Newbie 1888 | Stuff I Found Online IV | Over

[the worst]

yeah there was exactly no choice for scum!xx but to hammer that

[Plotinus]

Official Vote Count 3.05

Spelling is hard.

More shitty cakes at CakeWrecks

---

Lynching

With 5 votes in play, it takes 3 to lynch.

Not Known 15

(3): RadiantCowbells, the worst, xx2008

<-- LYNCH

xx2008

(1): Hugo Stiglitz

RadiantCowbells

(1): Not Known 15

Not Voting

(0):

None.

Deadline:

(expired on 2018-09-28 09:00:00).

Mod notes:

A win condition has been achieved!

[Plotinus]

Day 3 Lynch - Not Known 15

How to pick up a cat so the cat will be comfortable and not hate you.

---

Not Known 15 has been lynched day 3. They were a

vanilla townie

. The scum team of

xx2008, mafia goon

and

RadiantCowbells, mafia goon

have won Newbie 1888 | Stuff I found online IV! Congratulations!

[/area]

[Plotinus]

Events

day 1

• Mister Rogers
  is lynched with 2 scum on his wagon.

night 1

• volxen
  is copping
  Formerfish
  (town).
  
• xx2008
  is killing
  Formerfish
  . (dies)

day 2

• Draynth
  is lynched with 2 scum on his wagon.

night 2

• volxen
  is copping
  Hugo Stiglitz
  . (town)
  
• xx2008
  is killing
  volxen
  . (dies)

day 3

• Not Known 15
  is lynched with 2 scum on their wagon.

Links

Links

• Public thread
  
• Mod PT
  
• Mafia PT (will be released in (expired on 2018-09-25 09:00:00) or sooner if the mafia team agree they don't want anything redacted)
  
• IC Confessional PT
  
• Dead thread

[Plotinus]

This thread is now open for post game discussion. You can talk here even if you were dead and even if you didn't play. Thank you for playing and/or spectating. If you found this game enjoyable, you should consider signing up for another newbie game or a game outside of the newbie queue. Many people start with opens or normals but themes are fun too.

[RadiantCowbells]

Btw volxen scum, even newb scum, call each other scum a LOT. Locking the scum as me/xx2008 because Xx2008 townread my slot may have been correct in this case but it doesn't mean it's correct in general.

[the worst]

NOT AGAINNNNNNNNNN

I'm really sorry for how bad I was that game. hopefully you all learned a fair bit at least.

seriously well played xx2008 and RC and.... also what the hell was that Inferno for your first scum rand that was badass!

Hugo, you did a fantastic job of looking towny as hell too. I actually feel even worse for getting you mislynched in our last game together. I hope you do decide to stick around tho, I think your game is definitely improving.


will be standing at the front of the thread for rotten fruit to be thrown for the next 48 hours

[RadiantCowbells]

Mister Rogers, your posts were a pleasure to read even if you were wrong and I'm sorry you got mislynched D1. I thought that you were pretty obviously townie but obviously my perspective was informed, etc.
WP catching the scumteam NK15, but I think that you were generally scummy and easily mislynchable as a result and it's something that you should try to work on in the future.

Also I read the game before I replaced in and I replaced in to figure out what Inferno was because I was like 'gut wise I feel like this dudes scum but I'm not sure I believe scum ever makes x posts' where x posts was the set of posts where told MR to back off because he was the SE and knew better. Given that he was scum it's fine imo, if he had said that as town it would have been really rankling.

Sorry town

[RadiantCowbells]

I think all 3 scum players pretty well open wolfed this game tbh until like the final stretch

[RadiantCowbells]

if anyone's interested in any individual advice from me lmk, otherwise our adorable as heck duck IC shall help you out!

[Not Known 15]

I think all 3 scum players pretty well open wolfed this game tbh until like the final stretch

Now I know what I forgot to do.
I should really have mentioned that if Hugo is town to duck, then all Mafia voted Town both times. Well, that's for next time. Well played. Including xx who managed to make me look scum with them.(note to xx: this could have backfired if volxen had investigated me, and people sometimes see this)

[Draynth]

Thanks for modding Plot!

[Not Known 15]

And a word of advice to Volxen: You really, REALLY should have made it clearer to us that TW was not copcleared, that you targeted dead town. If they were scum you would have handed us the loss.

[Plotinus]

How should volxen have done that while still keeping it a secret that they were the cop?

