Mature Mafia: Game Over

[DrippingGoofball]

I wouldn't, but you did, haha.

[Glork]

I wouldn't, but you did, haha.

....uh-huh.

I can't honestly tell if you're
A) A complete idiot
B) Scum
C) Just getting wrapped up in this whole Firing Squad thing
D) A and C
E) A and B
F) A, B, and C

[Phoebus]

I'm not sure you should read too much into the Macros thing right now.
It's more cam + logic faction that i mentioned earlier.

at least as far as i'm concerned.

[elvis_knits]

Glork, there have been some times I thought you were pretty pro-town this game, but I have questions about why you are doing some of the things you're doing. I'm not really saying they're scummy. I just think there are some inconsistencies:

1) Glork bandwagons DGB without letting cam answer her vote/case.

Even if you don't really like DGB's reasons, usually you would want to hear what cam has to say before you dilute their power. I mean, I think cam can speak for himself. And you should want to hear what cam has to say so you can get a better read on him, right?

2) Glork focuses on DGB over any of the other bandwagoners...

Raj and macros voted cam after DGB, and their reasoning is at least as bad. You mentioned macros is on your bad list, but you are not questioning raj or macros and their actions. Why?

3) DBG always plays like this.

Why are you getting so worked up if you are familiar with her meta? Is there something that you think doesn't fit in her meta?

[Glork]

1) I have a habit of attacking really bad reasoning. I wasn't going to sit around and let DGB's crap reasons seep, whether Cam was around or not.

2) Raj I've sortof skipped over. His vote on Axel intrigued me, because I was pretty certain he didn't see what I thought I had seen. But yes, he has wagon-hopped, and I've just missed him, probably because he's been less active/vocal overall.

3) As I stated, I believe that I can get an accurate read on DGB's alignment most of the time, once I see her get involved in an extensive debate. DGB and I butt heads in-game at least 50% of the time, often over something tangential or seemingly insignificant, but if it helps me read someone, I'm all for it. (Of course, this game happens to be one of the instances where I'm just baffled, rather than having a firm, strong read on her. I'm still working on it.)

[Macros]

So we have a Glork-mathcam-Macros scumgroup, wow, you guys must have thought "Dream Team, woo!" when you got your PMs.

holy shit you're good dgb, you caught us all in one fell swoop.
I've never claimed to be a good player, but I'd like to think I'm not stupid enough to climb into cams bed in public if I was his partner (though I'd say he'd enjoy it)
I'm not going to change my vote, DGb is being to pushy and I dont like it, i dont like this whole 'numbers and tells" game its crap, everyone has a different agenda and playing style so everyone performance (pooky aside) is different every game. the only obvious scumtell are "hey look at me I'm mafia!" or " dont vote barney, hes my killing partner"

Yes it's blatant day 1 page 4 wagoning. I do believe I see more scumtells than average for mathcam. That's my opinion.

Pardon me if I don't value your opinion

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

You going on a hitjob on PJ made sense from a protown perspective cuz he could handle it. It makes sense because it looked like you were trying to get a grip on PJ's alignment.

None of that browbeating contained the type of loaded crap you've tossed at DGB.(well at least not in a serious tone as I can remember)

When you go on a hitjob on DGB it looks a helluva more like you are going for blood.(I mean why didnt you do the same to the people who jumped on prior to DGB?, looked like you were just waiting for an easy target to blast)

When you did that hitjob on PJ on day one, you weren't seriously out for his blood(considering he was the King, I don't see how you could've expected to get him lynched)

this hitjob on DGB however does have the potential of lynching DGB, and you look far more like a player going for the throat than any reactions.

[rajrhcpfreak]

i buy the cam-glork-macros scum team.

this constant badgering people about how they voted and then letting cam avoid a claim is pretty scummy in my book.

the glork addition is weaker because of his abrasive style. so those two could be following the lead of a crazy person.


note: macros and cam were two out of the three people asking me to defend a hunch. the third of course was the person my hunch was against

[elvis_knits]

Although I don't really like some of Glork's behavior, I don't really think he's scum. Mostly because of this post:

DISCLAIMER: The upcoming post does not necessarily reflect what my own role may or may not be/include. I am merely using it as the simplest example I can think of off the top of my head, so as to make a point to Axel.

Consider the case of a mountainous game (aside from "mod powers" such as VCing). At night, the Mafia could simply PM their target saying something along the lines of "We are killing you. Please open the thread and reveal your role to the other players" -- perhaps even from an alt/anonymous account. The deceased player (n this case, Zu_Faul) complies, and the rest of us move on with our lives.

In the absence of a "killer" alt for PMing purposes, a situation such as the above example would create an interesting scenario in which the scums would have to rely on victims' honesty to not reveal their identities while the town relies on the scums to reveal themselves truthfully and to adhere to conventional game rules.

This mechanism of mafia submitting kills seems very likely. It immediately made sense to me, and I can't actually think of a better way for it to go down. And I guess this is WIFOM, but I can't see any real mafioso posting this. I know a mafioso could do it for that exact reason, etc. BUT. I think it's pretty unlikely. If it were me, I would avoid commenting on mafia killing mechanisms at all. The potential for getting myself in trouble is just too great.

Thoughts?

[rajrhcpfreak]

yes it's WIFOM.

scum could be helpful by telling us. but the town knowing that info is useless in the big picture of the game.

