Micro 826: Double Day Unlimited (Game Over)

[Katyusha]

writes a lot of senseless walls talking to himself pretending he knows what hes talking about

anyway this is a towntell

[Katyusha]

ok i typo'd the quote; i said that

my point me pediting posts made the conversation confusing im following exactly what you're saying

[Katyusha]

*my point is

pedit: yeah thats how scumhunting works

[Katyusha]

you realize she'd be voting aero or you here right

[Katyusha]

or kmd

literally everyone but the team you're pushing

[Katyusha]

whats wrong with mine

[Katyusha]

he made his prod lmao so he's In The Game

[Katyusha]

n_m has two viable partners, one of which is aeronaut

aeronaut has 5 viable partners, one of which is n_m

why would n_m ever be the correct lynch here unless you're 100% sure oka is scum

[Katyusha]

saudade out here speaking one truth in thread and another in site chat who knew he could be so two faced

[Katyusha]

yeah thats why u scumread naso despite the fact that honestly should have cleared him

[Katyusha]

uh a few? i've definitely gotten close before

plus this is a micro there's only so many slots so reading for associatives is kind of huge in a way it just isn't plausible to in a mini or a large

[Katyusha]

thats how scumhunting works

[Katyusha]

neither can i but that's because im a 16 year old who uses tumblr

[Katyusha]

n_m specifically decided to adopt a new playstyle of shitposting specifically for this game because oka's such a tryhard

[Katyusha]

I guess closing thoughts, I'd pick Oka as probably scum if anyone. He'd be dead otherwise.

this is kind of a bad argument because scum have less nightkills and cheeky was equally townread by people actively posting in thread :/

but i guess from your perspective the team is either oka/n_m or kmd/saud or some galaxy brain team w me in it so that's fair. hopefully your replacement was keeping up with the game if you are in fact tow and it's one of those teams so it's fair

sorry bro

[Katyusha]

n_m thoughts on the repalce out

[Katyusha]

i mean yes but like alignment wise do you think it's meaningful

also *replace lmoa

[Katyusha]

oh thank god it's someone easy to read

hi gamma i think you're scum!

[Katyusha]

him

i dont want to reveal my Tell but he can seem like airhead and has a very confusing way of approaching mafia which leads to him getting mislynched a lot - but once you get to know him better it's kind of easy to read him

generally spammy and speaks his mind, can be a bit literal at times, is generally nice to play with if you're not a jerk to him

[Katyusha]

idk you dont have the same lynchbait aura he does

[Katyusha]

aero if you're town you need to break down why Saud/KMD is the team for me or why I'm wrong about any n_m team since from my pov I think he can only be scum with you. Otherwise not lynching you here is absolutely asinine and requires justifying Oka or me!scum. If two scum were on both wagons we need to showcase that because as it is most of the teams where that is true have strong negative associations that make them really unlikely. I acknowledge bussing is a thing and that people like to overbus, but N_M isn't stupid and I don't think KMD tries to undermine his partner's position when there's really no point to do so. If, say, Performer or Naso were scum then I could buy there being distancing (or you/n_m being plausible distancing) but it just does not fit with anyone alive. Saudade

would

hardbus but in n_m/saudade n_m is the one bussing, and kmd/saudade is not a team that needs to bus, except maybe in lylo where it doesn't even net towncred at that point.

no one has really given a good reason to contest any of the claims i've made wrt preflip teams and i feel i've adequately explained why they are what I think they are. aero not only is the scummiest slot alive in the game (this has been the case since D1 but obviously lynching him was incredibly impractical and saudade/n_m/kmd kind of cockblocked it into being between naso/saudade which is why theyre all viable partners here. read barely has developed past my initial feelings and most of the gamestate has just validated that) but partner interactions lead him to being the correct POE lynch.

anyway gamma most of this applies to your slot in general ^

if you're town the two realities i'm seeing right now are:

• KMD/Saud is the scumteam
  
• Oka is scum with basically anyone

so if you're town and haven't been reading along that's the starting point i recommend investigating

if you have your own organic thoughts from before though that'd be cool too

[Katyusha]

im sensing negative chakra

pedit: that's literally what i just asked him to do

[Katyusha]

FYI I’m just here for Katyusha, but I’ll work to solve the game I guess

[Katyusha]

read my iso and read my play there and tell me what you get first, i'm genuinely curious

i'll dig up a link if you need it

[Katyusha]

ftr i will answer gamma's question but i want to hear gamma's thought process first just so I dont like Meta Myself for him because i tend to do stuff like that

[Katyusha]

hm

in retrospect though do you think you can pin down what was scummy about my play in grendel's game? just as a followup to the what's town about katy here

[Katyusha]

i think you can search my username's posts?

iso'ing on that site has always been more of a bitch than i am tho iirc some posts just dont show up for whatever reason

the site is just poorly coded and you can even see that in the markup lmao

pedit: yeah on it

[Katyusha]

oh wow gamma's on the ball

also awwww this is when i still wasnt completely out <3

[Katyusha]

i'm gigabyteTroubadour btw but i think the flowercrown debs kind of gives that away

[Katyusha]

uh basically the entire game was house (twiszted) being annoying and hardpushing awful reads while getting scumread for fakeclaiming bodyguard "since it's a shitty role", i hard defended him the whole time since he's in my List of People I Can Meta Accurately, ginngie openwolfed and nancy defended her for no reason and got away with it, i dodged two guilties on me, and town just kind of wanted to mislynch itself but not the people i wanted to mislynch which resulted in me having to make really awkward compromises

[Katyusha]

basically it was a clusterfuck that was fun to watch as scum but probably really depressing to be in as town

[Katyusha]

yeah

if it werent someone you knew or could know i wouldn't have said anything lmao

[Katyusha]

im sad now

is wolfing terminology that comes from that website? afaik i never really heard of terms like open wolfing and wolfy and terminology like that until i played w nancy and now im hearing it a lot more

the website was an invitational grendel (from ms) made for some of his friends - house just kind of randomly appeared there and ginngie was brought in as a replacement via nancy. the non ms people are from starmen.net (which incidentally is gamma's homesite)

wolfing is like an mu thing and i am kind of known for disliking mu but openwolfing just kind of? evokes the right feeling that i'm trying to convey and there isnt really an equivalent that's consistent w ms terms

