Open 738: Purgatory | LA FIN

[Keyser Söze]

As a side note this is probably one of my last games on MS that i’ll Join, but I will take PbR(play by request) so is there an MS discord that I could join?

repeating

don't make me post sad cat pictures

Ask in the chat lobby or mafia discussion thread x

[Eragon]

So @Mr. Rat,

are you townreading TW? if yes, do you completely hold by Tw/KEyser TvS?
and if yes, can you at least summarize parts of your case so i can understand?
im having a lot of doubts there.

but i am also doubting keyser, i thought he was pretty scummy when i joined, and for D1, and then towards now i've been liking him(that is, you, keyser) and now your case brings up other possiblities.

i think im confident enough calling TW/Keyser TvS, never SvS, and if they are both TvT i am fucking up somewhere, so i think thats good for me.

i definitely get your scumread on keyser, but why do you townread TW so much?

[Eragon]

WhAt DoEs BlUe MeAn?

Doesn't look like green does it...?

yes...


exactly...

thats why im asking

[Keyser Söze]

WhAt DoEs BlUe MeAn?

Doesn't look like green does it...?

yes...


exactly...

thats why im asking

‘But yeah, let’s send him to heaven’




I sense a disturbance in the Force.

[Keyser Söze]

THAT TRAGI-COMEDIC MOMENT WHEN YOUR FAKE READS CONTRADICT THE SCUM AGENDA

[Keyser Söze]

Chapter 1: the read that best reveals town!Eragon

We have to back to the beginning.

i do have a gut TR on you through skim, but its nothing strong and i know i shouldn't rush a read on any of you lmao, and i dont have time to dive rn

Here we see Eragon express a gentle tentative take on players he knows. No chainsaw, no extreme read and no dramatic buddy attempt. Eragon is here to scumhunt and not scumgambit.

Then we have Eragon's town-case on Creature. It demonstrates all the tells of a townie naturally coming to a read:
- the look for tonal / naturalness over content (I always believe scum just can't help but reach for the low hanging fruit, and bite on the playstyle that just doesn't fit in to town site-meta. I have been a victim of this a lot on mafiascum.)
- expresses just enough town paranoia on Creature bestowing a town read on their slot's single RVS post, and demonstrates towny affection: to be fond of irrational posts).
- Eragon is self reflective on the strength of their own read and observation
- identifies with Creature's position of being natural and not forcing out reads (see Eragon is looking past Creature's unconventional behaviour and seeing town motivation. THAT is the balance and discernment you need to judge a player like Creature who will never power-town.)
- Eragon consistently keeps measuring up town motivation vs scum motivation
- Eragon correctly identifies Creature's fluff as NAI.
- Eragon realises Creature is being consistent.
- Eragon exercising inner turmoil: Eragon can understand Creature's frustration but not his conclusion, here is Eragon reaching out hoping to understand Creature's perspective. Thus, Eragon accepts even though Creature's actions cannot be explained from their perspective ('the bad stuff' at the time), this does not overpower the genuine town pings he has felt ('the good stuff', as explanations can always be added later). Eragon had every chance to jump ship here, but this natural read feels real.
- Eragon didn't give into the propaganda saying Creature was lurking. Eragon correctly identified he was actually one of the highest posters.
- Eragon isn't nose-diving into a strong town read or a strong scum read, they are exploring each side of the coin.

This is Eragon making a step-by-step solve of Creature's alignment. It doesn't feel like he's started with a read first and worked backwards. This natural flow of the ISO dive doesn't feel agenda-driven: Creature HAS NOT presented a

'Creature is town, and those scum reading him are scum'

case. Eragon has looked underneath the rocks, beneath the sea, through the vines and long grass. Eragon has scrutinised both sides of Creature to come to his read. Eragon's whole approach on Creature

drips with town

.

[

We will return to how Eragon's town case on Creature was discredited on D1 tomorrow

].

'Chapter 2: Eragon is genuinely weirded out by me', follows....

[Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde]

No please vote Dr. J, I want to stay to endgame.

No please vote Dr. J, I want to stay to endgame.

No please vote Dr. J, I want to stay to endgame.

No please vote Dr. J, I want to stay to endgame.

