Mini Normal 2030: Day 8

[Akarin]

So save me some time: Creature and Flavor fakeclaimed masons?
Who claimed first?

[Akarin]

Also who are you?

I'm your new Naomi

[Akarin]

What are the odds Crimson is getting double bussed in VC 1.11?
Townflips on Krazy, Sashadin, Flavor, Saudade
So my lynch pool for the day is:
Gamma
Almost50
Not_Mafia

That's where I'll focus reading anything.

Both scum not bussing seems possible, which makes odds even better, but seems super duper unlikely both other scum were bussing at that point.

Anything wrong with this logic I'm missing by not reading 138 pages?

[Akarin]

Scum Not_Mafia faking a guilty gets 1 mislynch, 1 scum lynch, then it's 3 town vs. 1 scum, we no lynch and it's 2v1 LYLO.
Scum Not_Mafia claiming no result as a gambit makes sense if he thinks his buddy wouldn't win LYLO.

If Not_Mafia is town, then we have Even-Cop, Odd-Vig, and Gunsmith and scum Roleblocker and daytalk.
That's a lot of cop power even with a roleblocker.

[Akarin]

Who did mafia roleblocker roleblock N1?

What the heck is this?

[Akarin]

Oh, do you mean all the outed PRs got results N1 or died and weren't fakeclaiming? Is that how it went down?

[Akarin]

VOTE: Gamma

[Akarin]

@Mister Rogers: If you are that sure of Almost50 being scum and only see Gamma as the possible teammate, are you about as happy lynching Gamma as Almost50?

[Akarin]

I have liked literally nothing that the worst or Not_Mafia have done this game, and I've had two players (Flavor Leaf and Almost50) defend each of them on account of meta reads. If that slot is town, it has not done anything to help. Neither player has participated in the effort of game solving,

Not_Mafia's first check is mostly being considered as a scum doctor check

, and Not_Mafia's second check was nullified.

[Akarin]

How is it possible to understand and misunderstand how gunsmith + mafia doctor works in the same post?

[Akarin]

Am I the only one who read Not_Mafia's gunsmith targeting of claimed masons as sarcasm?

This doesn't help sort anyone but it's driving me mildly crazy every time people take that seriously.


Also, thanks Gamma for being the only one to use my name, you're my spirit animal.

[Akarin]

If I'm playing this game as a scum Doctor on a scum team with Crimson in a game with a town gunsmith, then

when Crimson rage quits and returns making that doctor claim, I would counterclaim Doctor and bus him. Gunsmith gets a green check on me later if he decides to do it, and I get town cred for it.

Crimson's play wasn't defensible this game, so bussing him is fine there.

Why on

Earth

would gunsmith check a claimed doctor, especially if they suspect a scum doctor exists (which if one scum claimed doctor and they still wanted to check you, they must.

[Akarin]

So Almost, what do you think of massclaim? FL supported the idea for today?

So how do we feel about a massclaim, for the few who haven't claimed yet?

I'm for it.

[Akarin]

Am I the only one who read Not_Mafia's gunsmith targeting of claimed masons as sarcasm?

I didn't read it that way. We can ask him.

What if the answer is sarcastic?

[Akarin]

Naomi: Please sheep me on this.

Naomi can't sheep you anymore. Akarin is thinking about it.

I feel like counterclaiming your own buddy feels a bit gratuitous of an idea there

I was thinking it feels like an idea that might have been shot down in a scum qt on day 1 and reposted as an example.

No one was asking LE what scum LE would have done, but Almost50 had just done something like that and came across towny for doing so.

[Akarin]

It is kind of bugging me that Gamma got to L-1 and didn't say anything about it. My vote started the wagon and it was just a naked vote, you have to look back to see that it was process of elimination and that implies I believed 2 claims that people were doubting around that time.

[Akarin]

Brief flurry of votes, then they dissipated in all the setup spec confusion and no comment, feels a bit squirrely to me, but not as much as
VOTE: Light Ethos

[Akarin]

I love that we can see who is a replacement for who in the votecounts, but wow this game...

[Akarin]

can someone verify I've not made a mess of that

You've made a mess of it in that you're tying yourself in mental knots convolutedly reestablishing things that don't help. Town RB should always target their best or 2nd best scumread, and if Almost50 is town RB scum are likely to send the scum less suspected by Almost50 to perform the kill. This is true, but it doesn't help anything.

My lynchpool is Rogers, Gamma, Profii at this point, so we agree on that, but I don't think any reasoning coming from trying to predict the NK gets you there.

