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[Plotinus]

Official Vote Count 3.01

Crows can count!

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Lynching

With 5 votes in play, it takes 3 to lynch.

Everybody

(0): Nobody

Not Voting

(5): Ceejayvinoya, Dojaj, Flavor Leaf, Korina, Lamees

Deadline:

(expired on 2018-10-17 08:45:00).

Mod notes:

Keep it fun!

[Korina]

Alright, that result doesn't help us...
@Flavor, what did you wanna say?

My lynch-pool today is {Lamees, Ceejay}.
Also, Dojaj, track {Lamees, Ceejay} tonight, (whoever we didn't hang).

[Korina]

Also, why did you track FF?

[dojaj]

Why are you trying to tell me who to track? To avoid tracking you? Suspicious very
You can’t control who I track
VOTE: Korina

[Korina]

No, because if you do that, I can literally solve the game.

[Korina]

Scum must fall within {Ceejay, Lamees, Flavor}.
If we lynch {Ceejay, Lamees} today, and you track the other, we're guaranteed to solve the game.
If one of them flips red, gg, we win!
If one of them flips green, and the other one visits, gg, we win!
If one of them flips green, and the other one doesn't visit, gg, we win!*

Literally following that yields a win for us.

* - Assuming mafia actually commit a kill. If Mafia do not kill, I'd have to re-work something.

Also, Dojaj, if I'm scum, you'd be dead.

[Korina]

Give me a little bit to coherently write my thoughts on why I cannot be scum in this position, and how lynching {Lamees, Ceejay} and tracking the other solves the game.

[Lamees]

Scum must fall within {Ceejay, Lamees, Flavor}.
If we lynch {Ceejay, Lamees} today, and you track the other, we're guaranteed to solve the game.
If one of them flips red, gg, we win!
If one of them flips green, and the other one visits, gg, we win!
If one of them flips green, and the other one doesn't visit, gg, we win!*

Literally following that yields a win for us.

* - Assuming mafia actually commit a kill. If Mafia do not kill, I'd have to re-work something.

Also, Dojaj, if I'm scum, you'd be dead.

But... wait. So there are 5 players. 1 is a tracker, that makes a scum pool of 4. What kind of plan is "i am town, we lynch 1, and track one of the other 2, but ignore me completely" this screams scum. In fact, I give dojaj permission to track me every night, if i ever say do not track me lynch me instantly. That is giving away a free night kill if you are gonna listen to anyone claiming not to track them.

Scum must fall within {Ceejay, Lamees, Flavor}.

Also, Dojaj, if I'm scum, you'd be dead.

This proves nothing lol.

I am leaning ceej and korina, fl and doj are town, if dojaj tracks the townie that got night killed again, i will suspect him too.

I'll have to go look at interactions between korina/lcpl and ceej/lcpl

[Flavor Leaf]

There’s the chance that Dojaj is actually still scum.

If the setup is Mafia Goon/Goon, that means there was a chance for Cop/VT, JK/VT, or Tracker/Doc, meaning that the tracker claim by dojaj had a 2 out of 3 chance to go by safely, and if the setup was Tracker/Doctor, then that would out the tracker with a counterclaim, which was the only thing hat could really catch out scum, as Doctor isn’t inherently dangerous if you can outguess.

This being said, that actually makes the Dojaj vs Jones 1v1 rather solid, and makes sense why Jones would counterclaim in that scenario.

Either one of them could ride off into the sunset potentially afterward.

That being said, Formerfish dying really is what put that into perspective for me. That’s far too risky of a play to make. Dojaj literally hadn’t the opportunity to clear anyone or get a straight up guilty, and I think it made sense for him to investigate any player in this game, however Dojaj by all means should have died. Formerfish was also the one player here who was likely NEVER getting lynched, and once Fish stayed that he didn’t think I was scum, him pushing me to a mislynch flew out the window too.

I think Dojaj is the last scum, and him and Jones set up a nice gambit.

[Flavor Leaf]

I think it’s the Cop/VT - Goon/Goon setup, that means.

[Lamees]

There’s the chance that Dojaj is actually still scum.