[elvis_knits]

Yeah but revealing it has so much potential for slipping or people being like "how do you know that" that I don't think mafia would reveal it.

I would just stay away if I was mafia.

Would you think about revealing it?

[rajrhcpfreak]

we are all good mafia players, especially glork.

his statement makes sense.
talking about this is a huge wifom.

and for the record, i would reveal it. helping the town is always good. you will never be questioned for helping the town. because the only way to turn it back onto you is a wifom.

[Adel]

Although I don't really like some of Glork's behavior, I don't really think he's scum. Mostly because of this post:

DISCLAIMER: The upcoming post does not necessarily reflect what my own role may or may not be/include. I am merely using it as the simplest example I can think of off the top of my head, so as to make a point to Axel.

Consider the case of a mountainous game (aside from "mod powers" such as VCing). At night, the Mafia could simply PM their target saying something along the lines of "We are killing you. Please open the thread and reveal your role to the other players" -- perhaps even from an alt/anonymous account. The deceased player (n this case, Zu_Faul) complies, and the rest of us move on with our lives.

In the absence of a "killer" alt for PMing purposes, a situation such as the above example would create an interesting scenario in which the scums would have to rely on victims' honesty to not reveal their identities while the town relies on the scums to reveal themselves truthfully and to adhere to conventional game rules.

This mechanism of mafia submitting kills seems very likely. It immediately made sense to me, and I can't actually think of a better way for it to go down. And I guess this is WIFOM, but I can't see any real mafioso posting this. I know a mafioso could do it for that exact reason, etc. BUT. I think it's pretty unlikely. If it were me, I would avoid commenting on mafia killing mechanisms at all. The potential for getting myself in trouble is just too great.

Thoughts?

ah, this makes sense to me now. If the scum are cheating (editing posts, or whatever) then they effectivly lose their NK.

[Glork]

i buy the cam-glork-macros scum team.

I know this is going to be called OMGUS by at least one or two people, but this is ridiculous.

Unvote, Vote: RAJ

[Glork]

EBWOP: Yes, Adel. That's exactly why I think there's some kind of self-balancing "honor system" both ways.

[Macros]

Why are you denying our super team glork? embrace it, we're good ftw with sucha team! quick, climb into bed with me and cam!!
I'm not even going to defend against this accusation because Its so ridicukously lame, if i was in cam and glorks team I wouldn't be associating with them in anyway, please, I know I'm not the best of players but give me some fucking credit

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

WIFOM much?

[Glork]

WIFOM much?

I don't think you honestly believe that the three of us are scum together either.

[elvis_knits]

cam is lurking.

Otherwise I could vote raj.

[mathcam]

I am not lurking. I missed a single day of posting, and am one of the most active posters in this game.

FOS: Elvis

for that.

Pooky, it has happened several times this game that you have questioned or attacked me, I've submitted a response, and you've completely dropped that line of attack. Is that because you concede that the argument wasn't as strong as you thought? If so, why does that never seem to weigh against your conviction that I'm scum? If not, why do you drop them?

In any case, here's the most recent one:

OR...He is saying that if he were scum or if he were town he would be confused about this game. Which he couldn't know unless he knew there was nothing in the scum PMs to give some idea of the nature of the game we would be playing to the scum thus making them not as confused as the townies.

Which also hints strongly towards his scumitude.

No matter which side I'm on, I couldn't possibly know what the role PMs of the other side look like, and/or what information they've been given. Thus regardless of my alignment, I would have had to make a presumption on the other side's role PM. My claim was based on the (IMO) reasonable speculation that no side has been given more information on the rules of the game than the other.

On a related note, I'm very suspicious of Glork, raj, and DGB for pushing for a claim. In my role PM, there is a very clearly delineated difference between my alignment and my role. There's no doubt that I will claim pro-town as my alignment, and given that my role is presumably independent of my alignment, I'm not sure what there is to gain from that either. Not only is it therefore bad play to claim (unnecessarily giving away information), it's also scummy to push for a claim. It's also possible that the scum role/alignment structure is set up differently, and thus that scum didn't know how worthless it would be to push for a claim. Raj is the scummiest of those three, so he gets my vote.

Unvote: Pooky, vote: Raj.

If raj turns up scum, DGB and Glork are quite clearly going to become my next targets.

Cam

[rajrhcpfreak]

pretty confident, since cam is refusing to claim fully.

i like that all the people i said that could be a scum group, voted for me... omgus much?

[mathcam]

You have just completely ignored my argument that it would be demonstrably foolish for me to claim. I would also refuse to self-lynch, not because I'm being obstinate, but because it's patently bad play.

If you can provide an even mildly reasonable counter-argument, I would be happy to claim.

Cam

[mathcam]

ah, this makes sense to me now. If the scum are cheating (editing posts, or whatever) then they effectivly lose their NK.

I'm confused. How so?

[logicticus]

ah, this makes sense to me now. If the scum are cheating (editing posts, or whatever) then they effectivly lose their NK.

I'm confused. How so?

I was confused too, but I think I figured it out.

Assuming that the nightkill is PMed from the scum (as was hypothesized), then the nightkill knows the identity of at least one scum and could post that in their final post if the scum is cheating in some way.

Although, this logic is a bit flawed because what would stop the scum from editing that post?

In the end it all comes down to a code of honor that we all have from being members on this site for a while which is why its mature mafia.

[ShadowLurker]

but someone has already broken that honor multiple times as the first two posts have been edited multiple times