[Katyusha]

yeah it's wild that there's like a real community for this specific game - i never realized how big it was until i like made friends with people on here

this is basically the only site i play on though - i've been asked to play a few offsite games but i usually dont have the drive to stay with them

[Katyusha]

i dont think either oka or n_m are scum and none of your reasons are compelling to me sorry

thoughts on why scum didn't hammer you btw? all town sans n_m voted for you which means that one scum was off your hammer and decided to not hammer you

[Katyusha]

his only viable partners are oka, who is town, me, who is town, and gamma, who we're letting catch up

he literally has the least amount of viable partners and i dont want to fuck up again like i did with naso - he has a thought process and is actually starting to townpost

this isnt obvtown n_m but it's town n_m more often than not

[Katyusha]

like if you actually think the team is n_m/oka you should be pushing oka not n_m since oka has more potential partners and it shows you're not just trying to skate by by pushing the easiest lynch

[Katyusha]

my lynch order is gamma -> kmd -> saud so no

i think on a gamma red flip kmd is more likely to be the partner just because i think aero was trying to whiteknight naso and saudade but all town wagon composition (sans n_m who isn't confirmed) looks pretty bad in this situation

pedit: you've only given reasoning that theyre a team together, which isnt even real reasoning ("theyre opposites" is not... a real reason). why is oka scum specifically? I see his spitballing with himself as genuine town scumhunting and I've mostly agreed with what he's pushing, why am I town when I've been doing that as well and why is he scum for it?

[Katyusha]

because we've literally never agreed with anything this game and you've done practically nothing to change my mind while coincidentally i threw my hands in the air and gave up since i thought you only got wagonned as town and lynched naso, and while i was arguing that there has to be one scum in aero/performer you voted performer

why is this only clear to you now

[Katyusha]

ftr i reisod oka to see his saudade thoughts early game and all i really got out of it is that he's having trouble reading you? i dont really see how that's unreasonable, you know as well as everyone else here that you're a good scum player and charismatic in general and your play has been universally tough to pin down. im having trouble finding anything oka is saying about you that's really unfair

pedit: i feel like it's better to reblog shitposts to express yourself or something, tumblr isnt really the right medium for blogging

[Katyusha]

i meant during D1P1 gamms. We're basically in a gamestate where everyone off-wagon was flipped except for you, the person who died argued it was one on/one off and I agree since only 1 2 on pairing makes any sense (kmd/saudade). This is obviously assuming Oka town. both of the counterwagons to the flip were pushed by all town + n_m, which I think points to one scum within you/saudade and n_m town bare minimum.

I acknowledge I was the one who chose to hammer NASO and that my reasoning was wrong (I argued that Saudade probably doesn't get wagonned as scum, but most of the people who pushed him were town), but I don't understand why scum!Oka doesn't choose to mislynch Saudade when he absolutely had the opening to if he's scum. I think me being the hammerer points to inactive/unwilling scum (your slot, as aero kind of waffly argued naso was town) or both scum being on the wagon.

pedit: you do realize we only have 2 days extra right? we kind of had D1P1 be too long if anything

lurkers mostly made this game difficult

[Katyusha]

gamma why are you scum posting

[Katyusha]

gamma why are you scum posting

are you asking your top scumread slot why is he scum posting

[Katyusha]

Why doesn’t it look like you’re actually trying to read me Kat?

You don't know my thought process and I've intentionally have been opaque about it?

Just finish catching up and lmk what your reads are.

[Katyusha]

Lynch my god damn scumreads

what else have we been doing

[Katyusha]

Gamma had a scum replace in so far, oka and saud are still shitfighting

[Katyusha]

the gamestate is basically around gamma catching up and evaluating his thoughts

at least for me rn

[Katyusha]

Yeah, I thought the same thing but I'm rationalizing it by Aero scumclaiming by selfing or continuing to prodge would probably solidify that town is right, if he's scum I think he does the same thing.

I concede that that's kind of confbiased reasoning, but I don't really know how to explore Oka!scum worlds and I'm hoping Gamma helps with that if he's town. I don't think anything Saudade has argued is compelling and he absolutely can be scum here.

[Katyusha]

saudade/gamma
kmd/gamma
----
n_m/gamma
----
n_m/oka
oka/gamma
----
kmd/oka
----

kmd/n_m

saudade/n_m

saudade/oka

top being most likely, bottom and crossed out being impossible imo

interesting that saudade has only one viable partner though

[Katyusha]

kmd/oka is down a tier because that implies Aero and Saudade were being wagonned entirely by town and also town themselves, which I think is kind of dumb but there isn't an interaction that makes me think it's like, impossible.

[Katyusha]

placement within tiers is also equal fwiw

[Katyusha]

saudade/gamma
kmd/gamma
----
kmd/saudade
n_m/gamma
----
n_m/oka
oka/gamma
----
kmd/oka
----
kmd/n_m
saudade/n_m
saudade/oka

sorry for spamming lol, just realized i left out a pretty important team :/

[Katyusha]

Alright something's not right here and I don't like where this sh!t is going
VOTE: unvote not mafia
VOTE: unvote oka poka

what's on your mind

[Katyusha]

if you're paranoid about me being scum (really the only person who in this table I think is really "outplaying" if theyre scum that's not oka??) i think meta'ing me pretty clearly shows i'm town at this point

Kat why do you townread OkaPoka?

His thought process is super genuine, he's always been taking his own initiative in scumhunting, I like the way he talks to himself in his walls and is always spitballing ideas. If he's scum I'm royally screwing something up in terms of how I'm scumhunting right now

[Katyusha]

Like there's definitely an argument where Oka is scum here and shot Cheeky because she was starting to doubt him and scum would rather off me so that they fight if they're both town, but that's just NKA and a pretty shitty reason to ignore the rest of his play.

[Katyusha]

I think scum!Oka comes off more robotic in tone too, just a feeling I get from having a kinship with how I described Gamma. He's definitely in the same vein in terms of Logic vs Feeling but that's not really what I mean by robotic. Like KMD is a "logical" rather than "emotional" player in terms of how he thinks but he never reads robotically as either align.

