Micro 829: The Coalition [Endgame]

[Chara]

also i agree on Aubrey. was townreading him before that but it is a unique perspective that i think is less likely for scum to think to fake. and as scum i don't believe Aubrey would view it as "cheating" in the same way, of that makes sense.

EBWOP.

[skitter30]

skitter townreads in general all kind of make me nervous. she could easily be town, but there's really nothing in that ISO that i would say scum skitter couldn't do. it's just too risky for me to want that in the coalition.

i have some other reads but it's probably better if i wait for some more replies to everything before getting overexcited.

still think elephant is more likely town than not, and the follow-up post right before mine there does soften some of the bad feelings i just had, but not enough to put him in the coalition.

yeah that's fair
i don't think i towntold that strongly yet for me

[skitter30]

Also despite not mentioning me or quoting any of my posts Irrel removed me from his bloc
Weird? Kinda feels a bit scummy.
VOTE: Irrelephant

this feels like a really surface-level reason to scumread him + kinda like overconcerned about being in his block

[skitter30]

I feel like you removing me from your bloc could be you reacting to me being widely chosen as a member by trying to reduce the consensus on me

this is a really interesting perspective because i hadn't been regarding you as a widely chosen member

huh i looked at the vc again and you were in 4 people's apparently

but he's gone back - and - forth on no lunch and chara, who both i'd regard as being more townread than you so idk why you're applying this logic to him hurting you in particular and not to him hurting chara and no lunch

[Aubrey]

"oh I don't want to be in the coalition"

Woooooooooah. No. That is not what I said. I said I wanted to build my personal coalition of others without voting for myself because x y z. I never said,

"I don't want to be in the coalition"

If I get put in the top 5 for the coalition at EOD, it's because I got read that way by others and not by slipping in a free-pass on my self. That is essentially what i was saying.

[skitter30]

that post didn't make me vote sky, quoting that post had little to do with my follow up vote on sky

ok, why'd you vote sky?

[skitter30]

also i agree on Aubrey. was townreading him before that

but it is a unique perspective that i think is moee likely for scum to think to fake.

and

as scum i don't believe Aubrey would view it as "cheating" in the same way, of that makes sense.

pedit: at this point i feel like i'm using you, skitter, more to read elephant and Skygazer. i agree with a lot of what you're saying (and our coalitions match, sans your presence in mine), and i want to townread you, but i don't trust it enough yet because i think you're good enough to fake it.
don't know what the point of this was except to say i'm not against you.

i was also thinking the bolded but i was trying to figure out how to articulate the italics and forgot to put that in

um idk if you should depend on me to read irrel and sky
i've played with them both i think like 3 times or so now, but i don't have a super great track record reading either

[Chara]

oh, i didn't mean you need to read those two for me, i mean my reads on both of them currently have to do with their reads on you. because being roundabout is fun.

[Irrelephant11]

221 - yes it makes some sense. I'm just not reading it as

that

much more likely to come from town than scum to deserve getting coalition'd + I've already mentioned some of my hesitance around the Aubrey slot

HEAL: skitter
she seems unconcerned with the fact that shes not in the majority coalition atm and she entered with a self-heal which makes me think she's not concerned with looking eager to be on the coalition right off the bat

like that may seem contradictory but I feel like scum wouldn't want to enter with something that screams "hey pick me" like a self heal and i feel like in the game state we're in right now she would be trying to town tell more aggressively

(granted she could be scum with a widely townread player but eh)

i disagree on the self-heal bit, it's the best heal town could (and really, should) make, since it's one's most confident townread.
i'm aware that before this skitter was only in no lunch's coalition, but a lot of them aren't done being built yet. and i think i'm the only player who's really anti-skitter in any sense, but if i missed where i'm not please point it out, might've missed it.
anyway, given that what do you think scum skitter would be doing here besides what she has been? i think she's been objectively towny.

oh elephant, i wanted a reply to this from you.

