Open 736: Diffusion of Power - Game Over

[PenguinPower]

Why is Bu scum?

[implosion]

I think his walking back from it is scummy.

What's his motivation for the big THIS IS A LIE post that draws attention to him and gives you an easy riposte if he's scum?

[PenguinPower]

Thought he could use it as a vehicle to get a wagon on me going but walked it back when he realized it wasn't true.

[Spooghetioso]

okay thank you BuJaber

[BuJaber]

Could be good for both of us in future games.

Seems more good for you than for me~

Gamma's town though, idk why penguin thinks that calling someone a LIAR is scummy.

Are you sure about that?
Upgrading your scum-o-meter is good for you always.
Me learning how to avoid getting scumread by you is only useful in specific scenarios.

[implosion]

I don't agree with PP I think this is actually more indicative of town!NM. Not that I'm super confident of that.

Creature is probably town. Likely skitter and spaghetti also. I am holding off on townreading A50 for now.

Sorry I didn't post earlier I forgot this game already started. I haven't memorized the name/number yet.

I don't like carcalilly's start but then again it seems very ballsy as scum. But having an issue with the implosion votes was really odd.
VOTE: carcalilly

Wishy-washy as hell, in a bad way (actively leaving himself room to flip).
Follows consensus townreads, but says he is "holding off townreading A50" as though the consensus is right about him, but he doesn't want to admit that yet.
Carcalilly's start is scummy but then again it isn't but then again it is. He's scum who wants to call someone scum without drawing that person's ire.
The NM townread also reads poorly, like he wants it to be known that he's going against someone else's opinion and is having original thoughts.

Yeah I think gamma is town. Scum maybe trying to set him up as today's lynch pool. Seems like a stupid fight to pick with PP as scum and also it doesn't feel fake to me.

This line just pings me in so many ways.
"Yeah I think gamma is town" just feels like quintessential scum phrasing.
"Scum maybe trying to set him up as today's lynch pool" is a ridiculous thing to say and as far as I can tell makes literally no sense unless both me and Penguin are scum. Scum don't pick a person on page 8 and say "you know, let's make sure *this* person is in the lynch pool" in a coordinated way, that just isn't how the game of mafia is usually played in practice, and I find it hard to believe that this is a thought that BuJaber genuinely had about the state of the game. Even if he thinks it was only one of us it's just overwrought.

[implosion]

Could be good for both of us in future games.

Seems more good for you than for me~

Gamma's town though, idk why penguin thinks that calling someone a LIAR is scummy.

Are you sure about that?
Upgrading your scum-o-meter is good for you always.
Me learning how to avoid getting scumread by you is only useful in specific scenarios.

It's not upgrading my scum-o-meter to reveal things that are already correct

[skitter30]

I don't like carcalilly's start

but then again it seems very ballsy as scum

. But having an issue with the implosion votes was really odd.
VOTE: carcalilly

i don't get why you're voting her

==

I would vote you again if I could

is this a serious vote?

==

Yeah I think gamma is town.

Scum maybe trying to set him up as today's lynch pool.

Seems like a stupid fight to pick with PP as scum and also it doesn't feel fake to me.

Scum pool: {implosion, carcalily, PP, hanshen, cmod, enigma} + A50 is a maybe.

who's doing this?

==

the search results were confusing and i did not understand them

also the pokemon does not seem nice and why can we not vote dr monkey i mean i like dr monkey but i will still have to vote them if they are mafia

okay why is the penguin voting me i have not done anything

can you refer to people by their names?

basically this is like the seventh(?) (completed) game i've played with a50 and i've read him correctly in all of them except for the first one and the one where we partners together

(i'm ignoring the game i played with him an alt that i didn't know was him)

==

a50 you're really tempting me to vote you instead of more-or-less claimed scum. Can you not do that.

why is bujaber more-or-less claimed scum?

==

I actually wanted to have some fun voting the newbie but I've never seen N_M say this much at all in any game I've played with him....ever.

VOTE: N_M

Not moving this vote all game until N_M is lynched.

