Mini Theme 2043: You've Got Mail - Game Over!

[Performer]

Votecount 1.04

shortaru : Carcalilly
Carcalilly: SirCakez
SirCakez: Wisdom
Fuwa Fuwa Time (2): Flubbernugget, ThoseInCharge
Gamma Emerald (4): Thor665, BBmolla, Fuwa Fuwa Time, shortaru
Thor665 : Gamma Emerald
Celestial Coordinates:
ThoseInCharge : Celestial Coordinates
Flubbernugget:
Creature: Akarin
BBmolla:
Wisdom:
Akarin:


Not voting : Creature
No lynch: no one
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 ends on (expired on 2018-11-07 16:12:53)


Moderator notes: Celestial Coordinates has returned....

How do you influence others via mail and other forms of messages? Techniques include simplifying information and ideas, responding to audience needs & values, attacking opponents (legitimacy, accuracy, credibility), appealing to appropriate emotions, responding to audience needs & values.
Source - https://propaganda.mediaeducationlab.com/techniques

[Wisdom]

my skim says both gamma and thor are town, and flubber also joins the list

[Wisdom]

Current poe

Fuwa Fuwa Time
Bbmolla Light Ethos
Celestial Coordinates RadiantCowbellsCelestial Coordinates*
Creature
SirCakez
ThoseInCharge

Town tell harder if you see your name

[Thor665]

Uh yeah thor, that's not baiting you. It's doubting your meta on gamma. Which if you cant talk about, I am going to doubt too. If you're this confident in gamma being scum you should be able to sell a case with tells outside of this meta conversation.

I didn't say he was baiting me.
Here's the breakdown of what happened.

Me: I have meta on Gamma that suggests scum.
Gamma: That's ridiculous.
Me: Why? You saying this meta is wrong?
Gamma: No. I'm saying I wouldn't expect you to be aware of my new meta because we haven't played together in a long time (here he's edging a lie, but might be just really supportive of site rules).
Me: [redacted] and I may have read some other stuff due to that.
Gamma: Specify which games you read (on this meta I'm already admitting you're right on)
Me: That's silly, you're not being honest in this communication.
Gamma: Nah, it's scummy you didn't list some games (even though you literally could have just listed like my last ten games, claimed you read them, and I'd have no basis to counter you since I'm already claiming your meta is accurate)
Me: You are well aware I don't only have ancient meta awareness of you.
Flubber: I apparently am not reading anything.
Shortaru: Thor did this!
Flubber: Calls out Thor for a thing Thor never did.

Does this make sense to you now?

Using the ongoing is a site rules issue.

Not entirely true - you're allowed to have ongoing games effect how you read people. You just can't discuss those reads functionally till after any ongoing games you need to reference are over.
I will note, again, that Gamma has already agreed that the meta I discussed about him is accurate meta.

my skim says both gamma and thor are town, and flubber also joins the list

Flubber basically open claimed that he isn't reading the thread, so pretty 'meh' there.
Clearly I'm town
How do you get Gamma town though? I'm really far away from that - can you walk me through how you see this playing in a townGamma situation?
Is he just Smurfing with me for yucks? Because that's about all I can see - digging at me for bringing up accurate meta and claiming I have no new meta ability to draw from with him to the point of voting me over it reads very scummy to me.

[Thor665]

re: meta Scumread, I’d say your meta was right if you had played with me recently, but our last game together was Newbie 1836, which was before my meta shift, so your evidence is wrong despite having a valid thought process. I don’t recall rolling scum in a game with you in it even.

@Wisdom - Just read this response from Gamma then talk me through how it's town.

[Carcalilly]

I can confirm that gamma is acting a little bit differently than our recent games, but I never recall playing with scum!gamma before

[Carcalilly]

I think we've got 1 or 2 new games with us so please let's confer those

[Gamma Emerald]

Hm
Recalled something wrong, I thought among his list of meta theories was one about not interacting with scumreads being stupid

What is this in reference to?

I was referencing 281

[Akarin]

V/LA Friday/Saturday/Sunday

[Akarin]

It's a

way

better case.

The reason your case is inferior is because you are judging those posts in a vacuum, ignoring everything else that was going on in the game.

There is no missing context from my case. Thor flat out another I was right.

That's the opposite of what I'm doing, my only issue with those posts

is

the context, i.e. the wagon on you.

[Akarin]

Am I actually being crazy here?

Also what's up with this?

Probably. In hindsight, if I was given the exact same PM as my predecessor, than it could make sense (in one game, Mastina gave me every role related PM that was sent between my predecessor and herself when I replaced in, and I could also see the case where a moderator would include the name of the recipient with area tags). However, in most cases, I generally only expect to see teammates' names in Role PM's, so my natural reaction to your question is that they would not see their own name listed.

They're two different things.

I don't mean the PM, I mean if you get a scum PM, you go to the scum QT, right? And then you post something there to confirm and read what the rest of the scumteam had to say. And probably a post like this at the top:
Subject: Mini 1758: Mafia Scum PT

Welcome to your mafia scum private thread,

Curiouskarmadog , camn , and Lokiben!

You're able to speak here at pregame and at nighttime.

But also, why did you want to comment on that particular post? (163)

[Akarin]

Where do you see the issue here? Do I need a "strong" RVS town read to sheep someone? I disagree rather aggressively - the entire concept of RVS is that you take mild reads and behave like they're strong to advance the game.

I'm saying that you came in on page 4, RVS was ending, Shortaru wagon was taking off, you had a town read there, ThoseInCharge had made one content post. I can see where you get the TiC townread, my question is why was that

THE

thing to vote on at that time?

[Akarin]

I'd argue that pushing a case you cant talk about is just as AI as calling that out, if not more AI

AI as in significantly scummy in and of itself?