I don't know what kind of reply you're looking for here
I agree that self-heal is generally something every player should probably want to do
I agree that nothing has scumpinged me from skitter, and she's played like I expect town!skitter to play
I don't really think she's outside her scumrange and she's said so herself

scum have daychat
HURT: charaHURT: no lunch
I forgot I voted Aubrey near the beginning of that post but I'll stick with sky for now
though I wonder if our strategy is that our lynch should only ever be in the coalition? since that'll optimally be where scum is if the coalition fails?

why does scum having daychat affect these reads?

that convo felt super organic and i don't think that having daychat would really change that really

I answered this in my 206

"oh I don't want to be in the coalition"

Woooooooooah. No. That is not what I said. I said I wanted to build my personal coalition of others without voting for myself because x y z. I never said,

"I don't want to be in the coalition"

If I get put in the top 5 for the coalition at EOD, it's because I got read that way by others and not by slipping in a free-pass on my self. That is essentially what i was saying.

I am aware I am paraphrasing. I am also aware that, if town, that's probably not what you meant for anyone to glean from it. If scum, I think that's exactly what you meant for other's to glean from it, though, and scum!you is what I was discussing in that post (plus I felt att that that was mainly what skitter got from your post)

that post didn't make me vote sky, quoting that post had little to do with my follow up vote on sky

ok, why'd you vote sky?

I don't know what skygazer is doing itt + weird @mod question + concerned about "accidentally sheeping" =/= townread.

[Aubrey]

I’m kinda shocked people are thinking it’s town. I was halfway figuring i’d get fed to the sharks for it or at least get trepidation from it. When Skitter healed me, I was really shocked.

[Aubrey]

I’m off to a shoot. I’ll need to reread everything from today in closer detail. Peace and carnage.

[no lunch]

Irrelephant11, I don't have a lot to respond to in your post.
A lot of it is deflective "you only hate my playstyle" type reasoning. I suppose there is a separate angle which I could bend myself to view your actions in a more positive light from, but I don't actually have any incentive to view them from this angle in the real world. Perhaps we have spent too much time going back and forth. I don't have much of a feeling for what you're doing other than talking to me. Let me catch up because you present as a mess.

This seems sort of contradictory to "don't overshare your reads using the coalition mechanic"

I have no idea what you mean by this?

[no lunch]

scum have daychat
HURT: charaHURT: no lunch
I forgot I voted Aubrey near the beginning of that post but I'll stick with sky for now
though I wonder if our strategy is that our lynch should only ever be in the coalition? since that'll optimally be where scum is if the coalition fails?

This is exactly four minutes after your gigantic wallpost saying you would bet the game on myself and Chara being town (which could be the first sentiment of yours which I echo).

I have no idea why you hurt both of us here, nor what daychat actually has to do with your read.

Are you implying the two of us, as scum, cooked up an overwhelmingly nuanced misrepresentation of each other via scumchat and then aligned our schedules to execute it in a completely seemingly intuitive way?

And you apparently came to this conclusion within 4 minutes?

I will take that as a compliment, if you flip town.

[no lunch]

if the coalition fails, there's 0 or 1 scum in the remaining four, and 1-2 in the coalition. we still have to catch both of them.
i'm not planning on constraining my post-coalition hunting if we fail, except as a way to think about scumteams and how they might be arranged.

Gamma: why would scum elephant be threatened by one townblocked townie?

See, I get the feeling from Irrelephant's posting that he is worried about every townblocked townie. He is shading us, shading Aubrey, shading Skygazer, shading Gamma, need to check skitter. I think scum-Irrelephant may actually include his buddy in the group of people be shades, if at all possible. It still does not present as though he genuinely townreads anyone.

[Irrelephant11]

Are you caught up yet

[no lunch]

You bet your cute little trunk I am.

[Irrelephant11]

My 206 explains why I was paranoid after remembering daychat. What do you think of my explanation there?