[Hugo Stiglitz]

Not once did I lynch a townie

[Not Known 15]

So Fish’s flip has

completely convinced

me that you are town and that my initial scumread of you was wrong.

This looks like a cop-clear.

[Not Known 15]

Not once did I lynch a townie

Actually, you indirectly lynched me by not voting to lynch RC when I voted them.
Your vote on xx was useless. xx was already confirmed scum to everyone.

[Hugo Stiglitz]

Not once did I lynch a townie

Actually, you indirectly lynched me by not voting to lynch RC when I voted them.
Your vote on xx was useless. xx was already confirmed scum to everyone.

So why didn't anyone vote the confirmed scum then?

[the worst]

Not once did I lynch a townie

Actually, you indirectly lynched me by not voting to lynch RC when I voted them.
Your vote on xx was useless. xx was already confirmed scum to everyone.

So why didn't anyone vote the confirmed scum then?

i'll own that one.
my vote switch to NK15 was probably a pretty bad move.

writing up a mini wall gimme a few more mins

[the worst]

phew alright got a bit of time

firstly -- huge thank you Plot for modding. I think I said a couple of times this series of newbie games has been amazing, I've loved the flavour & your modding aesthetic a lot. plus you were super super punctual and professional and responsive as well and the whole game flowed lovelyfully.

i'll throw some feedback from the top of the list down so it goes in increasing order of seriousness. honestly this is partially apologies. i hope i did an okay? job of ICing, but it was a kind of strange experience. the only newbies we had were Hugo and xx2008 and I think you guys both actually played really well, and you both felt ... fairly comfortable all things considered. I didn't feel like I had a lot of teaching work to do necessarily. if this was a failure by me to notice something please let me know. and any questions which are outstanding from the game, PLEASE PLEASE yell out. i'm super curious to read the scum PT once it's released myself!


i have a bit i kinda wanna say to like
most people this game
in descending order of playerlist (and therefore ascending order of seriousness!!), some general comments...

@the worst

Spoiler:

you're the worst

unironically though i'm actually really sorry for how underwhelming i was this game.
i think there was a voice in the back of my head telling me that MR was town (which is why the gamestate frustrated me so much!!) but it has genuinely taken me a good week of reflection to realise that I probably should have realised we were stuck in a TvT situation.

day 1 was such a mess, I can't blame any player who misread myself or MR. i really dislike having tunnelled reads / leading the town off a cliff, and i feel like i did it to a T this game.

this swings back to a comment i made on maybe d2 though...ICs are human as well. it's just a voluntary position, and there's an equal chance of me having an off game as anyone else having an off game. (ok maybe a little higher because i'm the worst lmao)

bit of a cliche, but the only true wincon is newbie games is to learn stuff and have fun. so i do really really hope everyone feels like they've learned stuff or have stuff they want to learn, and had a good time playing. if there's anything anyone wants to ask, once again just yell out.

@Draynth

Spoiler:

bro I'm really sorry about the mislynch. we were finally town together :'c
in hindsight I probably should've seen the motivation in RC lolhammering you leading up to you spewing content but I think there was a part of me that was looking for a wolf coasting thru day 1 and he was kinda right, you did fit the profile. there just wasn't enough content (and maybe not enough time) to correct that read.

@Inferno390/RC

Spoiler:

never roll scum against me again
either of you
>:[

@Formerfish

Spoiler:

it was totally great to meet you properly man, and the early-game mindmeld was a pleasure! it's been a long time since i've had such an organically strong townread on a player with a strong scumgame, so thanks for really genuinely powertowning this without an agenda. hopefully we can play again sometime soon.

@Hugo

Spoiler:

i definitely meant what i said through this game (and d3) in particular--like the town!Hugo I saw this game was exponentially groovier than the town!Hugo I scummed against only a couple of weeks ago. I totally understand your kind of discomfort with site culture and losing two games b2b might not help with that but I really sincerely hope that you feel like you've learned some stuff from these games, even if it's about cheeky scum shit to look out for (or mimic in the future ). it's really unfortunate that you've had a couple of opposing scum in a row who've just rolled through the towns, but there are definitely strong town players out there. these games do happen, but I can promise they don't happen 100% of the time.

i get the feeling you've kinda cognisant of what caused your mislynch last time, because those behaviours were missing from your play here. just stay engaged, keep talking people through what you're thinking and feeling, and even if it feels stupid throw your thoughts at the thread. be prepared to back them up but be bold, mafiascum games have plenty of time. if they're your own thoughts and you can show people how you had
them, it's pretty rare that there's a negative outcome.

like for example i was just flicking through the thread and spotted this

NOOOOOOOOOOO
my only solid town read!!! T_T

i had a feeling MR was gonna flip town but...no regrets (yes i know i wasn't on the train) - MR if you're reading this, sorry! your playstyle attacks the player instead of the slot it's not nice

and yes, xx, having two vanillas dead is way better than us LYNCHING THE TPR d1 like the last newbie game i was in -_- utterly devastating.
also, thank you mod!!! for the flavor. some of these things are incredibly badass.