Tone is definitely not why I'm townreading him though

pedit: All good points too

[Katyusha]

speaking of being confident in my reads i kind of want to stop using teams as a crutch but like my read on the aero slot has barely developed beyond d1 and I don't really have a real reason to scumread kmd/saudade beyond poe

like i can definitely point to reasons to townread kmd, i can point to reasons to townread saudade. i absolutely cannot rationalize town!aero beyond his replaceout but that's solely from d1 play/disconnection from thread on his return

[Katyusha]

which is why i'm glad gamma's in the slot, having something more tangible than poe is always useful and if i'm wrong i'll be able to see it pretty easily I think. im? just not sure why i'd be wrong anymore because i feel like my initial view of the game was just always right and i kind of bent over because i have zero self confidence in myself as a player

Where did Gamma go

oooff

now do you see why i'm scumreading him? :/

obviously that's not the only thing but i think that's ai

[Katyusha]

you're... not going to have any luck like that

n_m kind of functions in his own way and while i normally sympathize with people who want to policy lynch obstructive players, town!n_m is actually helpful most the time and isn't deserving of it. scum!n_m is a cheeky fuck who relies on his reputation to get away with scum moves

pedit (i was talking to schadd while writing this lol):

n_m is town because early on i agreed with his thought process and saw through it with his votes. the same is true wrt his aeronaut interactions and I also think he literally doesnt make sense with anyone as scum fmpov except for Oka and like? somewhat aero but I'm losing faith in that read now that I'm thinking about it.

kmd I don't really have a tangible reason to suspect besides thinking you're somewhat more likely town. Aero's posting around you felt like tmi most of the time. Both of you make sense as aero partners when looking at the gamestate since both of you have been pushing away from lynching him.

aero's scum because I thought his Cheeky posts were a really unfair way of viewing her way of scumhunting and his posting around NASO had a weird cognitive dissonance (i think in one post he was like "oh naso just seems weird because he's not from our meta - he's probably town" and then speculates about the scum motive of why naso was so self-conscious). I think him saying that only KMD and Oka are playing well is super disingenuous as well, like have I not been scumhunting and writing good posts? Cheeky played fine as well.

pedit: addressing gamma next post

[Katyusha]

I think this probabilistic approach is kinda a circle-jerk. If it were a setup designed for it, like Scumteam Unpick or Team Odds, I’d find it fair, but this setup doesn’t have those mechanics in place to make it more than speculation.

Sure, but we're basically at lylo and we have enough flips and content to think about interactions and few enough slots were we can see things fall into place. We can basically count the amount of teams that make sense on our hands.

There's nothing stopping you from discussing a possibility we've collectively eliminated if you disagree with the reasoning we gave or truly believe in it.

Where are you rn in terms of reads?

[Katyusha]

explain both of those because i expect literally neither of those from you

i guess you being unsure of me is expected especially after that game but like I'm Clearly Town by Meta

[Katyusha]

ok i guess those are believable gamma reads

have you only read beyond your replace in?

[Katyusha]

i ask bc i think having some sense of the game's dynamic would kind of explain why oka is interacting with saudade like that

like you've seen town!me get annoyed by people doing stupid shit as town before, right?

pedit: probably but i genuinely don't think n_m's playstyle is always that bad? while i dont want to link the game because it was even more of a disaster i've seen n_m play in a really obvtown way that was fairly accurate and also like still a n_m approach

saudade is a bit tougher for me to really feel because i don't actually feel like i know his alignment this game

[Katyusha]

like n_m is kind of an easy target when i think there's genuinely worse players that i dont really want to name To Be Nice and are actually deserving of policy lynches on sight

[Katyusha]

ok cool

i think your slot's town perspective is kind of interesting so like i think getting a sense of why the cheeky/katy/oka townbloc formed would probably be better for your reads

[Katyusha]

there isn't really a direction beyond like... reading D1P1? the bloc formed kind of organically until it was super clear it was A Thing

[Katyusha]

at this right im not sure about anything but if i'm going to say something and stick to it, n_m and oka are both town

which is why i'm having a hard time reconciliating with like anything you're pushing

[Katyusha]

* at this rate

[Katyusha]

UNVOTE: Oka Poka
UNVOTE: Cheeky Teeky
UNVOTE: Not_Mafia

absolutely reasonable page 1 townreads, i had them both as town at the same time

Ok, I'm going to probably hammer NM. I think going into probably a 6 player day, having a player that's near impossible to read is going to lose us the game.

Does anyone have really strong back-able objections to that?

What an achingly dull post

Ok, I'm going to probably hammer NM. I think going into

probably a 6 player day

, having a player that's near impossible to read is going to lose us the game.

Does anyone have really

strong back-able

objections to that?

Who talks like this?

literally had the same thought when i saw those posts

[Katyusha]

and i dont feel like n_m is taking advantage of "meta" the way he would as scum

like he's not just mindlessly lolhammering people and getting away with it for example, and he's not brainlessly just voting everyone. sure he's not being *punished* but is his play someone thinking he can take advantage of that?

[Katyusha]

that's true, i was kind of implying he'd play differently to enable him to but the more important point is that i dont think he's playing in a like... deliberately pro-scum way

sure maybe it's anti town to play like he is but i dont think it's specifically to scum benefit. it's just annoying if you dont like reading n_m which i think applies to most of this table

[Katyusha]

if he's scum i think the reason is because he was too 1 dimensional on saudade and only started actually townposting after he got wagonned

but that also insinuates you or gamma scum, and more than likely the former

[Katyusha]

when i was initially pushing n_m town for the first point i just gave, kmd shot it down and actually looked into the meta I gave

i dont think he has much reason to do so when getting n_m townread means that he doesn't have to be the only one endgaming

[Katyusha]

“Anyone can be scum with anyone” is kind of lazy - part of townplay is to eliminate what’s the least likely

if you want to put something i’ve eliminated on the table again what’s stopping you?

And like I’m going to openly admit I’m using team poe as a crutch but that’s bc my d1p1 scumread basically hasn’t posted

[Katyusha]

Gamma hasn’t posted anything game advancing - like idk what his final solve is and his reason for fosing Oka is kind of..? Not satisfying and more indicative of him not finishing reading

And sure saud? Btw out of curiosity what’s your homesite. Just had a thought and I wanna see if it has validity

[Katyusha]

I am yreah

How much time do we need for lylo if he’s town?

