Post by ceejayvinoya »

Oh on second thought knock down Sky a peg, I don't like her 424.

{Reundo, NotNova} likely town
{xwing} townlean
{CT, Thor, Sky} null
{Haylen} scumlean
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Post Post #432 (ISO) » Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:34 pm

Post by ceejayvinoya »

In post 430, Skygazer wrote:
In post 426, xwing wrote:
In post 424, Skygazer wrote:
In post 410, NotNova wrote:Scum now knows the setup, by the way, as we're definitely in row 2.
this feels like tmi
why?
nova's statement is factual..even i agree that mafia knows the setup now, assuming volxen is JK..
town, on the other hand..is sorta blind still..there might either be a doctor, a tracker, or no more PRs for us...
Nova's statement is correct if volx is the JK but the way the post is worded it feels like Nova
knows
that the claim is true.
Well there doesn't seem to be anyone counterclaiming or challenging his claim. Do you doubt volxen?
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Post Post #433 (ISO) » Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:36 pm

Post by Skygazer »

Not doubting volxen at the moment but that doesn't mean someone who implies that the claim is 100% true doesn't have too much info
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Post Post #434 (ISO) » Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:37 pm

Post by CheekyTeeky »

Ok so that's all 4.

I think Reundo/Nova actually seem the most natural. Ceejay is tunneling, putting all your eggs in one basket is never a good idea and you're no newb either lol. Xwing you sadly look the worst to me. Your case on volxen before you voted is a classic scum tell of an over-justified read. You also waivered in your push waiting for others to reinforce or weaken the read for you. That looked like you were trying to stay under the radar by going along with popular opinion. You also ask a lot of strange questions about preflip associations which are useless preflip unless used by scum for positioning. Questions asked by town are usually to determine a player they are questionning's alignment but your questions weren't for sorting but looked like they were directing people's suspicion away from you onto others. This makes me sad because I find you enjoyable to play with.
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Post Post #435 (ISO) » Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:38 pm

Post by CheekyTeeky »

It's funny that Ceejay scumreads me now. Some reasons please sir?
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Post Post #436 (ISO) » Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:39 pm

Post by ceejayvinoya »

I don't scumread you, I nullread you.
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Post Post #437 (ISO) » Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:42 pm

Post by CheekyTeeky »

How can you nullread me? Also how do you only have 1 scumread again?
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Post Post #438 (ISO) » Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:44 pm

Post by ceejayvinoya »

@CT I'm curious, what are those read progressions for? What does that tell us?
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Post Post #439 (ISO) » Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:45 pm

Post by Skygazer »

is cj at l-1?

I want my vote there
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Post Post #440 (ISO) » Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:47 pm

Post by CheekyTeeky »

In post 438, ceejayvinoya wrote:@CT I'm curious, what are those read progressions for? What does that tell us?
I put them together to sort the wagon...my conclusion is after them.

VOTE: Ceejayvinoya
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Post Post #441 (ISO) » Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:48 pm

Post by CheekyTeeky »

In post 439, Skygazer wrote:is cj at l-1?

I want my vote there
Uh I hope not lol
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Post Post #442 (ISO) » Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:50 pm

Post by ceejayvinoya »

In post 440, CheekyTeeky wrote:
In post 438, ceejayvinoya wrote:@CT I'm curious, what are those read progressions for? What does that tell us?
I put them together to sort the wagon...my conclusion is after them.

VOTE: Ceejayvinoya
It's funny that you once townread me, and at post 422 too. VOTE: Cheeky
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Post Post #443 (ISO) » Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:51 pm

Post by CheekyTeeky »

Actually going back I think it's:

Haylen - notnova, reundo, volxen, ceejay L-1
Ceejay - Thor, CT

But uh don't quote me on it I am prone to mistakes.
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Post Post #444 (ISO) » Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:52 pm

Post by ceejayvinoya »

In post 439, Skygazer wrote:is cj at l-1?

I want my vote there
Uh if I recall correctly, your read on me is that I'm not town enough to be town?

Pedit I haven't voted Haylen yet
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Post Post #445 (ISO) » Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:52 pm

Post by CheekyTeeky »

In post 442, ceejayvinoya wrote:
In post 440, CheekyTeeky wrote:
In post 438, ceejayvinoya wrote:@CT I'm curious, what are those read progressions for? What does that tell us?
I put them together to sort the wagon...my conclusion is after them.

VOTE: Ceejayvinoya
It's funny that you once townread me, and at post 422 too. VOTE: Cheeky
So you're voting me for changing my mind?
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Post Post #446 (ISO) » Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:54 pm

Post by ceejayvinoya »

I just don't understand your progression, is all
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Post Post #447 (ISO) » Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:55 pm

Post by ceejayvinoya »

Are you voting me because I look dum or something
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Post Post #448 (ISO) » Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:55 pm

Post by ceejayvinoya »

Like the only thing I can pull from your posts right now about me is that my tunnel on volx make me look bad?
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Post Post #449 (ISO) » Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:00 pm

Post by CheekyTeeky »

In post 448, ceejayvinoya wrote:Like the only thing I can pull from your posts right now about me is that my tunnel on volx make me look bad?
Your reads in general look bad. You're tunneling one scumread after the other who happens to be the biggest wagon. That doesn't feel like genuine town paranoia to me but opportunistic voting. You haven't even tried to sort others outside of volxen. I know you're not new so I expect a better town game from you. At first skim your thoughts seem towny but I could be confusing that with LAMIST behaviour since your reads seem too static to be town.

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