[Chara]

i think elephant's town. i could try and give a go at explaining but sometimes it's a bunch of minor things that don't lend themselves well to an explanation.
also, 238 is actually part of the reason for my townread. scum can afford to strongly townread some townies here, that elephant isn't may be indicative of paranoia.

[no lunch]

I don't have a strong feeling that the reasoning in 206, in isolation, is more likely to come from either town or scum. Even I know RadiantCowbells by name, and the guy is very good at scum. I'll need to go and read that game, but projecting that kind of read onto other "mere mortal" players is either:

>

paranoid and towny.

>

a cheap way to pull a scumread while trying to look paranoid.

Permit me being hyperbolic for a moment, as I think this will cover the most ground.
Do you have a tendency to get paranoid whenever you see two townies interacting in a townish manner?
If not, what about the interactions between Chara and myself appeared as scum theatre, rather than just genuine? Where did you draw a link between us and RadiantCowbells in the game you mentioned?

[Chara]

also the timing for 206 checks out. looks like an immediate response that took all of that half hour to write. reacting in an immediate, emotional way followed by a more nuanced think-through of the issue (in this case, elephant's daychat realization, then his "hm no they're probably town?") is in my opinion a very natural way of going about things. and it did look to be real-time. scum tend to have one response and then stick with it, or if they try to fake reconsidering it can come off as stilted. don't think elephant's "hm they're both probably town" that he posted immediately after the double hurt was too stilted.

[no lunch]

Given the speed of his hurt and then redaction, it actually felt pre-planned to me.
I'm always happy talking through this with him as well though. There are certainly solves where Irrelephant11 is town (and I do hope I can cash in on that compliment.)

[Irrelephant11]

Why yes, I am either town or scum. Good job

I don't know you as a player, and for all I know you are literally an RC alt (not that I get that feeling about you, but RC could pull off a you-looking-alt, no offense). I was ready to lock you both as town for what felt like the most genuine thing that would probably happen all game.
And then I thought about the last time I leaned on an extremely genuine moment from D1 of a micro for the rest of the game: I lost because the entire moment was faked. To save you some time, the moment in that game that I'm referring to is the series of posts that these words link to (for context, RC seriously advocates for policy lynching various players more often than anyone else I've seen onsite, and gets a lot of flak for it. Therefore, fmpov, gemini suggesting she would go through with a policy lynch

would

have gotten RC excited in that way, and anyway the rest of it read as very emotionally genuine. Had me fooled).

[Irrelephant11]

Given the speed of his hurt and then redaction, it actually felt pre-planned to me.

this requires the kind of thinking that you're suggesting you find unbelievable, so I find this somewhat unbelievable
To elaborate, "sure it's very likely town, but he could have pre-planned and faked it" is exactly what I thought about the exchange you two had, and the fact that you're able to have that kind of thought about me should show why it's reasonable I had that kind of thought about the two of you.

[Chara]

I don't know what kind of reply you're looking for here
I agree that self-heal is generally something every player should probably want to do
I agree that nothing has scumpinged me from skitter, and she's played like I expect town!skitter to play
I don't really think she's outside her scumrange and she's said so herself

i remembered my 190 to Skygazer being more accusatory than it actually was. oops.
the point was i thought the townread on skitter was scum motivated, and essentially a lead-in to the thoughts on Skygazer scum i just shared. basically, Scumgazer projecting her own strategy for looking town onto skitter.

the validity of that would depend on if a town Skygazer had thought about the scum uses of skitter's posting, which i won't really know until she comes back.

pedit: it was pretty quick, i noticed the same and that's why i asked about it. still, it being preplanned there would also mean he has some specific goal in doing so. (as opposed to scum playing more casually without a big play or plan, which is in my opinion more often the case). and i would wonder if scum elephant would choose to shade both of us like that (especially me, considering my defense of him and that most players are townreading me). it'd would be a tough battle to pick.

[Chara]

this game is reminding me how much fun mafia is when i'm active enough to basically only post and interact in real-time. it's so much harder when i have to look at things that are a few days or even several hours old.