[Akarin]

VOTE: Gamma

[Akarin]

So who hasn't claimed yet?

If no one else is going to push for this, here's my suggested order:
1. Gamma
2. Profii
3. Mr. Rogers
4. Akarin
5. Creature

Did I miss anyone, anyone care enough to disagree?

[Akarin]

Sure. I'm a Town Two-Shot Bulletproof. I was hoping to bait out a night kill at some point with 1051, but Flavor Leaf's fake claims prevented that from happening.

Doesn't read like a claim with more left unclaimed to me, don't see any reason we should wait on it, but I guess yeah if anyone has any secret unclaimed JOAT abilities better claim them now if we're going to debate setup balance.

[Akarin]

@Mister Rogers: It's an order for claiming any remaining roles.

And I absolutely refuse to lynch NM or Almost today

[Akarin]

I'm VT

[Akarin]

Also, your vote on me was outside your pool. Can you explain why you voted outside your pool?

Felt like it. I don't see why this is a thing that even needs justifying.

It was a good starting point for getting into the game, I was never claiming both scum had to be in that pool, I think it's very likely 1 scum is. Although the argument that Crimson may have threatened replace-out due to double bussing and had to be talked down does make a certain amount of sense, so my feeling there is weaker now than it was but I still doubt a double bus that early.

[Akarin]

Something has moved Akarin on those 2 slots there- I’d be eager to hear what

Why don't you guess what could have changed my desire to lynch Almost50 and Not_Mafia between those two posts. Like seriously, how is this a mystery to you?

[Akarin]

So it looks to me like profii just kind of latched onto what LE was saying without thinking about it, and a little bit stronger.

[Akarin]

I'm not being evasive, I think you guys are refusing to read. I doubt you 2 are both scum so one of you should stop being lazy.

Like this is so jaw-droppingly obvious I'm having a bit of trouble figuring out why you'd even ask, although I'm honestly much more concerned with profii's jumping on.

[Akarin]

Ahem

I didn't get a result

there is no "Mafia" Roleblocker. I am the TOWN Roleblocker, and >I< blocked N_M last night to verify once and for all that he was indeed a GS. If he had given a result (either way) on ANYONE he would have been caught in a lie and I would have drove his lynch myself.

[Akarin]

you could have unvoted just as easily as I can... you posted 90 mins before I did so if it's a concern of yours, then why are you on there?

I want to lynch gamma so my vote stays, if A50 had L-1'd I would have had no issue hammering. I actually want N_M to come in

I just want to make sure that you know what you are doing.

kinda wanna see which one of A50 and N_M hammers.

not a problem to me if we don't out any more PRs before the NK... that can only be good in my mind

UNVOTE: - I actually really didn’t like that reaction so

[Akarin]

VOTE: No Lynch

[Akarin]

VOTE: No Lynch

Does this mean we're in danger of someone hammering it now?

[Akarin]

I'm really confused about how stretching out the day is making it harder on scum.

[Akarin]

Looking at the wagonomic forecast, I think we're in a bear lynching market.

[Akarin]

Looking at the wagonomic forecast, I think we're in a bear lynching market.

[Akarin]

I'm so funny I had to say it twice

[Akarin]

I'm here, I don't know what profii expects anyone to say, the obvious interpretation seems like what LE was thinking to me. Other things seem like a stretch without clarification from Not_Mafia. Like if it was a mod error or a deliberate lie, why not say that yesterday? And Almost50 blocked someone else on Night 1, I just checked.

Anyway, we should no lynch again, and the less said about anything other than working out the details of Not_Mafia's claim the better.

[Akarin]

Mr. Rogers needs replacement and we're stalling out waiting to hear what you meant, profii. How important is waiting on that slot? And would you expect a replacement to have anything useful to say or are we just hoping Rogers comes back?

[Akarin]

I don't understand what doc you think we can possibly have.

[Akarin]

A Traitor is considered Normal on mafiascum.net, as long as it:

• is Mafia-aligned
  
• knows the identities of all of the Mafia team
  
• identity is not known by the Mafia team, although they should know a Traitor exists
  
• cannot be recruited to join the rest of the Mafia team, and (unless Bulletproof) is killed if shot
  
• is endgamed if all other Mafia are dead
  
• gives a "guilty" result to Cops, an
  "innocent" result to Gunsmiths
  , and a "Traitor" result to Role Cops

Most likely explanation for the no kill: Rogers is scum, 3rd scum is a traitor.