ANYWAY. what does everyone think about the train on MR? i know 100% there was one scum on there, but i'm wonder if there was TWO..

some players would call it wolfy that you did the "NOOOO not my #1 townread!!" thing (in fact, inferno390 did!!) but i actually really liked the way you completely intuitively claimed your fair share of the blame. it's not a ~thing~ that's hard to fake as scum but there's something about your tonality in this post + this game in general which felt pretty natural. it's hard to bottle up. let me know if i sound like a crazy person!

also once again you were like in my strongest tier of objective read going into d3 here, and that was totally your play. like the {xx2008, Hugo} dichotomy was a very easy solve once you guys crossvoted each other. you also did not feel like a partner. and I think we saw pretty similar stuff in xx's ISO which was pretty lit.

yeah anyway i hope you stick around for some more games and your opinion of mafiascum is starting to / starts to lift up a bit soon.

@NK15

Spoiler:

i
a m
s o
s o r r y

compared to the last time we played together, your towngame was heaps more serious here and in hindsight i can see you brought what you have to the table. i think i need to invest some time into working out how to meta read you. i think if we had an extra day in this game / day 1 didn't go down the toilet, i should have arrived at you being town. it's just once it came down to a dichotomy of you vs. the inferno390 slot my read there was so obscenely bad i didn't see the wood for the trees.

xx2008 was a mechanically better lynch there, I can't 100% remember where my head was at when I switched over. if i have a flash of awareness
I'll yell out.

@Mister Rogers

Spoiler:

I reckon I gave you stacks of feedback in the thread. my inbox is always open if you wanna have a chat about this game. (and i'll be as honest as i can bring myself to be!! no agendas)

@Volxen

Spoiler:

I actually really rate your towngame, especially for someone new to the site. like once again i wouldn't be surprised if you were just NK'd for being really really town (but it did look a bit like you had TMI (too much info) on my slot).

for constructive criticism, a couple of points about TPR play I guess, because it's like nearly impossible to get "right" and probably takes some experience/a few goes at just being downright cheeky.

1. both Plotinus and NK15 are dead right in their postgame comments.

it's so so important to leave crumbs for the event that you die, but it's also vital not to look like you have TMI due to results. in a vt position, your posting was 11/10 and was completely the reason i had Formerfish on locktown even though I'm aware he has a strong scumgame. he and i were the same alignment like 80%+ of the time.

for example in our last game it was pretty obvious you successfully doc'd RCE, but it was only obvious after your flip. you had him as cool calm & casual town without giving too much away. as scum i really didn't cotton on to the fact that you were treating him....too? towny because he was obvious as hell town.

this game, there was a lot of rhetoric in your ISO which made it look like you were

absolutely 100% sure i was town

(i.e. due to a cop result) and you were trying to leave clues to it. it's pretty hard to fix this without sounding mechanical, but a couple of quick examples:-

However,

TW I came to the conclusion that your interactions with Fish had to be either TvT or SvS

. You guys seriously mindmelded as soon as Fish joined the game, and the way you two basically instantly townlocked each other convinced me that either 1) you guys were coordinating the way you were because you are the scumteam or 2) you guys have played with one another enough to recognize each other’s town game.

since fish had flipped and it was common knowledge, once you had flipped a passerby can pretty easily assume:
1. formerfish is confirmed town
2. volxen has the ability to confirm alignments (literally: he's a cop)
3. volxen has absolutely no doubt tw/formerfish are the same alignment
ERGO : volxen is confirming tw is town

a way you can change this for example,

However,

TW I came to the conclusion that your interactions with Fish

had a high chance of being TvT or SvS. I could be wrong about this, but Formerfish flipping town has improved my read of you

. You guys seriously mindmelded as soon as Fish joined the game, and the way you two basically instantly townlocked each other convinced me that either 1) you guys were coordinating the way you were because you are the scumteam or 2) you guys have played with one another enough to recognize each other’s town game.

