Mini 2014: Succinct Mafia (Over)

[Dunnstral]

Me, kind of

[Dunnstral]

By default, no day deadline is featured. If half of players living (rounded down) request it, a one week deadline is implemented. Deadline uses Plurality Lynch rules.

Deadlines are pro-town, contrary to what might be assumed. With no deadlines there's no sense of urgency and the game can stall and be filled with apathy. In practice, lynches that are rushed due to deadline give good vca and has a decent chance of hitting scum. With plurality rules, there will always be a lynch even if people are away at end of day. That's my argument for voting deadlines in.

[Dunnstral]

Dunn are you town?

Yes

[Dunnstral]

I am a bit diasppointed I didnt draw scum this game as it would be fun given the rules

Are you saying the limited posting rules helps scum?

[Dunnstral]

So would people vote in deadline or no?

Momrangel, what does post 93 mean?

VOTE: Wisdom

[Dunnstral]

So would people vote in deadline or no?

Momrangel, what does post 93 mean?

VOTE: Wisdom

Mmmm...

That's probably a bad vote but what do I know?

Also it means fits reads are bad which isn't entirely surprising but what is, is the fact that he is not really even hunting.

What do you think of the interaction between wiz/evee and then me/wis? Think any could be svs even this early on?

Also! Regarding deadline, not sure we should implement one here right off the bat. Due to the nature of this game it could lead us to a nolynch.


Let's all discuss?

Also just a few more posts till a new page I want to talk to wis and want to hear his thoughts on this

The deadline actually uses plurality rules, which means whoever has the most votes at deadline is lynched - so no nolynch

I don't like looking for svs interactions vs singular reads this early but I'll take a look at them
I think

[Dunnstral]

^that posted early

I think eevee has a lot of fluffy posts, these posts:

If i voted for someone it would probably be havingfitz cause his only post is a rvs with nothing really about it

Yeah this is a neat restriction though. Really makes people play differently when they cant get into a good 1v1 argument

strike me as trying to look like they're doing something - you asked me about an interaction with wisdom though, assuming around post 57, I don't think it makes them more likely svs or tvs or tvt, or at least it's dangerous to get caught up in reads like that IMO (Wisdom looks scummy here though)

so surprising
do you ever begin a game with me without voting me

If Wisdom is scum I'd be less inclined to think of you as mafia for this though

[Dunnstral]

Wait dunn are you saying im the only one with fluffy posts? (Also your first example isn't really fluffy?_?)

Well your iso stood out to me as a step beyond that I guess 0- those 2 quotes aren't examples of your fluffy posts, but of whatever i said after, your whole iso seemed fluffy, first quote was a read that felt weird

VOTE: wisdon

I think he tried to vote me to soft push and contradicted himself in the process

Going to disagree, I've actually changed my mind about Wisdom

VOTE: Havingfitz

[Dunnstral]

actually right now I'm at {fitz, Kokichi, fuzzy}

This is a cop-out reads list made of easily to scumreads slots

Tell me more what you think about pine

I think this comes from town

I disagree with the sentiment though

Initial thought is Wisdom is scum and those slots are town except one OR momrangal is scum afraid of Wisdom. Leaning former

OK, why?

[Dunnstral]

I don't feel like your questions and statements have any real purpose.

What about:

Kokichi so you're deadset on wisdom?

A few posts before you?

With that said, I'm on board for that

VOTE: EeveeLution Army

[Dunnstral]

Clear difference in tone between that question and 90% of Wisdom's.

1) That's not what you said. You didn't say Wisdom had bad tone, you said he was posting bad questions

2) I don't know what you're talkng about, he asks a random question that is basically answered in the thread and then moves on to something else

[Dunnstral]

@ Dunn, wrt 140...why are you voting me?

Just saw this - with the wisdom + you conversation going on I didn't really scumread Wisdom anymore (who I was voting) and you looked worse to me in your interaction with him, plus I was kind of following along with wisdom's push on you at the time

[Dunnstral]

Going to agree with that's not lining up lynches

[Dunnstral]

To an extent i actually dont think fuzzy is scum.

Not really a loaded question if you see he said this

[Dunnstral]

Who is the scum that is running you up?

