Micro 829: The Coalition [Endgame]

[Irrelephant11]

eh it was probably genuine? I'll come back to chara/nl later I'm now torn

[Chara]

elephant, would like to see your take on my reply to Skygazer's skitter read.
was townreading most of that post up until the end, and your "scum have daychat" followup is a little...
daychat is so standard it makes me wonder why your initial reads weren't taking that possibility into account to begin with. or what about that exchange made it seem manufactured, besides the simple fact of daychat, when you had such a strong reaction to it earlier in the post.

pedit:

[Chara]

skitter townreads in general all kind of make me nervous. she could easily be town, but there's really nothing in that ISO that i would say scum skitter couldn't do. it's just too risky for me to want that in the coalition.
i have some other reads but it's probably better if i wait for some more replies to everything before getting overexcited.

still think elephant is more likely town than not, and the follow-up post right before mine there does soften some of the bad feelings i just had, but not enough to put him in the coalition.

[Gamma Emerald]

scum have daychat
HURT: charaHURT: no lunch
I forgot I voted Aubrey near the beginning of that post but I'll stick with sky for now
though I wonder if our strategy is that our lynch should only ever be in the coalition? since that'll optimally be where scum is if the coalition fails?

I think it might be smarter to hunt outside the townbloc first, as finding a scum there narrows the last scum down, which doesn’t work the other way around.

[Gamma Emerald]

Also despite not mentioning me or quoting any of my posts Irrel removed me from his bloc
Weird? Kinda feels a bit scummy.
VOTE: Irrelephant

[Aubrey]

I'm at work skimming from time to time, so I can't go into detail on a lot of things. or comment on things that will take longer than a minute or two.

scum have daychat
HURT: charaHURT: no lunch
I forgot I voted Aubrey near the beginning of that post but I'll stick with sky for now
though I wonder if our strategy is that our lynch should only ever be in the coalition? since that'll optimally be where scum is if the coalition fails?

I think it might be smarter to hunt outside the townbloc first, as finding a scum there narrows the last scum down, which doesn’t work the other way around.

assuming we haven't major F'ed up and put two scum in the townblock.

I'm for the opposite should the coalition fail. Look in the 5 players, then free for all it.

[Irrelephant11]

scum have daychat
HURT: charaHURT: no lunch
I forgot I voted Aubrey near the beginning of that post but I'll stick with sky for now
though I wonder if our strategy is that our lynch should only ever be in the coalition? since that'll optimally be where scum is if the coalition fails?

I think it might be smarter to hunt outside the townbloc first, as finding a scum there narrows the last scum down, which doesn’t work the other way around.

Yeah, disagree, both scum could be in the coalition

Also despite not mentioning me or quoting any of my posts

Irrel removed me from his bloc
Weird? Kinda feels a bit scummy.
VOTE: Irrelephant

Having zero posts from you I found notable is why I removed you from my townbloc
I'll ISO you later, maybe, it's not indicative of a scumread I just don't townread you enough to coalition you. Why is it scummy that I removed you? Do you feel you've been so obvtown I should keep you in my coalition forever?


@chara I thought it was all extremely notable theater if scum, I thought scum didn't have daychat because [redacted], and then when I remembered to re-check for daychat it gave me flashbacks to friemds mafia where RC/geminitwin had such good scum theater on D1 that I never again considered them a possible team; except, it was all planned in scumchat, and I lost town the game in lylo. On the other hand, it did still feel really genuine, and it IS still really notable theater if scum, and it all happened in such real time that you pedited each other multiple times, so I'm waffling. It doesn't help that you were both like "only readable people in the townbloc yes" and you agreed the other is unreadable and now "we are the townbloc yes", is a sorta iffy discrepancy. I really WANT to townread you both but I also am paranoid that it's intentional game-winning theater for scum, especially given how it differs from both of your stated strategies
Otoh, how often does scum come into the thread like "here's the winning strat!" and then abandon it at a moment's notice hmm

[Gamma Emerald]

I feel like you removing me from your bloc could be you reacting to me being widely chosen as a member by trying to reduce the consensus on me

[Chara]

Otoh, how often does scum come into the thread like "here's the winning strat!" and then abandon it at a moment's notice hmm

i don't view it as abandoning my strategy, no lunch (and still skitter) were kept out of my coalition because i found them difficult to read. then no lunch did something really towny, which kind of negates the whole "difficult to read" thing. they did something easy to read.

