Overkill 1: Serenity/Firefly (GAME OVER)

[BuJaber]

McMenno was the starter of BuJaber and was Stargazer also, I kinda thought he was town. What's the case there for people?
Looking at the lynch;
TPFKAP (9): Thor665, Gamma Emerald, Elsa Jay, CheekyTeeky, BuJaber, Jingle, Nancy Drew Shogunate, Chara, Toogeloo
I'm town, Elsa is not a lynch nor likely groupscum, I think Cheeky is town, I think Toog is town.

I think we should lynch one of Gamma,BuJaber,Nancy Drew,Chara

Okay let's discuss..
First since you didn't mention Jingle here, what is your position regarding Jingle, for completeness.

I'm town.. so of your list of 4 that leaves 3. Assuming you TR Jingle then Gamma is out too, even if you don't they are connected and likely will get NK'd if telling the truth so it's a horrible lynch mechanically, leaving NDS and Chara.

I have stated many times, and still believe, that Tora v RC was not TvT and so NDS, Chara I agree contains scum.
My preference here is Chara. But I will be willing to reevaluate if Tora returns and starts posting more. I'm confident I can sort him even if I'm wrong initially.

Just so it's clear to me, and/or I missed it, how do you explain his behavior towards Elsa's crumbing and later role reveal from scum!Tora's pov? SvT, SvS, buddies, or Sv3p. Also what do you think he gains from defending Elsa if Elsa is not on his team.

Scum LR would be insane right? Do we need to talk about Toog ever? I've been treating him like conftown since the claim.

Okay I admit I didn't take your wagon analysis seriously earlier because I saw my name among the list.. but a d1 wagon in a large and probably multiball game on a traitor has to include scum... but also given how many people we can eliminate from the pool based on claims then we also have a really really good chance at lynching scum if we lynch randomly off wagon, let alone if we actually lynch a scummy slot off wagon. Would you agree to that? Like how many scum do you imagine are on the wagon, when 4 out of the 9 are 2 masons, 1 LR, 1 3p doc, and then you and me assuming you're town puts it at 6 out of 9. Even if we ignore the CT townread (which we shouldn't) Mathematically we probably have more scum off the wagon.

My interpretation of the RCvTora puts it at 50% chance to shoot scum on wagon if we shoot one of them. So I guess 16 alive minus the 9 on wagon leaves 7, mala is 3p so 6. If we think there are 4 or more scum total in the game then off wagon is better odds.

If you think we can raise the probability of shooting scum on the wagon higher than 50% then on wagon would make sense.

[Reasonably Rational]

From the Serenity wiki:

"In the Serenity comics, the blue "gloves" are shown to extend to and cover the upper body as well. They were finally killed when Serenity's engine flare incinerated them, and the Alliance passes the assignment to retrieve the Tams to the Operative, explaining why it is he and not them in the movie Serenity who is chasing them."

The game flavour is based on Joss Whedon's Firefly (TV Series 2002–2003) & the subsequent movie Serenity.

Per the OP. I don't think anything from the comics should be considered likely inspiration for events/roles here, but it's possible.

With that said, I also think it's a bit much to assume that Tails *can't* be HoB simply because the movie trailer was used, and they weren't present in the movie. Everything there is clearly focused on Simon and/or River, and there's a short list of direct connections(which I've already listed), and an infinite list of indirect connections(for example, someone could argue that the images received actually prove that Tails could be Wash/Zoe, or Mal/Inara, or Simon/Kaylee, because those are the intimate pairings that exist in the show which the trailer could be referencing). I think going down the indirect connection path of analysis completely devalues Chickadee's claimed role and results, and is unlikely to be what was intended...but still, a case could be made if you wanted to go down that rabbit hole.

@Chickadee: Right, that thing. I noticed it, I just didn't think it was important, because it isn't. It says the clue COULD BE something you were involved in with the character. There's nothing certain about the relationship between the information you have and the characters you're copping.

-Cerb

[Jingle]

Per the OP. I don't think anything from the comics should be considered likely inspiration for events/roles here, but it's possible.