Why is Pine's read on Math weird because of Math's read on you? What is the connection?

[Dunnstral]

tbhj just flipping SOMEONE will help here, game is so dead

I mean, I argued for deadline in pre-game but it never took off

In fact, I'm guessing one scum each on either CW.

Fitz is a CW, so he's prob Town. Wis is Town this game.

{Fuzzy, Dunn, Mom}?

This is reaching and you don't really explain how you get these reads

If fuzzy flips or Eeve flips town, there has to be at least one scum in each of their wagons.


TheFuzzyLogic99 - 4 (LuckyOtter, MathBlade, Pine, Kokichi Oma)
EeveeLution Army - 3 (SirCakez, Dunnstral, havingfitz)

This is looking bad too - why does there have to be one scum on each wagon? Explain it like I'm 5, please.

[Dunnstral]

You conjured up a scumteam of 3 using no associatives, just "scum are on different wagons"

[Dunnstral]

Besides, I don't do that even when I am scum...it's way more efficient and stealthy to latch on to weak Townies than go the hard route of inventing deduction.

PE: Associatives are completely unnecessary.

I mean, I could see that happening with Fuzzy here anyway, especially since he doesn't seem to fight back against anything

You could also be bussing while stirring something up to get the votes to change

I don't think your deduction was anything above random chance and you pushing the angle of striking a nerve with me shows you don't have a real argument to push your theory through

[Dunnstral]

Your explanation on why Mom was scum and Dunn was not was pretty weak and also based on the flimsly premise of scum being on both counter wagons of mine.

Pretty sure he called me scum though?

[Dunnstral]

vote for deadline

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Pine

[Dunnstral]

2. Earlier in the game I'd disagree with this, but given the state of the game now, this is correct. Just sticking a single vote on someone when there are 2 or 3 other wagons going, the proponents of which aren't budging very much, is not going to go anywhere and Eevee must know this.
If Eevee actually proposed any kind of case for pushing Pine, I'd feel better about it.

Seems like a scum on scum interaction to me - eevee with pine

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: EeveeLution Army

[Dunnstral]

I'll 1v1 you tomorrow then

VOTE: Fuzzy

fake

[Dunnstral]

Honestly i dont like the composition of either EA's or my wagon. I am 99.9 percent sure scum is on my wagon and there very likley scum on EAs

Vote somebody

[Dunnstral]

Sircakez feels like scum to me right now. Especially 525 gives me bad feels.

These triple dueling wagons have been the same for about a week now and nothing is changing, I'm moving over onto havingfitz

VOTE: havingfitz

I get the feeling that Fuzzy is town, also I don't like seeing pine and sircakez on there

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: FuzzyLogic99

Fitz wagon feels wrong

[Dunnstral]

Move back to Fuzzy

[Dunnstral]

He's either scum or he gets roleblocked and never confirmed role

I don't know why he would self vote if he was cop though

[Dunnstral]

just in case I am really the cop

This feels like a slip to me

[Dunnstral]

Who gives me their vote tomorrow when this flips green? Just need one.

I missed it

unvote, vote: fitz

This is weird

[Dunnstral]

First quote is talking about Fitz flipping green with some confidence

Wouldn't expect him to just hop on fitz after fuzzy's claim like that, vs someone like eevee who is still a viable lynch with a little bit of effort

[Dunnstral]

There's no nl in this game, it goes to plurality lynch

[Dunnstral]

iCk

VOTE: Eeveelution

This is still my scumread, I've noted that they were on a wagon by themself at day end which is scummy in my eyes

[Dunnstral]

Magna slot was voting Fuzzy though

[Dunnstral]

I still feel like pine is scum but im unsure on if anyone would go along with it....but tbh the fact mom died makes me less confident in it.

What's the connection between momrangel's death and Pine?

[Dunnstral]

1) cause honestly i dont see why mom got killed at all

Why does that mean it wasn't pine specifically?

Weird that you said this but now can't back it up or even explain your thought process here

[Dunnstral]

Huh actually i take back that post 410 gives an interaction though minor its nice to know they did have an interaction

So you didn't think Pine and Momrangel had any interactions, but thought Momrangel dying meant Pine was town?

