Newbie 1904 - Game Over

[Child]

But jim not voting and claiming he will hammer (with it being that close to deadline this delayed hammer post is super unreliable and scummy, and I dont see why jim did this as town). If muh didnt hammer I assume jim would not hammer with the excuse of afk or something.

jim waiting could also be buying time, asking ohx to claim PR and hoping town loses confidence, that's true. both are good lynches imo, the only difference is my gut is telling me to vote muh, so i am going for him.

[Lamees]

But jim not voting and claiming he will hammer (with it being that close to deadline this delayed hammer post is super unreliable and scummy, and I dont see why jim did this as town). If muh didnt hammer I assume jim would not hammer with the excuse of afk or something.

jim waiting could also be buying time, asking ohx to claim PR and hoping town loses confidence, that's true. both are good lynches imo, the only difference is my gut is telling me to vote muh, so i am going for him.

I am torn too. I am also leaning muh but I thought the rest were leaning jim. Anyway there's still some co-ordination to do, I'm fine with either one.

[Donempire]

I guess today im fine with a muh lynch. I'll post my case this weekend. Sorry i havent been posting, i have been really busy these couple of days, but i'll make time for mafia this weekend.
Also, i think i'll retract from my original readslist statement, because i dont think its no longer necessary. There are 2 confirmed town, 2 people i dont suspect and 2 people i do. Not much point stating that in longer and less understandable terms. I'll stick with giving a thorough rundown of muh's iso this saturday hopefully.

I think i'll give Jim more time, in any case, because even though he has been in the shadows for most of the time, so has muh, and he should be the one sticking out like mud with him being SE and whatnot. And no matter what, i believe he made a positive impact on the outcome of yesterdays lynch and proceedings. Whereas for muh... Lets not spoil ourselves with trailers, yes?

Also not voting because i want to place a dramatic one after my case. So thats why

[Irrelephant11]

Alright upon reread I think I do agree that dong & child are the two we probably shouldn’t lynch ever (along with me and abyssal)

Whoever is in lylo (if lylo happens) please do a reread of the other two slots before voting
I still think muh is townier than Jim but I’ll vote either
Interested to hear more from empire

[Micc]

Votecount 2.02

Jim Hawkins (1) -

Lamees

Lamees (1) -

Jim Hawkins

muh316 (1) -

Child

Not Voting (4) -

Dongempire, muh316, Irrelephant11, AbyssalLord

With 7 players alive it takes 4 votes to lynch.

The deadline for Day 2 is in (expired on 2018-12-18 17:50:00).

[Jim Hawkins]

jim not voting and claiming he will hammer (with it being that close to deadline this delayed hammer post is super unreliable and scummy, and I dont see why jim did this as town). If muh didnt hammer I assume jim would not hammer with the excuse of afk or something.

I don't understand this case. I was trying to follow what I thought to be an appropriate protocol, considering the circumstances. The town had been wagon jumping up until the final hours before the deadline. Considering that the town needed to lynch someone, I analysed the cases against Okx and stated my intent to hammer. This, again, was literally hours before the deadline. Not knowing how much time there would be between the final vote and the thread being locked, I picked the 30 minute deadline to both give players more time to say anything they needed to, but to also make sure that the lynch was achieved without any timing snafus. I know that muh had also stated an intent to hammer, but the only person I can trust to cast a vote is myself. Also, if anyone else had decided to unvote in that time, my intent had already been stated.

[Lamees]

It was an assumption. How do I know if you would hammer?

I am leaning muh316 though, but if he is town surely it's you.

VOTE: muh316

[Irrelephant11]

I mean if child or dong bussed we just have to accept a loss. There's no way to find out lol

I disagree with this though. Bussing can get caught out by reading carefully
Don’t rush any game day
Scum can still make mistakes, and they’re easier to catch when you don’t rush through a game phase (usually)

[Irrelephant11]

Muh, Jim - do either of you think Child or dongempire might be Mafia?

[Irrelephant11]

I still think it’s VOTE: Jim
His recent read list doesn’t make sense - me and Abyssal should be at the top of anyone’s reads
dongempire is actually a slight possibility here
I now think Child is less likely to be scum than dong

[Irrelephant11]

Even then I think I still just agree scum is in {Jim, lamees, muh}

[Irrelephant11]

I’ll trust other (prob)town and VOTE: muh316 I suppose

[Lamees]

I still think it’s VOTE: Jim
His recent read list doesn’t make sense - me and Abyssal should be at the top of anyone’s reads
dongempire is actually a slight possibility here
I now think Child is less likely to be scum than dong

I don't think scum would try to do this lol. He probably legit doesn't understand the setup, as town he didn't have reason to. Could still be scum playing dumb idk.

