Mini 2036: Charging Up! - Game Over

[BNL]

VC 1.11

theslimer3 (4): ManateeDude, Porkens, Vaxkiller, northsidegal
DS (2): RadiantCowbells, Gamma Emerald
RadiantCowbells (2): Not_Mafia, DS
northsidegal (1): lane0168
ManateeDude (1): Kokichi Oma
Porkens (1): theslimer3
Vaxkiller (1): GuiltyLion

Not Voting (1): Lady Angel

With 13 players alive it takes 7 to lynch

The deadline is 17 October 11:30am UTC-4, or in (expired on 2018-10-17 11:30:00)

Mod notes:

[RadiantCowbells]

I have a feeling this is all a facade. Watch them both be scum.

this is an absolutely unbelievable post. no one, like competency not required not even a total newbie as their first reaction calls me and NSG SvS. so that to me locks DS as scum. going beyond that, I don't really see why DS call us SvS if we're both town, I mean I guess it's

plausible

he wants to discredit the mutual "townreads" there but I think the more likely answer is that NSG was in fact scum, DS has gotten to the point of thinking he won't keep NSG up forever, and wants to try to sneak my mislynch on the back end.

and given that I've made it super clear that my unvote on NSG was less due to townreading her and more due to just, like, not wanting to, there's no reason I'd vote her over DS here. the fact that he decided to handwave all the interactions between me and NSG, dismiss that entire engagement as a facade, and go back to 'well RC said 100% read' is incredibly disingenuous and something that came out of some sort of scum motivation 100% of the time. town him also doesn't make that post about me being a meme so why follow me, that's not a post you make about a scumread.

like maaaybe NSG actually is town if he saw that as us coming together in a way that didn't actually happen but this is more about DS than NSG either way.

[RadiantCowbells]

don't form reads very fast. So yeah, that was the thing that stuck out the most to me so far. How can you even call out "Lurkers" before there's 24 hours passed?

Probably not the most scummy thing ever but I have nothing else right now.

wolfy

okay so let's drill into this Manatee/Lane thing a bit

When someone votes seriously, I'm interested. You don't have to be. But I want to know what he means. He doesn't want to explain it. Can you explain it? If not, does it matter to you the reasons for people's cases? If not, why not?

in my view, slimer's original comment was nothing more than a joke and NAI. but I can easily imagine how someone else may not see it as just a joke and could have inferred some weird/unnecessary shade in it. I don't agree with that read, I don't immediately share Manatee's suspicion, but I can understand it so I also don't see it as disingenuous, especially for a page 1 read/vote. And that's entirely the level of thought I feel is necessary to evaluate the whole thing. I have a plausible town explanation for Manatee's behavior, no solid reason to prefer an alternative scum!explanation, and therefore it's not worth diving into further.

You can't seem to imagine this relatively simple town!Manatee explanation for his vote and that's more concerning to me. How much can Manatee really offer beyond what he's said already? He thought the shade that he saw in that post was weird so he voted it. What more would you expect him to explain? Yours doesn't feel like a productive line of questioning, it looks more like busy work to start conflicts and get a foot in the game. Maybe in the abstract, "are weird posts scummy?" is a good question for the Mafia Discussion board, but if you want to dive that deep into every single vote or claim that anyone makes you're going to rapidly lose sight of the bigger picture and create a bunch of tangential arguments that only become noise in the thread.

And what also looks bad is how you're strawmanning me here - I have never suggested that "the reasons for people's cases" don't matter to me. But Manatee's vote was a) not nearly at the level I would call a 'case', and b) already sufficiently explained for what it was

You just answered my questions... To you, my interest in the situation was scummy. I wanted to figure out how/why you were disinterested. I asked you about it. And you just now answered.

I can imagine it coming from town or scum, that is why I asked about it. I had questions. I wanted them answered. If I couldn't imagine them coming from town, my questions would've been paired with a vote. A vote that came later after manatee wouldnt acknowledge the questions. And were ultimately explained away as a misunderstanding. Which can come from town or scum, but doesnt pass the smell test.