[Dunnstral]

ew ^

[Dunnstral]

Go back to bussing eevee

[Dunnstral]

And I'm not getting lynched today but if you want to push me instead of more hot topics I understand

[Dunnstral]

You already broke a rule

Don't post 3 times in a row, don't post more than 4 times in a page

[Dunnstral]

I vote for deadline

[Dunnstral]

Could lynch Eevee for lack of a reason not to

I mean, if you really scumread me then you'd probably think twice about this at the very least

[Dunnstral]

That post is all kinds of scummy, actually

[Dunnstral]

...what? So your planning for that one post to represent your reads completely?
Also how can someone just be "easy to tr" I've only ever seen that in relation to not wanting to push someone because they are better at the game than you

not wanting to push someone because they are better than you is NAI and people who use that are wrong

that one post doesnt sum up all my reads, but you asked me about why pine is town, people asked me about why you are scum
and ive already made a post about both of those

I don't understand what this post is saying

who doesn't want to push someone "because they are better than you"?

Actually, this is pretty low priority, I don't really care, I just don't get it

[Dunnstral]

I'm confused about what the timestamp link is supposed to be showing me

[Dunnstral]

@Dunnstral

Yesterday in 589 you moved your vote to TheFuzzylogic99, saying only "Fitz wagon feels wrong." Can you recall what felt wrong about it? Was this something about Fitz or something about the makeup the wagon? In particular, what changed your feelings between 542 and that post?

If it helps jog your memory, immediately before you moved your vote the VC would have been as follows.

havingfitz:

Momrangal, Wisdom, ArcAngel9, Dunnstral, Kokichi Oma (L-2)

TheFuzzylogic99:

LuckyOtter, MathBlade, SirCakez, Pine (L-3)

EeveeLution Army:

havingfitz, Hiraki (L-5)

Pine:

EeveeLution Army (L-6)

SirCakez:

TheFuzzylogic99 (L-6)

I was primarily voting eevee yesterday, I moved to havingfitz when it was clear my wagon wasn't happening with deadline coming up. I think Kokichi jumped on then fuzzy moved on without a word and something told me it was a wagon to save fuzzy, like I said it felt wrong so I moved to Fuzzy

[Dunnstral]

What do you need of me

[Dunnstral]

Pine you need to get on eevee

[Dunnstral]

Pine you need to get on eevee

I don't vote for people I think are Town, and I don't appreciate the implied threat there.

intent

[Dunnstral]

well, to more accurately describe it, i forgot about the posting part because i was reading posts

What have you determined from all that reading?

that im completely outclassed in scumreading capability


i might as well poe if i only have one sr

town:
pine, wisdom, lucky, umlaut, hiraki, trinity, arc?,

mafia (w/o poe):
eevee

poe:
dunns, math

I've been on eevee all game

[Dunnstral]

I'm the doctor. Back off

Now stop with the counter wagons and get on eevee

[Dunnstral]

Scum!Trinity has no idea whether my case looks towny or not.

I don't understand where you're going with this one, how does him being town let him know if your case looks towny vs him being scum

[Dunnstral]

We already lost cop docs dead tonight either way might as well lynch him ourselves.

Uh, that's not how it works.

Why would we lynch the doc just because he is getting night killed? Literally wasting a lynch and doing mafs job for them

[Dunnstral]

Eevee: Doctor has nothing to protect and is a useless role now

Also Eevee: But

real

doc shouldn't claim and we should lynch the only doctor claim

[Dunnstral]

UNVOTE:

OK, Pine, who did you protect?

Eevee, why did you pick Wisdom? Why did you wait until you were being wagoned to claim jailkeeper today?