We probably have Saudade and n_m crossvote in that world, then it’s just a matter of reading them

Which is like. A tough task I guess

[Katyusha]

It’s Gamma so if he gets to prodding then I’m fine hammering

[Katyusha]

Then why is Oka scum

[Katyusha]

a 64 page game and the girl townreads him because she sympathizes with his one-liners
oh boy

what is this even supposed to mean

[Katyusha]

I don’t think anyone’s objected to my wagon at all
I want people to think about that and what it means (read: I’m probably not scum)

people pushing you include kmd/n_m/me/oka and saudade is opposing you

you said earlier you scumread oka

thus that means at least one scum is pushing you and you think it's oka, right? if i'm wrong let me know

[Katyusha]

the deeper point i'm getting at is that i don't have the insider knowledge that you're town and think that either kmd is bussing you to lynch saudade and oka at endgame or that saudade doesn't want to lynch his partner more than likely

meaning that i need like, reasons from your vantage point to scumread oka

[Katyusha]

yeah that's fine/what i was getting at

[Katyusha]

... gamma the game is waiting on you to catch up lol

[Katyusha]

“Why is Oka scum” or “Why is it KMD/Saudade” are like the basic questions i’d like answers to when u get back assuming you don’t think I’m off the mark in the town!You version of the game

[Katyusha]

the deeper point i'm getting at is that i don't have the insider knowledge that you're town and think that either kmd is bussing you to lynch saudade and oka at endgame or that saudade doesn't want to lynch his partner more than likely

meaning that i need like, reasons from your vantage point to scumread oka

Saudade and oka? I thought you said I'm next if gamma is scum. Am I misremembering that?

i mean if you're scum the lynches you need are saudade and oka

im honestly unsure if you're next at this point, too *shrug*

[Katyusha]

“Why is Oka scum” or “Why is it KMD/Saudade” are like the basic questions i’d like answers to when u get back assuming you don’t think I’m off the mark in the town!You version of the game

Is thee a reason you’re not including NM?

yeah i poe'd him down two only two viable partners in you and oka, so if you disagree with that argument that's on the table. otherwise oka has more content and is a more difficult lynch so if you're town and genuinely believe he's scum that shouldn't be an issue

[Katyusha]

for the record i think gamma's play thus far is far more indicative of his scum meta but i still want to give him a chance in case i'm wrong

or if he's just like. off and town i'd like to at least hear an alternate perspective of the game before we commit to a lynch

kmd you are a valid poopy head dont let n_m make u feel bad for it

[Katyusha]

i mean

i think your question was kind of a good way of making sure he's not stalling...

if he is though yeah powerlynch that and move on

[Katyusha]

This game's so lost

I mean

We haven’t had Real Content from this slot (which you townread??) so I don’t see why you wouldn’t want to wait

[Katyusha]

This game's so lost

Just the implication I got here

Not like rushing a gamma lynch but like rushing an Oka lynch or something

[Katyusha]

I have been pulling 2 consecutive 8am - 11pm days of Work forgive me I’m a college student with no concept of time management

what I wrote there made sense in my head i’ll Rephrase tomorrow

[Katyusha]

I forgot to mention lack of sleep

[Katyusha]

I’m doing both

[Katyusha]

<:/

I’m gonna scream if he doesn’t get a twilight LFMFAOOOO

[Katyusha]

what are you studying kat

information systems

@gamma how far are you into the catchup? thoughts so far?

Not very
I realized a page or so in that since Katy is part of the townbloc I should start at when she replaced in, and that is what need to do next

so like are you still at "eh" for me

Hmm
I think NM is scum tbh
I ISOed him for a quick overview of his play and it doesn’t look like what he does as town

sure from your pov this is likely (which means it's probably oka/n_m), but like can you expand on why

[Katyusha]

Btw if Aero slot flips town I’m lynching the dirty pinko

i'd probably deserve it but im significantly out of my scumrange at this point lol

[Katyusha]

im a full blown red but who else would that apply to

[Katyusha]

I feel like his play doesn’t add anything to the game

can you give an instance where you felt his play has added anything to the game?

i like disagree his play hasnt added anything to the game btw but i dont think that matters in evaluating if this is a town thought or not

[Katyusha]

I feel like his play doesn’t add anything to the game

can you give an instance where you felt his play has added anything to the game?

i like disagree his play hasnt added anything to the game btw but i dont think that matters in evaluating if this is a town thought or not

^ i meant "to a game" here as in another game

i cant recall the last time i've seen gamma read n_m

[Katyusha]

honestly im close to giving the ok at this point i just like want to make sure i have some form of a direction to go if gamma is town and scum!n_m speedvotes me (but if gamma isnt scumreading oka then either he gives a reason it could be saud/n_m or kmd/n_m which is useful too)

i think there's like a 2% chance that happens (and a 3% chance n_m is town and it's saud/kmd but that doesn't really matter since we just Lose if n_m speedvotes me then) so i dont particularly

care

but we have like a little bit around 2 weeks for LYLO which is enough considering the POE rn

if n_m doesn't speedvote me i think the best plan is n_m and saudade crossvoting ftr

pedit: cool

[Katyusha]

literally have the opposite impression and started thinking it's saud/gamma lmfao

[Katyusha]

if saud is town and gamma is scum then he literally had upside-down reads for the entire game sans like my slot - is he really that bad of a player? i HIGHLY highly highly doubt that

and honestly i think aero having a double standard on how he treated naso and saudade as lynchbaits might just be flat out partner indicative and not like a red herring like i initially would think

[Katyusha]

Why dont you want to play my game Katyusha

what game

also do you like not see how gamma is playing to his scum game? i'll like. explain it once i feel like i got everything i need from him but im like firm in saying he's scum 95% of the time

Полюшко-поле,
Полюшко, широко поле.
Едут по полю герои,
Эх, да Красной Армии герои!

yreah

[Katyusha]

uh no because you have fairly high scum equity and unless n_m goes and votes me during lylo instantly im choosing between you/kmd and n_m/oka scumteams

[Katyusha]

[Katyusha]

im not a child

gamma is also like literally right there

[Katyusha]

