Open 738: Scumchat

[Irrelephant11]

Oh gosh welcome guys

Not much changes from R2R to here, except players are generally a lot more unpredictable/familiar with each other
This one is gonna be a challenge for me, because two of these players know me really well (tw & Keyser)

[Irrelephant11]

yeah I think we should focus on looking towny more than finding a specific mislynch
or at least that'll be my play I think
We *can* win by avoiding ever getting lynched (to either hell or heaven) and just putting someone with bad reads in heaven
There's lots of ways to play this

[Irrelephant11]

piece of advice to us all: try to play like you don't feel pressure to play well
town wins don't rely on each vt being perfect, so we should come across somewhat casual sometimes (i.e. no need to apologize for lack of activity, the game isn't on your shoulders, you're just a single townie, and sometimes it's okay to post things like "eh I still feel how I did before")
these casual moments are things scum are usually missing

[Irrelephant11]

also feel free to completely change your mind on a slot at a moment's notice

[Irrelephant11]

yeah probably

lefty if you're around you should maybe come to tw's defense
or maybe not I can't decide, whichever feels right

[Irrelephant11]

Lefty feel free to scumread Keyser for tonal things, like word choice
Townies tunnel on town!Keyser all the time so it might get him to townread you
Just make sure you follow through with your vote if/when you do

[Irrelephant11]

Correct

[Irrelephant11]

so I didn't want to influence my catch up too much with a plan
I don't think labrat is as easily mislynchable
In fact anyone who's getting a ton of attention rn might be hard to lynch in the end just by the way momentum swings on people over time
We just have to make sure the roulette wheel stops at a time we're happy with

propping up tw as town leader who is townreading all three of us seems like a good thing for the moment, so I am

[Irrelephant11]

I definitely think it might be! Town don’t usually think “all three scum on wagon” so we could maybe use that to our advantage

[Irrelephant11]

welcome ausuka! I won't prep you for the thread like I want to because that might make you look too informed
But it's nice to have you!
I think our strategy right now is just dividing town from town, not sure yet who we'll be lynching

[Irrelephant11]

Love that you're scumreading tw, ausuka
If you need help coming up with a case lmk
Probably don't try to push his lynch this game day but I think it's better to send volxen to heaven than him so it'd be nice to have his alignment a little bit in question

[Irrelephant11]

also keep up the good work, drj & mrh! you're pretty widely townread and for good reason

[Irrelephant11]

I'm like 99.99% certain that there is at least one scum among {Keyser, Creature, Eragon}. I don't see a world where they are all town.

this is who I would like to send to heaven

[Irrelephant11]

Ausuka I think your entrance is pretty strong so far, I'd recommend just posting more to get that postcount up

strategy thoughts:

winning by sending two scum to heaven sounds hard, especially given each townie will have different thoughts on what kind of player should go to heaven: the towniest vs. the hardest to read vs. the best reads etc, and it's hard to make ourselves the best candidates for multiple perspectives like that
So personally, I think our best bet is sending a townie to hell, a bad-reads townie to heaven, a townie to hell, and hoping the heaven townie picks poorly on judgment day (even if they do lynch one of us, the game is not lost)

Do you two have thoughts? Two scum to Heaven would be more impressive and maybe more fun, but would probably require sending one of us to hell in between

[Irrelephant11]

Idk who it is
I would find it helpful to be able to metadive, but idk what correct etiquette is

tw in heaven will judgment day me to hell

[Irrelephant11]

k that's fine

how long do I need to wait here to hammer creature while it still looks towny

[Irrelephant11]

I'll do it in like 10ish minutes and then go afk

[Irrelephant11]

I see I'm the scum garnering scumreads, probably just for not being around
I'll probably just sit in this spot (sometimes scum has to sit in PoE reads) until we send DrJ to Heaven, then try to flip things around

otoh I might be able to get justifiably angry for being scumread by like everybody during v/la

[Irrelephant11]

I'm trying to walk the tightrope of playing a little scummy this game day so I get ignored and Dr J goes to Heaven while also setting up for pushing Keyser next game phase while also not looking like I'm doing anything intentionally

Who thinks I'll pull it off? lol I'm not sure

Ausuka you should post more you're great at getting townread when you're active. I'm okay garnering the scumreads long term while you get into Heaven, I don't think I'll get lynched easily during a Hell phase

idk what kind of mess I'm making itt
I want to be able to townread one of keyser/eragon because I think I'm pushing too hard on them but idk how to get there

[Irrelephant11]

yeah even just posting "I'm behind but here's a thing I wanted to respond to" might help
I know the feel :/ it's been difficult getting back into the thread after being v/la

[Irrelephant11]

Is this a good tantrum post

Spoiler:

Also @Dr. J you should be able to guarantee that you are sent to Heaven by voting for yourself.

I take it you still don't want to go to heaven?

And to be sure, how do you feel about the wagon on yourself?