If the setup is Mafia Goon/Goon, that means there was a chance for Cop/VT, JK/VT, or Tracker/Doc, meaning that the tracker claim by dojaj had a 2 out of 3 chance to go by safely, and if the setup was Tracker/Doctor, then that would out the tracker with a counterclaim, which was the only thing hat could really catch out scum, as Doctor isn’t inherently dangerous if you can outguess.

This being said, that actually makes the Dojaj vs Jones 1v1 rather solid, and makes sense why Jones would counterclaim in that scenario.

Either one of them could ride off into the sunset potentially afterward.

That being said, Formerfish dying really is what put that into perspective for me. That’s far too risky of a play to make. Dojaj literally hadn’t the opportunity to clear anyone or get a straight up guilty, and I think it made sense for him to investigate any player in this game, however Dojaj by all means should have died. Formerfish was also the one player here who was likely NEVER getting lynched, and once Fish stayed that he didn’t think I was scum, him pushing me to a mislynch flew out the window too.

I think Dojaj is the last scum, and him and Jones set up a nice gambit.

See, this I like. It covers all angles, and takes other things into perspective. But I think we should give dojaj 1 more day, if he tracks the dead townie tomorrow, we got him. I dont wanna mislynch the tracker because of 1 suspicious night kill. Two suspicious night kills will be more appropriate. Also I'm kinda leaning towards dojaj is the tracker because if he was scum:
1) he would have false tracked someone and got them lynched
2) he did suspect/vote for ff yesterday, so maybe he legit thought ff was the scum and tracked

[Flavor Leaf]

this is mixed in with my thoughts of Lames/Korina feeling inherently town all game, and I understand why TownKorina would think that clears him. I agree with Korina. Based on getting to know Korina this game alone, I believe Korina would have for sure killed Dojaj, as would most of the other players here.

Fish was a RISKY kill for anyone here, and I believe as scum, the only people who wouldn’t kill Dojaj here would be Dojaj, and then depending on the situation, it’s not out of the realm of possibility that I would have killed Fish if I were scum here, but I know I’m not, so that’s not an issue.

For you guys, I get it. I was tracked last night, why would I expect to be tracked this night.

But the thing is, had Dojaj been a town tracker and tracked Ceej or Lames, they’d have been 100% cleared, and that’s not a strong scum play.

That’s just my WIFOM defense of myself, I feel we all were making WIFOM defenses.

But yeah, I’m pretty sure it’s just Dojaj.

Also explains the gambit Jones pulled.

[Flavor Leaf]

There’s the chance that Dojaj is actually still scum.

If the setup is Mafia Goon/Goon, that means there was a chance for Cop/VT, JK/VT, or Tracker/Doc, meaning that the tracker claim by dojaj had a 2 out of 3 chance to go by safely, and if the setup was Tracker/Doctor, then that would out the tracker with a counterclaim, which was the only thing hat could really catch out scum, as Doctor isn’t inherently dangerous if you can outguess.

This being said, that actually makes the Dojaj vs Jones 1v1 rather solid, and makes sense why Jones would counterclaim in that scenario.

Either one of them could ride off into the sunset potentially afterward.

That being said, Formerfish dying really is what put that into perspective for me. That’s far too risky of a play to make. Dojaj literally hadn’t the opportunity to clear anyone or get a straight up guilty, and I think it made sense for him to investigate any player in this game, however Dojaj by all means should have died. Formerfish was also the one player here who was likely NEVER getting lynched, and once Fish stayed that he didn’t think I was scum, him pushing me to a mislynch flew out the window too.

I think Dojaj is the last scum, and him and Jones set up a nice gambit.

See, this I like. It covers all angles, and takes other things into perspective. But I think we should give dojaj 1 more day, if he tracks the dead townie tomorrow, we got him. I dont wanna mislynch the tracker because of 1 suspicious night kill. Two suspicious night kills will be more appropriate. Also I'm kinda leaning towards dojaj is the tracker because if he was scum:
1) he would have false tracked someone and got them lynched
2) he did suspect/vote for ff yesterday, so maybe he legit thought ff was the scum and tracked

FF was going after Dojaj and that’s why Dojaj voted him.