Katyusha : That's just his meta how dare you question notmaf and his 4 titties

did i say that?

no

i agree that what gamma pointed out from n_m is scum indicative of him, that's something i noticed

the difference here is that n_m has actually done other things but i'm going to read gamma's specific games

[Katyusha]

n_m is town because early on i agreed with his thought process and saw through it with his votes. the same is true wrt his aeronaut interactions and I also think he literally doesnt make sense with anyone as scum fmpov except for Oka and like? somewhat aero but I'm losing faith in that read now that I'm thinking about it.

he's been playing truthfully to his "will unvote on a townread" early game and had genuine times to change his reads, i liked his interactions with your slot eod1 (think of how he could be wrong town and look at it that way)

n_m started changing his tune like way after i floated him as scum for being one-dimensional so i legitimately think it was aero's posting that made him react like that and that's town indicative

[Katyusha]

iso 1-43 in the 3 in one game is totally in line with this game

[Katyusha]

so how long of a lylo do we want

[Katyusha]

right

saud are you gonna vote for oka and n_m or what

[Katyusha]

wouldnt you bill me since im asking kmd to not hammer

[Katyusha]

that's fair

[Katyusha]

yeah we know





im tempted to just say fuck it and tell kmd to hammer as soon as gamma just like yolo's a team since he's saying n_m is scum but oka is town so like

[Katyusha]

you act like people arent mean to me every day lmao i dont give a shit

[Katyusha]

name a team gamma and we'll be well on our way

[Katyusha]

Kat what is the square root of X squared

sqrt(x^2)?=

is this supposed to be like a difficult question or do oyu need help with like your algebra homework

|x|

[Katyusha]

gamma speed it up and just pick one of these:

n_m/oka
kmd/saudade
kmd/oka (this means two all-town wagons on town scum didn't hammer in favor of both being on the mislynch, take as you will)

[Katyusha]

the game isnt moving on anyway and without a really good argument you arent going to swing the lynch onto oka/n_m while we're in 6p

i'm not voting that until lylo, n_m won't self vote, oka won't self vote, you/kmd/gamma is only three people

[Katyusha]

eddie cane

[Katyusha]

ok cool if you flip town i will reread oka closer

kmd i'm cool with a hammer

[Katyusha]

if anyone wanted to know the meta reasoning for thinking he's scum town!gamma is way more likely to not roll over and die like this and i think he's more assertive as town

he also kind of feels robotic tonally and i also think he's capable of catching up

[Katyusha]

oh by the way the next read you out we'll hammer you!!!

at this rate i was letting gamma stall

[Katyusha]

gamma i think recognizes as either alignment he's in a doomed slot, he's gonna call people out for their bullshit as town as a result (or at least like. acknowledge that)

[Katyusha]

if gamma is town then not mafia being scum is literally equal to oka being scum so i mean

[Katyusha]

i'd want to research it for myself first

from the last oka scumgame i read he seems significantly townier here

[Katyusha]

like literally the only possible teams are:

gamma/anyone
oka/n_m
you/kmd

pedit: it wasn't from that long ago people don't improve from just one game lmoa

[Katyusha]

don't break your character
remain consistent

[Katyusha]

oka didnt break character lol

[Katyusha]

if anyone wanted to know the meta reasoning for thinking he's scum town!gamma is way more likely to not roll over and die like this and i think he's more assertive as town

he also kind of feels robotic tonally and i also think he's capable of catching up

Plus this legit not how I am anymore
I’m honestly more likely to roll over as town I think

really? huh.

[Katyusha]

sure

[Katyusha]

what would the point of lynching n_m be unless you think n_m/kmd is a team

[Katyusha]

tbh i guess one of saudade/nm being scum makes sense since that'd ensure that there wasnt any all-town-wagons-on-town

i dont think? it's a bad assumption that scum aren't expecting 5 towns to lynch 1 more town player right now and it'd better explain why the gamestate keeps stalling

[Katyusha]

aww mod is online kmd could have hammered and we could have gotten resolution

[Katyusha]

im gonna sleep but i dont think gamma stalling will be any more productive

if gamma's open to changing my mind he's more than welcome

[Katyusha]

i mean thats what i was hoping for

[Katyusha]

sure hope i didnt throw the whole game and also lose my ability to read gamma :L

[Katyusha]

assuming townflip

if n_m speedvotes me im not worried about losing (assuming he's scum) because i think i can comfortably explain why i'm out of my scumrange. i feel like scum!him would be choking though here unless I'm wrong about a partner read? if he flips red, my suspect list becomes oka > kmd > saudade.

if n_m thinks but still suspects me i'm happy to talk it out. i still think fmpov it's kmd/saud vs oka/n_m and believe the best course of action would be to have n_m and saudade crossvote. i don't really know what negative associations i have with anyone, the only slot i really feel like i couldn't theoretically be scum with is aero here but that tends to be a consequence of being widely townread

scumflip i want saudade first instead of kmd now and thats about it. i think seeing a red flip would basically validate i've been reading the game right and just made shitty compromises D1

[Katyusha]

i preflip speculate every lynch lmao

and also always assume it flips town even if im like confident in my read

[Katyusha]

gamma flipping town means lylo and heavy reevaluation

gamma flipping scum means easy game

[Katyusha]

actually mad at myself

[Katyusha]

Vote Count #1.6 (unchanged):

notasexualobject

:

Not_Mafia, Kmd4390, Saudade, OkaPoka (4)

Saudade:

Not_Mafia,

CheekyTeeky

,

notasexualobject

,

Performer

(4)

Aeronaut

:

Not_Mafia,

CheekyTeeky

,

notasexualobject

, Katyusha (4)

Katyusha:

Not_Mafia (1)

Not_Mafia:

Kmd4390 (1)

Performer

:

Not_Mafia (1)

Kmd4390:

Not_Mafia (1)

Not Voting:

Aeronaut

With 9 players alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

V/LA:

None.