I can see scum latching on to something pregame to insert THEMselves into the game immediately.

Again, I'm not offended if you didn't feel the need to dive into it, but I did. And I'm not exactly satisfied with the "so I'm being wagoned for a misunderstanding" bit. Not much of a wagon, and there wouldn't be one at all if he just answered the questions. I can't say for certain there wouldn't be I guess, but not answering was the biggest reason for voting him.

Can someone with meta knowledge of this person tell me if unnecessary walls are common for them?

then like going back to his reads, when the fuck does anyone town scumread anyone for 'unnecessary walls'?

I had no problem with Manatee's poke on slimer and I'm not sure why it caught interest between both lane and Kokichi. feels like there could be scum between those two

Vax is still a good vote IMO

too many lurkers

Why would you post this less than 24 hours into the game..?

Bonus points for not posting anything after calling out lurkers less than a day in, too.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Porkens

Lady Angel, do you really think Porkens' comment is the most scum-indicative/noteworthy thing that has happened so far? I'm surprised that this was what you felt was most important to comment on

I don't form reads very fast. So yeah, that was the thing that stuck out the most to me so far. How can you even call out "Lurkers" before there's 24 hours passed?

Probably not the most scummy thing ever but I have nothing else right now.

Tagging this as pinging my scumdar. This is something scum does often, picking a small little thing and trying to make it into more than it is.

then, like, LA brought up something that she said was a small thing and not most scummy thing and DS, apparently unironically, picked up on a small thing and tried to make it into more than it is.

LA is unironically obviously town this game, and both this push and the lane push are like awful. like lane do you not have a problem with being called 1/3 scum for making 'unnecessary wallposts'

[Gamma Emerald]

Am I not allowed to stir the pot? Can you explain your ideas of RC's thought progression on NSG and her alignment during that conversation and then reflect on how that translates into his vote on me?

For reference he says:

can we vote slimer or DS

please don't scumread me for backing off on you I can't deal with it rn

eh
i'm gonna just assume that i was right on nsg and ds

VOTE: DS

if you're town it's my turn to trust you 0 so you should be sheeping me NSG.

So his read goes from NSG lock scum with Slimer/DS to not scum reading NSG to saying it is NSG and DS but then not voting NSG who he supposedly has a lock scumread on.

Progression makes no sense.

I think RC realized he could be wrong but still felt like his initial feeling had merit. And stirring the pot is fine if it’s not taking advantage of a situation, which is how that felt.

[Gamma Emerald]

And actually that makes even less sense when you look at "if you're town it's my turn to trust you 0 so you should be sheeping me NSG."

Because he said during his vote on me "eh I'm gonna just assume that i was right on NSG and ds" so if you are townreading NSG why are you voting me?

Progression fail.

I thought RC was scum when the read confidence was 100% for reasons already stated. Once I noticed him thinking it over I changed my read.

[Gamma Emerald]

please don't scumread me for backing off on you I can't deal with it rn

Yes! I'm pretty pumped about this because I wasn't real in board with the Nsg vote, reading through the last 15 or so posts.

y u still voting there then?

[RadiantCowbells]

because he hasn't yet sheeped me on the power DS wagon

lane will learn in time

[RadiantCowbells]

Also I've thought about it more and I think Slimer is unlikely to flip scum.

[theslimer3]

Geez wagon much? Gimmie a bit to catch up

[Not_Mafia]

VOTE: slimer

[RadiantCowbells]

[lane0168]

don't form reads very fast. So yeah, that was the thing that stuck out the most to me so far. How can you even call out "Lurkers" before there's 24 hours passed?