[Dunnstral]

haven't slept in like 20 hours and realized it's 500 words instead of characters wow i might be slurred

so i don't think otter and cakez are partners because of how cakez has been talking to him. wagonomics around page 8 also make little sense for an independently scum otter, because TFL-Mom are two helpful flips here that simplifies the problem (no bussing). basically otter had options and went for TFL, who was supreme lynchbait while fitz-wisdom were the biggest wagons (and i don't think all three of them are buds)

hiraki might be town for voting wisdom, basically momrangal nailed it when she insinuated his reads were too easy. meanwhile, i hated mathblade's binary logic upon their replace in. wisdom is a tunnelfuck, and letting him be an unproductive tunnelfuck is a self resolving matter, because town!wisdom would eventually grow a clue, so hitting his blind spots of reads (cakez, mom, eevee) really only distracts from fitz.

of the two i'd more trust a townread on wisdom. my beef with wisdom is how he's a tunnelfuck and tries to have a moment of lucidity by prompting hiraki for a read on fitz. upon getting a townread response he proceeds to do absolutely nothing with that information and laments that fitz is simply scummier than everyone else (

narrator: he wasn't

). fitz could be town too, but his townreads in 242 suck. for instance, dunnstral refused to share with the class why in 140 wisdom is suddenly looking better (hi this could help the town at this point). cakez tr. math tr. gerry's wisdom tussle (no reason vs. "better vote") was inaccurate, beyond that gerry was farting around.

i hated mathblade slot since brie, mainly for her hiraki unvote, to shading gerryx3 (and encouraging pine's SR of him), and by the time she puts attention on eevee, her vote is STILL better placed on gerry, not that she ever voted before replacing out. brie was helpful w/ eevee RVS, but brie has several opportunities to make good votes, and chose not to.

so

1 of pine or eevee scum (foregone)
cakezscum
mathblade scum with eevee makes sense based pred?

pine flipping scum would make pg1-pg2 wagons interesting:

TFL voters: Pine, Wisdom, Otter
Pine voters: Cakez, Fitz

AA Voters: Wisdom, Hiraki
Anti-AA Voters: AA (Wisdom), Pine (shades Hiraki), Cakez (Hiraki), Wisdom (Hiraki), Momrangal (Wisdom), Gerry (novote), Brie (Hiraki)

fitz is super cool happy to sit on pine, fight with wisdom and squat on momrangal. pine and otter can't get enough of town booty for the foreseeable future. pine wagon collapses as cakez jumps off onto hiraki after pine makes AA's wagon less attractive.

don't have much to say about pine, i noticed that he promoted TFL parallel to fitz while cakez utterly refused to push fitz despite voting him, and talked otter down from TFL at least twice. pine never once seemed to give a shit.

i've got nothing on eevee besides lack of rvs

1) I don't really remember what I was thinking in 140, it was 45 days ago now...

2) Who's gerry?

3) I thought something was off with Cakez but then he replaced out and I haven't really looked at his successor

[Dunnstral]

[*]

Dunnstral:

Unlikely based on 1030 alone: it seems to slip that Dunn didn't pay close attention to Pine's posts and really didn't know what he would answer, both of which are unlikely between scumbuddies who would have used daytalk to plan this move in advance. It's a fairly subtle slip that I don't believe scum would think to fake. I actually had Dunn at "plausible" before noticing this.

1030 is the wrong post, which post did you mean?

[Dunnstral]

Eevee's seems more plausible and I don't see Eevee making that counter as scum at that moment.

Are you forgetting that eevee was being run up to be lynched when he claimed that

[Dunnstral]

Eevee said they claimed because they "didn't think town was going to lynch pine"

Now they're talking about claiming while afraid of dying and the votes on them not showing if they're scum

Also like I said they were probably the lynch without that claim - I think they're scum who afraid of being lynched once their target claimed doctor decided to counterclaim and then push theory as for why their claim makes sense

VOTE: EeveelutionArmy

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Pine

First

[Dunnstral]

I'm ready to go to the next day,

LuckyOtter what do you think of Umlaut dying?

[Dunnstral]

What don't you understand Hiraki? Eevee was my biggest scumread and Pine was my second

[Dunnstral]

Dunn, what are your reads?

I guess I can see jingle as mafia. Hiraki looks bad with his push on me this page (I think it's a little hard to believe what he's saying)

[Dunnstral]

2) Correct, as a goon who didn't care and saw the opportunity. This isn't really a huge chess move.

But apparently he couldn't read the mafia chat and his scum partner was guiding him in the main thread?

[Dunnstral]

Oh, add Lycanfire to my scumreads. My experience is that he has a lot to say as town.