No please vote Dr. J, I want to stay to endgame.

VOTE: volxen

VOTE: volxen
Sick as a dog now, I'll be aroundish but kind of feverish and trying to sleep.

VOTE: volx

voting DrJ would be a total waste of reads imo. I really do like volx's latest content and there's no reason to get rid of lock-townies (DrJ) during the first heaven phase imo.
Satisfied with this lynch for today, prob not gonna switch unless someone manages to make me seriously paranoid that volx is scum

the sheeping on volx is indeed concerning

[Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde]

its like scum doesn't want me in heaven
but then I see my 2 major trs don't want me in heaven

[Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde]

(ebwop I kind of understand tws reasoning for voting volx over me)
labrat feels more like a sheep of tw

[Irrelephant11]

starting to catch up

Did you know?

Manatee's nipples are loacted in their armpits

Votecount 2.04

volxen (3) - Irrelephant, Eragon, the worst
Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde (2) - Keyser Söze, volxen
Keyser (2) - Ausuka, Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde
Not Voting - LabRat0

Time till end of heaven phase 1: (expired on 2018-11-22 15:30:00)

volxen, Drj, or Keyser - want to give me a short version of how we got here so I can jump into real time while catching up?

[Keyser Söze]

TLDR: unvote Volxen and present your read on Dr J.

[Keyser Söze]

its like scum doesn't want me in heaven
but then I see my 2 major trs don't want me in heaven

Search your feelings.

You know why that is.




I can only show you the door,
you’re the one who has to walk through it.

[Irrelephant11]

TLDR: unvote Volxen and present your read on Dr J.

why
I'll present reads on everyone after catching up
thought they were town D1 but I've barely played this phase so... no clue really

[Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde]

its like scum doesn't want me in heaven
but then I see my 2 major trs don't want me in heaven

Search your feelings.

You know why that is.




I can only show you the door,
you’re the one who has to walk through it.

thats really cryptic and wierd

[Keyser Söze]

Thanks

[Ausuka]

hi, sorry for disappearing for a bit. i've not really been feeling that well.

VOTE: Jekyll

i thought volxen's posts recently were towny and i don't scumread him anymore but he doesn't want heaven and neither does keyser so...

keyser, are you totally sure about this? i don't see anything exactly wrong with following that scumteam for now since the players you scumread are pretty likely to be scum but it's very difficult to nail the exact scumteam right now and I think you should be somewhat open to the possibility that you've gone wrong somewhere in the future; it might not be a good idea to base your decisions on your current theory throughout this entire game.

[Keyser Söze]

Someone would need to prove to me scum in (Ausuka, Eragon, Dr J, Volxen).

[Keyser Söze]

I do want to take 1 lynch at a time... one case at a time...

[volxen]

TLDR: unvote Volxen and present your read on Dr J.

why
I'll present reads on everyone after catching up
thought they were town D1 but I've barely played this phase so... no clue really

We are sending Dr. J to Heaven today.

[Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde]

I have to abandon catchup from mid-day1, and start at d2 (or somewhere similar). I’ve read it, and kinda get it.
I just can’t mobile catchup 50+ pages after being V/LA for personal, then having surgery/procedure, then getting sick.

-Kor

[Irrelephant11]

wow so here's a fun story everyone
I had a whole bunch of quotes and a long post, I was halfway to catching up
and then my browser crashed
and then my internet wouldn't work for a couple hours
and I have lost like a lot of WIM for this game day at this point, it was nearly an overwhelming catchup before all this happened

probably not like a huge deal as long as I can catch up by next game phase, since I'm not in contention for getting sent to Heaven anyway (though anyone scumreading me is probably just being lazy about forming scumreads and putting the absent townie in the bottom of the PoE)
but you'll get gamesolve-y irrelephant some other time, I'm too annoyed rn

[LabRat01]

Do you remember Keyser writing anything about creature being town other than his early-game meta defense (which got discarded later on because of TW’s meta-case)?
No?
Neither do I tbh

If he really was TRing creature, why didn’t he try to do anything about it before creat got lynched?
Even if his read wasn’t strong, not saying anything feels like a shitty way to save his own ass

You expected me to present a stronger defence on Creature? What a weird perspective.