[Jim Hawkins]

I still think it’s VOTE: Jim
His recent read list doesn’t make sense - me and Abyssal should be at the top of anyone’s reads
dongempire is actually a slight possibility here
I now think Child is less likely to be scum than dong

It's taken me a while to think through and understand certain aspects of the last few pages. Here's a list of things I've been considering:

- There is only one scum left in this group.
- Depending on who I believe to be scum means that I have to believe everyone else is not scum.
- I believe that the remaining scum is/was on pretty much all of the wagons so far, which is Lamees and Irrelephant.
- There were a lot of PR claims, and it's taken me a while to process what happened vs what makes sense.
- Based on the two flips we now know, I believe there is a Tracker in this group.
- I do not like Lamees' post #332, after the hammer vote and literally minutes before the thread is locked for N1:

Ceejay jail me tonight please and thanks.

- If Lamees is not a PR, why would she ask to be jailed?
- Also, does whoever Ceejay picked to jail N1 remain jailed/barred from night action, even though Ceejay was killed?
- If I choose to believe that Lamees is scum, then I have to believe that Irrelephant is town and tracker.
- If I believe that Lamees is scum, then I have to believe that Irrelephant received a null read on Abyssal.

Knowing the order of how night actions play out will help to better understand/solidify the possible situations that could have played out N1.
For now, I'm going to leave my vote on Lamees.

[Irrelephant11]

Since no one else has claimed tracker, I have to be the tracker (the jailkeeper and Rolecop flips confirm that there has to be a tracker)
Since I am the tracker, I can say with certainty that Abyssal did not do the nightkill, and since there’s only one mafia and the nightkill happened, that makes Abyssal confirmed town.
Why does the fact that Lamees was on every wagon cause you to scumread her? I don’t see why that’s scummy (indeed, i did the same, and i am confirmed to be a townie)

[AbyssalLord]

Muh, Jim - do either of you think Child or dongempire might be Mafia?

I personally think that dong is more townie than child here, he started the push on rolecop. If he was scum he could've not said a word and he would be fine.

[Jim Hawkins]

Why does the fact that Lamees was on every wagon cause you to scumread her? I don’t see why that’s scummy (indeed, i did the same, and i am confirmed to be a townie)

I was super strong scum reading the two of you since the game began. Since only one of you can be scum at this point, I started considering more recent events surrounding the D1 lynch, N1, and D2.


Also, for real....can anyone confirm the order of night actions, and which actions take precedence over others?

[Jim Hawkins]

Muh, Jim - do either of you think Child or dongempire might be Mafia?

I would vote for Child before dong, if it came to it.

[Irrelephant11]

Action resolution is described in this post from the mod

Setup Information

2d3 (as designed by Cabd):

	A	B	C
Mafia	Mafia Roleblocker	Mafia Rolecop	Mafia Goon
Row 1	Town Cop and Town Neapolitan	Town Cop and Town Tracker	Town Cop and Vanilla Townie
Row 2	Town Jailkeeper and Town Doctor	Town Jailkeeper and Town Tracker	Town Jailkeeper and Vanilla Townie
Row 3	Town Cop and Town Doctor	Town Neapolitan and Town Doctor	Town Tracker and Town Doctor

Each Newbie Game will be given a setup that incorporates one mafia role from the top of a column, and then two town roles from a row below the selected mafia role. The remaining six roles will be filled in by

one mafia goon

and

five vanilla townies

appropriately, to create a

2-mafia

and

7-town

setup.

All Newbie games use the Natural Action Resolution system for determining Night action effects.

Mafia Roleblocker

action takes precedence over a

Town Jailkeeper

action should that apply.

Mafia have access to their Private Topic at all times.

Spoiler: Full Setups

Column A & Row 1:

Mafia Roleblocker, Mafia Goon, Town Cop, Town Neapolitan, Vanilla Townie x 5

Column A & Row 2:

Mafia Roleblocker, Mafia Goon, Town Jailkeeper, Town Doctor, Vanilla Townie x 5

Column A & Row 3:

Mafia Roleblocker, Mafia Goon, Town Cop, Town Doctor, Vanilla Townie x 5

Column B & Row 1:

Mafia Rolecop, Mafia Goon, Town Cop, Town Tracker, Vanilla Townie x 5

Column B & Row 2:

Mafia Rolecop, Mafia Goon, Town Jailkeeper, Town Tracker, Vanilla Townie x 5

Column B & Row 3:

Mafia Rolecop, Mafia Goon, Town Neapolitan, Town Doctor, Vanilla Townie x 5

Column C & Row 1:

Mafia Goon x 2, Town Cop, Vanilla Townie x 6

Column C & Row 2:

Mafia Goon x 2, Town Jailkeeper, Vanilla Townie x 6

Column C & Row 3:

Mafia Goon x 2, Town Doctor, Town Tracker, Vanilla Townie x 5

Spoiler: Sample Role PM's

Vanilla Townie

Welcome!