Probably not the most scummy thing ever but I have nothing else right now.

wolfy

okay so let's drill into this Manatee/Lane thing a bit

When someone votes seriously, I'm interested. You don't have to be. But I want to know what he means. He doesn't want to explain it. Can you explain it? If not, does it matter to you the reasons for people's cases? If not, why not?

in my view, slimer's original comment was nothing more than a joke and NAI. but I can easily imagine how someone else may not see it as just a joke and could have inferred some weird/unnecessary shade in it. I don't agree with that read, I don't immediately share Manatee's suspicion, but I can understand it so I also don't see it as disingenuous, especially for a page 1 read/vote. And that's entirely the level of thought I feel is necessary to evaluate the whole thing. I have a plausible town explanation for Manatee's behavior, no solid reason to prefer an alternative scum!explanation, and therefore it's not worth diving into further.

You can't seem to imagine this relatively simple town!Manatee explanation for his vote and that's more concerning to me. How much can Manatee really offer beyond what he's said already? He thought the shade that he saw in that post was weird so he voted it. What more would you expect him to explain? Yours doesn't feel like a productive line of questioning, it looks more like busy work to start conflicts and get a foot in the game. Maybe in the abstract, "are weird posts scummy?" is a good question for the Mafia Discussion board, but if you want to dive that deep into every single vote or claim that anyone makes you're going to rapidly lose sight of the bigger picture and create a bunch of tangential arguments that only become noise in the thread.

And what also looks bad is how you're strawmanning me here - I have never suggested that "the reasons for people's cases" don't matter to me. But Manatee's vote was a) not nearly at the level I would call a 'case', and b) already sufficiently explained for what it was

You just answered my questions... To you, my interest in the situation was scummy. I wanted to figure out how/why you were disinterested. I asked you about it. And you just now answered.

I can imagine it coming from town or scum, that is why I asked about it. I had questions. I wanted them answered. If I couldn't imagine them coming from town, my questions would've been paired with a vote. A vote that came later after manatee wouldnt acknowledge the questions. And were ultimately explained away as a misunderstanding. Which can come from town or scum, but doesnt pass the smell test.

I can see scum latching on to something pregame to insert THEMselves into the game immediately.

Again, I'm not offended if you didn't feel the need to dive into it, but I did. And I'm not exactly satisfied with the "so I'm being wagoned for a misunderstanding" bit. Not much of a wagon, and there wouldn't be one at all if he just answered the questions. I can't say for certain there wouldn't be I guess, but not answering was the biggest reason for voting him.

Can someone with meta knowledge of this person tell me if unnecessary walls are common for them?

then like going back to his reads, when the fuck does anyone town scumread anyone for 'unnecessary walls'?

I had no problem with Manatee's poke on slimer and I'm not sure why it caught interest between both lane and Kokichi. feels like there could be scum between those two

Vax is still a good vote IMO

too many lurkers

Why would you post this less than 24 hours into the game..?

Bonus points for not posting anything after calling out lurkers less than a day in, too.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Porkens

Lady Angel, do you really think Porkens' comment is the most scum-indicative/noteworthy thing that has happened so far? I'm surprised that this was what you felt was most important to comment on

I don't form reads very fast. So yeah, that was the thing that stuck out the most to me so far. How can you even call out "Lurkers" before there's 24 hours passed?

Probably not the most scummy thing ever but I have nothing else right now.

Tagging this as pinging my scumdar. This is something scum does often, picking a small little thing and trying to make it into more than it is.

then, like, LA brought up something that she said was a small thing and not most scummy thing and DS, apparently unironically, picked up on a small thing and tried to make it into more than it is.

LA is unironically obviously town this game, and both this push and the lane push are like awful. like lane do you not have a problem with being called 1/3 scum for making 'unnecessary wallposts'

I definitely do. I told him to highlight the unnecessary part, then came to the conclusion he didn't read it any way. I gave some slack because it was a quick catch up, and I also pointed out his reads were pretty bad

[RadiantCowbells]

Why don't you vote him then?

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: slimer

Can you stop making decisions in this game with the primary focus being to spite me?

[lane0168]

please don't scumread me for backing off on you I can't deal with it rn

Yes! I'm pretty pumped about this because I wasn't real in board with the Nsg vote, reading through the last 15 or so posts.

y u still voting there then?