T H I S. I S. A. L I E.
VOTE: PenguinPower

i think this is kinda townie for how self-righteous/outraged he is and like how ... proud (is that the right word?) at having caught pp in what he believes to be a lie

it isn't a lie imo; i think the two of you are remembering the same event differently in some way and/or read the same sentence differently (pp says he never saw nm post this much; gamma says he did in that game but pp says it wasn't in the beginning of the game so the scenario is different; you're defining what 'active' means differently)

==

reminder for self to say things at some later point in time

p-edit: i didn't read those post from implosion yet

[implosion]

Thought he could use it as a vehicle to get a wagon on me going but walked it back when he realized it wasn't true.

So I think this is just not especially plausible. I kind of don't think that scum ever genuinely think that they've caught a townie in a lie. If I'm Gamma and I'm scum and I see that you scumread NM here for activity when you've seen him be this active as town, I'm definitely going to point out the contradiction and maybe push you for it, but I don't think I'm going to allcaps accuse you of lying. I think if I'm scum in that situation I'd be expecting you to have some reasonable reaction, since I'd know that you're town, and so I wouldn't expect it to be a free wagon.

Though Gamma could just have a different personality in that way, in theory.

[skitter30]

oh cool implosion picked up on the same things i did

let's see what happens if i do this

VOTE: bujaber

[implosion]

i think this is kinda townie for how self-righteous/outraged he is and like how ... proud (is that the right word?) at having caught pp in what he believes to be a lie

it isn't a lie imo; i think the two of you are remembering the same event differently in some way and/or read the same sentence differently (pp says he never saw nm post this much; gamma says he did in that game but pp says it wasn't in the beginning of the game so the scenario is different; you're defining what 'active' means differently)

Yeah pretty much this.

[Not_Mafia]

Lynch Penguin

[Almost50]

What is dual tunneling mode? Does implosion do that a lot?

NVM that. It was reference to the Gamma=PP relation in which both appear to be tunneling each other.

[BuJaber]

Thought he could use it as a vehicle to get a wagon on me going but walked it back when he realized it wasn't true.

This does make sense but I'm not sure it applies to someone like gamma. I could be wrong but I just don't see him going for something like that as scum.

Not to mention that whether or not your statement is accurate your push on NM feels scummy and opportunistic to me, and I'd laugh if this was some sort of attempt at SvS distancing because it's quite clever in a silly/reckless way. But basically gamma is more likely to flip town than you.

[PenguinPower]

Thought he could use it as a vehicle to get a wagon on me going but walked it back when he realized it wasn't true.

So I think this is just not especially plausible. I kind of don't think that scum ever genuinely think that they've caught a townie in a lie. If I'm Gamma and I'm scum and I see that you scumread NM here for activity when you've seen him be this active as town, I'm definitely going to point out the contradiction and maybe push you for it, but I don't think I'm going to allcaps accuse you of lying. I think if I'm scum in that situation I'd be expecting you to have some reasonable reaction, since I'd know that you're town, and so I wouldn't expect it to be a free wagon.

Though Gamma could just have a different personality in that way, in theory.

It's kinda cute you equate Gamma's skill and foresight to you.

Wrong...but cute.

[PenguinPower]

Not to mention that whether or not your statement is accurate your push on NM feels scummy and opportunistic to me, and I'd laugh if this was some sort of attempt at SvS distancing because it's quite clever in a silly/reckless way.

How was my "push" scummy and opportunistic when I am the only vote on him?

[BuJaber]

who's doing this?

Implosion and PP

And I'm voting carcalilly because she discouraged the implosion votes. Wasn't clear why. It's anti-progress at best (those votes help move the game forward and there was no reason to townread implosion at that point even if she didn't scumread him) but more likely she's scum whiteknighting or defending a buddy. It's still ballsy though which makes me hesitate a little bit.

[BuJaber]

Not to mention that whether or not your statement is accurate your push on NM feels scummy and opportunistic to me, and I'd laugh if this was some sort of attempt at SvS distancing because it's quite clever in a silly/reckless way.

