Starcraft Mafia -- Game Over!

[Performer]

Man I have a really hard time sorting people with this sort of ego and bravado

I dont see it as ego or bravado from saud & vars. Gustavo is probably a good definition of ego

vars plays differently than a lot of people or even most people. I think hes town here from his interactions & painful wall post elaborations
saud is a hard to read player and throughout the games Ive been with him, he's evolved scum & town play quickly . so, no read on him in this game.

[Keyser Söze]

Creature should be a null read for everyone right now.

I thought the humor in his posts around 250 were townish.

I don’t think he’s done anything so far that scum-Creature couldn’t easily replicate (that’s not me saying I’m an expect on Creature scum-meta)

[Creature]

I remember having some handful number of townreads but didn't mention them through the thread because it felt too obvious

Please mention. Join us townreaders!

but I didn't keep track of them :/

[Nauci]

@Irrelephant: You jumped votes between your first two posts (which were within a page of each other) as mafia in micro 824.2 (and I note that on that one your jump was away from the wagon on your scumbuddy).
By comparison you took longer to switch votes in mini normal 2042 as town, and even when you did switch, you almost immediately unvoted.
You also took your time to switch votes in mini 2018 again as town.
I'm having trouble finding the third one again, so maybe I was wrong about that. But hey, 2 out of 3 ain't bad.

So the scum game you found, I started the game as a lone Mafioso. I was later recruited by RCEnigma, so my unvote of him at the start of the game was uninformed (as uninformed as I am here) and not partner-indicative. Regardless, this is literally "I am cherry picking three of your games (excluding a bunch of them for no discernible reason - why would I play significantly different as IC, for example?) and you did this one thing as scum one time and you're doing it here; therefore, scum." Oh wait, also "an OMGUS vote". Do you believe in this read? You haven't tried to sell anyone on it. Are you just happy to feel like you can justify voting me, or?

I think if you examined more of my games/examined specifically games where I am familiar with most of the playerlist/extended your examination of this wagonhopping to include more of D1 (I'm not even always present for RVS, for example), you'd find this is literally the crappiest meta scumread anyone has ever had - especially since others who are familiar with me have already told you I'm town.

Someone stop me - I feel like mitillos' scumread of me is agenda-y, and I would not like to tunnel on town if I am wrong.

the worst "agreeing to disagree" with shoshin was towny

As in scum-TW wouldn’t want town-Shoshin on his back? So TW doing the opposite of this is “towny”?

Yes, as well as his insistence on having a scumread (on his scumpartner? unlikely. On a random townie, when he's scum? Not if it'll make him unpopular. As a townie who thinks he maybe found scum early? Much more likely.)

I'm kinda being lazy this game (aka I just woke up from a loooong jetlag nap)

I know several people here are muuuuch better/different as town versus scum. Irrelephant is very good as scum. Who else is, since I don't quite recognize everyone?

Also, is there a VOTE: Not_Mafia in the house?

My trip was half great fun, half pollution induced bronchitis (I coughed up a rose shaped piece of mucus the size of a small strawberry AMA), half weight gain from ultra delicious Chinese food being shoved down my gullet by my whole family.

I'll note here that my towngame has improved and it is as yet unclear if my scumgame has improved to match. I think you'll be able to read me this game.

I've got no read at all on Keyser since I'm recalibrating on him haha

+town for Nauci, unless they're partners

I actually want to look at Relly

Hi!

It's kind of baffling that you propose a policy lynch on me and when Irrel + The Worst deny it outright and ask you why
You hard dodge
Then post this sort of thing:

I think I should be higher on the town list, the worst.

For what reason even?

Because she's obvtown

VOTE: Skitter

I had similar feelings.

This is spineless.
You asked Nauci for a read just to sheep it.
I see no trajectory that'd lead you to have this opinion on skitter, even.

She doesn't need to provide trajectory if she's right or if the results of not providing trajectory are helpfully AI from skitter

^ Like you say you 'had similar feelings' but you haven't mentioned skitter once before in your ISO.

Towny for Shoshin

VOTE: Varsoon

I think Varsoon might be town, but I haven't decided yet

You didn't even bother answering any of the points I raised, you just went straight for the vote.