That's entirely missing the point. The point isn't that they died in the comics. The point is that they were never even referenced in the movie.

The first of the two videos is about the movie. Entirely about the movie.

The characters you are saying make the most sense for the clue don't appear in the movie.

Therefore, said characters are unlikely to be referenced through specifically a clue centered around the movie.

I'm not disputing that the angle of "They're focused on Simon and River, therefore videos of Simon and River." makes sense. I'm arguing that including a video of the portion of the flavor for which the character is conspicuously absent is a shitty way to leave a clue about the character.

Your case is built on two pieces of evidence that I believe to be counterindicative. A result from Chick suggesting NOT HoB and a crumb from NR suggesting HoB.

[Jingle]

Scum LR would be insane right? Do we need to talk about Toog ever? I've been treating him like conftown since the claim.

Scum LR is possible. Toog's claimed reasoning for his use of the power is definitely town oriented. He's town pending flips/massclaim balance consideration.

[Reasonably Rational]

The videos have two primary points of emphasis:

1.) Simon and River
2.) The fact that they are both on the run

If the videos are to be any use whatsoever, then it follows the connection should be fairly straightforward and should not require a lot of mental leaps.

The first clue was simply a picture of the HoB team, but it was a clue for a character who was never explicitly linked to them in the show. The "connection" between TPFKAP and that picture is that they're both searching for River and Simon. A50 chose to make that character a traitor member of the scum team with the HoB pair (which is a stretch, but stretches are required to make a themed game still mafia).

There isn't actually anything within the videos that should make us prefer one conclusion over another (NR/Tails slot is one of {Simon,River} OR NR/Tails slot is one of the group chasing them). The fact that the first flavor clue did not show the actual character is weak evidence to believe that NR/Tails will be someone not present in the videos.

So logically we have only one piece of weak evidence to make us believe that NR/Tails slot is among the group pursuing River and Simon.

But then we have the crumb, which is one of only two substantive posts that NR made.

And then we have another reason to believe NR/Tails slot is probably scum. Namely NR's behavior. First NR admitted to having a vendetta against us (Cerb and I) because we played to our win con in SU2 and could have chosen another path that would not have eliminated his faction. Then NR desperado shot me in FG's Boundaries of Reality game, which is now over. The rationale for shooting me was stated roughly as "I don't have time to play so I'm going to shoot Drixx because he's probably town and that suicides me out of the game." -- NR literally

game threw

over that vendetta.

But never said a word about time constraints in this game. Just prodged until players demanded a replacement. Why? What would motivate NR to try and stay in a much larger game when he was happy to literally game throw and suicide out of another game due to time constraints?

We can't know for sure at the moment, but given what we have to go by (NR's posts in this game and that now completed game), it doesn't seem like he was trying to stick around to do us good.

Add in the crumbing and it's just more weak evidence. But at this point we have a growing pile of independent pieces of weak evidence with no reason whatsoever to believe the alternative hypothesis.


~D

[Reasonably Rational]

Per the OP. I don't think anything from the comics should be considered likely inspiration for events/roles here, but it's possible.

That's entirely missing the point. The point isn't that they died in the comics. The point is that they were never even referenced in the movie.

The first of the two videos is about the movie. Entirely about the movie.

The characters you are saying make the most sense for the clue don't appear in the movie.

Therefore, said characters are unlikely to be referenced through specifically a clue centered around the movie.

I'm not disputing that the angle of "They're focused on Simon and River, therefore videos of Simon and River." makes sense. I'm arguing that including a video of the portion of the flavor for which the character is conspicuously absent is a shitty way to leave a clue about the character.

Your case is built on two pieces of evidence that I believe to be counterindicative. A result from Chick suggesting NOT HoB and a crumb from NR suggesting HoB.

I disagree with the conclusion that the absence of HoB from the film means the slot can't be HoB.

-Cerb

pedit: Look at Drixx using all the words to say what I was saying.

[CheekyTeeky]

@Ari is there a reason you're not voting?