I believe the strength of my defence of Creature was reflective on the strength of my town read of Creature (neither very strong nor weak):- pointed to previous town meta of Creature
- point to the fact Creature doesn't post anything outright townie as town to Creature
- presented a collection of town meta tells for Creature
- bullied onto Creature wagon after TW's case
- me recommending to Creature to only serious post now as I could see him becoming the #1 lynch candidate in his current playstyle
- I didn't like his wagon development/formation
- I liked Eragon's town case on Creature (but guess who bullied Eragon off it...)
- share a possible perspective of if Creature is scum, but I confirm my resolve: Creature is town.
- I felt like his brother, in the same boat as Creature on D1: miss-read, playstyle misunderstood, and everyone fixed on us two being scum.
- I don't understand the theory that Creature was scum trying to pocket me.
- Still expressing that I like Creature (but wouldn't be shocked if they flipped either alignment).
- was tempted to join Creature in our very own town-block
- Creature was being butchered in the thread and his wagon was fast growing so I thought he needed to get back to thread to defend himself ASAP.
- still hated how me and Creature were the two likely lynches for D1

First off, you’re bending the facts to fit your story.
You said a few times during the game that you “discarded” your meta read on Creature because of TW’s arguments about his scum meta
and right now we were talking about your read on Creature

at the end of hell 1

. So you talking about something you didn’t believe in anymore, may look good on you, but is worthless imo.

And I find it off how you said you presented arguments for “Creat being townie”, when the point of your meta read on him was:

I would usually s/read other players for being guilty for some of these, but Creature does these as town.

which kinda felt like you were saying that he’s “unreadable”, rather than “townie”.
tbh if that was a TR, it makes the read feel more TMI, but w/e…

I did miss a lot of the later posts, though, so sorry for that. They kind of got lost among all of the other, stronger pushes. :/
The way I remembered the game, except for me, no one seriously tried switching wagons from Creat to anyone else. I kind of expected you to be active about protecting someone you think might be town, especially since I didn’t even remember you saying anything about creat being townie after you discarded your meta read on them, but I guess you do have a point here. Sorry for that

VOTE: Ausuka

PoE is a good place to vote right now.

And as I said before, I got really bad vibes from the way Keyser changed his votes later on. He ignored all scum-cases made against creature and everything else AI, which happened during the day just for the sake of “lynching for PoE”.

That makes absolutely no sense from town PoV.

I change my vote ALOT, for info, to push the players I'm not town reading and for reaction tests. It's not even alignment indicative.
I did not "ignore" all the scum cases on Creature. I got my eyes tore out and balls ripped off and I sheeped TW's case. However, I felt shit and duly unvoted.

All the other cases/narrow focus on Creature/me was bullshit/very wrong. Only I and Creature could see this though.

Voting through PoE on D1 (with 3 scum versus 6 town) is recommended anyway IMO. If you don't have strong scum reads, subtract the players you have reason not to lynch (I had you, Ausuka and Eragon in my PoE list). Plus, what's to say Ausuka and Eragon weren't scum and my reads were 100% on D1. There was nothing wrong with my late vote on Ausuka and Eragon - both players have only become town reads today.

That’s exactly what I thought was very likely to come from scum. I haven’t played with you before, but I have no doubt that you have way enough experience to know how to make pushes on the players you want to lynch.
It’s obvious that no one will follow you if you just say to “lynch someone for PoE” without any additional information. You doing that instead of pushing a real read, commenting on the situation, or w/e else, made me feel like you didn’t actually care whatever if your push got through or not. And the jokes in the next posts only worsened my feelings towards that.

VOTE: Eragon

There’s gotta be scum in the Watchmen :giggle:

Imagine if it’s The Watchman Wanted vs Mafia :cool:

The next posts, with the vote explained by a joke

His attitude there felt awful to me. It felt as if he didn’t actually care what happens to the wagon on creature or to his new pushes, and was just shitting around, waiting for stuff to happen
This attitude never comes from town imo

Town!he should at least care about what people say about Asuka/eragon/creature. Like, care to progress the game or sth
His votes and the lack of any kind explanation or serious attitude made me feel that he wasn't sincere about trying to distract the lynch from creature and didn't honestly want that to happen

Yes, I was de-motivated and low on WIM. There wasn't much to show about 'how-Ausuka-was-scum' or 'Eragon-was-scum'- as they were PoE. I was being universally scum read. Creature was about to die. Me using humour to try bring some light and joy to my experience this game is not scummy.

