mini normal 2042: labeled pictures meme mafia (game over)

[Keyser Söze]

I was also baiting the Carmen-Irrelephant scum team theory.

Spoiler:

Nope, my read on Irrelephant just sucks

55% of my bad feels are shamefully based on his activity.
The other 45% on associations via players I’m not t/reading

[the worst]

hrmph fair

I feel like I should have a better read on Rel than I do rn but yeah the tinfoil Rel/teacher read earlier has me a tiny bit confbiased

[Keyser Söze]

From the last couple pages I can now finally buy a ticket to the Shoshin town show too.


@scum - you missed the chance to feed my early suspicion.

[Shoshin]

Irrelephant is town.

Can you convince me real quick?

Does he seem like a calculating mastermind pushing a scum agenda or a clueless townie who knows very well how to read a couple players (e.g. myself) but struggles with others?

Trying to defuse a potential argument between myself & Carmen is really towny from him. Just felt genuine. Don't see him doing that as scum. I see him taking more of my side in that, at least at the start.

His overall passivity is really towny. It's hard to imagine him this passive as scum. Like, c'mon. Irrelephant strongly prefers playing as scum. And this isn't what that looks like.

And his response to the "Irrelephant isn't town yet" bit felt towny. The "interesting" line in particular. I think he'd respond differently if scum. Either questioning my alignment or read more defensively, or on the opposite end of the spectrum, acting entirely indifferent/unconcerned about how I read him.

[the worst]

Okay that's very very valid. I'll need to have a think about that; I'll admit I've been reserving slightly because I thought Rel had a strong preference for TOWN for some reason. (maybe because he's good at it )

I guess principally the response I'd be inclined to come back with is the the PoE heavy gamestate means it makes sense for scum!Rrelephant to NOT come in swinging but to passively do things that look like town. But basically comparing this post with yours I'm finding you more convincing than the voices in my head.... Probability says this becomes sortable later anyway

[Shoshin]

Back to Carmen. I feel like town in her position (L-1, under pressure) almost always care a lot about their potential mislynch, whereas scum tend to pretend they don't care because they wrongly think that lack of concern is a town-tell that will save them.

I think nine times out of ten, town in Carmen's position explain their reads instead of pretending they don't care, whereas scum often (more than half the time) keep refusing because they wrongly think that changing their behavior in response to votes makes them look scummy (changing behavior in reponse to votes isn't scummy; more often than not, it's the opposite).

I think in Carmen's case, it's even scummier because she's going out of her way to point out what she's doing, which is to say, the problem isn't just that she doesn't care about her lynching, the problem is that she's making a show of her lack of concern.

[Shoshin]

Thoughts on that, the worst?

[the worst]

I'm coming around; I thought the timing of her reads and their weights in confidence originally FELT like town but given her shutdown when put under pressure I'm thinking she's anxious about being exposed for the lack of depth nuance etc. in her posting so has defaulted to a WIFOMy "scum!me would never be this uncharismatic!!!" response which is heavily wolf indicative

so she's trending down, Rel is trending up slightly but I probably need to re mesh my reads when I'm not running around a shopping centre.

Carmen/teacher have any anti associative moments?

[Keyser Söze]

Carmen/teacher have any anti associative moments?

Teacher on Carmen: “

Carmen -- A similar read to Keyser. There is more I like here, such as the early interactions with Shoshin in 46 and 53. I am seeing some effort to sort, but am not sure I buy the sorting that results -- the townread on Sheep from asking for a Wiki, and the scumread on elephant both seem pretty empty. I certainly dont think you can call Elephant's ISO totally devoid of content, and am not sure I buy that Sheep actually wanted to metadive. pure null.

”

Teacher also picked up on the ‘emptiness’ of Carmen’s town and scum reads... this is good reading looking back. “Pure null” feels wrong though. Were Carmen’s interactions with Shoshin that town-indicative to balance the suspicious reads? Nothing shouts PARTNERS from this post though (I think).