[Akarin]

Okay, well I'm out until Monday afternoon probably, but really, no one has anything at all to say about my Creature vote?

[Carcalilly]

Creature is probably town based on meta for me

[Fuwa Fuwa Time]

Am I actually being crazy here?

Also what's up with this?

Probably. In hindsight, if I was given the exact same PM as my predecessor, than it could make sense (in one game, Mastina gave me every role related PM that was sent between my predecessor and herself when I replaced in, and I could also see the case where a moderator would include the name of the recipient with area tags). However, in most cases, I generally only expect to see teammates' names in Role PM's, so my natural reaction to your question is that they would not see their own name listed.

They're two different things.

I don't mean the PM, I mean if you get a scum PM, you go to the scum QT, right? And then you post something there to confirm and read what the rest of the scumteam had to say. And probably a post like this at the top:
Subject: Mini 1758: Mafia Scum PT

Welcome to your mafia scum private thread,

Curiouskarmadog , camn , and Lokiben!

You're able to speak here at pregame and at nighttime.

But also, why did you want to comment on that particular post? (163)

I think it depends on the moderator. I've been able to confirm before by just responding to the PM.

Gamma is town, besides his unknowing self-vote, which reads as genuine to me, if TheGoldenParadox got a

scum PM

and Gamma got a

scum PM

, one or the other of them would see the other listed instead of themselves, wouldn't they?

I responded to this because, as far as I could tell, I thought you were referring to just the role PM. I didn't agree with it and wanted to know why you thought this (I also didn't really put much thought into this as I already explained in 311.

I also thought that

if

you were referring to the scum PT, it was from the 'unknowing self-vote' (not really sure why else the self-vote would be significant to you), but that was a different clause and I treated it as such.

[Fuwa Fuwa Time]

I actually already thought Shortaru was town before I engaged him.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

This only makes you scummier, because it means you have done less sorting on page 5, because posts 103 and 117 don't do much for you in your reads, but also 106, which I saw as either questioning short or convincing him of scum!Gamma, which is not in line with your stances on both of them.

103: This was mostly curiosity and maybe a potential teaching moment.
105: I was giving him my opinion of what Thor did/was doing. Wasn't so much a push as me trying to give my own take on the matter.
106: Just because I think someone is town doesn't mean I think everything someone does is town-indicative. I also wasn't completely sold on the 'self-vote' indicating town-Gamma (otherwise I probably wouldn't have been as open to discussing that read with Thor as I was in 109), and was interested in seeing if there was anything else that could point that direction (as in Shortaru seeing something that maybe other people don't). Also, just because someone agrees with me on a read, it doesn't make them town. And just because I think someone is town, it doesn't mean I'm right.
117: To my knowledge, this is supposedly Shortaru's first game with Wisdom. So I was curious as to why he didn't think Wisdom would explain his reads.

And if you read 115, you would see that I wasn't sure why he didn't think discussing his reads with me was productive. It was because I was trying to engage him and figure out his thoughts on some things and I wasn't really pushing to try and lynch him.

I also don't understand why you think that me already thinking someone is town means I'm doing 'less sorting' when I engage with them. I'm still free to question my own reads and change them in light of new information.

[SirCakez]

I'll be here tomorrow morning

[Gamma Emerald]

I actually already thought Shortaru was town before I engaged him.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

This only makes you scummier, because it means you have done less sorting on page 5, because posts 103 and 117 don't do much for you in your reads, but also 106, which I saw as either questioning short or convincing him of scum!Gamma, which is not in line with your stances on both of them.

103: This was mostly curiosity and maybe a potential teaching moment.
105: I was giving him my opinion of what Thor did/was doing. Wasn't so much a push as me trying to give my own take on the matter.
106: Just because I think someone is town doesn't mean I think everything someone does is town-indicative. I also wasn't completely sold on the 'self-vote' indicating town-Gamma (otherwise I probably wouldn't have been as open to discussing that read with Thor as I was in 109), and was interested in seeing if there was anything else that could point that direction (as in Shortaru seeing something that maybe other people don't). Also, just because someone agrees with me on a read, it doesn't make them town. And just because I think someone is town, it doesn't mean I'm right.
117: To my knowledge, this is supposedly Shortaru's first game with Wisdom. So I was curious as to why he didn't think Wisdom would explain his reads.

And if you read 115, you would see that I wasn't sure why he didn't think discussing his reads with me was productive. It was because I was trying to engage him and figure out his thoughts on some things and I wasn't really pushing to try and lynch him.

I also don't understand why you think that me already thinking someone is town means I'm doing 'less sorting' when I engage with them. I'm still free to question my own reads and change them in light of new information.

@FFT your post tags are broken

[Fuwa Fuwa Time]

Well, I used the Post tags, so blame it on MS.

[Wisdom]

You put ":" in them and broke them

[Fuwa Fuwa Time]

Oh, lol. I do remember doing that. Mystery solved.

[Thor665]

Where do you see the issue here? Do I need a "strong" RVS town read to sheep someone? I disagree rather aggressively - the entire concept of RVS is that you take mild reads and behave like they're strong to advance the game.

I'm saying that you came in on page 4, RVS was ending, Shortaru wagon was taking off, you had a town read there, ThoseInCharge had made one content post. I can see where you get the TiC townread, my question is why was that

THE

thing to vote on at that time?

Considering I had indicated Shortaru as a town read what do you suggest

THE

thing to vote on should have been for me?

====================

Gamma is running silent on my raised issue.
People should be voting that.

[Gamma Emerald]

What raised issue?

[Flubbernugget]

I'd argue that pushing a case you cant talk about is just as AI as calling that out, if not more AI

AI as in significantly scummy in and of itself?

I didn't speak to the significance. Just that thor and gamma are being equally stupid about this.