Overkill 1: Serenity/Firefly (GAME OVER)

[Reasonably Rational]

also in light of this let's never lynch Elsa. like Ari, Elsa can make the brave, noble sacrifice of suiciding to flip a scum. potentially.

pedit: ok, excellent.

Almost: so far, disappointed with the Overkill title. this game is severely lacking in blood. i'm going to assume this our fault and not yours.

Let's never lynch Elsa? Hider's do *nothing* to help flip scum. All she does is keep from getting shot herself. I don't understand your reasoning here, help me.

-Cerb

[Chara]

if Elsa's really a hider, he's either getting shot to frame somebody or he's going to die on scum. we shouldn't need to use a lynch on him.
of course, if he's lying and we figure that out it's a different story.

[Chara]

wait, if hiders hide behind town who gets killed, they die too.
so he wouldn't even need to be shot. we just need to get him to die at night. that seems very easy in this game.

[Chara]

in 3751 you can see me forget how hider works! i suppose it's my fault for never really thinking of it as anything but a weak cop.

[Reasonably Rational]

Oh, and

VOTE: Tails

Everything we were talking about yesterday is still true. Interactions with Menno slot need to be examined, but given that there are non HoB scum options for the line of reasoning we used...even that couldn't exonerate them.

I'd also like to note that looking at Ari's flip, our position that town have further information in their role PM's after the redacted part, which is not shared in the sample pm, is still supported by all available evidence. In Ari's case, the words "a member of the Serenity crew." were present.

-Cerb

[Toogeloo]

Day Cop Jingle or Gamma, clear two slots.

[ruru]

votecount

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Tails (1):

Reasonably Rational (3754),

Not voting (12):

Flicker,

Toogeloo,

Tails,

Chara,

RightNight,

Chickadee,

Jingle,

BuJaber,

CheekyTeeky,

Elsa Jay,

Malakittens,

Gamma Emerald,

(expired on 2018-11-15 18:45:00) remain.

[Reasonably Rational]

if Elsa's really a hider, he's either getting shot to frame somebody or he's going to die on scum. we shouldn't need to use a lynch on him.
of course, if he's lying and we figure that out it's a different story.

I mean.

Elsa is basically coming up with a sequence of claims that are intended to keep people from shooting at them.

Neutral 1 shot BP Ascetic doc.
Town 1 shot ascetic BP doc when they thought the plan had a good chance of getting two town slots killed, so nobody would even bother trying to shoot them.
Town 1 shot ascetic bp used hider, so nobody has any reason to ever shoot at them because they won't be able to kill them that way.

There's basically no reason why they would ever hide behind someone who is likely to be shot at.

-Cerb

[Flicker]

Day Cop Jingle or Gamma, clear two slots.

Isn't it better to hunt for scum than clear town at this stage, though?

[Reasonably Rational]

Day Cop Jingle or Gamma, clear two slots.

Not a day cop, flavor cop, so it won't clear the two slots.

This is a valid option though.

-Cerb

[Chara]

the full-flavoured version of Ari's PM lacks the line about being a member of the crew. thoughts?

pedit: they aren't clear, Flicker.

[Malakittens]

Uh no

[Chara]

There's basically no reason why they would ever hide behind someone who is likely to be shot at.

if Elsa's really town, essentially he can prove it by purposely hitting a scum slot. if not, he knows what happens.
that's how i feel about it.

[Reasonably Rational]

if Elsa's really a hider, he's either getting shot to frame somebody or he's going to die on scum. we shouldn't need to use a lynch on him.
of course, if he's lying and we figure that out it's a different story.

I mean.

Elsa is basically coming up with a sequence of claims that are intended to keep people from shooting at them.

Neutral 1 shot BP Ascetic doc.
Town 1 shot ascetic BP doc when they thought the plan had a good chance of getting two town slots killed, so nobody would even bother trying to shoot them.
Town 1 shot ascetic bp used hider, so nobody has any reason to ever shoot at them because they won't be able to kill them that way.

There's basically no reason why they would ever hide behind someone who is likely to be shot at.

-Cerb

By the way I hadn't even realized that, but yeah. That's why they switched their claim from neutral to town. As one of the few neutrals, if two town flipped, their existing claim would have made them the obvious target for all scum to shoot at.

-Cerb

[Flicker]

pedit: they aren't clear, Flicker.

They claimed masons, though (Zoe/Wash, more specifically). Are there plausible non-town/scum characters that comes to mind as masons in this universe for you?