Not many Carmen-Teacher interactions. I wanted Carmen to actually talk to Krazy in real time this weekend, but maybe we also need to see Carmen and teacher to talk in real time too (two slots I feel we’ve been thinking: which one of the two are scum..? ...instead of both)

[teacher]

Im now the AFK along with Krazy, and you have my apologies because I hate that normally. I slept for 12 hours when I intended to play last night. Im judging a debate tourney today but will get in action between rounds and definitely tonight as Im rested.

My reads have gotten stronger on town TW. A little weaker on Xwing simply from coasting when they are vla weekends and didnt seem to do much after securing a townread on Thur and Fri, but I still think the contentful posts ring townie. FWS has moved way down for me, Key has moved way up. Im at the point where my pool is Krazy, Elephant, Carmen, FWS.

Im still conflicted on Carmen and Elephant. Im locked that there is a scum there, but I want to double ISO for more confidence on which one. To be clear, my pure nulls on both were thinking one must be scum but not having strong pings on which one. Im also hesistant on reading Elephant because I have a genuine like for him as a person - I like how the game isnt personal for him. In my three games with him, Ive also misread him three times, so have little confidence on my ability to read his playstyle.

In addition to that double ISO, Im going to do a game search for Krazy, because I think reactions to that AFK may be informative. I want that slot to play the weekend like they said they would, and the two Friday posts seem like posting just to post without content or taking stances.

[FLUFFY WHITE SHEEP]

This is responding to 439.
1. I mean, I was looking for someone to sink my teeth into. I already explained my thoughts about Shoshin at that time if you don't understand them I can't really help you unless you state what you understand.
2. Ok. I'm going to read Shoshin's meta after I finish catching up.
3. 37 comes from scum because it's survivalistic (keep in mind this read does not keep in Shoshin's meta as of yet). 56 can come from either, it's easy to fake.
4. Ok
5. Are you saying I seem inexperienced because I'm not understanding Shoshin's meta?
6. It was still pretty early game so I was throwing my vote around. Also metareads are usually either correct or will get corrected.
7. Ok
8. Ok
9. Ok
10. Uh. I'm actually not sure what you want to from me here. Everything I didn't mention was null to me, nothing striking. Is there something I'm missing you would like me to comment on
11. Ok
12. Ok
13. Maybe Shosh should learn to react better to scumreads for her own good?
14. Ok
Wow this number thing makes me look lazy out of context.
I really like the worst's progression here, reevaluating his read. I think its townie. Now I'm going to meta Shoshin.

[the worst]

I think i ended up accidentally being the voice of reason I was looking for from another slot for myself. that was.....conveneint......

[teacher]

Im catching back up so going to be spamposting responses and reactions..\

scum-Irrelephant doesn't dive in to save scum-Shoshin's bacon here.

wk tho?

[snip]
what does white knighting have to do with this? what do you think made scum Irrelephant feel like this was a good time to swoop in and defend his scum buddy? or are you just being a contrian here?

I may not be using WK correctly. I view it as scum potentially TMI defending town. so I was suggesting I found Elephant's timing and defense.....interesting, especially since his take was different than mine. I now find it not as interesting since the meta take has been echoed by many others and Sho has towned herself from my perspective as well.

[teacher]

I agree his more recent posts have been more likeable, do you see them as coming from any alignment or the other?

He has moved up to a softtown for me over the course of the day after my post as well. Ill share what moved him after the readthrough.

[Shoshin]

This is responding to 439.
1. I mean, I was looking for someone to sink my teeth into. I already explained my thoughts about Shoshin at that time if you don't understand them I can't really help you unless you state what you understand.
2. Ok. I'm going to read Shoshin's meta after I finish catching up.
3. 37 comes from scum because it's survivalistic (keep in mind this read does not keep in Shoshin's meta as of yet). 56 can come from either, it's easy to fake.
4. Ok
5. Are you saying I seem inexperienced because I'm not understanding Shoshin's meta?
6. It was still pretty early game so I was throwing my vote around. Also metareads are usually either correct or will get corrected.
7. Ok
8. Ok
9. Ok
10. Uh. I'm actually not sure what you want to from me here. Everything I didn't mention was null to me, nothing striking. Is there something I'm missing you would like me to comment on
11. Ok
12. Ok
13. Maybe Shosh should learn to react better to scumreads for her own good?
14. Ok
Wow this number thing makes me look lazy out of context.
I really like the worst's progression here, reevaluating his read. I think its townie. Now I'm going to meta Shoshin.