(just reiterating from a vanilla town perspective; I agree that the way you read my slot is effective a vast majority of the time. it's just a little annoying that as a town power role you run the risk of people misinterpreting your genuine alignment reads as meaning more than they actually mean. )

2: you're too bloody good at town!!

this is the hilarious catch-22 of being a town power role in a setup with very few town power roles.
if it's really obvious that you're town (you won't be mislynchable) and your reads are trending well (they were, and changed pretty quickly here, for example) you become very high night-kill equity very quickly.
without playing against your wincon, sometimes it's actually really beneficial to 'tone down' the towniness as a town power role.

i think the right balance in being a town power role is somewhere between being town enough not to be lynched, yet not towny enough that you get shot. but then there's the third thing that if you look too survivalistic, scum will probably shoot you. so once again...total catch-22.

this is some really nuanced nitpicky 'food for thought' style feedback.
point #1 is definitely the one to pay more attention to!

@xx2008

Spoiler:

first of all--well played!
secondly, i have to apologise a little because i find it more challenging giving feedback to newbies after scumgames. once i've seen your towngame (hopefully one day soon) i think i'll have a bit more to say. :> also probably need to have a read of the scum PT to have a better gauge of how you approached this game tactically.

fyi everyone's favourite luminous bovine accessory (aka. radiantcowbells) might have some more tailored feedback for you in particular i feel.

in short I think Hugo cased you really well this game, particularly for stuff that just generally pinged him. there was lots of stuff in your ISO which was ... not quite towny, and he tuned into it really well. had the gamestate been more productive on day 1, i actually have a feeling you might have been lynched earlier this game.

honestly playing scum stinks when you don't have a lot of town experience in the same format. so absolutely huge kudos to you for sticking with the game, and ultimately winning it. having a chance to play scum with a player of RC's calibre is pretty cool as well, even if it's only briefly.

i think once i've seen the scum PT i can probably come and bug you with some more specific comments if you'd be keen for that?

if anyone wants to talk more about this--or again, has any unrelated questions--please feel free to ask here or shoot me a PM.

[the worst]

i typed all that

with

these!!!

weeoow

[volxen]

Crazy crazy game lol. And to think, the very first person I was suspicious of was xx2008! Here was my second post that I made in this game:

So most of the content in this game seems to be the Mister Rodgers vs Inferno argument. I’m not really sure that anything meaningful came out of it, and it could very well just be a heated TvT dispute that came out of differences in playstyle. However, what interests me the most so far is how xx2008 has responded to things.

First, xx2008 votes for Mister Rodgers in 49. As MR pointed out in 88, xx’s vote for MR came just three minutes after Inferno’s own vote for MR. Now it is possible that xx started typing up his post before Inferno made his own post where he voted for MR, and xx simply ignored the warning about their being new posts when he went to submit his own post. However, xx’s subsequent posts and behavior makes me doubt that.

So he votes for MR in 49, and then in 64 and 67, he says that his vote for MR is purely RVS and not serious. He also claims he did not see the second page at the time he posted, which implies that he thought that no one else had voted for MR at the time he voted for MR. xx’s posts 49, 64, 67, 72, 73, and 78 were all made within about an hour timespan, and he maintains throughout these posts that 1) his vote for MR is

PURELY RVS

and 2) that he was

completely unaware

of the fact that Inferno had already voted for MR at the time he placed his own vote for MR. But then my question is this: If xx did NOT intend to start a potential bandwagon against MR (or anyone else for that matter),

why didn’t he simply unvote (or randomly vote for someone else who didn’t have any votes) as soon as he realized that Inferno had already voted for MR?

All he had to do was to make a post to the effect of “I didn’t realize MR already had someone voting for him, and I don’t want to start a bandwagon against him, so I am going to vote for someone else that has no votes (or unvote)”. It literally would have been that simple. But instead, he simultaneously 1) maintains that his vote for MR is purely RVS and not serious or based on scumreading him, 2) maintains that he wasn’t aware that Inferno already had voted for MR and implies that he wouldn’t have voted for MR if he had known that Inferno already voted for him, and 3) keeps his vote on MR anyways despite 1) and 2). There were plenty of people who had no votes that he could have placed an RVS vote on, and yet he chooses to keep his vote on MR. The whole thing just comes off as highly contradictory and suspect to me.

