Open 738: Purgatory | LA FIN

[Keyser Söze]

Ok, let’s stop talking about you (but Volxen and I are still waiting for the full case on me before D2).

Can you give me a summary case of Creature.


From my experience with town-Creature:
- his spam will always outweigh his content
- he’ll never LAMIST/try to convey super-Townie
- he’ll project that he’s not bothered about being s/read
- antagonise players s/reading him
- not explain every one of his votes in great detail
- his read trajectory won’t be explicit and supported

I would usually s/read other players for being guilty for some of these, but Creature does these as town.


You said my “meta on Creature is a joke”. If so, you think Creature is obv-scumming right now?

Please present why Creature is scum (via meta) in a summary paragraph so that we can send him to hell.

[the worst]

D E A L

ok firstly where i disagree with your assessment

- his spam will always outweigh his content

i probably don't agree with this but maybe it's because i enjoy jamming with town!creature. he gives off a "living in the thread" vibe and does have throwaway posts which are probably not necessary but they are by far outweighted by lucid, transparent thoughts (refer his title for this reason )

- he’ll never LAMIST/try to convey super-Townie

concur

- he’ll project that he’s not bothered about being s/read
- antagonise players s/reading him

1) concur
2) concur to a point, i think he antagonises players who are scumreading him to the point of producing content but not to the point of ridicule as town. him ridiculing scumreads on him without engaging with them is scum indicative every time.

- not explain every one of his votes in great detail

agree but within thread context his trajectory is usually pretty clear, and to that end:

- his read trajectory won’t be explicit and supported

disagree; his reads may not always be perfect and he does read very whimsically, but I think his trajectory as town is usually pretty clear.

creature is infamous from the old days for freezing up and zero posting / replacing out as scum. his scumgame has developped a lot (refer Heroes Wanted) but he is not a strong force. he struggles with posting regularly, sorting players, displaying faked nuanced reads and expressing questions in a tangible fashion. as scum he also struggles with answering simple questions and providing reads when asked under pressure. as town he is very comfortable with his living ITT thing but he's also very rarely unable to handle real time interactions. he does regularly talk about game-related stuff, sure he often doesn't have highly nuanced reads but his reads are at least SOMEWHAT reasoned and usually better than level-0 town, and he is very capable of asking questions and engaging with players. he is also capable of at least pretending to pressure players as town. current scum!Creature meta is basically teasing players with what he thinks is a semblance of his towngame, but in reality I actually think it's easy to sort. Just not as easy as it used to be.

Appendix I: things i wish i townread
long name: a generous showing of his entire game related ISO and why it is obvscum bullshit

Spoiler: 9 posts of a 98 post iso

Mafia Role PM

You are a

Goon

(aligned with the town).

Your teammates are: […]
You can talk to them at any time on the mafia chat. [Link]

Each phase you may vote a player in order to send them to Heaven or Hell.

You win when majority of the Mafia is sent to Heaven.
You lose when majority of the Mafia is sent to Hell.

[link] to the game thread.

[/spoiler snipped]

btw

@manatee

, just noticed that you put "aligned with the

town

" in the example mafia role-card

lmao

you can be town

this is unexplained shit but for the sake of the exercise let's pretend it's a real read

{lab}
{null}

What if the team is {Lab, Creature, TW}?

-Kor (to both)

You're probably only right on TW.

i'm someone who has correctly nailed him as scum more than once and who he works well with as town
i had almost zero posted

there is absolutely no chance he's itt lolscumreading me this early and doing nothing about it. but let's pretend he is.

{lab}
{null}
{tw}

(I have good feels so far: not in terms of current tangible reads, but I think nearly everyone who’s been posting will be easier to sort down the line.

Well except for Carmen’s single post

).

Which I read town for some reason

ok then,,,???

{lab, carmen}
{null}
{tw}

Me same level as creature?

Yeah, you're probably below

why when how what who what how when
{lab, carmen}
{null}
{tw, keyser???}

Also if I was scum I'd be more willing to give townreads. I'm rn struggling to get decent reads.

My first thought is I caught scum!tw from Presidents but my second thought is that I could maybe come around
Oh and creature, talk to me more on that slot @tw

He did enough for me to hesitate on

ooook

{lab, carmen}
{tw?}
{null}
{keyser?}

Join us on Keyser?

What? Why?

{lab, carmen}
{tw?}
{null}
{keyser?}


this is a viable wagon option which i've been pushing as a viable wagon option for ages
creature has implied he doesn't townread you and has a free vote

his hesitation is never town indicative, is scum indicative and is very very slightly partner indicative

because he rolled scum but not with you?

I think you indicated having a scumread on him too earlier

Him saying he didn't roll scum with you.

Yeah.