How was my "push" scummy and opportunistic when I am the only vote on him?

Is there a minimum number of votes needed for a wagon to be opportunistic? NM is a somewhat easy target. There's no good way to defend him.

Can any of us point to one of his posts and say 'here you go.. obvtown'? No. Does that mean he's scum? No.

And any case that talks about relative activity levels is subjective. It's hard to prove or disprove it. That's why it's pretty perfect for a scum case.

For example I generally post quite frequently as town. But it's not easily measurable like x posts per page or something. So if some player says 'Buj is posting less than he normally does' and another player disagrees it's hard to say who is right. Even if we did have a clear criterium for determining which is correct, would that tell you my alignment for sure? No because there'd be many factors that could affect my postcount.

So here it's hard to prove you wrong and you might from your POV genuinenly believe he's playing differently to his town meta BUT at the same time the fact that it's basically a gut-based case and one that is difficult to prove AND it's on a generally unreadable player like NM makes it an easy case for scum to push.

[Carcalilly]

Yeah I think gamma is town. Scum maybe trying to set him up as today's lynch pool. Seems like a stupid fight to pick with PP as scum and also it doesn't feel fake to me.

Scum pool: {implosion, carcalily, PP, hanshen, cmod, enigma} + A50 is a maybe.

This guy is town

[Carcalilly]

i do know not mafia names now but i dont want to use it because it is confusing with town and mafia roles

Use people's usernames. The milktank is NM for "Not_Mafia", I'm Carcalilly, you're Spooghetioso

[skitter30]

@bujaber: so implosion is townreading gamma; i don't think he's setting him up to being mislynched; you saying that kinda reads like you're trying to cast doubt on general pool of people scumreading gamma

what's bothering me about your carca vote is that you called it ballsy for scum to do and then voted her anyways; it also feels kinda incongruous to me

==

implosion i'm tending towards town on you although i'm a little hesitant to flat out townread you at this time

instead of just reading your posts and going 'oh yeah this makes sense' it's more like you're coming to the same conclusions as me at like the same time; you picked up on what was bothering me about bujaber and also for how you read gamma

[BuJaber]

bujaber: so implosion is townreading gamma; i don't think he's setting him up to being mislynched;

This only became clear like on this page or something when he disagreed with PP.

Earlier he was voting him. And then when questioned said it was a reaction test.

I have doubts.

[BuJaber]

what's bothering me about your carca vote is that you called it ballsy for scum to do and then voted her anyways; it also feels kinda incongruous to me

I like to do that when it's someone I both scumread but also have reason(s) to tonwread. A solid scumread would trump it, I just don't have one of those yet.

It's different to a pure nullread, where I don't normally think voting them would make reading them any easier.

[Not_Mafia]

Not to mention that whether or not your statement is accurate your push on NM feels scummy and opportunistic to me, and I'd laugh if this was some sort of attempt at SvS distancing because it's quite clever in a silly/reckless way.

How was my "push" scummy and opportunistic when I am the only vote on him?

Because it’s meeeee

[Gamma Emerald]

Those look very similar tbh. Are you seriously going to get into a fight over nitpicks?

Considering the accusation of lying (meaning I was deliberately intent on deceiving), bolding and spacing of letters, and the vote....yes.

Disagree it's a nitpick though. They are fundamentally different.

Technically he didn't call you a liar. he just said what you said was a lie.

Like, if I told you I have a dinosaur in my backyard I'd be lying, but if I said skitter does I'd probably be spreading a lie she told me but I'm not necessarily lying myself because maybe I believe her.

But then you did say

you

never saw BN_M this active, so you were reporting for yourself, so maybe he did call you a liar??

But then maybe you just forgot, so it wasn't an actual lie, bur rather a memory slip, so maybe he's not calling you a liar after all.

How's that for a silly conversation??

i was talking to dr monkey Creature and i mean the other pokemon and not you

also yes he is

also who is bn_m you mean n_m or miltank or does the b mean something?

okay i am voting for the black pokemon

Who’s the black Pokémon
And you don’t have a vote out rn