[Malakittens]

Not feeling great at the moment bbl

[Jingle]

I disagree with the conclusion that the absence of HoB from the film means the slot can't be HoB.

It appears we've reached an impasse.

I should probably give more time to Drixx's post than I'm willing to give at the moment, so... toodles for now.

[Elsa Jay]

(expired on 2018-10-29 22:00:00) remain, yet we seem to have lose critical pushes and are more divided then ever.

Elsa Jay will stop this division with the Lynch of Toogeloo.

Elect Elsa Jay for President.

(This advertisement is sponsered by the Moderator)

[Reasonably Rational]

We will lynch flicker(until someone explains the thing about what we discussed earlier that makes them town) or Tails.
That is as far as we will compromise. That is, not at all.

-Cerb

[Chickadee]

Why Flicker? Did I miss something?

[Reasonably Rational]

The entire thing about flavor in role PMs etc was kicked off by flicker being super reluctant to say anything about their role on even after having claimed their role,combined with scum having flipped with an explicit warning that town do not have flavor. Their reticence and lack of the (as we view it) possibly clearing awareness displayed by cheeky, jingles, and chara makes them more likely to be scum than town. If it were just the ignorance, I'd call it null, but scum would be very aware that they needed to tread lightly if someone was probing I. that direction.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Role on=role PM, mobile, sorry.

-Cerb

[Aristophanes]

So I'm way behind again, but Menno/Gazer feels like a distraction from Tails/Nico.

I'm fine voting the latter

[Light Ethos]

Fair warning: this is my first large game and one of my first games on site. I'll do my best.
So I read the first 40 pages and then have skimmed from page 90 to now. I'd rather not have to go back through 40-90. As far as Chickadee goes, I'm going to lean town flavor cop instead of scum. I can see how a scum flavor cop could be helpful in a multiball scenario without a mass claim, but I'm not sure that a scum player would want to divulge that role yet. From what I've seen of this game, it seems like wagons rise and fall quickly. I don't see a flavor cop using an ambiguous set of videos to try to prevent a lynch as scum.

That being said, the videos are ambiguous. I'm not familiar enough with the show to have an intuition for what the videos mean, but from my perspective, both viewpoints are valid (River/Simon or someone hunting them).

[Tails]

i don't believe Thor read on replace in either, but the difference is he didn't keep bringing it up as an excuse for why he didn't understand a stance.

That's why I ask for quotes or for someone to explain their stance. Speaking of, you still haven't explained what about my entrance you didn't like or thought was scummy.

[Tails]

Tails your rebuttal also talks about your own answers to those questions (as though they matter, when they don't really), but they don't address Thor's point at all. that point being: it doesn't matter and you don't have a case for Cheeky asking pointless questions from these two questions. you keep veering off of the point into "i'm being attacked for trolly answers/snark" and it really is interesting to see that you still want to be townread for that.

I addressed the points well enough and said exactly why I was being so hard on Cheeky. She hadn't done anything else, and when I pressured her on it, she completely collapsed and refused to engage. You seem to essentially be saying that I shouldn't engage at all, but then that I'm scummy for somehow not engaging. You're cherry picking my posts to make it seem as if I'm not trying to move past a static point, and therefore you keep the focus in the exact same place.

[Tails]

Oh also forgot to address that last part and say that I haven't been saying I should be town read for my entrance or play style. But I'm trying to figure out why people are so quick to scum read me outside of the Robin post (which I can't control or argue against).

[Tails]

i don't believe you've actually argued for yourself being town anywhere. and i'm referring to arguing about why your own play is town.

Because I know I'm town, and I don't have to prove it to you. What I will do is counter cases on me about why I'm scum, because that's how you actually play the game. The problem is that the scum cases so far fall to Nico's first post, which I can't say anything more on, or something nebulous about my play, which I then can't get people to explain.
So yeah, I'm pretty frustrated. Doesn't mean I won't stop trying.

[Tails]

The 2 thing is really weird and really seems like a HoB crumb, yeah?

I agree it's weird, but I really want someone to explain why Nico would crumb scum and then do jack all to follow up on that play.

