Overkill 1: Serenity/Firefly (GAME OVER)

[Toogeloo]

If we never Lynch you, you are effectively a VT, right?

[Elsa Jay]

Fucking fine.

I retract the Neutral part of my claim. I claimed that so I could fucking not get shot yet.

Happy?

Just incase you missed it from before. I'm doing this for Toog in particular because he called me out earlier.

[Chickadee]

Wow, a lot happened since I've been here.

Why tf is everyone on Tails?

VOTE: Aristophanes
But Ari, don't shoot Tails. Please.

[Aristophanes]

If we never Lynch you, you are effectively a VT, right?

Correct!

Wow, a lot happened since I've been here.

Why tf is everyone on Tails?

VOTE: Aristophanes
But Ari, don't shoot Tails. Please.

Why not? Who would you rather I shoot?

This was why I asked for that exercise earlier.

[Aristophanes]

Like, Imma flip town so I can at least make a case you guys can know is from a town perspective for/against your secondary scumreads

I haven't looked at associative reads with you yet. And I'm very sleepy at the moment, so I can do it sometime, but not right now.

For the purposes of this exercise can we assume I flip town?

When I get around to it, I'll look at it both ways if it will make you happy.

You da best <3

[Jingle]

Also if he gets shot.

[Chickadee]

Well that exercise is less impactful after your claiming.

BuJaber, Nancy Drew, RR all seem like good shots.

I used to have RR in my town pile, but that read is changing, based on how hard they're pushing tails and trying to make some wonky logic fit.

[Aristophanes]

Well that exercise is less impactful after your claiming.

BuJaber, Nancy Drew, RR all seem like good shots.

I used to have RR in my town pile, but that read is changing, based on how hard they're pushing tails and trying to make some wonky logic fit.

That's why I tried to delay claiming! XD

Why is one of them better than killing the second most suspected slot atm? And if we're both town, that's all the death from town for the cycle as noted by Jingle. So there are limited downsides to this.

[Reasonably Rational]

@A50: IF there are multiple scum factions in this game, does the multiple death in a single phase protection apply to them collectively, or individually? That is, if each loses a single member, does that mean no further deaths could happen in either faction, or could they each lose *2* before the protection kicked in?

Depending on how many actual vig shots we have(which could be notably less) lynching the vengeful slot and having them blow up town, and not using any protectives, therefore making it so vig shots only kill non-town slots...isn't the worst idea. It does depend a lot on how many target kills we possess, and whether scum possess their own protective's. I think the prospect of false clears and the high likelihood(imo) of scum protectives makes that plan dubious at best, but I appreciate the place Jingle came from in coming up with it.

In short, don't lynch the vengeful claim, make scum shoot him if they don't want to gift town with a free kill at some point. Do lynch the questionable BG claim.

Thanks! <3

(also both wagons are currently L-2)

-Cerb

[Flicker]

@Ari:

Can you confirm if you get a vengekill whichever way you die (lynching, nighkilling, vigs, etc.)? Sorry if you said already and I missed it.

B/c if Jingle's right, then shouldn't we avoid lynching you so you have at least one more flip to work with?

[Reasonably Rational]

@A50: IF there are multiple scum factions in this game, does the multiple death in a single phase protection apply to them collectively, or individually? That is, if each loses a single member, does that mean no further deaths could happen in either faction, or could they each lose *2* before the protection kicked in?

Depending on how many actual vig shots we have(which could be notably less) lynching the vengeful slot and having them blow up town, and not using any protectives, therefore making it so vig shots only kill non-town slots...isn't the worst idea. It does depend a lot on how many target kills we possess, and whether scum possess their own protective's. I think the prospect of false clears and the high likelihood(imo) of scum protectives makes that plan dubious at best, but I appreciate the place Jingle came from in coming up with it.

In short, don't lynch the vengeful claim, make scum shoot him if they don't want to gift town with a free kill at some point. Do lynch the questionable BG claim.

Thanks! <3

(also both wagons are currently L-2)

-Cerb

Forgot the bolding!

@Chickadee: We're men of conviction, and our logic is FAR from wonky. Every argument *against* our logic is at BEST focused on a singular point of our reasons for believing Tails is scum, and as a whole are weaker.

I think you're simply too attached to the idea that we'd be "wasting" your check by lynching them.

-Cerb

[Jingle]

@Ari:

Can you confirm if you get a vengekill whichever way you die (lynching, nighkilling, vigs, etc.)? Sorry if you said already and I missed it.

