Large Normal 216 - Endgame

[xx2008]

Although I haven't read through max's posts that deeply, they appear pretty towny on the surface level, for those of you who were asking about my thoughts on him. I plan on re-reading them.

[Flavor Leaf]

Roleblocker, maybe Tracker/rolecop, a goon, and then some throwaway role is balanced, I’d say. More PR’s doesn’t mean stronger town.

[xx2008]

Maybe that's correct, but I still don't think there are two JOATS. It's like having two queens on a chessboard.

[AP]

Maybe that's correct, but I still don't think there are two JOATS. It's like having two queens on a chessboard.

You know you could theoretically have up to EIGHTEEN queens on a chessboard (9 for each side)? Granted, that never happened and probably never will, but 2 queens on the same side is kinda not unheard if.

[Completly Trustworthy]

I have a question AP, do you think that them having different abilities means anything? I've never been in a game with multiple town JOAT's before, so I'm wondering if them having the same abilities would make sense or if one of the JOAT claims could be more scummy due to their 1-shot abilities being more useful for scum than town. I believe that disloyal vig sounds somewhat towny for instance because mafia vigs are rare.

[Almost50]

Well, I can only think of one game I've been in with multiple JOATs, but that was a 42 player role madness.

As far as this game goes I think putting 2 JOATs of the same abilities would've been overly strange. Like, 2 Cop checks? Granted they'd be 1-shot each but then multitasking means they both could use the same abilities on N1.. all of them.

So, I probably can see 2 JOATs of different abilities over 2 JOATs of the same abilities.

[AP]

Well, I can only think of one game I've been in with multiple JOATs, but that was a 42 player role madness.

As far as this game goes I think putting 2 JOATs of the same abilities would've been overly strange. Like, 2 Cop checks? Granted they'd be 1-shot each but then multitasking means they both could use the same abilities on N1.. all of them.

So, I probably can see 2 JOATs of different abilities over 2 JOATs of the same abilities.

[xx2008]

I have three abilities, a disloyal vig, a cop check which I'll be using, and an ability I'd rather not specify yet if it can be helped.

I am a multitasking JOAT.

I jailkept FL, voyeured Nos, tracked maxous, and motion detected AP.
Nos was because he was one of my earliest townreads in here & other people were tring him, so I thought scum might visit him somehow.
Max because FL dubbed him scum so I trusted in that.
AP - I don't think I need to further explain why I detected him of all the players lol.

These two JOATS have different abilities. I think different abilities give a greater advantage than similar one-shot abilities, because it gives town a wider range of actions to choose from.
One of the JOATS is a multitasking one, which is a lot of power.
@JOATS, are your abilities one-shot?
Also lol A50 posted on accident again.

[Performer]

We don't get a result from Gamma unless he's night killed.

We use this to our advantage.

It is simple, though.

Gamma can protect someone, but if he is killed, it’ll kill who he’s Protecting along with him. He can’t be tracked or roleblocked.

And it only works on scum because disloyal

This makes me further worried that this is a multiball game, if GE can protect only scum ... then if someone shoots his target or him, then they both die. Makes me worried it's multiball.

Games filled with a WIFOM inducing roles are great. Requires actual analysis on play.

I agree, it typically gets people more involved itt ("in the thread" for those who don't know).
--------
@AP I'm with RCE's suggestion that rbing a tpr isn't the way to go.

[Performer]

This makes me further worried that this is a multiball game, if GE can protect only scum ... then if someone shoots his target or him, then they both die. Makes me worried it's multiball.

Actually, then doesn't that mean if he babysits RCE and they're both town, then....only one dies? Hmm that's actually quite helpful too.

[Performer]

I have a question AP, do you think that them having different abilities means anything? I've never been in a game with multiple town JOAT's before, so I'm wondering if them having the same abilities would make sense or if one of the JOAT claims could be more scummy due to their 1-shot abilities being more useful for scum than town. I believe that disloyal vig sounds somewhat towny for instance because mafia vigs are rare.

In terms of multiple JOATs, this is the 1st time I've ever seen it in a normal game, or ANY game on or offsite.....which is also why I said this setup is super creative.

Regrading mafia vigs, I played in a 14-player game with 2 scum vigilantes. Iirc shortly after, mafia vigilantes were declared non-normal . So, scum vigilantes are not used in normal games.