Serious question? I was at a bar, the wild game had just gotten over, I was just cruising through this game reading a bit getting uncomfortable with lynching Nsg cause and was happy about rc rethinking the whole deal. I'm still voting there because I haven't decided where else to vote.

Surely that's not foreign to you... Leaving your vote somewhere because you're not exactly sure where you want to put it next.

And then you're going to ask why I unvoted rc. And I'll answer because there was a perception that people were running up rc to 4 votes pretty quickly and I've seen dumber quick lynches within a couple pages before and I wanted nothing to do with that, avoid it.

At least that's the only reason I could think of for asking that

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't think that you not unvoting NSG is scummy at all. It's not like you're leaving the vote up with the intent of getting her lynched. You just haven't got anywhere else to vote, that's pretty natural.
What is unnatural to me is the fact that you haven't voted DS to me. There's a developing wagon there, you've already expressed your agreement, they pushed on you in a really scummy way, but you don't vote there.

Why?

[lane0168]

Why don't you vote him then?

He deserves my vote, but I was thinking I'd dig into this slimer thing and figure out why he got all the votes. I haven't been getting a scum vibe from him at all.

[Not_Mafia]

VOTE: slimer

Can you stop making decisions in this game with the primary focus being to spite me?

Again, you way overestimate your importance, I think slimer is scum

[RadiantCowbells]

I agree that Slimer3 is town. if he deserves your vote, why don't you give him your vote?

Again, you way overestimate your importance, I think slimer is scum

This is fine then but what if I told you that by meta Slimer3 making ridiculous posts like this isn't a scumtell and he's actually more... ordinary? as scum

[lane0168]

I don't think that you not unvoting NSG is scummy at all. It's not like you're leaving the vote up with the intent of getting her lynched. You just haven't got anywhere else to vote, that's pretty natural.
What is unnatural to me is the fact that you haven't voted DS to me. There's a developing wagon there, you've already expressed your agreement, they pushed on you in a really scummy way, but you don't vote there.

Why?

And Ive literally just been sleeping, now awake and catching up. Kind of rereading last night's happenings. Simply just haven't. There's not much more to it than that

Pedit: new reason for not voting there to spite you cause you keep asking. I'm not in any rush. I'd also like to make sure slimer doesn't deserve it more



So if anyone can explain the slimer thing....

[RadiantCowbells]

like here's an example of one of Slimer's scum ISOs, copy it manually so I odn't have to do the work setting up the link with the text substitutions

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=73079&user_select[]=20154

he doesn't say anything 'strange', he just has very boring reads and a very boring trajectory and is very 'ordinary' aside from phrasing. doesn't say weird things like he does here.

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=72010&user_select[]=20154

here's a game where he rolls town, says a bunch of 'strange' things including telling everyone to claim scum and selfvote, and gets lynched d1 for it.

[lane0168]

I'm going back to sleep

Pedit: later

[RadiantCowbells]

Hey NSG

You have two choices

1) Prove that you're town in the next 24 hours. Upon doing so you have my vote to lynch whoever you scumread and I'll help you get other votes

2) I lynch you.

Even if he clears himself of town that wouldn't make his reads accurate, now would lynching him right now be practical. Where are you going with this?

I mean, the idea of someone proving that their town to get a free "hey, I'll help you lynch whoever you want" just seems anti-town in the way of trying to find scum.
The the inscentive is "I'll lynch you" if you dont. I mean who the hell does that?

like don't get me wrong my first impression was that these two posts were a hard scumclaim as well
but based on what i've seen of their meta he outright doesn't make posts like this as scum at all and constantly says weird shit that gets him mislynched as town.

[RadiantCowbells]

{RC}
{Slimer, Lady Angel, Manateedude}
{Porkens}
{NM}

townpool as of now, NM being only slightly > null

[DS]

{RC}
{Slimer, Lady Angel, Manateedude}
{Porkens}
{NM}

townpool as of now, NM being only slightly > null

Now you have slimer in your town pool? You were just saying you wanted to lynch either him or me.