Deadline:

(expired on 2018-10-10 20:50:00)

[Katyusha]

i was going to tell myself to start by following cheeky but she's suspected everyone alive so far sans myself

[Katyusha]

the vcs are telling me that scum basically voteparked and let town mislynch itself

ie n_m looks worse

[Katyusha]

saudade how would you feel about confirming it's not katy/oka right now

or are you not confident enough yet

[Katyusha]

100% understand not wanting to listen to me here even though this is like the only read i've actually lead on

pedit: thought it was obv - vote n_m now, let me and oka post in succession, unvote afterwards

[Katyusha]

i guess i did lead one on/one off which we now know is 100% false

[Katyusha]

i listened to you on naso shut up

literally every town player this game had bad reads in some regard

[Katyusha]

hun i'm asking if you want to clear me and oka together as a team not declaring that i think n_m is scum i'm not voting

[Katyusha]

whatever

im going to sleep on this

[Katyusha]

i'd link to games where i've done quickhammer sorting on reads i'm confident in but this is probably not a game i should bother in

i havent been in lylo in a while

[Katyusha]

oka do you feel you'd be able to play a game like this as scum

[Katyusha]

fwiw i thought skitter was obvious scum in that situation because schadd i can townlock easily (knew it was his alt from like the first post) and there was like no reason for her to still be alive but i get it. i've done that before too but i was asking to test a pairing i know is wrong lol. i dont make plays when i know there's an actual risk and i thought kmd wasnt online

and ok that kind of changes things. im gonna probably Read tomorrow

pedit: the one with blackvoid was definitely bad townplay because i read you differently there lmao

[Katyusha]

are you telling me you have a history of being unable to read okapoka incorrectly?

no just when you started calling him scum i looked at a recent scum game and was like "yeah this looks significantly different"

i'll relook i guess because im not really set on it being kmd/saud vs n_m/oka especially after cheeky said she didnt think kmd/saud was svs

[Katyusha]

Your lack of trust in me is going to end us Katyusha

i honestly cant trust anything the like 1 read i had all game was wrong and besides cheeky the 1 townread i had is probably wrong too so i mean

[Katyusha]

how sure are you that we can rule out not_mafia/Saudade or oka/Saudade?

not at all

i'm still a bit busy today but i really want to just revisit the full game because i don't think it's as easy as kmd/saudade vs oka/n_m

[Katyusha]

changed my mind i think we can eliminate those

[Katyusha]

thought about it for the entire day but im back on kmd/saudade vs oka/n_m being the possible teams and am heavily leaning the latter

want to do a full reread though

[Katyusha]

i'm actually thinking that because oka is scum and you're now my strongest townread

oka scum/saudade scum seems kind of nonsensical? like it's *possible* i guess, especially if i were in full "listen to cheeky" mode, but what was his scum agenda this game? that's like what i'm having trouble nailing down and why i like n_m better as the partner

[Katyusha]

^correction: I see you are already voting booth of them. So instead I'll ask this - why the self preservation votes already?

It's less of a survivalist attitude, and more of a "oshit there's going to a mislynch already without much discussion." Odd question though, "already". I don't understand this part. I've seen that typically self-preservation votes aren't accepted as town, but is there a point in time it is? Is it too early for me to be concerned about being lynched?

I mean...if deadline is like an hour away, a townie is at L-1 with intent declared, and they have a chance to hammer someone else, Id be surprised if they didn't. But seeing self preservation when half the game still has an RVS mindset is concerning.

That's fair. I hadn't realized I was being scummy up until I was called out for it. I found no reason to hide it because I hadn't realized that it pointed in the direction of me being scum.

Yikes...

I am hesitant to push this because he seems to have no qualms about revealing his intentions, though this mindset is still concerning.

I don't think he realizes how bad it sounds though and would probably hide if if he did. He basically said as much while responding to you.

believe it or not this is the post that swayed me

like oka's interactions with naso are just grimey in general but i think the interaction here doesn't come from svs and on your case it's a genuine attempt to connect and relate to someone seeing a similar read to you

just how oka seems to talk about naso feels like he's directly trying to put it in a specific box and talking at him, if that makes any sense

[Katyusha]

i dont think it's ever n_m/saudade because n_m finds a different lynchbait to spam "lynch x lynch x" about if saudade is actually about to die still

above clears oka/kmd

saudade/oka is? questionable but i think it's just around the point where they can distance and I guess that team is banking on me lynching whatever decoy partner there is today. i wont eliminate it i guess

nothing stops oka/n_m

[Katyusha]

N_M why aren't you voting me?

[Katyusha]

sure

[Katyusha]

I'm mostly focusing on D1 because that's before the gamestate seemed to turn into a Partially-Sheep-Katyusha-Down-A-Cliff circlejerk - I think before scum have a crutch of a loud, vocal townie to latch onto it's easier to catch fake thoughts.

Oka is also clearly a high content, high energy player and once the gamestate works out it's easier to get into the "groove" and post townier - hence why it was so easy for me to solidify my townread when he was making similar spitbally posts as I was.

@performer, aww thanks :3 means a lot to hear my play complimented

@saudude, how would you recommend us play this early stage of the game then?

@notasexualobject, whats ur experience with mafia and forum mafia?

if im right it appears we all have checked in

Okay, so if notasexualobject is indeed an experienced player/

im not entirely what to make of him being "pressured" into voting n_m in a jokey way
and also not entirely sure what to make of it because he was already voting him

~an observation~

I don't really like this observation at all - how was NASO pressured at all to vote n_m? He just kind of went for it at this point. This is the first instance we see of Oka applying motivations to other people without really having a reason to. Sure, sometimes I do that to people when I'm reading them (assume they vote with me because they think I'm town since they went with my rvs vote while I did something townie, think someone is trying to rile someone up for reactions when they're just memeing, etc), but what's different here is that Oka is trying to apply an intention to it. There isn't really a specific motivation behind giving someone a townread, while feeling pressured to do something insinuates scum motive.

Part of me thinks that the first question was meant to deliberately create a narrative where NASO should have more experience but I might be giving that thought way more credence than it deserves. It's highlighted though because Oka was at least thinking about Naso's experience.

Heyo, I'm L-1 rn. Brilliant.

Anyways, I can't tell whether Saudade is scum or just being obnoxious about how boring this game is, either way, I'd be down to find out.

Oka seems to be scumhunting moreso than townhunting, so I'm willing to bet their town now.

No idea what to think of Not_Mafia, as him voting everyone and then unvoting on a townread is a common occurrence.