[Chara]

if the coalition fails, there's 0 or 1 scum in the remaining four, and 1-2 in the coalition. we still have to catch both of them.
i'm not planning on constraining my post-coalition hunting if we fail, except as a way to think about scumteams and how they might be arranged.

Gamma: why would scum elephant be threatened by one townblocked townie?

[Chara]

i'd say "actually wait to answer that until elephant replies to you" but my question kind of already shows what i think. oh well.

[Irrelephant11]

I feel like you removing me from your bloc could be you reacting to me being widely chosen as a member by trying to reduce the consensus on me

I didn't notice you were being widely townread or widely coalition'd. Also, I didn't give a reason, so I don't think anyone was planning on sheeping me on it.

If anything you're the one who seems overly concerned about your status as a coalition candidate

[skitter30]

HEAL: skitter

she seems unconcerned with the fact that shes not in the majority coalition atm

and she entered with a self-heal which makes me think she's not concerned with looking eager to be on the coalition right off the bat

like that may seem contradictory but I feel like scum wouldn't want to enter with something that screams "hey pick me" like a self heal and i feel like in the game state we're in right now she would be trying to town tell more aggressively

(granted she could be scum with a widely townread player but eh)

i like to imagine that if i were scum here i'd be very very cognizant that looking like i'd want to be in the coalition would be a scumtell so i'd do my best to be as nonchalent about that as possible; idk if that's a good reason to townread me tbh

i do think i would instead be trying to towntell pretty hard

[skitter30]

I think I've seen you in a game when I was meta diving skitter30, so I would expect you'd be aware of her stronger skills as a scum player. Given that she is excellent at earning townreads, are you satisfied this play is outside of her abilities as scum?

Are you also satisfied that you'll be able to correctly read her later, should this coalition fail?

i'm not really outside of my scumrange rn imo

[skitter30]

I don’t really have a good reason other than I’d rather build a coalition of people I townread. I was shocked we could even vote ourselves, and kinda turned my nose up at it. I viewed it as someone voting for themselves to win a public choice competition, and I’ve never considered that a right thing to do personally, though I’m sure many would dissaggreee with me on that sentiment.

There might be a bit of ego also playing into it.

I am aware I’m going against my win condition here.

HEAL: aubrey

[Gamma Emerald]

if the coalition fails, there's 0 or 1 scum in the remaining four, and 1-2 in the coalition. we still have to catch both of them.
i'm not planning on constraining my post-coalition hunting if we fail, except as a way to think about scumteams and how they might be arranged.

Gamma: why would scum elephant be threatened by one townblocked townie?

Idk what motive he’d have exactly rn
But the timing and lack of any lead-up makes it feel shady

[Irrelephant11]

why should I have had you in my coalition in the first place? I RVS'd you there.
HEAL: chara, no lunch (I've decided neither of you are RC.... for now)

@skitter there's a sort of mild cog-diss with you saying "As scum I'd try to look like I didn't care if I was in the coalition" and then Healing Aubrey for saying "oh I don't want to be in the coalition"
Like do you think only you would think of that or

[skitter30]

Like you scumread that I wanted everyone off balance or that I *said* I want everyone off balance?

more that you said you weren't sure if you believed half the things you said - i felt like that sort of thing gives someone room to backtrack later

Wait, see, why isn't it pinging you that this is a majority of your read on the slot though? Like, I feel like every single part of the this could have been done pre-game by someone expecting to be town, and then when no lunch got a scum PM shared it all anyway and just posted a whole bunch about it to get townread
Like I guess I'm probably going overboard by saying it's scummy but I think you're wrong in saying those things are enough for a townread and that's one thing I wanted to get across by voting no lunch earlier

ok this is a fair point, that this is the main reason why i'm townreading him
i don't super strongly townread him outside of that (i feel like his convo with chara was +town for him but idk if i would independantly townread him for that)

my strongest townread rn is prob chara i think

Also I'm probably going to have to accept that I'm not going to be in the coalitions because I'm so unreadable on the whole (ftr I get scumread as scum way more often than I get scumread as town, which skitter can semi-attest to, but I'd say this as either alignment so I digress). Which makes this game an interestingly more-uphill battle fmpov. I accept the challenge.

well idk if i'm coalitioning you atm because you're unreadable in a general sense, more cuz i don't have a super strong read on you rn and read other people more strongly atm

this post makes me townread skitter a lot more than it makes me townread sky

why did that post make you vote sky?

