Open 737: Stack the Deck (Game Over)

[skitter30]

The only thing we know now that we didn't know before the game started is that creature is IC and therefore scum didn't pick 0 powers, they picked at least 1.

False assumption (Coming from BuJ I'd say it might be a Town slip, but don't quote me on that just yet.)

Town start with 2 PRs, then gain an additional one for every modification the scum pick.

This means we have at least one other TPR in addition to Creature if the scum team is 2 Goons + a Traitor with no daychat. If they picked one modification then we have 2 more TPRs in addition to Creature. If they picked two modification we have 4 TPRs in total, and if they picked 3 modofication (maxed out) we would have FIVE TPRs.

so i was looking at the tail-end of a50's iso and found this post

it looks like bujaber thinks here that town started at 0 powers and they get one pr for each mod scum take. and he says we know that scum picked at least one since creature is an ic

he's wrong at town starting at 0 powers but i think this points to him knowing that scum picked at least one (massclaim seems to indicate exactly one) which leads me to believe both pr claims are real (i mean i thought that already but this is just another piece of information pointing to that)

[skitter30]

Alonzo - who did you target?

Who did you target?

*shrug*

I interpreted this as a guilty and could see performer doing the same

anyway let's not lynch anyone until we get a mod answer on happily ever after

i also thought alonzo was indicating that he blocked performer tbh

[skitter30]

If you can prove mechanically that town always wins this with me dead, and if you'll hear me out on Performer before I go, I'm still fine with that.

I have a long draft regarding Performer but I have to go afk so I'll post it & more tomorrow

you feel a little bit survivalistic to me :/

[Irrelephant11]

okay

[Irrelephant11]

did you read the case?
when everyone has done that, and if I'm still your scummiest read, quicklynch me I guess
My two towniest reads want me dead; I'm not sure there's something I can do to address that enough; I should probably die

Don't read this as wifom, I think you're all perfectly capable of evaluating it as a strategy: if scum, I should die. If town, and you're never going to think obvscum is scum until I die, I should die. Yes?

[skitter30]

ok i read through your performer walls and just kinda rambling a bit

and i guess the difference between how you and i view performer is that i don't really think his confusion is faked
like i've consistently gotten the vibe that he didn't always understand things - like the setup for instance

i do agree with you that both anti and bujaber and cj were all slightly townreading sky on some varient of trolling/too scummy to be scum; this is one thing that's making me a little hesitant on the slot

Calls both flipped goons "friend" in two consecutive posts. Pretty subtle traitor callout

i mean he's called me friend i'm pretty sure too hwile i was town

yeah ok reading through your buj/tw interactions i kinda see that too actually. i think i'm going to want to go through them myself to check that you aren't bringing them up out of context but i don't think that's going to happen today; maybe some point over the weekend. i think the quotes you pulled do look a bit svs; i didn't remember seeing that thread really while it was happenig

huh and 1745 does maybe look like a slip that he knows there's a traitor (but again that would imply anti/mwnn took daytalk which i'm a little dubious about)

ok i'm willing to entertain the idea of bujaber/tw but basically i need to do the research myself if htat makes sense to really get a feel for how likely it is

Also I just remembered skitter posted her scumcase on my slot and I'd like to respond to it but besides the exhaustion of writing the above post I need to get off MS for a few hours so idk how likely it is that will happen
Given Performer probably gets lynched after me if I get lynched I'm fine with it

take your time i'm not super expecting a response honestly; it's not like you can defend his actions really; i'm more just explaining where the scumread came from

(aside do you do/follow survivor edgic? that's the main context i've seen 'ott' in and i saw you have a survivor thread in mishmash )

p-edit yeah i read it; it took me a bit + i had to go do somethign else irl

[ruru]

I would've shot last night, btw. There were good odds I'd be targeted based on what people told Alonzo to do, so what would be the point in holstering?

?