Shoshin, I thought you were better.

No you didn't

Here's me stopping you from tunneling

It seemed like a reasonable read to make during the stage where we only have like 4 pages of posts and we have to make somethings out of nothings to get the game going, and it was as good as any narrative to work up. I thought he picked most recent games versus deliberate cherry picking

Also

For clarity

I disagreed with his assessment of your meta but do not declare you a town read yet (but you're used to me refusing to town read you for a long time)

[Keyser Söze]

I actually have (old) playhistory with Creature, Performer, Varsoon and teacher (?) so may dig up those games


I can definitely remember playing with Varsoon (I can remember swearing at him )

[Shoshin]

I remember having some handful number of townreads but didn't mention them through the thread because it felt too obvious

Please mention. Join us townreaders!

but I didn't keep track of them :/

the worst, what's your take on this? town or scum?

[Performer]

If anyone would like to read through meta, I can link you to like 5? games where I could read Shoshin within her first few posts
Vote me before shoshin, please - at least my role is negative utility

I dont want 5 games but 2 would be good. Also disagree about reading people within their first few posts . I had a game where someone mentioned he could absolutely read someone and he ended up being totally wrong and a majority of the phase was devoted to that crazy ordeal .
gustavo said he was certain I was scum and I was town mason in a mini normal. So , I dont believe in people relying that strongly on just meta.

Your role IS negative utility if you're tpr. If it's a scum claim, that's very daring . Asking for us to vote you is just

[Shoshin]

gustavo

Irrelephant isn't Gustavo. Can't compare.

[Performer]

I actually have (old) playhistory with Creature, Performer,

that's so old and I was so (and probably still? lol) terrible

[Varsoon]

I do suspect that at least one of Irrel, Shoshin, AlmostNancy, and TheWorst is scum, yes.

Why?

I don't believe in blocks this early, I've modded (and played in) too many games where scum have infiltrated D1 townblocks and coasted on it hard.

@Varsoon: That doesn't address the defensiveness, though. If you're annoyed at someone who is townreading you but otherwise wrong about someone else, where exactly does the "I am threatened scum" line come from? Also, which one from those four are you currently suspecting? Is it still Shoshin, or?

I think Shoshin/Irrel will actually sort itself before we even get close to LYLO, so I'm actually not all that worried and I'd really prefer we lynch outside of them today.

[Nauci]

It'd be a different story if your votes weren't everywhere and baseless,
If your rationale for voting wasn't flimsy and subject to change at a whim,
If you weren't propping up bald votes on someone you're clamoring for a policy lynch on,
and if you'd actually engaged with any of my points raised against you.

You seem to be scum reading her for very good first-10-pages strategies, which involve going off of very little data to provoke sortable responses and frequently engaging in vote wagons even if blankly to provoke posts precisely like the ones you've made in order to sort you

Operation successful for both shoshin and I, tbh

@shoshin, I hope this doesn't play out like varsoon = Gustavo 2.0

[Varsoon]

To follow that up and answer the other bit, Mitillos:
It was kind of a pre-emptive reposte to what I felt would be a likely dig at me.

[Varsoon]

@Nauci: Baiting someone into exploding, especially when you know that player explodes and looks bad for it as town, is not great play and, is, in fact, really scummy play.

[Varsoon]

You can talk up all you like with the 'provoking responses' but when the reads garnered from the responses are just tooled to one's liking, it's not an inherently town strategy.

[Varsoon]

This is why Slayers Gambit does not work, by the by.

[Nauci]

Varsoon, why do you treat early, 2-3 votewagons as if they must be accurate reads, or require extensive justification, or are in danger of leading to your lynch?

The fact that you're already talking about how you'd flip from having 2 page <10 votes on you gives me bad vibes, but maybe we just have wildly different early game philosophy. What's yours?

[Shoshin]

I don't believe in blocks this early, I've modded (and played in) too many games where scum have infiltrated D1 townblocks and coasted on it hard.

And then there's games where blocks are composed solely of town... and those blocks crush scum...

Your response doesn't answer my question. It's fine if you don't believe in forming blocks as a matter of theory, but once they've been formed, you need to sort them. Why are you assuming the block has one (or more) scum instead of actually trying to figure out the players' alignments?