Well if the scumteam is TW/Irrelephant/Labrat, then it makes sense for all of them to prefer to send me to Heaven over you, since I've said that I think Keyser might be right about that being the scumteam. You on the other hand are still townreading TW and Labrat?

No it doesn't??
why would the three of us as scum want to send you to Heaven if you think we're the scumteam? Even if we all survive the next hell phase, you'd send one of us to hell in judgment day.
the me/lab/tw team theory continues to be a joke

Like.. who seriously is going to send LabRat to heaven today

^

It was done to fuel your perspective of anti-distancing.

It was not done because LabRat is one of his strong town reads...

Look at Irrellephants trajectory on LabRat today.

Tell me if town!Irrelphant sends a slot like LabRat over Dr J/Volxen/(TW).

labrat is indeed a townread, not a strong one but I already explained I don't know that I want to send a strong townread any more. You're literally only in the thread to discredit every word out of my mouth at this point and WOW is that an angry-making scum playstyle you've got
just trying to tilt me out of the thread I guess?
I said at start of day that if I could find a town in keyser/eragon/labrat that would make more sense than trying to find town on-wagon, since the odds of finding town off wagon are better in most worlds (scum would probably try to have multiple scum off-wagon, but I don't know how likely it is to actually happen). I think you or eragon are the scum off wagon - or in the world where it's both of you, it's still not labrat, so I do indeed think labrat is a good candidate for heaven. but you know what?
VOTE: Doctor Jekyll, My Hyde because whatever I don't care about this game phase anymore, I put in literal hours upon hours catching up, after a long v/la that multiple people are scumreading me for, and I'm just the easy "and the third scum is Irrelephant" because I haven't been around.
Being called scum for no reason repeatedly is super frustrating, but everyone is convinced that Keyser has solved the game so, great.

fwiw I'm still working on my eragon case because his posts are like incredibly (intentionally??) hard to quote but it won't matter till hell phase anyway. I don't think you need to look further than his response to me like three pages ago, where he tried to get towncred for townreading Creature and for activity, when activity is 0% AI for him (it's not AI for most of this playerlist, come to think of it) and he spent eod2 and the first half of D2 trying to convince us all his townread on creature was actually very weak and it couldn't be TMI because he came around to thinking creature might be scum in the end

Let's do Dr J -> me -> eragon (Dr J's hell lynch), please and thanks.

[Irrelephant11]

Okay I think I'm getting lynched here


time to go into antispew mode
Let's plan what might work

[Irrelephant11]

I was right when I said keyser/tw would be hard to overcome as scum
they're a formidable duo
Korina, lcpl, I think your job at this point should just be to write posts for Ausuka to paraphrase into the thread

Whatever we can do to get ausuka in heaven
Bus me (but not too hard) if I'm going down
Or maybe don't, actually, whatever will earn you less attention
Maybe lightly defending me would be more unexpected?

Either way you need to get in town's good graces

[Irrelephant11]

Here's a thought:

If it looks like I'm going down, I'll "accidentally" post itt something that belongs in the scumchat as a way to fakespew ausuka town

Something like

"Yeah, looks like I'm going down . I think it probably sets us up well enough, though? I agree you should probably send him to Heaven if you can to get him out of the thread, and Ausuka/labrat both seem pretty lynchable for the next hell phase. but also if you see the opportunity to get to Heaven, take the win! Oh and I can still post here, right? I'll help you write cases if you need"

Followed by another post:
"lol"

It would "spew" labrat/ausuka town and potentially set up enough confusion for ausuka to make it to heaven?
But I won't do it if you guys think it's too WIFOMy

[Irrelephant11]

Oh and the "lol" post would also include a self-hammer

[Irrelephant11]

eh I might survive this game day
My plan to "accidentally" put scumchat stuff in the main thread might actually make more sense at a point where I'm not being wagoned
Actually if we both survive this gameday it might be fascinating to try during the Heaven phase to see if it gets you into Heaven

[Irrelephant11]

Would it?

@Mod: Am I allowed to pretend to "accidentally" post in the main thread something "meant to be posted" in this thread?

It would out my alignment, but would still be playing to my win condition

[Irrelephant11]

I'm thinking I might post the "slip" today
Any thoughts on it?

[Irrelephant11]

ausuka are you ready to have a towny reaction when it happens? I think that will be very important in the case town starts to wonder "could this be a gambit?"
I don't think I can copy/paste from this thread but I'm thinking something like

"Yeah I'm fine with going down this phase, you got this one in the bag. I agree you should send him to Heaven next phase if you're not the top contender - he's the most likely to catch you out imo, so the sooner he's out of the thread the better. Next hell phase you can probably mislynch labrat/replacement, or if they're strong, go for ausuka".