Re: 3 - first off, I wasn't nearly as survivalistic as you keep making out, a lot of what you're saying is your own imagination about what my motives were; and second, even if I had been survivalistic, that isn't scummy. Being survivalistic in response to pressure isn't scummy. Again, it's the opposite. Seems you still have a lot to learn.

Re: 13 - As the worst can attest, I've experienced a great deal of lynching pressure in my games, yet rarely get if ever get mislynched, even when people don't know my meta. I'd suggest the issue here isn't my response, since my record shows I'm actually really good at dealing with scumreads/pressure, and actually the problem is your understand of what's scummy. Maybe you should reevaluate your scumhunting metrics and see the bigger picture of how my responses have helped me read the players around me.

[Shoshin]

Really bad vote, Carmen. Really bad.

FWS is reading way more into this than he should be -- there's nothing survivalistic or scummy about calling a bad vote bad.

Worse, he's placing more weight here than feels natural. Like, even if he thought this were survivalistic, it's still directly offensive and only indirectly suvivalistic... there's no reason to assume my only motive is survival... I mean, survival wasn't even on my radar when I made that post, my motive was to scumhunt by taking a strong (and valid) position about Carmen's vote... so why assume it's solely survivalistic?

Feels like FWS is strongly overreaching/tunneling in an unnatural way. I don't get the sense that he's actually trying to sort my alignment, or he would have come around on me a long time ago. It seems like he doesn't know how to fluidly change his opinion (something that some players tend to struggle with as scum).

[teacher]

carmen thoughts.

Sold. These were quite convincing.

intent

. Im popping in and catching up still throughout the day as well, so glad to answer any questions.

[teacher]

I actually do townread Krazy, though, despite my annoyance with his reasoning.

Based on what, exactly?

[teacher]

intent.

Can someone other than me confirm that its only L-2 right now due to Key's unvote. I will vote now if that is confirmed.

[teacher]

Carmen is town.

Sho, I get your position in both cases, but it seems like a really hard 180 you did in the 120 posts between this and now. What moved you off of sheep, or why were you so willing to pingpong this slot?

[teacher]

I agree his more recent posts have been more likeable, do you see them as coming from any alignment or the other?

He has moved up to a softtown for me over the course of the day after my post as well. Ill share what moved him after the readthrough.

Since you were asking about a comment made in my 220, my thoughts at the time were: "145[/post and [post]148 feel good to me as sorting and calling things out - but could be busywork? 171also felt like genuine thoughts, but could be scum-flexing?" Bottom line, they felt good and towny, but I could see scum motives.

Since that comment (and your question) however, I have continued to really like Key's play, which to me raises the Occam's razor odds of it being towny. I liked his pressure for me to vote (him), I like his explanation of the Xwing suspicion, I like that he corrected tw on the L-1 being intentional, and I like his acknowedging the few bright stars in my ISO while continuing to PoE me. I even really like 244. The partner searches and the play overall just feels real, and insightful.

[Shoshin]

I moved off FWS because I wanted to pressure Carmen. I stayed on Carmen because I realized she's scum.

I changed my read on Carmen because of new information. Remember, I townread Carmen before she gave a bunch of vague & lazy reads, before she refused to explain her thought process with a meaningful degree of specificity, and before she defended herself with WIFOM after being put at L-1.

Carmen reacted very poorly to my questioning and to being put at L-1.

[FLUFFY WHITE SHEEP]

Like, is Irrelephant's reason for me being his strongest scumread still my "cold take"? Really? Was that ever a real reason for someone being a top scumread, or was it just that he realized that a townblock was forming too fast and he needed someone he could mislynch then?

:OOOO

[FLUFFY WHITE SHEEP]

Subject: Newbie 1869 | Stuff I found online II | Over

what do you suggest we do instead?

Let's lynch MafMen.

This clears up some doubt.

[FLUFFY WHITE SHEEP]

Nice formatting me.