And also in 78, he again reinforces the fact that his vote for MR was purely RVS, but then at the same time is defending himself when he says, “Although you shouldn't go after Inferno right away during RVS”. Why does he feel the need to justify himself here if his vote for MR was purely RVS? More specifically, if the vote truly was RVS, then why does he in the same sentence 1) reiterate the fact that the vote was RVS and 2) criticize MR for “going after” Inferno? I don’t know, but it just feels like he is almost trying to cover his bases, like he wants his vote to somehow simultaneously be both RVS but also serious because he found MR to be scummy in his interactions with Inferno, which he directly said in his earlier post 72. It’s either pure RVS or it’s serious; it can’t be both at the same time.

Then about four hours after he made post 78, he makes post 133, where his tune seems to have changed completely. At this point, what was supposedly an initial pure RVS vote has now turned into a full-fledged serious vote based on him now scumreading MR. Is this town!xx2008 developing a more solidified scumread on someone who just happened to be his initial RVS vote by chance, or is it scum!xx2008 realizing that he needs to come up with some sort of justification if he is going to keep his vote on MR? I don’t know yet, but I do find the reasoning behind his scumread of MR in 133 to be pretty bad. He basically says here that he thinks MR is scum because he 1) posts too much and 2) because he tried to get a reaction out of Inferno. At the end he says, “Constantly trying to get a reaction out of someone might make it seem like they are scum when they are not”, which I really don’t like. Why is he so against things like reaction testing and pressing people for answers? Engaging people and asking them questions to get to the bottom of their motivations is literally what this game is all about, and sometimes people have to be pressed/pushed in order to do that. Sometimes aggression is exactly what is needed in this game to uncover both town and scum. Overall, his scumread of MR is extremely weak, in my opinion. And why does xx place all of the blame on MR for the long and drawn-out MR vs Inferno debate? Both MR and Inferno equally contributed to how long and drawn-out their argument was, yet xx only has a problem with MR “posting too much”.

I didn’t like xx’s post 153 where says, “And, why are you going after post times? Doesn't this seem like scum trying to find an excuse to get someone?”. Here he is criticizing a legitimate tactic and trying to shutdown discussion. If MR suspects that xx is scum, then it makes a lot of sense to reiterate the post times regarding when Inferno and xx voted for MR. If xx is in fact scum, then the fact that Inferno voted for MR at 12:07 P.M. (see post 48) and xx voted for MR

three minutes later

at 12:10 P.M. (see post 49) is VERY relevant, as it would clearly indicate that xx purposely sheeped Inferno’s vote to start a bandwagon against MR.

And I really didn’t like xx’s post 172 as it just seems like lazy scumhunting. OK, so he’s made it clear at this point that MR is his top scumread, but why in the world does he just assume that the other member of the scumteam is more likely to be among the replacements rather than the original players? This doesn’t even make any sense. The original players that are being replaced are nastytoe (replaced by me), boguspotatohead (not replaced yet), and innocentvillager (not replaced yet). IV’s only content was basically saying that he wanted to replace out because he doesn’t want to play with MR, and NT and BPH literally have no content in the game. And at the time xx wrote post 172, I didn’t have any content in this game either. If anything, shouldn’t xx be nullreading these 3 slots which (at the time) basically had zero content collectively in this game?

Anyways, for now I am going to park my vote on xx as I would like him to explain himself and especially his scumread of MR more, and he is the most suspicious player for me at the moment.

VOTE: xx2008

Lol damn. Too bad I got distracted by Fish and TW on day 1...

[RadiantCowbells]

Fwiw, I would have lost in your position d3 vs inferno TW

That said, I'm not so sure I lost the game from D1.

[volxen]

I did end up deducing that the scumteam was RC[Inferno] and xx, at least after dying anyways . For my night 2 action, I investigated Hugo as I wanted to be 100% certain about him, as I thought that RC would try to push for his mislynch after Draynth's mislynch. So after I got the town result on Hugo, I just knew that the scumteam had to be RC/xx, as NK15/xx didn't really make sense, and Fish's flip convinced me that TW was town.

I shared my predictions with MR and Draynth in the dead thread regarding how I thought lylo would play out, but I didn't anticipate you guys mislynching NK15 today . I thought for sure that xx2008 would be lynched on day 3 and the game would go to 3-player lylo with RC, NK15, and Hugo remaining (with TW being nightkilled on night 3).

[volxen]

RC, was it odd for you to win as sucm WITHOUT busing anyone? My understanding is that you have quite the reputation for busing as scum.