[skitter30]

oh yeah i read that too and i wasn't sure what theat meant

like i read it a few times and i'm not following the logic

[ruru]

enigma pretty much has to be town for the same reasons I am regarding night actions + BuJ wanted him dead for most of the game.

also I also feel like this is another low-nuance "scum lynch town, town lynch scum" type read (I do think enigma is probably town, but your level of certainty is doubly strange to me considering you scumread enigma on night actions + posting alone and I don't, and I still haven't reached it after bujaber's flip)

I even mentioned a couple times that bujaber likes to mess with associatives as scum

his d1 case on enigma was "policy lynch for pagetopping" which is never ever going to get someone actually lynched so at least some of it could be distancing without necessarily having intent to bus either

[Enigma]

Alonzo - who did you target?

Who did you target?

So this felt off when I first open the thread but I didn't really figure out the words/logic for it yet. Performer's first post game day stood out - for me, it was wtf happened last night and oh shit will this game finish soon. If a NK had happened last night, this is what I would have asked straight away, but we had discussed already yesterday that the rb!guilty is not really a guilty. Part of this actually feels like scum!performer could have holstered last night, then hoped for a rb!guilty on someone just to muck with everyone's head?

[ruru]

ok i'm willing to entertain the idea of bujaber/tw but basically i need to do the research myself if htat makes sense to really get a feel for how likely it is

fwiw I believed in this scumteam for most of day 2-3 and I don't think there are particularly clearing interactions

[skitter30]

like i said i hadn't really been paying much attention to that idea so i wasn't really looking out for evidence that could point to/away from that theory and i need to skim some isos

[Enigma]

we technically could have lynched a recruited traitor; they flip as mafia goon

@ mod is this the case? or would traitor flip as recruited goon?

I just want to confirm this before I look through ISOs just to know which scenario is more likely. Associations are kind of awkward when I was thinking about the game - I'm not sure if we are looking at two goons flipped who did not know who their traitor buddy was (because they choose day talk); or if we are looking for group scum who all knew each other (because they choose recruit)

[Enigma]

I mean if scum is in {you, enigma, performer} then lynching those three wins the game even if alonzo literally goes afk

skitter is 99% town

korina is 95% town

if alonzo is scum he gamethrew

if I'm scum I gamethrew

OK I read this in the morning and it was like I don't understand what you mean by game threw here? If you lynch elephant, performer and me, but the last scum is in one of alonzo/ruru is scum - this isn't game throwing but rather well done to scum for getting so far?

I'm not calling either of you scum (at the moment) and I think it is unlikely but I wouldn't discount the possibility that there is scum in either of you ... like it is possible that there is one scum in you and alonzo if scum took no mods considering:
1. Both of you claimed later in the process
2. There has been no night action that can validate either of your claims - especially with the no deaths last night

Anyways this is a sort out before LYLO if we get there, but we are a bit away from that

[skitter30]

i think ruru uses 'plays suboptimally' and 'gamethrew' almost interchangeably

[Enigma]

i think ruru uses 'plays suboptimally' and 'gamethrew' almost interchangeably

lol ok

[ruru]

I use it extremely literally in my own case: yes, in theory, I could hard bus bujaber and fake claim bg because wifom and then make the game nightless (sacrificing the most overpowered ability in the game) and then drive lynches on town like 4 times in a row or something but I only do that if I'm extremely confident in my ability to towntell which is never the case when I roll scum and if I'm not then it's actually just gamethrowing.

alonzo and I were both generally townread already so there's no point for either of us in poeing the game further; fakeclaiming only really makes sense for either of us if we planned to stop the bujaber lynch so as to make rb/tracker innos remain ambiguous (and I already knew there's an rb when I claimed bg)

alonzo had a 1/3 chance to instantly lose to a cc considering I would never let bujaber live to endgame, and he wasn't lined up to be lynched, so that's objectively townreadable as well

alonzo would also be expecting an investigative role above him in the claim order; if someone had useful n1/n2 gc/tracker results (for example, tracking alonzo doing nothing) the game could also just be mechanically solved by his claim

so like basically it's not impossible but it's just exceedingly unlikely

[Performer]

Alonzo - who did you target?