{lab, carmen}
{tw?}
{null}
{keyser?}

still not voting

as a caveat he spent this entire conversation avoiding engaging with me about any reads or the current state of the game

Appendix II: scum indicators
posts spent applying incorrect self-meta, ridiculing others' scumreads without engagement, explicitly squirming and avoiding producing content, including posts in response to being actively pressed to produce content and displaying a wish for real time interactions while actively squirming in real time interactions

i will not be commenting on these because the appendix name makes my commentary fairly obvious

Spoiler: 35 posts of 98 post iso

Also, where the hell is Creature? I just realized that he's in the game trying to see who we haven't heard from.
If Creature keeps up this activity, I think its very safe to assume that he is scum.

-Kor

You've been in that game where I've been humilatingly called low-threat.

also I don't zeropost intentionally for too long as scum

That's weird, I've just been handed a note:

"I WILL BE LURKING FOR THE REST OF DAY 1. F**K META!"

- C R E A T U R E

is it a joke, or what? I don't get it

Sorry my bad joke - I was amused by the

'if Creature lurks he's scum'

post

Town!me could easily say that.

Sometimes I have a good reason to lurk

oh fun, I didn't know I was interacting with an alt
I probably will never guess who you are because I always guess alts wrong, so enjoy knowing me while I don't know you!

It wasn't obvious it was an alt?

I'm gonna aim for the long game.

Find one scum per hell phase
One town per heaven phase

Also I'd probably rave a lot during RVS like I did when I entered this thread.

Goons aligned with the town seems funny. I wouldn't notice it myself though.

Also if I was scum I'd be more willing to give townreads. I'm rn struggling to get decent reads.

actually
VOTE: Creature

lynch this today for 11/10 guaranteed scumflip

Oh cool, you've become sheepsaysmeep 2.0

if Lab/Keyser are town they can prove it

So can I

tbh I'm more ready to send players to heaven than scum to hell.

we actually just hydra'd in a game, maybe i've learned more from him than i realised?

Learned to misread me like three games a row from him?

do it I dare you!

Are they doing it now?

tbh if I did it rn it simply wouldn't be natural

In short:

most likely: SvS
second most likely: town!labby / scum!Keyser
then: scum!labby / town!keyser
probably never: TvT

You'll be a great scientist.

His saying that he doesn't do this or that as scum when its stuff he's doing it looks extremely scummy.

Never heard of this scumtell.

Like, do you expect scum to go "hey i don't post as scum" "i am posting, thus is am town"?

Give me one flipped scum then

This game seems filled with players that are a pain to read.

Join us on Keyser?

What? Why?

I think you indicated having a scumread on him too earlier

Him saying he didn't roll scum with you.

Yeah.

Creature man why can't you just bus like a normal cheeky scumfuck? You're making this too obvious

idk though, I have about 37,5% to be right and I'm not sure this is worth the risk.

Like, do you expect scum to go "hey i don't post as scum" "i am posting, thus is am town"?

Exactly.

Oh, so you used to play mafia where scum automatically make themselves the most distinct possible from textbook (meh I forgot what was the term) townplay?

Oh yeah, that game where I was afraid to post anything, had to come up with something to satisfy town (including returning to page 1 and pretending to be "catching up") and faking complete ignorance about the setup (hence why I didn't talk about it even when the Math thing was obviously scum).

It's like normal for me to have a low content:spam ratio.

Specially in a game with a low number of players and even lower number of readable players and even lower number of interesting posts to comment on.

I feel like I need to act edgy to get something out of this.

yeah but normally your ISO feels like you give a fuck about solving the game

I usually value realtime interactions first.

I don't feel like calling someone town or scum when it's basically gun-to-my-head.

I don't feel like calling someone town or scum when it's basically gun-to-my-head.

If you feel like you're too heavily under pressure here step back. Neither me nor DrJ are getting anything from talking in circles with you. Go back and solve this sucker and give us something wild.

Nah, I want to see who will hop into this thread.

yeah but normally your ISO feels like you give a fuck about solving the game

I usually value realtime interactions first.

Why are these real time interactions so wolfy then?

because you're too impatient and want my reads immediatelly.

ok so you want real time interactions but won't use the real-time interactions to solve rather than spamming incorrect self-defence meta which has been countered ane you've ignored but also won't eject yourself from the conversation to take a back seat and some independent solving because you want real time interactions with.... someone else? who's on your mind?

Man, I realtime interact the way I want.

Oh, I'll miss my hyperposting times.

Can you See the difference between that game and this game?