[Akarin]

I'm not sure if it's worth saving Nauci time and lynching today, I think it is because I'd want to lynch the Rogers slot tomorrow too, and if I'm wrong it is game over either way. I don't know what to make of Not_Mafia or Profii's treatment of the whole thing, but I'm not sure it matters.

[Akarin]

Good luck with your eyes.

If you can weaken them down to just laser pointers, could be fun for the cat.

[Akarin]

I’d probably say a no lynch is the best course of action. Nothing has really changed since yesterday

There was a no kill during a night where one of the non-cleared players flaked. That's something.

Either way, why are we stretching the day out?

VOTE: Mister Rogers

Happy to change to no lynch if people would rather wait to roll the dice, but I don't see the point.

[Akarin]

I think waiting on N_M is as anti-town as refusing to claim. He's made it clear he isn't going to be clear.

Apathy is skyrocketing.

VOTE: No Lynch

[Akarin]

Profii, what leverage do you think you have on Not_Mafia exactly? Do you want to lynch him today?

[Akarin]

Also, in the event scum is drunk or something and I'm the kill, my reasoning on Rogers isn't inactivity, it's that there was a no kill and we shouldn't have any protective roles left. The simplest explanation for that is that scum didn't submit the kill.

THAT

is something big.

[Akarin]

So vote him then, I won't be joining you. I'd rather try to win or at least get on with it.

[Akarin]

I believe I pretty clearly stated my theory already, and no, that isn't what I think.

Rogers also makes sense being in a neighborhood with the cop, that's pretty good for scum.

Your theory is that we have a doctor who fake claimed? Or that scum for some reason decided to shoot claimed BP rather than shoot one of you/Not_Mafia?

[Akarin]

I guess LE kill makes sense if it's a Not_Mafia/Profii scumteam.

[Akarin]

LE, did you use a BP shot last night?

[Akarin]

LE and Akarin if you were forced to vote today rather than no lynch, what’s your preference

This is such a bizarre question.

I'm the one who suggested lynching, I cast a vote.

[Akarin]

I also don't think LE should answer unless we do actually decide to vote.

[Akarin]

Forever ago

[Akarin]

Who do you wanna lynch

Rogers, but I'm waiting his replacement

Why? He's already claimed having no powers other than Neighbor.

[Akarin]

Don't replace out, profii, it's frustrating but it's not like you're innocent of dragging this game out either, with the whole "that's not what he said but I'm not clarifying what I think he said" thing. It isn't

just

Not_Mafia, and if you replace out now you're only making it worse on everyone else as we have to wait for another replacement.

[Akarin]

It's been 21 days since it was a good idea to say anything productive, that's on everybody.

[Akarin]

VOTE: No Lynch

We have something to gain by deciding between Alonzo and Not_Mafia tomorrow:

if Not_Mafia is scum it's exactly the same today or tomorrow

if Not_Mafia is town gunsmith, and we lynch Alonzo correctly, scum probably don't want to kill him tonight because he's the obvious best mislynch chance, then if the game isn't over (Doctor not Traitor) we know that for sure, or Creature is last scum and we can debate specifically Creature+Alonzo vs. Not_Mafia+X

[Akarin]

How many nights and days of no killing to we have to go through for the game to be declared over? Is that a draw?

[Akarin]

unvote

[Akarin]

Can we end the night early if we unanimously PM you asking for it?

[Akarin]

I'm a double (non)voter now, wooooo!

Nauci: Does the game end in a draw if we go a certain amount of time without anyone dying? And can we vote to end the night early?

[Akarin]

Are we nolynching again?

Why don't you tell us what you want, Creature? Do you think no lynching is the right move but you're just bored or what?

[Akarin]

Creature:

We have something to gain by deciding between Alonzo and Not_Mafia tomorrow:

if Not_Mafia is scum it's exactly the same today or tomorrow

if Not_Mafia is town gunsmith, and we lynch Alonzo correctly, scum probably don't want to kill him tonight because he's the obvious best mislynch chance, then if the game isn't over (Doctor not Traitor) we know that for sure, or Creature is last scum and we can debate specifically Creature+Alonzo vs. Not_Mafia+X

VOTE: no lynch
If n m survives everyone’s been checked

We basically have to decide if we believe n m

Simples

Do you agree or not?

[Akarin]

Given that Nauci didn't respond and no one else seems worried about it
VOTE: No Lynch
Let's get this day over with

[Akarin]

Well that was the hammer, can we start Night now?

[Akarin]

So here it doesn’t apply

You don't think there's a chance scum didn't submit a kill last night?