That’s actually fair.

The votes felt like they were made for the purpose of
a) looking more townie after creature’s lynch
or
b) just for the sake of being off the wagon so that the wagon is smaller and people feel free to place their votes there so that if anything shitty happens later, he’s still able to re-vote and save his own ass

OR W/E, I don’t really care about the reason tbh,

that was a vote that NEVER comes from town imo

That just makes no damn sense

"looking more townie after creature’s lynch" - untrue. Not even Eragon who presented the base town case for town!Creature isn't getting the towncred they deserve today.

I’m not going to use that as an argument, but actually, the fact that you said “he should be getting TRs from TRing creat” already makes it a valid scum motivation.
But that’s more of a fun fact than anything

HERE'S THE BOTTOM LINE:

Why couldn't I just be a townie who simply didn't believe Creature was scum and wanted to vote in my D1 PoE? I knew something was up this game, and now I know why... scum were in charge D1 - but a few players have woke up now. You keep presenting this weird tangent universe where I was very sure of my town reads and very sure of my scum reads on D1, which you think I should have pushed hard with. That was obviously not the case. You are miss-repping the intensity of my town and scum reads.

Thus, I find your disbelief and shock to be fake

,

and I believe it is strongly scum-indicative

.

:!:

That’s wrong. I did assume your read on creat was rather weak when analyzing the push.
I did think that being passive, when someone you have a TR on is getting lynched, was scummy, but tbf you were the biggest counterwagon , so I didn’t really put it on par with my other arguments.
Trying to save yourself is more of a scum than town action, but tbh town may to do that as well when stressed, so w/e.

What I SR the most was the lack of effort and the passive attitude towards the push while trying to CFD 1-2 hour before EoD. It felt weird to me that you’d bother trying to change the lynch when you didn’t bother to defend creat against his attackers or explain why is your push a better lynch.
If you didn’t have strong enough reads to either defend creature or push your wagon and there were a lot other players who had much better reads than you, trying to change the wagon, was sth that felt so incredibly detrimental and REALLY unlikely for a townie to do.

I’m still not a great fan of the CFD, but it does make more sense to me rn, so thx.

[LabRat01]

No please vote Dr. J, I want to stay to endgame.

No please vote Dr. J, I want to stay to endgame.

No please vote Dr. J, I want to stay to endgame.

No please vote Dr. J, I want to stay to endgame.

No please vote Dr. J, I want to stay to endgame.

VOTE: volxen

VOTE: volxen
Sick as a dog now, I'll be aroundish but kind of feverish and trying to sleep.

VOTE: volx

voting DrJ would be a total waste of reads imo. I really do like volx's latest content and there's no reason to get rid of lock-townies (DrJ) during the first heaven phase imo.
Satisfied with this lynch for today, prob not gonna switch unless someone manages to make me seriously paranoid that volx is scum

this is just pure shade
I was the only one who voted after Volx said he doesn’t want to go to heaven and even if I didn’t, you’re strongly TRing Volx, so how does that even matter?

[LabRat01]

Meaning I don't think Irrelephant is the sole scum on his wagon.

I'm not ruling out the possibility of scum!Irrelephant, but if he is scum then there were most likely multiple scum on Creature's wagon.

Can you elaborate on your read on irre?

do you not think irrel is scum?

I asked the question, because I don’t understand the point he was trying to make

And yeah, I do have a SR on him rn. Not anything amazing, but there’ll still be time to polish that imo

[LabRat01]

Dr J

Keyser

Volxen

Eragon
Ausuka

Irrelephant

TW

LabRat

fixed

WhAt DoEs BlUe MeAn?

Green

- hard town unless I’m terribly wrong with my reads

Blue

- prob town, but not as strong as the green one

Purplish

- at least one of them should be scum. Rn leaning more on Ausuka, but I don’t really have a strong read there

Orange

- Scum lean

Red

- Scum