Followed by a second post ~2 minutes later
"lol
vote: irrelephant"

[Irrelephant11]

let me think more about this
If I reveal too much info, town will wonder why mod hasn't just called the game
If I reveal too little, town will wonder why I was *only talking about Ausuka* or something

[Irrelephant11]

Well I'm gonna be self-voting, and I'm pretty sure it'll be hammer when I do (rn I'm just watching to see if tw moves to labrat, in which case I might wait longer to do it/try to save myself)
I just know that if town comes around to it being a gambit, they will look back to see all the reactions. Do your best not to TMI anything in this moment, because it's likely these posts will matter very much

[Irrelephant11]

my only holdup here is if this gambit, while being within the rules, is against the spirit of the rules. Do you guys feel I'm cheating town out of an "honest game" with this gambit? I could just self-vote here and let Ausuka find her way to heaven on her own, if it would be more satisfying for everyone involved.

I like the cleverness of the play, I just don't want anyone to feel like we broke the game just to win it

[Irrelephant11]

yeah okay I think I'll still do it - no word out of the mouth of scum should be trusted, so it'll be town's fault if they believe it. I think I agree it's not gamebreaking, I just wanted someone else's opinion before going forward with it.

[Irrelephant11]

wait
I'm thinking more about what I would do if someone else posted this
If I believed it weren't a gambit I would probably keep both ausuka and labrat alive forever
shoot
in this scenario the two of you would go to lylo with whoever is towniest, then if you mislynch that player to hell, judgment day martyrs have to decide between you two.

Is this a good strat?? ahhhhh hahaha this might be dumbbb

[Irrelephant11]

so if you didn't notice, I still haven't dropped the fake info, if only because I can't decide how likely it is ausuka beats labrat in a 1v1 judgment day scenario
Keyser might come around to town!me, so I'm not giving up yet

[Irrelephant11]

tried my best to set you up well Ausuka, idk how well I did
I definitely think this game is winnable and that my flip might even help us in the long run (don't have to worry about accidentally making bad associatives anymore)
Gl

[Irrelephant11]

okay we're set up okay but I think you need to show some aggressive game-solving this phase
what are your best town games? I'll go find some posts that you wrote that were really towny and adapt them to this game

[Irrelephant11]

I understand the nerves
I think you're positioned well
try to project confidence (town just got a successful lynch finally, woo!), I'll work on those posts for you

[Irrelephant11]

So writing a post for you, is harder than I thought, but here's some things that seem town indicative for you, Ausuka, based on browsing those two games:

-you're never afraid as town to bring up when something is "off tonally"
-you don't always explain your reads at first
-you said this once when someone said you were "too quiet": "i'm trying. i feel like every post profii made recently is kind of a scumclaim to the point where I'm not sure scum would behave in this way :/"
-you're not afraid to say the gamestate is confusing or feels incoherent (don't go overboard with this though, probably)


I think we did a good job messing with vca, so don't be afraid to look for the "off wagon scum", but also no need to do that just yet. I feel like you can just say something like "volxen's recent posts are very scummy imo"
I'm trying to think of how you might get into Heaven before tw's plan goes through, I'm not sure if it will actually happen
Right now you just need to outplay the labrat slot

[Irrelephant11]

How does the replace out spew conf town? I don’t think town sees it that way

[Irrelephant11]

I think it’s reasonable to say itt that you think labrat’s feelings were indicative of her getting caught

[Irrelephant11]

And that she knew about WW because of me

[Irrelephant11]

thanks!
Sorry I didn't do more to set you up and/or stay alive; I was super into our "scumchat slip" plan before I realized it wouldn't work; and then it was too late, I think. Game's not lost, though! You've got quite the road to winning this for us but I think it's possible

[Irrelephant11]

if you need another reason to scumread labrat later, her sending tw to heaven instead of keyser could be painted as a way to have a chance to get into heaven 3

[Irrelephant11]

Lol

[Irrelephant11]

Okay so the new problem is you have to beat either Eragon or Keyser

[Irrelephant11]

In Watchmen Wanted, Nauci scumcased Keyser by pointing out that in his most recent scumgame, he absolutely manipulated everyone and led town

[Irrelephant11]

You could maybe use that for Keyser paranoia, though if you did you’d almost be outing your agenda

[Irrelephant11]

Just something to consider I guess
I think you can beat labrat

[Irrelephant11]

If you’re going after Eragon, he helped every mislynch happen while also avoiding most wagons like the plague
If you’re in an Eragon/you final 2, you could argue I was trying to townspew Eragon by tunneling him, and that you think the first two game days there had to be a scum off wagon

[Irrelephant11]

I think it would be smart for you to get more active if you can
Even if it’s just real-time interactions with someone that don’t mean a ton, or just quoting a bunch of things in separate posts with a few thoughts

[Irrelephant11]

I mean the case eventually convinced me to vote Keyser
But yeah
You have to beat two players, so that’s the issue here

[Irrelephant11]

There can only be one townie who get a more townreads than you, and they’ll go to heaven

[Irrelephant11]

That’s actually a pretty good idea I think?

[Irrelephant11]

If you can look like duped Ausuka maybe Keyser/Eragon will look like expert-scum