[Irrelephant11]

If anyone would like to read through meta, I can link you to like 5? games where I could read Shoshin within her first few posts
Vote me before shoshin, please - at least my role is negative utility

I dont want 5 games but 2 would be good. Also disagree about reading people within their first few posts . I had a game where someone mentioned he could absolutely read someone and he ended up being totally wrong and a majority of the phase was devoted to that crazy ordeal .
gustavo said he was certain I was scum and I was town mason in a mini normal. So , I dont believe in people relying that strongly on just meta.

Your role IS negative utility if you're tpr. If it's a scum claim, that's very daring . Asking for us to vote you is just

I mean, it's pretty obvious I don't actually want votes. I just want votes on shoshin even less than I want votes on me.
hard meta scumreads and hard meta townreads are different imo.

viewtopic.php?p=10438106#p10438106 - hard townread on shoshin by page 5
viewtopic.php?p=10493177#p10493177 - replaced into a game I'd been barely skimming in which shoshin was pretty widely scumread (and not playing very well) but I was correctly >80% sure she was town

[Shoshin]

@Nauci: Baiting someone into exploding, especially when you know that player explodes and looks bad for it as town, is not great play and, is, in fact, really scummy play.

That's not what I did, nor is it what Nauci's talking about.

[Nauci]

It's like people are actively making it hard for me to keep up in this game...sigh

I am not an alt. I just haven't played in a very long time. Also worst posted before irrelephant.

Ah ok, it's because you're the only person I haven't played with or even heard of.
the posting - I checked again and it was because of my pg dn key, it scrolled past the mod's wall posts all the way into Irrel's post so I thought that was his confirm itt.

Oh and we have a decent mod in this game.

oof burn

lol I somewhat agree with a50
though I would change "decent" to "superb"

Incidentally, I saw in post #1 a mention of "informed status" not being revealed on flip. I've never played in a game with informed players, so I was wondering if the information they have should be shared with the rest of the town. Thoughts?

Well, my first thought is I don't have any experience in ever seeing someone say something like this. But if someone is informed and wants to share it, I'd say it depends. I don't think it's a black and white one-size-fits-all solution.

Something about the way he has gone way out of his way to post an elaborate explanation for a quick missed post here pings me hard

VOTE: Performer

[Shoshin]

viewtopic.php?p=10493177#p10493177 - replaced into a game I'd been barely skimming in which shoshin was pretty widely scumread (and not playing very well) but I was correctly >80% sure she was town

That was an impressive read, actually.

[Nauci]

@TW, performer

always feels wolfy to me too,

I don't remember us being even the same alignment in that one game...so I'm not sure where you're getting this from...

i actually live near some of the california wildfires from a couple of weeks back. it was awful trying to breathe outside here for a few days - i felt the ash stuck in my throat

and then i went to sf for a day and it was even worse there, i couldn't stay outside for longer than like five minutes without coughing

Yeah the air in CA is normally good . This is the first time ever in the bay area this year, that it's ever been terrible with the smoke. I say PGE mistakes and arsons. No way it's just "natural"

Wut

I don't know what you're talking about with PGE and arsons

It was all the result of the Camp Fire that completely disintegrated an entire town in under 24 hours

[Nauci]

@Irrelephant: Aww, you ruined it now.
UNVOTE: Irrelephant11 222 was 100% town, and the previous stuff wasn't bad either.
I will note that ignoring SI games is valid, because you have additional... responsibilities if you will, which could easily affect your playstyle. Also, games where you joined late wouldn't have told me if you wagonhop in RVS. However, you're right, what I did was definitely agenda-y:
worst probtown for posts 116 and 159 (amongst others). I'm ambivalent about Nauci for post 179. To those who play with her a lot: Is she always particularly careful and deliberating, or is she more like this as one alignment than others? I want to townread her for it, but I don't want to be biased just because I like her playstyle.
Shoshin is still town.

I'm particularly careful and deliberating if I'm posting from my laptop, where I can take notes and format stuff

And spammy when I post in real time (usually via mobile) but still try to be more strategic and reign in my hot takes at least a little

[Krazy]

Need

[Krazy]

Vespene