Also, this is a risky play, because Dojaj can just claim a guilty on someone tomorrow.

What do you do in that scenario? Because tomorrow will be lylo. (Lynch and lose)

[Flavor Leaf]

@Lames - are you prepared to be in 3p lylo with Dojaj and I, where Dojaj claims either you went nowhere or I killed Korina, both which would be fake results, but seem to be potentially true.

I say this because Ceej is the other mislynch option for the day, I believe.

[Flavor Leaf]

Like the situation sucks because if Dojaj is actually town, and Lames or Ceej is scum, well fuck.

I’d rather deal with it today than deal with a direct 1v1 tomorrow.

[Lamees]

There’s the chance that Dojaj is actually still scum.

If the setup is Mafia Goon/Goon, that means there was a chance for Cop/VT, JK/VT, or Tracker/Doc, meaning that the tracker claim by dojaj had a 2 out of 3 chance to go by safely, and if the setup was Tracker/Doctor, then that would out the tracker with a counterclaim, which was the only thing hat could really catch out scum, as Doctor isn’t inherently dangerous if you can outguess.

This being said, that actually makes the Dojaj vs Jones 1v1 rather solid, and makes sense why Jones would counterclaim in that scenario.

Either one of them could ride off into the sunset potentially afterward.

That being said, Formerfish dying really is what put that into perspective for me. That’s far too risky of a play to make. Dojaj literally hadn’t the opportunity to clear anyone or get a straight up guilty, and I think it made sense for him to investigate any player in this game, however Dojaj by all means should have died. Formerfish was also the one player here who was likely NEVER getting lynched, and once Fish stayed that he didn’t think I was scum, him pushing me to a mislynch flew out the window too.

I think Dojaj is the last scum, and him and Jones set up a nice gambit.

See, this I like. It covers all angles, and takes other things into perspective. But I think we should give dojaj 1 more day, if he tracks the dead townie tomorrow, we got him. I dont wanna mislynch the tracker because of 1 suspicious night kill. Two suspicious night kills will be more appropriate. Also I'm kinda leaning towards dojaj is the tracker because if he was scum:
1) he would have false tracked someone and got them lynched
2) he did suspect/vote for ff yesterday, so maybe he legit thought ff was the scum and tracked

FF was going after Dojaj and that’s why Dojaj voted him.

Also, this is a risky play, because Dojaj can just claim a guilty on someone tomorrow.

What do you do in that scenario? Because tomorrow will be lylo. (Lynch and lose)

Well I was hoping you wouldnt ask that, because if dojaj is even alive tomorrow, we could have got him! but now if anyone else is scum they might just leave him alive and ride the win on his lynch tomorrow.

[Korina]

If I'm scum, I wouldn't have killed FF. I'd have killed you, Dojaj, 100% of the time. I'm not a newbie, and I understand in this setup, (B1), with one scum left, the Tracker is at the same power of a Cop. The only difference is a guilty has to come from a player visiting, and if mafia do not NK, that means something major.
Why would Scum!Me, (who knows that if you decide to track me and I kill someone, that's game for me instantly), leave you alive, when I've had the same position happen before in a discord game of this exact same setup?

I've referenced that discord game earlier in this game: I was Mafia Goon, the setup was B2. I had to bus my partner D1 since they slipped horribly. They did manage to get the Jailkeeper to out however. I thought I knew who the Tracker was, and I went to go NK them.
They weren't Tracker, but rather VT. The actual Tracker tracked me to the NK. I had to be scum, there was no way I could be Jailkeeper, because if that was the case, the VT wouldn't have died.
I was in the

exact same position you and LCPL were in.

As soon as one of us flipped, the other one got confirmed. If the Tracker was lynched, I would be confirmed as scum, because that means the Tracker is being truthful. If the Jailkeeper was lynched, that confirms I'm scum, since I can't be TPR. Please explain to me why I would gamble that exact same position by risking you not tracking me while I kill FF?

