Open 737: Stack the Deck (Game Over)

[BuJaber]

Performer- I townread skitter because of a combination of meta (she is posting a lot while maintaining her vague confused, and nullish stances) her meta is actually infuriating and allows her to safely coast as scum but she's pretty much correct about her meta from what I've seen.
Also there are a few fourth wall breaking reasons to TR her, like the fact that she, in the mafia thread of pyp x/y implied that she is scum in 2 games. That one and some other game that isn't this. That post was made after this game starts. I can see her fooling us by imitating her town meta, but I don't see her fooling herself or forgetting she's scum in this game.

Her saying she would have killed ruru by now is kinda bs if you ask me because it's only day 3 in a setup with an IC and possible PRs and ruru's play, especially with a strong townread on her would not have justified an NK. But I do absolutely believe that she would not keep ruru alive until endgame if she were scum.

VOTE: Enigma

Ruru and Alonzo prove their towniness by getting killed..

That leaves {ele, performer} as last scum.

I highly doubt Korina is scum here.

[BuJaber]

Like if Alonzo doesn't get killed he is 100% scum here.

[ruru]

VOTE: Enigma

That leaves {ele, performer} as last scum.

[ruru]

oh maybe that's not what I thought it meant.

[BuJaber]

oh maybe that's not what I thought it meant.

[Korina]

Like if Alonzo doesn't get killed he is 100% scum here.

Do you mean Ruru?

[BuJaber]

Technically both but like no scum would target ruru herself she would only die if alonzo is town.

[Irrelephant11]

If I understand correctly - Buj why do you have sr on irrelephant, and why do you tr skitter - she has you & irrelephant as scum.

irrelephant you have skitter as tr and she has you & buj as scum though. Interesting.

Why is this interesting? I townread people who I think are wrong all the time

I disagree there's cog-diss there. It's the same feeling of paranoia I had about you that then moved to Korina. I'm not actually scumreading either of you I just feel like BuJ/Performer is a little too easy and am wondering who I got wrong

my point is more that you're telling me you're getting paranoid of me for not having any major scumreads and then proceed to say that your scumreads are all getting townier and you're wondering where you went wrong

-snip-

This is actually a really fair point
Alright you can be solidly town again

I'm starting to wonder if the remaining scum are a certain pair in here.

do tell

Spoiler: lol

I didn't use my ability either night

I don't value creature's life over my own

lol

I'm bodyguard lol

And yet you weren't on Creature last night...?
Also, mind telling us who you were on then?

Interestingly, why would she have been on creature? I didn't see he claimed anything on a quick ISO skim.

lol

so tonight what will you do then??

Likely die

lollllll

ok so they took one mod; i'd guess it's recruit traitor or daytalk

...lol

I didn't use my ability either night

I don't value creature's life over my own

ok so this is kinda scummy

but a thought-process i can see town!you having

and you probs die tonight anyways so it's not super worth worrying about imo

lol!

i roll vt an insane amount and this is how i end up in lylo most of the time

lol

so i'm just going to treat ruru and alonzo as for now town; ruru prob gets nk'd tonight either by play or by protecting alonzo; i'll worry about alonzo after that i think

i'm town

so two scum in {enigma/performer/irrel/bujaber/vex}

going to go here i think for now

VOTE: bujaber

Agree with bolded
Actually, I think I agree with all of it

I'll save you time on #2: I said that it was unlikely for scum to take all three, however, I thought they'd have certainly taken two: Daytalk and {JOAT, Rolecop}.

Here's the quotes that were relevant:

Actually thanks vex that’s quite useful. I was too lazy to look myself, partly because of what you mentioned about mods not flipping on post 0.

What’s interesting is that it’s 15 games, so from glance of numbers the average no of mods per game is quite low.

roughly about 1.2 mods/game
which is quite interesting in general
if im scum id wanna take around two mods not one

i think scum were very likely to take:
daytalk, joat and rolecop if they took three
i don't think they did, and

im 100% sure they did take daytalk

meaning for me its between {joat/rc} for scum second mod

@Korina why were you so sure scum took daytalk? I don't think many players would choose it (though skitter and I would, for example), but also didn't your analysis of most-commonly-chosen mods reveal daytalk was one of the least common?

[Korina]

IMO, daytalk is incredibly useful. Sure, it gives town an extra PR, however, it allows scum to coordinate so much better that it basically makes up for the extra PR they would've given Town, assuming both scum could utilize it effectively.
Also BP/Daytalk were the least picked. A total of 0 games had that as a chosen modifier.

[Alonzo]

Scum! Ruru could easily claim bg safe in the knowledge I can't rb her tonight.

[Irrelephant11]

oh interesting
that you thought of that makes me believe your claim more strongly

did either of you provide crumbs?

Also @ruru did you respond to my question about how you read me/tw interactions post-claim yet?