[Akarin]

Request prod on Nauci, it's been just shy of 48 hours since we hammered No Lynch

[Akarin]

I'm not going to be able to give this the time it deserves until at least Monday, sorry.

LE's death on the 3rd night after 2 no kills proves scum were shooting LE all those nights, so it's either NM lying and/or mafia doctor.

[Akarin]

V/LA Friday/Saturday/Sunday

[Akarin]

Yeah, that and I actually have to sit down and read all the stuff around the original gunsmith claim, we should take our time with this.

[Akarin]

Bah, sorry I'm not dead. I was sick after my trip and then I was very very upset about something else and just didn't come in to say anything. I apologize for that. I don't have time to get to this game right at this moment but I promise I will start doing all the rereading I need to do tonight and a bunch tomorrow.

[Akarin]

First thought though: I never thought Alonzo would be the kill because I thought Creature was basically locked town, I need to check but I thought Profii thought the same thing, so I would have voted Profii, but scum Profii would be much more likely to kill Creature I'd think, so everything is crap and I need to do a bunch of rereading and questioning assumptions.

[Akarin]

Akarin has not picked up her prod.

Seeking replacement for Akarin. If she posts before a replacement is found, she can resume playing.

I'm here, sorry

[Akarin]

Everything has just been terrible lately, and frankly I don't have enough time tonight to cast my vote, but I foresee tomorrow being much better and I wouldn't want anyone to have to replace into this game at this point at 170 pages.

[Akarin]

Okay, let's get into this. I was giving Creature a bunch of town points for going along with the mason claim, and a bunch of scum points for not dying. I'm going to figure those cancel out and look at the rest of the game again. I don't think Alonzo's reads would have been relevant to the kill last night, didn't look like he was all

that

strongly locked in on anyone, my guess is that me and either profii/creature were thought to be more easy to manipulate by the scum player than Alonzo would have been.

[Akarin]

Okay, so if Creature had voted for Alonzo, Not_Mafia's vote was already there and profii had committed to sheeping. Scum-Creature/Town-profii would have meant Creature could have had a

very

good shot to win the game there, but he bussed Not_Mafia instead?

On the other hand, profii was very quick to unvote Not_Mafia when Creature said he wouldn't hammer that the first time.

Honestly I'm basically locked on voting profii at this point, but I'm going to do my due diligence and finish the reading I intended to do.

[Akarin]

Im sorry, I simply cant bring myself to play this game properly, I'll be replacing out.

one thing im confident in before I go is tw being town. Gl guys...

Another big thing: no way does Scumatee make this his last post when his buddy is ScumWorst

[Akarin]

Yeah, the more I read, the more confident I become
VOTE: profii

[Akarin]

Suspense is going to kill me.

I'm town, are you?

[Akarin]

[Akarin]

Possible damn it

[Akarin]

I hate whichever one of you is trolling me

[Akarin]

So it probably won't fill, but would anyone want to hydra with me and join this game? viewtopic.php?p=10484812#p10484812

[Akarin]

Crap

[Akarin]

You need to learn to actually reanalyze the game and not just go with the status quo

Um, excuse me, I discarded that and gave it absolutely no weight on the final day. I reread and reevaluated a ton of stuff, where do you get off telling me I was just going with the status quo?

And for the record, if I were in this exact situation again, I'd still vote profii (no offense profii). Creature could have won on Day 7 and chose not to.

[Akarin]

Like we went over the logic of that read back on Day 4 or something, and the only thing I said about it today was that I was going to stop giving it any weight, I don't understand why I'm getting crap for that.

[Akarin]

minus the sass

Why would you do this?

[Akarin]

Profii: What was I supposed to question you about? From where I'm sitting, Creature could have won on the previous day and chose not to. I thought about voting then but decided to go through the rest of both of your ISOs and look at a few key other events and found nothing for you that made me think OBVTOWN! and nothing on Creature that made me think OBVSUCM! so that's when I voted.

You weren't going to convince me of anything at that point, so I saw no point in waiting for you.

I think if you'd made a case on creature (or me) in a way that looks especially towny it would have made me hesitate there, but you had the time and didn't, seemed like you had pretty much checked out of caring. I saw no reason to drag it out.

[Akarin]

Also, it's crazy how neither of your slots reacted to the initial gunsmith claim at all until way

way

after the fact.

[Akarin]

Reading the mod thread I just want to give Day 1 Nauci a hug.

[Akarin]

I still haven't actually read every post in the game, although I've gone over some sections a bunch of times