Also, Jingle's one of my strong townreads at this point. I feel like checking him or Gamma is a waste when we could be looking for another of the scum/3P who seem to outnumber us.

[Reasonably Rational]

There's basically no reason why they would ever hide behind someone who is likely to be shot at.

if Elsa's really town, essentially he can prove it by purposely hitting a scum slot. if not, he knows what happens.
that's how i feel about it.

We don't know what version of hider exists in this game.

If we want to go to the wiki, the most common version does not die when targeting scum. A weak hider is the original version, and does die when targeting scum. I'm almost certain that Elsa does not die when targeting scum if their claim is true, because otherwise they would have crumbed/announced their targets in advance and/or just claimed outright on D1. That's optimal town utility for them.

What they've been doing? Not how you play a weak hider. Could be how you play a regular hider, I guess...until it comes to now, when they've just exhausted all the utility in the role(which is to have people shoot at you)..oh, and except for the part where they claimed bp alongside claiming the ability that gives people a reason to shoot at them.

-Cerb

[Chara]

actually, Cerb, the wiki explicitly states that the weak hider is the most common variation. not that that would matter to Almost.
but that's being nitpicky. you're right in that Elsa needs to claim if he dies on scum or not.

anyway, the way he's been playing this game isn't how most town would play it, period. his claims are ridiculously suspicious, so regardless of the type of hider he is, at this point if he's town i'm telling him to die at night and give us information, or get lynched in a few days.

[BuJaber]

Just check elsa .. confirm the ascetic part at least

[BuJaber]

No nevermind flicker/Nancy way better checks.

[BuJaber]

Chara if he's not weak what would hiding behind scummy players give us?

[Chara]

file that one under 'wastes of a flavour cop'.
it's only helpful if Elsa is both scum

and

lying about ascetic. could be scum telling a truth, or town telling a truth.
checking somebody else assures we can actually use the result, friendly or scum.

pedit: if Elsa isn't weak then i'd just hope he dies upon a nightkill like with Thor.

[Chara]

my call for Elsa to hide behind scummy players was when i thought Hiders were almost always weak. i've never encountered one that wasn't. obviously i'm wrong but Elsa dying at night is still best-case.

[BuJaber]

To be honest it doesn't matter that much I think. He either dies at night or We have to lynch Elsa soon if the game doesn't end with another HoB flip or if we don't find the 2nd HoB.

[Chara]

it matters. i think it was right to not lynch Mala earlier even though i wanted to. if we can eliminate Elsa without using up a mislynch that's one more town-controlled kill for us.
i want town Elsa to know that removing himself from the game is better than being lynched, for town.

i'm not looking forward to rereading this game to see who defended/soft-defended Ethos slot besides me and Rational, but it's a good idea.

[RightKnight]

No nevermind flicker/Nancy way better checks.

For the record I only thought this after LE's flip, because I admit I was townreading thor pretty hard.

But menno was scum and you guys still wanted to waste our time with nonsense.

Tails is still suspect in my book.

Also why does chick have to be town RR? She could be honest and scum.

It's a good scum PR to have in multiball.

Pedit - I say check flicker or nancy.

I don't think I need to be checked, but apparently I'm not as obvtown as I thought I would be to everyone by now.

I mean look at all the crumbing and talking about Mala. What kind of scum motivation am I going for to locktown someone who had barely posted at the time?

Why would you want me checked in particular? You were hardtown reading us until very recently? What changed?

We will of course have to wait for Elsa/Tails to claim who they targeted but for you to doubt

both

Chick and us, is concerning - when EJ hinted that he would either protect us or Jingle/Gamma and suggested Tails protect Chick. No town was killed yesterday and based on what EJ posted EOD, your post makes no sense wrt Chick/me.

~Nancy

The only thing I feel fairly confident about is that if EJ hadn’t had strongly hinted he’d protect us, I’m pretty sure we’d be dead now. My guess? Scum expected EJ to likely save one of either Chick or me and he saved the right one. That’s the only thing I think that explains why there was no townkill last night.

As for Thor, my first reaction was that Cheeky was right about a vig being in this game but then I realized that Mafia could also account for it. Skygazer also likely spewed Chick town with his scumslip. If Ari/Tails weren’t the lead wagons, I would have switched my vote back to LE. I was also really out of it on D2. Thankfully, I am seeing things a lot more clearly now.

I was saying to Math, that you seemed almost a bit upset? Which is kind of pinging me for some reason.