I'm going to be dropping this VOTE: Saudade because I don't feel comfortable with him having fewer votes then me.

This post worries me.

You are overtly stating that one of your primary reasons for dropping this vote is to equalize the vote count on you and Saudade to be the same. It concerns me because this is a scum mindset to have, especially this early in game, I can find no reason to have such a seriously survivalist attitude as town. However, it also bewilders me that you are so openly stating that you are voting Saudade because of your current predicament, I would think that scum would at least make an attempt at guising their deceit and true intentions rather than being so open with it.In essence, I find your mindset more likely to come from scum but I find your actions and words unlikely to come from scum.

Meh, originally I had a direction I was going to go with this but while I was typing I don't really know so this post is kind of meaningless but I figured I'd throw out my analysis out there for others to read and chime in.

More "this is what you're doing"-esque thoughts. I think the kind of waffling he has here is also indicative of him knowing that NASO is town here. For comparison, look at how KMD and I talk about NASO:

Spoiler:

^correction: I see you are already voting booth of them. So instead I'll ask this - why the self preservation votes already?

It's less of a survivalist attitude, and more of a "oshit there's going to a mislynch already without much discussion." Odd question though, "already". I don't understand this part. I've seen that typically self-preservation votes aren't accepted as town, but is there a point in time it is? Is it too early for me to be concerned about being lynched?

I mean...if deadline is like an hour away, a townie is at L-1 with intent declared, and they have a chance to hammer someone else, Id be surprised if they didn't. But seeing self preservation when half the game still has an RVS mindset is concerning.

That's fair. I hadn't realized I was being scummy up until I was called out for it. I found no reason to hide it because I hadn't realized that it pointed in the direction of me being scum.

Yikes...

I don't think he realizes how bad it sounds though and would probably hide if if he did. He basically said as much while responding to you.

Clear "this is not really a town thought process" argument.

which i guess sums up how i feel about most of the scumreads on you - theyre kind of superficial and i think they can just as easily come from a new town player. like i feel like i saw points about your self awareness and calling yourself scummy and i swear i did that in one my first games as town lmao

like is your thought on saudade here objectively bad? yeah, as is saying Saudade town = cheeky scum Saudade scum = Aero town. but new players say things like that all the time, i don't see a particular reason it's motivated by a scum agenda here. bad isnt always equal to scum

"It's a bad thought process but it's not scum motivated"

Both of these are clear, defined stances, even if mine doesn't directly link to a specific alignment. Oka trying to talk about both alignments' perspectives, I think, comes from wanting to keep the push going while trying to keep the read grounded and not confident on page 5. It's hard to see the town reason for that, and I think town!Oka here would be more inquisitive about this. However, we barely see any follow up to this besides him continuing to wait for other people and "be hesitant", but then it later becomes "I'm gonna drop a case on this". ???? progression where

^correction: I see you are already voting booth of them. So instead I'll ask this - why the self preservation votes already?

It's less of a survivalist attitude, and more of a "oshit there's going to a mislynch already without much discussion." Odd question though, "already". I don't understand this part. I've seen that typically self-preservation votes aren't accepted as town, but is there a point in time it is? Is it too early for me to be concerned about being lynched?

I mean...if deadline is like an hour away, a townie is at L-1 with intent declared, and they have a chance to hammer someone else, Id be surprised if they didn't. But seeing self preservation when half the game still has an RVS mindset is concerning.

That's fair. I hadn't realized I was being scummy up until I was called out for it. I found no reason to hide it because I hadn't realized that it pointed in the direction of me being scum.

Yikes...

I am hesitant to push this because he seems to have no qualms about revealing his intentions, though this mindset is still concerning.

Doesn't read like town vibing with town whatsoever. What's the point here? Is he trying to dissuade KMD from pushing NASO but then agree with his reasoning? It's kind of a bizarre post now that I look at it again.

All I can really read from it is maybe he's trying to reaffirm his hesitancy? But that's like straight scum motive

Is it really nonsensical?

My issue with you right now is that you seem to be playing in a very selfish manner. You aren't cooperating, you seem content to let the game run without your presence so you can later swoop in and start working. The problem is the game needs some way to get rolling, and by refusing to interact and genuinely care, the entire game's progression is slowed down.

So then if we went to an extreme and everyone applied your style of play, we would end up having the game grind to a halt, unable to progress as everybody would be waiting for someone else to push the game forward.

I'll be honest with you, I'm trying to play this game in a slightly less rash playstyle that avoids confbiasing and trying to pick 1v1 fights with everyone, but refusal to comply and answer questions is going to be reason for me to loose my own restraints and deathtunnelling.

i cant explain what i hate about this post but its premise is just disgusting for the lack of a better word

we get some of that "I'm going to state what your motivations are for you " kind of thinking again. Sure, Saudade's rvs interactions are kind of limited in general, but so what? Why does it matter to criticize the way he's playing unless you think he's hiding behind it as scum? If you think he's going to swoop in later and start working and your intention here is to get him to post readable content, why would it hurt in this game to wait and let saudade interact with other people on his own volition?

I guess what I'm trying to say is that Oka reads like he's trying to play Mafia-Theory-Moral-Compass than he is trying to read Saudade, and then puts the blame on him not liking Saudade's play on Saudade. I, like, personally don't think Oka is wrong to say this about Saudade but it's also NAI and I think Oka cares more about proving a point here than he does reading Saudade.

So, in a nutshell, what I dislike about early oka's play:

• States people's motivations rather than parses them - comes from a mindset that's thinking "who do I need to push" rather than "who do I need to sort"
  
• Cares more about being a moral compass who's Pro-Town and Good for Town, calling people lylo liabilities and chides them for play rather than alignment
  
• Waffles at weird intervals to agree with people he wants to townread - another good example of this I excluded was 200. Initially he was pushing Cheeky!town, but when Aero gives reasons he disagrees he's like "oh i concede I'm wrong" and doesn't really... go anywhere with that? As town i expect most people to add a "but this is why I'm right" or a "so I guess you're right" to that, but Oka just keeps his read where it is.

I'm sure I could read further but I haven't gotten to my replace-in yet on my reread. This is just what I've noticed with flips now (Aero being town I guess was important for me to confirm, since I probably would have sidetracked myself there), and I fully expect that once I'm in the equation the game is thrown upside-down in an equally scum-beneficial way.