[Tails]

1.)Should first posts be taken seriously or at face value? Yes/No
2.)Why would Nico blatantly crumb a scum role that would be heavily suspected to be in this game? Is she just that bad? If so, did anyone do any meta on her and see if she normally does this and if this has any bearing on this game? (I'm going to guess no on this last one, but I'm willing to be surprised.)
3.)If Nico actually crumbed scum, why was I informed by the mod that the slot had made zero game related posts? (You can choose to believe this or not, or ignore this or not, but my point is to show how ridiculous this reasoning is. I personally feel like I fell into a Monty Python sketch. I literally have to argue against ludicrousy.)

P-edit:

We can play 20 questions all you want. But stop acting insulted when I show how useless you're actually being. And if you're not actually scumhunting, then there's reason to believe you might not be town.

I'm NOT FUCKING ACTING YOU PIECE OF SHIT. YOU CAN'T JUDGE ME AS USELESS UNLESS YOUVE ACTUALLY READ ALL OF MY POSTS SO ACTUALLY GO FUCK YOURSELF.

That escalated quickly

I know. And it bothers me that no one else sees the sudden escalation and how problematic it is.

[Tails]

@Tails what is your knowledge of the flavor?

Watched the show and movie multiple times. Have the first two graphic novels. So pretty good.

[CheekyTeeky]

The entire thing about flavor in role PMs etc was kicked off by flicker being super reluctant to say anything about their role on even after having claimed their role,combined with scum having flipped with an explicit warning that town do not have flavor.

I feel like she was very open with explaning her role PM and the structure of it before a flip.

Spoiler: Flicker explaining role PM

I'm a Town Priest (probably Shepard Book). At least if I die first, it sort of fits narratively, plus my role's "power" is slightly burdensome for town. I was trying to breadcrumb with my emoji choice, but I guess nerd to books to Book isn't that straight-forward.

If you'd like, I can prove my role by trying (and failing) to hammer myself? Normally I wouldn't even gesture toward a self-voting because it's so anti-town, but it genuinely won't do a thing in this case. I checked with the mod, there's no repercussions for trying, either.

I mean, what other priest-like characters are there in Firefly/Serenity, even? If I'm not Book, who on Earth would I be? And if Book's not town, what even is this game?

(And yes, to answer an earlier question I keep forgetting about, it's been a while since I've seen either. I used to be deep in the fandom stuff, though, which I'm relying on to carry me, but d'oh on forgetting Mr. Universe, assuming that's who you - RR? - were alluding to as a major ally in the movie.)

My flavor's redacted, of course. But seriously, who else could I be? Maybe I'm too confident in who I am, but nobody's lining up to prove me wrong yet, either.

Pedit: Yes Chara, it looks scummy, I know, whatever.

RR, I feel like we're edging into dangerous territory near "don't quote your role PM," and I'm also not quite sure what you're asking/what you hope to gain from it, but I'll see if I can't paraphrase my role PM in order.

Flavor redacted
Priest, explanation of role (can't hammer)
No other power
Aligned with Serenity

Okay, I hope that doesn't get me modkilled. Does that answer your question?

pedit: So Flicker, there are zero flavory things like "As a man of the cloth, you would never hang someone yourself. You can not cast the hammering vote on a wagon" or some shit like that? It's just "You a priest, you can not hammer"?

Correct, there's no flavor, just basically, "You're a priest, no hammer for you, other votes are fine."

I mean you could be right but I saw her saying "Aligned with Serenity" as a town tell because scum wouldn't know if we had that in our role PMs. For all scum know we could have had "aligned with town." My biggest issue with Flicker is their lack of contribution to the game post-D1.

Their reticence and lack of the (as we view it) possibly clearing awareness displayed by cheeky, jingles, and chara makes them more likely to be scum than town.

You're scumreading us for disagreeing with you?

[Reasonably Rational]

Aligned with Serenity comes from the Sample town role pm. And you are misreading that post. Flicker did not have the same awareness displayed by {Cheeky, Jingles, chara} which makes them (Flicker) more likely to be scum than town.

~D