You are a

Vanilla Townie

.

You have no special abilities.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

Town Jailkeeper

Welcome!

You are a

Town Jailkeeper

.

You may target one player per night phase. This player will be protected from kills and be prevented from using their own action, if they have one, during that night phase. You cannot target yourself.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

Town Cop

Welcome!

You are a

Town Cop

.

You may target one player per night phase. At the end of the night phase, you will be informed if they are

Town

or

Mafia

. If you are roleblocked, you will receive no result.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

Town Neapolitan

Welcome!

You are a

Town Neapolitan

.

You may target one player per night phase. At the end of the night phase, you will be informed if they are

Vanilla Townie

or

Not Vanilla Townie

. If you are roleblocked, you will receive no result.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

Town Tracker

Welcome!

You are a

Town Tracker

.

You may target one player per night phase. At the end of the night phase, you will be informed what player or players they targeted with their action, if any. If you are roleblocked, you will receive no result.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

Town Doctor

Welcome!

You are a

Town Doctor

.

You may target one player per night phase. This player will be protected from kills during that night phase. You cannot target yourself.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

Mafia Goon

Welcome!

You are a

Mafia Goon

.

Your partner is

PLAYERNAME

who is a

Mafia Goon/Roleblocker/Rolecop

. Together you share a factional kill each night. You must choose which of you will commit the kill. You also share a factional PT, located here, where you may talk at any time.

You win when the Town has been eliminated, or nothing can stop this from occurring.

The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment or by posting in your PT.

Mafia Rolecop

Welcome!

You are a

Mafia Rolecop

.

You may target one player per night phase. At the end of the night phase, you will be informed of their role but not their alignment.

Vanilla Townies

and

Mafia Goons

will both return "Vanilla". If you are roleblocked, you will receive no result.

Your partner is

PLAYERNAME

who is a

Mafia Goon/Roleblocker

. Together you share a factional kill each night. You must choose which of you will commit the kill. You may commit the kill and perform a role cop in the same night phase. You also share a factional PT, located here, where you may talk at any time.

You win when the Town has been eliminated, or nothing can stop this from occurring.

The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment or by posting in your PT.

Mafia Roleblocker

Welcome!

You are a

Mafia Roleblocker

.

You may target one player per night. This player will be prevented from performing their own action, if any.

Your partner is

PLAYERNAME

who is a

Mafia Goon/Rolecop

. Together you share a factional kill each night. You must choose which of you will commit the kill. You may commit the kill and perform a roleblock in the same night phase. You also share a factional PT, located here, where you may talk at any time.

You win when the Town has been eliminated, or nothing can stop this from occurring.

The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment or by posting in your PT.

[Irrelephant11]

Why does the fact that Lamees was on every wagon cause you to scumread her? I don’t see why that’s scummy (indeed, i did the same, and i am confirmed to be a townie)

I was super strong scum reading the two of you since the game began. Since only one of you can be scum at this point, I started considering more recent events surrounding the D1 lynch, N1, and D2.


Also, for real....can anyone confirm the order of night actions, and which actions take precedence over others?

I think you misunderstand my question about Lamees
If I can be on every wagon

and be town

, why can’t Lamees *also* be on every wagon and be town?
It’s not a reason to scumread her in my opinion

[Irrelephant11]

Muh, Jim - do either of you think Child or dongempire might be Mafia?

I would vote for Child before dong, if it came to it.

Really?

[Jim Hawkins]

Why does the fact that Lamees was on every wagon cause you to scumread her? I don’t see why that’s scummy (indeed, i did the same, and i am confirmed to be a townie)

I was super strong scum reading the two of you since the game began. Since only one of you can be scum at this point, I started considering more recent events surrounding the D1 lynch, N1, and D2.


Also, for real....can anyone confirm the order of night actions, and which actions take precedence over others?