[ruru]

I don't crumb, but there's this if you want to try to read into it:

this game feels like a loss.

It's semi-mountainous and creatue rolling ic is negative utility because he'd probably be doing more if he was just vt

my mindset was different from other players' because I knew we probably had 0-1 useful prs

[ruru]

Also @ruru did you respond to my question about how you read me/tw interactions post-claim yet?

honestly the worst's slot is so bizarre that I have no useful comment on those interactions

at the time it felt like you might be softing pr by scumreading him and so I thought he was rolefishing, but I don't particularly think you scumreading him there and then claiming vt makes you much more likely to be scum

[Irrelephant11]

Okay

Agreed on his slot being real weird at this point
Also I'm unsure what to do about scumreading BuJ/Performer but BuJ lining up Performer to be the lynch after enigma
Probably I shouldn't read into it that much since I find BuJ scummy in a vacuum, not just in a partner-y way

[ruru]

I still kinda think performer is traitor if not town so bujaber wouldn't necessarily have partner tells anyway

I just don't really see a world where tw quits mafia sitewide over a scumread on scum.him though

[Irrelephant11]

I don't mean to argue that that's definitely not what happened (and in fact over time it seems your interpretation is more likely than I thought)
I just don't think we can know for sure that's what happened/use it as a trust tell (especially since "oh he wouldn't want to break the rules, therefore trust tell" would also be breaking the rules)

Earlier this game I did think he was town pretty hard from catching up and reading his ISO but his softclaim was scummy as was the way he subtly took BuJ's advice to scumread you

[Irrelephant11]

eh I think I probably still believe both claims, despite the "convenience" of the bg claim
My PoE is at {enigma, BuJ, Performer} and the only confusing thing there is that it seems enigma and BuJaber have the same PoE's as me....

[ruru]

I somewhat scumread the softclaim because I think it benefits scum.him more than town.him in this particular gamestate but in a general sense softing pr to draw the nk is something he would do as town and I think other things were much more scum-indicative for him

[ruru]

also I don't think it's against the rules to siteflake as either alignment? and I don't feel like he

actually

trust told or that that method of reading his slot is any more shady than, say, ellitell; I'm just calling it that for convenience

like I think it's a case of what penguin would call "having knowledge of a player's meta": everyone likes to win, but I don't think tw as a person would intentionally decrease the quality of all his games for the other players in them by siteflaking for the purpose of towntelling in this game, which means his outrage was probably genuine, which means he's probably town

I've carefully written this post in a way that I hope doesn't break site rules but anyway that's how I feel about it. it's not a simple case of "tw wouldn't tactically replace as scum".

I would still feel a lot better if I had independently good reasons to tr performer

[skitter30]

The only scum-modifier that was reasonably taken if it is one modifier is JOAT.

i kinda disagree; i think that the only pr i'd take if i was only taking one is recruit traitor

[ofrhz]

VOTE COUNT 3.10

Alonzo (0):

Performer (0):

ruru (0):

BuJaber (2):

Irrelephant11, skitter30

Enigma (2):

Performer, BuJaber

Irrelephant11 (0):

skitter30 (0):

Korina (0):

No Kill (0):

Not Voting (4):

Alonzo, Enigma, Korina, ruru

With

8

alive, it takes

5

to kill.
Day 3 ends in (expired on 2018-10-16 07:30:00)

Other:

- skitter30 V/LA Fridays and Saturdays

[Alonzo]

vote:Bu

L1

[Korina]

No, recruit traitor is bad.
Really bad.

That means there's a 50% chance of there being a GC, and then the GC has a 25% of getting a guilty.
It's not worth taking the extra chance of there being Goon Cop, and on top of that, the extra guilty unless you take something else with it.

[Alonzo]

L2 even

[skitter30]

Also there are a few fourth wall breaking reasons to TR her, like the fact that she, in the mafia thread of pyp x/y implied that she is scum in 2 games. That one and some other game that isn't this. That post was made after this game starts. I can see her fooling us by imitating her town meta, but I don't see her fooling herself or forgetting she's scum in this game.

Her saying she would have killed ruru by now is kinda bs if you ask me because it's only day 3 in a setup with an IC and possible PRs and ruru's play, especially with a strong townread on her would not have justified an NK. But I do absolutely believe that she would not keep ruru alive until endgame if she were scum.

i feel kinda :/ about you using the pyp x|y reasoning to townread me cuz it feels kinda angle-shoot-y. i guess i should have been more careful about that but it's not something i meant to do on purpose

ok, maybe scum!me wouldn't have nk'd her already? i feel like i prob would have n2 but eh maybe i would have done it tonight. def would nk her before endgame; i'd be very nervous about trying to keep the pocket

but i did nk her n1 in pyp x|y first; although tbf that was at least partially motivted by her having first pick in the draft