[Dunnstral]

I intend to selfvote

...why?

[Dunnstral]

"Word counter website"
Is that what we call the scum pt

Not really, unless it is really

Anyway we got Lycan's reaction we are good to go

VOTE: Jingle

[Dunnstral]

You strike me as the type of guy to actually use a word counter website

[Dunnstral]

1226 is so low res that I can't tell wh at's going on, but maybe that's the point

[Dunnstral]

Well, I'm not touching Lycanfire.

Good for you.

It’s Trinity or you so if you’re scum thanks for saying who you’ll never vote so if you get taken to lylo with Lycanfire not voting the other person would be a scum claim.

If you’re scum you’ve relinquished control of the board unless you nightkill Lycanfire which means that you me Dunn endgame in that case in which you just die because Dunn can’t be scum.

So that’s a very bad move if you’re scum.

@Dunn thoughts?

Well I think someone brought up yesterday that deadline would be paused at night if Trinity wasn't picked?

I'll have to reread interactions but I think I remember that Hiraki looks bad with these flips

[Dunnstral]

Which part?

[Dunnstral]

I worded that weird

I meant if Trinity wasn't here the night would be paused

[Dunnstral]

Well, I'm not touching Lycanfire.

Why not?

i think he's the most town here?

Really? Because before he posted the above 2 I've been feeling he's been pretty lacking in the thread compared to what I'm used to (which is giant analysis of the game like the posts above)

Lycan, am i correct in saying that you've never given a read on me? It looks like you're just saying I

could

be scum with pine without really giving an opinion and I'm wondering what the motivation there is. Similarly, would you lynch Hiraki, or would you not?

[Dunnstral]

For context I disagree when you say Mathblade looks like the last scum

I was thinking Hiraki with off chance at trinity with you being the question mark

[Dunnstral]

the game integrity has been compromised and i'll be marking this game as a win.

It shows up as 503 for me

[Dunnstral]

All this talk is telling me that my Dunn read is spot on but it'll never end in a town win at this rate

Your theory is that I'm scum who was talking in the main thread instead of the scum thread, right?

How does the other talk do anything for you

[Dunnstral]

Meh, is it just hiraki?

[Dunnstral]

For context I disagree when you say Mathblade looks like the last scum

I was thinking Hiraki with off chance at trinity with you being the question mark

Why do you think Hiraki? I’m open to being convinced.

Math looks like town, Lycan slot looks like town, I think Hiraki is more likely than you and has bad interactions with the scum

[Dunnstral]

What doesn’t make sense to me, Dunn, is why you told Pine he ‘needed’ to get on Eevee?

Wasn't the gamestate like pine vs eevee wagons at the time?

He needed to be on eevee or he was being lynched instead - I think that's what I meant

[Dunnstral]

I keep forgetting this game is a thing

I'm voting Hiraki, do other people think something else is going to happen?

[Dunnstral]

Vote: Deadline

[Dunnstral]

I'm voting Hiraki

Apparently I'm not, here's the hammer

VOTE: Hiraki

[Dunnstral]

I'm leaning Hiraki and I'm wondering why they're jumping at me

[Dunnstral]

*Trinity ^

[Dunnstral]

Do I need to :EFFORT:

I mean you can look at the night kill if you want

Who is more likely to nightkill mathblade when his stances yesterday was "Never lynch Dunn, mafia have to kill one of us, also Trinity is the last scum"

In before "it's wifom" - but mathblade wasn't confirmed town or anything

Only thing that gives me pause is that I could see you killing mathblade or anyone but trinity without affecting how you play this day out

I'm at like 80:20 right now for it being trinity

[Dunnstral]

What do you need to read through? I thought you thought it was Trinity at day start

[Dunnstral]

I actually forgot about this game, yes

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: TrinityNZ

This is who I believe is scum, I'll take the leap

[Dunnstral]

Trinity's read on me changed after the other scum died, and not because of interactions or anything, he latched on to what other people said and went from saying "hiraki needs to die" to "hiraki and Dunn need to die" for this 3p, also Math was never voting me so I maintain that I would've killed ank or something rather than wifom around