B/c if Jingle's right, then shouldn't we avoid lynching you so you have at least one more flip to work with?

Traditionally vengeful only works when lynched. I was saying he's a VT if he's shot.

[Toogeloo]

I'm getting the distinct feeling that there isn't actually a lot of wonky power heaviness in this setup. With Elsa lying, I'm going to assume he lied about the Ascetic portion of his role as well and actually did protect me last night.

I think that Tails is a bad venge shot, and think BuJaber or Light Ethos might be better shots, but if you can only kill someone on your wagon, use your best judgement I guess.

VOTE: Ari

[Aristophanes]

@Ari:

Can you confirm if you get a vengekill whichever way you die (lynching, nighkilling, vigs, etc.)? Sorry if you said already and I missed it.

B/c if Jingle's right, then shouldn't we avoid lynching you so you have at least one more flip to work with?

Traditionally vengeful only works when lynched. I was saying he's a VT if he's shot.

Can confirm

[Reasonably Rational]

This is terrible, and you should all feel terrible for deliberately lynching someone who you believe is town(because otherwise why would you believe their claim/expect them to use it to benefit town).

This is literally a deliberate mislynch, without certainty that it will have a mechanical payoff.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Like wtf is this thought process?

"Let's just get this mislynch to happen so that way they can go shoot someone else who I'm suspicious of, instead of actually getting that person lynched organically in the future and making scum shoot this one unless they want them to get them at a later point"

-Cerb

[Aristophanes]

It's arguably the best move for town, no?
Guide my venge and lock tonight into a possible no-town-death scenario.

[Reasonably Rational]

It's arguably the best move for town, no?
Guide my venge and lock tonight into a possible no-town-death scenario.

No, it's not.

Not at all.

Because if we were to mislynch elsewhere, we still lose only one at most tonight.

-Cerb

[Aristophanes]

Like wtf is this thought process?

"Let's just get this mislynch to happen so that way they can go shoot someone else who I'm suspicious of, instead of actually getting that person lynched organically in the future and making scum shoot this one unless they want them to get them at a later point"

-Cerb

We said the same thing but with different inflections! How interesting

[Reasonably Rational]

Also I'm deliberately making short posts right now because Ari is at L-1 and people are stupid and will hammer them.

-Cerb

[Aristophanes]

It's arguably the best move for town, no?
Guide my venge and lock tonight into a possible no-town-death scenario.

No, it's not.

Not at all.

Because if we were to mislynch elsewhere, we still lose only one at most tonight.

-Cerb

Which is probably me now so scum can avoid all this hassle of my shot later down the road.
I likely die either way. Why not be useful?

I mean, we have Doc, Cop-thing, and masons claimed. I'm not being protected. Easy shot for scum to take!

[Aristophanes]

Also I'm deliberately making short posts right now because Ari is at L-1 and people are stupid and will hammer them.

-Cerb

Makes sense!

I will hammer if it gets to deadline but no point atm.

RR, who would you have me shoot?

[Toogeloo]

BuJaber
CheekyTeeky
Light Ethos
Chara

That's where I would probably put a bullet.

PEdit: If Ari is who I think he is, he has an opportunity to remove one anti town element from the game, and with a bit of intellectual and savvy gameplay, possibly shoot a scum in the process. There's also the possibility he's just plain scum too, but if he's basically useless power unless he's lynched, he should really have the final say in what or how he goes about using his power. Since he's already condoned his Lynch, it's safe to assume he wants this route as well.

[Aristophanes]

Well that exercise is less impactful after your claiming.

BuJaber, Nancy Drew, RR all seem like good shots.

I used to have RR in my town pile, but that read is changing, based on how hard they're pushing tails and trying to make some wonky logic fit.

Of these RR is the only one I'd actively consider. Why Nancy?

RR is really all over the place in my reads and I've fluctuated a lot, so even they are unlikely tbh.

[Reasonably Rational]

I mean. Outed venge utility is that scum must shoot them, or else they risk being eliminated in a 3p lylo lynch, instead of winning the game. I don't see the benefit of MAYBE making our vigs cops as worth throwing away a day, functionally.

Especially given that N1 was lightning rod night, and if anyone had limited shot vigness, they might have less. And that the possible town killing roles in this game don't need to be targeted...which means they *don't* get the benefit of this travesty.

-Cerb