[Irrelephant11]

that post didn't make me vote sky, quoting that post had little to do with my follow up vote on sky

[Chara]

here's a take because i'm bored of waiting for Sky's answer and i would rather just pressure it:
i think Sky is self-conscious scum and so neglected to put herself in her own coalition. she's townreading skitter for openly putting herself in her coalition to start because she thinks scum would maybe have that same self-consciousness about it, and this is because she had that feeling and she's scum. this is in spite of most other players also doing the same thing in their opening.
also skitter pointed out herself that she isn't being all that towny.
no lunch gets a pass because they mentioned that skitter is hard to read previously and also for being town.

[Chara]

if the coalition fails, there's 0 or 1 scum in the remaining four, and 1-2 in the coalition. we still have to catch both of them.
i'm not planning on constraining my post-coalition hunting if we fail, except as a way to think about scumteams and how they might be arranged.

Gamma: why would scum elephant be threatened by one townblocked townie?

Idk what motive he’d have exactly rn
But the timing and lack of any lead-up makes it feel shady

i think his explanation makes sense. do you?

[skitter30]

why should I have had you in my coalition in the first place? I RVS'd you there.
HEAL: chara, no lunch (I've decided neither of you are RC.... for now)

@skitter there's a sort of mild cog-diss with you saying "As scum I'd try to look like I didn't care if I was in the coalition" and then Healing Aubrey for saying "oh I don't want to be in the coalition"
Like do you think only you would think of that or

huh that's fair; i hadn't thought about it that way or realized i was being cog-diss (i guess that's kinda the point)

i guess that's such an ... original/unique perspective on not-voting for oneself
like it feels kinda sincere and stems from their feelings towards games and like what's fair/ethical

like idk i don't really feel like scum would see that as a barrier for self-voting; they'd just see at is as part of the game and a way to like get in a better position and their post just felt like he totally, sincerely, doesn't care about doing something he views as wrong/not-right to position himself better
does that make sense? idk how well i explained that

like it just felt very sincere

thinking about it now idk if it's impossible for that to come from scum but it just feels really townie to me

[Chara]

HEAL: skitter
she seems unconcerned with the fact that shes not in the majority coalition atm and she entered with a self-heal which makes me think she's not concerned with looking eager to be on the coalition right off the bat

like that may seem contradictory but I feel like scum wouldn't want to enter with something that screams "hey pick me" like a self heal and i feel like in the game state we're in right now she would be trying to town tell more aggressively

(granted she could be scum with a widely townread player but eh)

i disagree on the self-heal bit, it's the best heal town could (and really, should) make, since it's one's most confident townread.
i'm aware that before this skitter was only in no lunch's coalition, but a lot of them aren't done being built yet. and i think i'm the only player who's really anti-skitter in any sense, but if i missed where i'm not please point it out, might've missed it.
anyway, given that what do you think scum skitter would be doing here besides what she has been? i think she's been objectively towny.

oh elephant, i wanted a reply to this from you.

[skitter30]

scum have daychat
HURT: charaHURT: no lunch
I forgot I voted Aubrey near the beginning of that post but I'll stick with sky for now
though I wonder if our strategy is that our lynch should only ever be in the coalition? since that'll optimally be where scum is if the coalition fails?

why does scum having daychat affect these reads?

that convo felt super organic and i don't think that having daychat would really change that really

[Chara]

also i agree on Aubrey. was townreading him before that but it is a unique perspective that i think is moee likely for scum to think to fake. and as scum i don't believe Aubrey would view it as "cheating" in the same way, of that makes sense.

pedit: at this point i feel like i'm using you, skitter, more to read elephant and Skygazer. i agree with a lot of what you're saying (and our coalitions match, sans your presence in mine), and i want to townread you, but i don't trust it enough yet because i think you're good enough to fake it.
don't know what the point of this was except to say i'm not against you.