Much less, why would I try to kill FF, who Scum!Me would know is a VT, who's also TRing me, versus a confirmed TPR? If I'm scum, and my partner was lynched, why wouldn't I kill off you so Scum!Me can make up for the loss of my partner? I wouldn't choose to shoot a VT versus a confirmed TPR. Like I said, mafia blundered horribly by killing FF, not you. I pointed that out, meaning I'm aware of that misplay, meaning that Scum!Me would know that's a misplay, and I'd choose to kill you instead.

However, let's say that Scum!Me instead decide to not shoot you, but rather FF. What does that mean for Scum!Me?
- I'm risking instantly losing if you decided to track me.
- I'm allowing you to confirm one other player as Town, which is

really

bad for me.
- I have to play extremely carefully to not get SR'd by the town-confirmed players.
-

NKing FF is a horrible misplay from Scum!Me, which isn't a mistake I would make.

Now, let's look at what happens for Scum!Me shooting you versus FF:
- There is no confirmed townies alive, there's only the pseudo-cleared Flavor.
- Town cannot clear any other players anymore.
- FF, (someone who was heavily TRing me), is still alive, and would (most likely) defend against Scum!Me's lynch.
-

There are no disadvantages to Scum!Me NKing you.

So, please explain to me how I'd misplay

that

badly, and not kill you, much less, decide to kill one of the players TRing me?

P-Edit:

Scum must fall within {Ceejay, Lamees, Flavor}.
If we lynch {Ceejay, Lamees} today, and you track the other, we're guaranteed to solve the game.
If one of them flips red, gg, we win!
If one of them flips green, and the other one visits, gg, we win!
If one of them flips green, and the other one doesn't visit, gg, we win!*

Literally following that yields a win for us.

* - Assuming mafia actually commit a kill. If Mafia do not kill, I'd have to re-work something.

Also, Dojaj, if I'm scum, you'd be dead.

But... wait. So there are 5 players. 1 is a tracker, that makes a scum pool of 4. What kind of plan is "i am town, we lynch 1, and track one of the other 2, but ignore me completely" this screams scum. In fact, I give dojaj permission to track me every night, if i ever say do not track me lynch me instantly. That is giving away a free night kill if you are gonna listen to anyone claiming not to track them.

No, with 5 players, that makes a scumpool of 3. I know I'm Town, and we all know that Dojaj is Town. That leaves {Flavor, Ceejay, Yourself} as the scum-pool. I'm trusting Flavor's self meta + he's been playing really townie this entire time, ergo, I don't think he'll flip scum. That leaves {Ceejay, Yourself} as the scum-pool.

We lynch one, the other is guaranteed to be scum.

Scum must fall within {Ceejay, Lamees, Flavor}.

Also, Dojaj, if I'm scum, you'd be dead.

This proves nothing lol.

I am leaning ceej and korina, fl and doj are town, if dojaj tracks the townie that got night killed again, i will suspect him too.

I'll have to go look at interactions between korina/lcpl and ceej/lcpl[/quote]

Actually, it proves I can't be scum. There are too many downsides to not NKing Dojaj, that it outweights any other NK option.
Second, the whole "if dojaj tracks the player who died again, I'll start thinking he's scum" is not pro-townie thinking.
Dojaj is literally confirmed town. LCPL tried to CC him, and he flipped scum, meaning that Dojaj is telling the truth. No one else has CC'd his claim, meaning his claim is legit.

Call this angle-shooty, but, I'm certain that Lamees is flipping scum. {Flavor, Ceejay, Myself} wouldn't shoot FF, unless we were trying to play 4D chess, and even then, that's a highly risky move to make. It's something that an SE/IC wouldn't make unless they were absolutely sure that they could get away with it. Ceejay is a lurker, and a hindrance in MyLo/LyLo, and he'd get policied before that point.
I wouldn't because I wouldn't risk the possible track on myself, much less try to kill someone heavily TRing them.
That leaves only Flavor as a possibility, however, it's a collective opinion that Flavor is actually town.