It's an old game, but whatever.

the rest is fluffing which i'm happy enough to call NAI but i think in reality is probably faintly scum scented given his overall iso

want me to compare the above to the game you linked? i'm actually in absolute awe you're not even pretending to see the differences

[the worst]

ctrl+f'd the mighty question mark in his iso, for the purposes of the exercise~~

i know he's aware of the ??? tell so it's not a smoking gun but he does ??? a lot more as scum than town

I'm not gonna answer the questions, I answered before.
just no, I've had enough
sorry

and I'm not gonna answer the bullshit ones

you can listen to that instead

???

i don't even know what he's questioning here
he doesn't actually care about asking a question here

Godammit! Still haven't rolled scum with the worst

Who did you roll scum with?

fluff question but relaxed tone
for someone who freezes as scum this is also partner indicative
sorry if you're town Keyz

Felt like you were chainlinking mine and Labrat’s lynches.

I’ve seen scum do that recently (Eragon).

I was experiencing those same unsettling feelings.

Who are you talking about?

refer above

we actually just hydra'd in a game, maybe i've learned more from him than i realised?

Learned to misread me like three games a row from him?

question ridiculing my scumread of him without engaging with it
i'm incapable of reading him correctly because i'm buds with sheepsaysmeep
to quote scum!Creature, ???

do it I dare you!

Are they doing it now?

deflection to me asking him to solve/be town if he's town is scum indicative

For the posts about the role pm

???

??? tell lmao
sorry i can't help myself
still, i don't know what he's asking and i don't think he cares about what he's asking

Like, do you expect scum to go "hey i don't post as scum" "i am posting, thus is am town"?

ridiculing scumread on him
tbf this is on the basis of outdated meta which is more town indicative than the rest of his iso
it's still very warm and comfortably within his scumrange

well, just look at this:
viewtopic.php?p=10545905&user_select%5B%5D=27374#p10545905

stungun used the "???" tell to mislynch me on some weird and stupid micro team mafia game. Congrats to him

cognisant of the ??? tell
doesn't really bother me much tho we're lynching him because he's scum and he'll flip red
he was a lot more towny in friemds mafia

Join us on Keyser?

What? Why?

questioning me on a scumread i've been pushing for ages which he's already suggested he's not-town/scumreading
:thonkang:

[the worst]

this is the ISO of someone who hates playing scum
genuinely enjoys playing town
is gradually getting better at scum
still freezes up a lot

lynch him and put the poor dude out of his misery, he doesn't wanna be here

[the worst]

p.s. accepting counter-cases to the above or pointers about where i may be wrong

p.p.s. also accepting criticism that i'm overcasing because i'm confirmation biased
but i'm confirmation biased because i'm RIGHT GODDAMNIT so refer p.s.

[Keyser Söze]

Ok, this is your most convincing case so far.

I will have to put my meta defence in the bin.

VOTE: Creature

[Creature]

Okay

As long you don't immediatelly lynch me

[Creature]

We're fighting meanwhile scum are hiding in the shadows

[Creature]

Like volxen who just came here to fart and left

[the worst]

Spoiler: my fingers after all the typing

pedit:

We're fighting meanwhile scum are hiding in the shadows

ok if we're all town who's scum then?

pedit 2:

Like volxen who just came here to fart and left

show me what you think was scum indicative or non-town indicative about his posting?
fyi he's my second strongest townread

[Creature]

I think I've made it pretty clear I can't do much if only a few players are posting so lurking here while the worst goes bananas is a good scum strategy

[the worst]

also there's 3 scum creature
one third of the entire list is scum
!!!!

work with me we gotta find em all

[the worst]

I think I've made it pretty clear I can't do much if only a few players are posting so lurking here while the worst goes bananas is a good scum strategy

but this is what you're doing
you're just active lurking

[Creature]

I'm on mobile

Check the post where I quote volxen with lol this post.

[Creature]

It's that farting I was referring to.

[the worst]

oh he also beetlejuices slightly more as scum fwiw
but also +1 to ridiculing scumreads on him without engaging with them

like he's very obviously sitting there watching the thread

[Creature]

also there's 3 scum creature
one third of the entire list is scum
!!!!

work with me we gotta find em all

Check the farters

[the worst]

We'll, I'm off to bed
Hoping town does the right thing and votes creature

It will flip scum, I'm 99% sure

Lcp


Also @tw what 521 page monstrosity is that?!

Yes, that's why I asked TW about it as well. I don't intend to read all 521 pages of Heroes Wanted, but I feel like reading a portion of it could hopefully help me to understand TW's meta read of Creature. That's why I would like TW to narrow down what portion of that game would be most beneficial to read.

lol this post

why is this wolfy

[Creature]

It's not Labrat nor Keyser obviously

[Creature]

I'm on some boring class rn

[Creature]

Also asking me why a post is scummy is quite funny

[the worst]

Also asking me why a post is scummy is quite funny

this is my serious face friend.
why is that post wolfy?

[Creature]

If you like applying my scum meta so much:

I say "yeh I also agree that [copypaste]" as scum a lot like volxen os doing that post

[Creature]

Can't compete your PC with mobile

[Creature]

Lefty is also a farter