Who did you target?

So this felt off when I first open the thread but I didn't really figure out the words/logic for it yet. Performer's first post game day stood out - for me, it was wtf happened last night and oh shit will this game finish soon. If a NK had happened last night, this is what I would have asked straight away, but we had discussed already yesterday that the rb!guilty is not really a guilty. Part of this actually feels like scum!performer could have holstered last night, then hoped for a rb!guilty on someone just to muck with everyone's head?

I wanted to know what happened so I just asked it . By this point of d4 it makes little to no sense for me to not outright find Alonzo's result and work with it.

I'm starting to consider that it's possible to be in our favor to have me lynched. Because if we look at it this way:
-If irrel gets lynched & somehow is town, people may still think I'm suspicious...though my reads aren't perfect. Then Alonzo might just rb me again and I think we'll just end up at square one again the next day
-If I get lynched, then at least people's paranoia are alleviated. I'm unsure how much experience people have regarding FM, but I've seen games where people want their own lynch to be pushed through in order for the next day to have less paranoia (chaos)
-But then there's that third option left, which I am considering more and more - I don't think we want a draw in this game so I'll ask

@mod if there is no kill again from scum, how many times can we no lynch again before you decide it's a draw?

[Enigma]

^I would probably concede, self-vote, quit etc. if it happened again lol ... this game has been going on for too long

[Enigma]

I use it extremely literally in my own case: yes, in theory, I could hard bus bujaber and fake claim bg because wifom and then make the game nightless (sacrificing the most overpowered ability in the game) and then drive lynches on town like 4 times in a row or something but I only do that if I'm extremely confident in my ability to towntell which is never the case when I roll scum and if I'm not then it's actually just gamethrowing.

alonzo and I were both generally townread already so there's no point for either of us in poeing the game further; fakeclaiming only really makes sense for either of us if we planned to stop the bujaber lynch so as to make rb/tracker innos remain ambiguous (and I already knew there's an rb when I claimed bg)

alonzo had a 1/3 chance to instantly lose to a cc considering I would never let bujaber live to endgame, and he wasn't lined up to be lynched, so that's objectively townreadable as well

alonzo would also be expecting an investigative role above him in the claim order; if someone had useful n1/n2 gc/tracker results (for example, tracking alonzo doing nothing) the game could also just be mechanically solved by his claim

so like basically it's not impossible but it's just exceedingly unlikely

Yeh I've realise I don't wanna think about this scenario - if one of you guys holstered last night despite fake claiming it is pretty silly to do so (and a bit cruel to town as well). Was probs just the usage of the word game throwing that got me a bit confused.

[ofrhz]

VOTE COUNT 4.2

Alonzo (0):

Performer (2):

Irrelephant11, Alonzo

ruru (0):

Enigma (0):

Irrelephant11 (1):

ruru

skitter30 (0):

Korina (0):

Not Voting (4):

Performer, Enigma, skitter30, Korina

With

7

alive, it takes

4

to kill.
Day 4 ends in (expired on 2018-10-31 19:00:00)

Other:

- skitter30 V/LA Fridays and Saturdays

[ofrhz]

we technically could have lynched a recruited traitor; they flip as mafia goon

@ mod is this the case? or would traitor flip as recruited goon?

I just want to confirm this before I look through ISOs just to know which scenario is more likely. Associations are kind of awkward when I was thinking about the game - I'm not sure if we are looking at two goons flipped who did not know who their traitor buddy was (because they choose day talk); or if we are looking for group scum who all knew each other (because they choose recruit)

Yes, if recruited, the traitor would flip as a mafia goon.

[ofrhz]

@mod if there is no kill again from scum, how many times can we no lynch again before you decide it's a draw?

Uhhh I really don't want this game to ping-pong back and forth like that, so let's just say once more. If there is no lynch today, no kill tonight, and no lynch tomorrow, I'll call it a draw, and we can all pack up our bags and go home.

[ofrhz]

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[ruru]

Lynch irrel