[Performer]

Vigilantes are considered Normal on mafiascum.net if their kill flavour is indistinguishable from other factions'. As of 9 November 2015, they must also be town aligned.

The normal guidelines are followed strictly.

[Performer]

CT and xx (if they both end up being town) remind me of my beginning days...still new in games as rookie town and I thought I knew more than I actually did, which was not as much as I thought I knew. I wish people would have elaborated more to help out in those early games... lol. You guys are lucky.

[Performer]

Maybe that's correct, but I still don't think there are two JOATS. It's like having two queens on a chessboard.

It's perfectly possible. After seeing 2 scum vigs, a mason tracker and a mason vig, a pair of masons with a jailkeeper with an odd-night cop with an ascetic townie, and even more funky setups in my time with the NRG....it's definitely possible in terms of the 2 joats alone.

But that's the thing, we have to not just go off of what's possible in terms of setup spec, and we need to work with multiple factors to scumhunt.

[Performer]

@JOATS, are your abilities one-shot?

I don't like this question.

[Performer]

@xx & ct: one of the thing I found out the hard way is that if we try to outguess the moderator, it's difficult.

All I know is what I can base from my experience. For instance, 2 scum vs 12 town, 3 scum vs 5 prs, 3 scum vs 6 prs, 4 scum vs 5-8 prs, 3 scum vs 3 or 4 prs, and so on. It really depends on what sort of power scum teams have too.
There was a large normal , NY 213 (a good read), that had something like mafia rolecop, backup mafia rolecop, universal backup, and a goon iirc....vs vts, town friendly neighbor, town vengeful neighbor, town IC, 2 masons. That was 4 scum vs 5 prs.

Generally if scum have strong roles, there is a town pr per scum role or even 2 town prs per scum role....just the way setups have been balanced via the NRG in normal games.

[Nosferatu]

add Nos actually

u added that entirely cause of hammer

thats feels over reals my guy

I would appreciate it if we all didn't power-lynch anyone for the next few hours.

hate to break it to ya

yeah 'oops i hammered on catchup'

sure

because as a slot that was doing ok in being tr d1 i would then active lurk the fuck out of d2

randomly switch my vote

and then lolhammer and pretend it was cause i was catching up

feels over reals my dude, quicker you realise it the better you'll feel o/

[RCEnigma]

add Nos actually

u added that entirely cause of hammer

thats feels over reals my guy

I would appreciate it if we all didn't power-lynch anyone for the next few hours.

hate to break it to ya

yeah 'oops i hammered on catchup'

sure

because as a slot that was doing ok in being tr d1 i would then active lurk the fuck out of d2

randomly switch my vote

and then lolhammer and pretend it was cause i was catching up

feels over reals my dude, quicker you realise it the better you'll feel o/

That's a pretty good Nos play recap.

[Garmr]

I propose I should target RCE. RCE targets Garmr/Saudade. Gamma is also on RCE. Performer does what he wants.

The reason I want Garmer/Saudade checked is their votes on profii suck. I'm not buying Saudade playing the sheep all the time, and Garmr basically sneaked into the wagon out of nowhere.

But maybe I should think more about it to make use of Performer's abilities?

P.S. Many of you know why I have been a bit quiet today, but for those who don't, I've been busy preparing for the launch of my new game, setting up PTs (including 3 hydra slots), sending out Role PMs, verifying links in Role PMs for the umpteenth time, etc.

Yeah no fuck off my case on profii was the best one. I been pushing Profii all day.

[Garmr]

i think I'm interested in this game again.

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma please confirm. Your role, you target someone and if you die: town lives or scum dies. That is your only ability, no? The rest are just modifiers.

Pretty much.

[RCEnigma]

The more I read Garmrs iso the bigger that wolf avatar gets........requires further testing

[Garmr]

The more I read Garmrs iso the bigger that wolf avatar gets........requires further testing

It's a scary thing.

[RCEnigma]

Indeed, thoughts? Now that it's interesting and you guys lynched town?

[Garmr]

Indeed, thoughts? Now that it's interesting and you guys lynched town?

I don't think we lynched town. What made it interesting was ap accusation that I jumped on with no reasoning to the profi wagon and no one questioned it.