[Katyusha]

States people's motivations rather than parses them -

comes from a mindset that's thinking "who do I need to push" rather than "who do I need to sort"

Cares more about being a moral compass who's Pro-Town and Good for Town, calling people lylo liabilities and chides them for play rather than alignment

(there is an implicit "than scumhunting" here)

Waffles at weird intervals to agree with people he wants to townread - another good example of this I excluded was 200. Initially he was pushing Cheeky!town, but when Aero gives reasons he disagrees he's like "oh i concede I'm wrong" and doesn't really... go anywhere with that?

As town i expect most people to add a "but this is why I'm right" or a "so I guess you're right" to that, but Oka just keeps his read where it is

.

[Katyusha]

You, as town, think about who you need to tactically push instead of who you need to read?

You, as town, prioritize playstyle arguments over scumhunting?

Ok, maybe you might state that you disagree with people's thoughts or just say "you could be right" but like... ????

[Katyusha]

oka to be blunt did you actually read my post because i literally just summed up the analysis i made based on the quotes which i used as evidence

[Katyusha]

Why is this scum motive?

putting on a persona rather than genuine engagement

[Katyusha]

yes i make my reads by applying a motivation and seeing which side makes more sense.

u do the same it appears

i have been parsing motivations and stating motivations. i dont see the whole thing about how this is indicative of me thinking about who i need to push rather than sort tho. only actual way of getting a read is by pushing? anybody can pretend to be town, its not hard. motivation is everything.

yes lylo liabilities are indeed liabilities. rn id rather have performer and gamma talking than saudade and n_m but i fked up.
i stand by the naso lynch as necessary.

me talking with cheeky later was me resorting cheeky.

that's not what i mean - i think directly stating "you are doing x because y" early on before you really show work with A: questioning B: flips doesn't make a lot of sense from a scumhunting perspective. it's creating a narrative

and sure, you can feel that players are lylo liabilities, that's fine. but saudade still has intentions of his own and just writing to him about how he's a liability isn't really going to make anything different, nor does it help you figure out if he's scum or town

[Katyusha]

N_M if you could post right after me to confirm we’re not a team that’d be nice

I can’t respond to Oka rn bc I’m cramming in 2 midterm projects this weekend but i’ll Try to keep up

[Katyusha]

Katyusha what would you think about lynching not_mafia today?

not that i disagree with you

but what specifically makes you scumread not_mafia?

Also I’m fine lynching n_m now but my 3way vote would brainlessly go to Oka in that world

[Katyusha]

Saudade I’m gonna b rly annoyed if ur scum lmao

[Katyusha]

Saudade I’m gonna b rly annoyed if ur scum lmao

You sound rather annoyed by me anyway

I’m not lmao

If I’m right atm I’m more annoyed I might the right deductions but pushed the wrong conclusions- we mislynches Gamma and Performer because we thought Oka was town and because N_M’s only viable partner besides gamma was Oka

Ofc if I’m wrong how I feel vastly depends on the team

[Katyusha]

I made*

[Katyusha]

Cool

I’m tempted to vote Oka just to confirm you as town from his pov but idk how ballsy I’m feeling

[Katyusha]

Hi!

[Katyusha]

Cool

So Oka/Saudade is confirmed to have 1 scum

[Katyusha]

Agree that until Oka comes in to clear me/him and him/you that’s correct

[Katyusha]

Weee I’m clear

[Katyusha]

Actually I can be scum w Saudade nvm

[Katyusha]

Yeah that’d be fun but my scum game is a bit spotty

[Katyusha]

Guys post more so it’s hard confirmed Saud is scum or it’s N_M/Oka

[Katyusha]

Saudade has 1 vote lol

[Katyusha]

Kmd4390/Saudade
Katyusha/Saudade
Saudade/Oka
Saudade/N_M
Not_Mafia/Oka

^ all possible teams, though top two are very unlikely from Saudade’s vote (Kmd/Saudade I guess assumes they’re in the clear now that I’m willing to vote Oka but I’m gonna trust in Cheeky on this one being wrong)

I still hold that Saudade/N_M doesn’t make sense from N_M’s interactions and I’m assuming you’re also about to be hard cleared so the Mechanically Correct Lynch is Oka, who coincidentally is who I think is most likely scum by play

[Katyusha]

Oh I didn’t even realize lol

I’m pretty sure we’re both town anyway

[Katyusha]

Wait no I posted right after Oka’s saudade vote so we could have qh’d N_M

[Katyusha]

N_M can you vote Saudade now?

[Katyusha]

No hammer here

[Katyusha]

KMD?

[Katyusha]

Sigh of relief goes here

Ok so even if you can theoretically be scum w saudade I’m going to hardclear you - so from that we have

Oka/N_M
Oka/Saudade
N_M/Saudade

I think Oka is the most likely to flip independently and I’m sticking to my associative reads being correct and that I consistently followed the red herrings that came from townreading Oka. I guess our compromise option is N_M, but then we risk Saudade bussing correctly (though I think N_M not voting me here ever has scum equity)

Pedit: To us, yeah. Saudade can be scum with everyone but I don’t think that makes him the correct vote

[Katyusha]

Nope that’s the gamestate rn

[Katyusha]

His play is cocky as town sure but I think Oka’s play is scummier this phase in all honesty

[Katyusha]

We have time to talk it out but I think we’re in the ballpark bare minimum if we trust each other

[Katyusha]

Yeah I’m crammed w work rn but that’s a good plan when we have free time

Pedit: n_m it’s literally confirmed it’s not LMAO

[Katyusha]

Anyway my stop is next and the subway comes next so i’ll be out of commission for like 30 mins since there’s no data

[Katyusha]

Loam

[Katyusha]

It came late anyway lol

[Katyusha]

Oka what would you do if I voted you and no one quickhammered

[Katyusha]

BTW if you wait until last minute to vote me then you are still scum for wasting everyone's time with posturing


Then I would 1v2 u and saudade

I mean yes but like

How would you rationalize scum me considering I’ve been hard townread the whole game

[Katyusha]

Yeah you would but you’d still have to convince people

Like If I Were Scum Why Would That Be