That leaves only you Lamees.
My other thought is that the FF NK was because FF was right you were scum.
Because he nailed down that LCPL was scum, you're afraid that he'd do the exact same thing with you, so you NK'd him.

VOTE: Lamees

[Flavor Leaf]

Intent to vote Dojaj

I’m putting the intent to vote because the risk of getting screwed over by ScumDojaj is too high, but I understand how you guys can be weary of me, and I want to have a general consensus instead of just tunneling this, but I do believe this is the right path. Even if it’s incorrect, we at least don’t have to deal with a crappy 1v1 tomorrow.

[Korina]

@Flavor, what you're assuming is that Dojaj is playing 4D chess. You're assuming that LCPL set Dojaj up to play 4D chess.
I don't think either of them would've thought

that

far out to setup such an elaborate gambit.

[Flavor Leaf]

There’s the chance that Dojaj is actually still scum.

If the setup is Mafia Goon/Goon, that means there was a chance for Cop/VT, JK/VT, or Tracker/Doc, meaning that the tracker claim by dojaj had a 2 out of 3 chance to go by safely, and if the setup was Tracker/Doctor, then that would out the tracker with a counterclaim, which was the only thing hat could really catch out scum, as Doctor isn’t inherently dangerous if you can outguess.

This being said, that actually makes the Dojaj vs Jones 1v1 rather solid, and makes sense why Jones would counterclaim in that scenario.

Either one of them could ride off into the sunset potentially afterward.

That being said, Formerfish dying really is what put that into perspective for me. That’s far too risky of a play to make. Dojaj literally hadn’t the opportunity to clear anyone or get a straight up guilty, and I think it made sense for him to investigate any player in this game, however Dojaj by all means should have died. Formerfish was also the one player here who was likely NEVER getting lynched, and once Fish stayed that he didn’t think I was scum, him pushing me to a mislynch flew out the window too.

I think Dojaj is the last scum, and him and Jones set up a nice gambit.

See, this I like. It covers all angles, and takes other things into perspective. But I think we should give dojaj 1 more day, if he tracks the dead townie tomorrow, we got him. I dont wanna mislynch the tracker because of 1 suspicious night kill. Two suspicious night kills will be more appropriate. Also I'm kinda leaning towards dojaj is the tracker because if he was scum:
1) he would have false tracked someone and got them lynched
2) he did suspect/vote for ff yesterday, so maybe he legit thought ff was the scum and tracked

FF was going after Dojaj and that’s why Dojaj voted him.

Also, this is a risky play, because Dojaj can just claim a guilty on someone tomorrow.

What do you do in that scenario? Because tomorrow will be lylo. (Lynch and lose)

Well I was hoping you wouldnt ask that, because if dojaj is even alive tomorrow, we could have got him! but now if anyone else is scum they might just leave him alive and ride the win on his lynch tomorrow.

This could have just been said tomorrow regardless.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Flavor, what you're assuming is that Dojaj is playing 4D chess. You're assuming that LCPL set Dojaj up to play 4D chess.
I don't think either of them would've thought

that

far out to setup such an elaborate gambit.

I don’t think they did think that far out, though, that’s the thing. With this in mind, they KNEW that the setup was either Cop/VT, JK/VT, or Tracker/Doctor. He claimed tracker. Next day, Jones went in for the bus and expected to carry the game off of it. I feel like Jones was the one who was supposed to live.

I don’t think it went as planned at all for them.

Why does Lames kill Formerfish here? I feel they were at risk of being a likely track target.

The only scenario I see as possible outside of DojajScum is ScumCeej who wasn’t really thinking about why they should kill Dojaj in that scenario and decided to reason killing Fish elsewise.

[Flavor Leaf]

To be fair, I could be so far up Lames pocket I don’t even realize it, which is why they’ve been town reading me hard all game, but I would have gotten to that tomorrow likely.

[Korina]

Alright.
Let's try this out.

VOTE: Dojaj

[Korina]

Flavor, I need you to trust me on this one as well.
That's all I can really say on this.

[Korina]

Flavor, I need you to trust me on this one as well.
That's all I can really say on this.

This being my vote on Dojaj.