I think you misunderstand my question about Lamees
If I can be on every wagon

and be town

, why can’t Lamees *also* be on every wagon and be town?
It’s not a reason to scumread her in my opinion

Lamees could be town. But based on her behavior and actions (one of which was being on every wagon), I believe her to be the most likely scum. Even without wagon jumping, I'm still very skeptical about her asking to be jailed minutes before the paged locked up. I don't understand how that would benefit the town, especially since the JK had a 50% chance of getting lynched anyway. To me, it looks like possible misdirection, but I still can't figure it out...
Also, upon re-read the end of D1, I saw that you predicted the scum Rolecop based on your role before Okx even flipped. I 100% believe you now. Sorry.

And thank you for pointing out the night action rules...somehow I overlooked that line when I re-read the intro.

[muh316]

Muh, Jim - do either of you think Child or dongempire might be Mafia?

I think dong could be Mafia. Child is town in my books unless he slips up pretty bad and gets caught for bussing.

Alright upon reread I think I do agree that dong & child are the two we probably shouldn’t lynch ever (along with me and abyssal)

So is Lamees on your scumlist then?

Anyway, I've stated my opinion on Lamees' play for D2 and it's been pretty scummy to me. Pushing for early lynches on possible town players and ending the day early isn't beneficial to town. If we can drag out the day it's better since we can see some more scum slip-ups.

VOTE: Lamees

As for the votes against me. The accusations against me seem to be purely process of elimination and I get that. We have 2 confirmed town players out of 7. Child and Dong both seem towny at this point for being early adopters on the scum wagon. That leaves me, Jim, and Lamees. I still don't want to take Dong out of the question. ScumDong could have easily predicted an Okx lynch and wanted to jump on the scum wagon early. Therefore, I think the town should reconsider and take time to figure out who the last scum actually is. If we were able to figure this out on D1 based off zero information, D2 we should also take the same approach rather than rushing to end-game.

so has muh, and he should be the one sticking out like mud with him being SE and whatnot

Well technically I'm not an SE, I just replaced the SE slot. This is my 3rd newbie game since 2012 and I was very young back when I used to play. That's why I'm doing the whole 3 newbie game circuit before I move onto normal games because I've forgotten so much.

And no matter what, i believe he made a positive impact on the outcome of yesterdays lynch and proceedings. Whereas for muh...Lets not spoil ourselves with trailers, yes?

Alright, please let me know why I made a negative impact yesterday.

jim not voting and claiming he will hammer (with it being that close to deadline this delayed hammer post is super unreliable and scummy, and I dont see why jim did this as town). If muh didnt hammer I assume jim would not hammer with the excuse of afk or something.

I don't understand this case. I was trying to follow what I thought to be an appropriate protocol, considering the circumstances. The town had been wagon jumping up until the final hours before the deadline. Considering that the town needed to lynch someone, I analysed the cases against Okx and stated my intent to hammer. This, again, was literally hours before the deadline. Not knowing how much time there would be between the final vote and the thread being locked, I picked the 30 minute deadline to both give players more time to say anything they needed to, but to also make sure that the lynch was achieved without any timing snafus. I know that muh had also stated an intent to hammer, but the only person I can trust to cast a vote is myself. Also, if anyone else had decided to unvote in that time, my intent had already been stated.

There was no guarantee that you were going to hammer. Which is why as soon as I came online I saw we had pushed a claim and I looked for a counterclaim to hammer.

muh asking for cc does look townie, but gut tells me it is scum trying to bait out the final PR, or even hoping he could find no CC's and get a no-lynch going. im gonna risk it and vote on muh.

If you were in that situation what would you have done? The only way to know if he was lying was to find a counterclaim.

[Lamees]

@jim, jailer had way more than a 50% chance of getting killed. They wouldn't target tracker in case the jailer decided to protect the tracker and block their kill.
Having a jailer alive is bad for scum because it can shut down a night kill.
Also you're correct, I did ask to be jailed for a case of possible misdirection, but for scum, not town.

@muh what's your read on jim?

[Child]

muh asking for cc does look townie, but gut tells me it is scum trying to bait out the final PR, or even hoping he could find no CC's and get a no-lynch going. im gonna risk it and vote on muh.

If you were in that situation what would you have done? The only way to know if he was lying was to find a counterclaim.

okx was my highest scumread, i would lynch him regardless. his responses to the push were bad too, in my opinion. im assuming you didnt scumread okx as heavily though, but at the end of a day a bad lynch gives more info than a no lynch, so i would probably still hammer anyway. asking for CC's shouldnt matter as much given the fact that town can roll VT.

lets say no one responded to you asking for CC's, would you have not hammered and let a no-lynch occur?