Starcraft Mafia -- Game Over!

[Nauci]

I just remembered that scum were given fake claims

Ok I don't feel any better about performer

i mean it could be a real claim, and he could have used it to kill irrel

nothing inherently townie about the claim

Only part I thought was particularly town was the flavor until I remembered fake ones were provided

[Nauci]

Skitter, shoshin, tw, mitillos: let's talk about Keyser

Also, AN: how much experience do you guys have with Keyser?

[skitter30]

idk anything about the flavor

(i actually thought starcraft was a tv show till i read part of the signup post)

i have basically no thoughts about keyser, which itself is worrying at this stage

[Shoshin]

Key has these hints of towniness, a lot of his posts feel really towny by themselves. But overall, he's much less aggressive and much more passive than his usual town self. What are your thoughts, Nauci?

[Mewtaph]

who is this addressing?

That was addressing "nullish green" or ??? reads on me (ie. their stance on me isn't clear), and they all know who they are. If they pretend not to know or to have missed the post, then I will take it as feigning ignorance while attempting to slow down my game solve.

[Performer]

i have basically no thoughts about keyser, which itself is worrying at this stage

No stance...at all??

We have 100+ pages skitter...

[Shoshin]

For me personally, aggressivness/passivity ranges a lot based on how busy I am, so I kinda want to townread Key because of his really towny posts even though a lot of his usual town play is missing. There's nothing actually scummy about him.

[Kokichi Oma]

VOTE: key

Are you townreading Mew?

No what does the correlation between that and my vote

[skitter30]

i have basically no thoughts about keyser, which itself is worrying at this stage

No stance...at all??

We have 100+ pages skitter...

yes, that's my point

[Shoshin]

VOTE: key

Are you townreading Mew?

No what does the correlation between that and my vote

Felt like a turning point in the game in terms of whether focus would turn onto Mew or Key. You voted Key instead of Mew, and naturally with multiple votes his way, there's more discussion about him. So I'm trying to get a sense of what you specifically think of Mew. Why aren't you townreading him? What's your read?

[AlmostNancy]

Skitter, shoshin, tw, mitillos: let's talk about Keyser

Also, AN: how much experience do you guys have with Keyser?

Me, none but I just ISO’d him and he was heavily scumreading both Irrelephant11 and Creature fwiw.

[Nauci]

What are your thoughts, Nauci?

I'm puzzled and distressed that he's been so quiet and unlike his town or scum self and don't know what to make of it

[Nauci]

Who exactly is your PoE lovely?

I don’t think we lynch the claimed IC today unfortunately (their behaviour since their claim has actually been the time I’ve started to suspect them).

Here’s my current PoE:

NULLISH GREEN : Mit, Mew, Skitter

NULL: Creature, N_M

I have been thinking about your PGO claim too:- it makes more sense as coming from town, as it only works in your favour as scum on the short term, not longterm (long term you wouldn’t escape a policy lynch debate). I don’t see it as a fake claim for a one shot unlynchable scum either. You’d basically be banking on everyone town reading you...

Skitter, shoshin, tw, mitillos: let's talk about Keyser

Also, AN: how much experience do you guys have with Keyser?

Me, none but I just ISO’d him and he was

heavily

scumreading both Irrelephant11 and Creature fwiw.

:Thinking:

[AlmostNancy]

Who exactly is your PoE lovely?

I don’t think we lynch the claimed IC today unfortunately (their behaviour since their claim has actually been the time I’ve started to suspect them).

Here’s my current PoE:

NULLISH GREEN : Mit, Mew, Skitter

NULL: Creature, N_M

I have been thinking about your PGO claim too:- it makes more sense as coming from town, as it only works in your favour as scum on the short term, not longterm (long term you wouldn’t escape a policy lynch debate). I don’t see it as a fake claim for a one shot unlynchable scum either. You’d basically be banking on everyone town reading you...

Skitter, shoshin, tw, mitillos: let's talk about Keyser

Also, AN: how much experience do you guys have with Keyser?

Me, none but I just ISO’d him and he was

heavily

scumreading both Irrelephant11 and Creature fwiw.

:Thinking:

Do you want me to quote the posts?

[AlmostNancy]

Spoiler:

@Relly, I think I owe you this. Gonna dump it all down in one post on why I'm having bad feels with you:-

Expressing early/easy town reads (pocketing):

Creature is town

the worst is town, shoshin is town
skitter is more likely town than not
creature is probtown unless his claim is real, in which case lol

Because she's obvtown

Sheeping a vote/wagon (buddying):

Wanna wagon VOTE: mitillos with me though?

shoshin your point is fair but now who do I wagon

Too defensive of his own meta:

mitillos if you haven't figured it out I like wagons

So the scum game you found, I started the game as a lone Mafioso. I was later recruited by RCEnigma, so my unvote of him at the start of the game was uninformed (as uninformed as I am here) and not partner-indicative. Regardless, this is literally "I am cherry picking three of your games (excluding a bunch of them for no discernible reason - why would I play significantly different as IC, for example?) and you did this one thing as scum one time and you're doing it here; therefore, scum." Oh wait, also "an OMGUS vote". Do you believe in this read? You haven't tried to sell anyone on it. Are you just happy to feel like you can justify voting me, or?

Hard-defending 'town' - potential TMI'ing - pocketing attempt:

but I am here to say that Shoshin is scum .01% of the time here and you should find someone else to wagon

Vote me before shoshin, please - at least my role is negative utility

honestly I think the moral of the story is shoshin/almostnancy/theworst should be the unbreakable townblock for the entire game

{shoshin, the worst, almost nancy} always town

Keyser which of those three reads shouldn't be in the townblock?

the caveat on my reads is that I have townleaned friends who do not deserve it before because I like them

-if you're still talking about scumreading shoshin, lynch me. When I flip town, you are not allowed to place another vote on shoshin. This is @ the entire playerlist.

{shoshin, the worst, almost nancy} always town

This is my tin-foil hat suspicion:

oh nvm he's town
I super like 109, 150, 175 for town!him, though his paranoia of me is interesting and I'm curious to see where it will go

What's the best way to pocket someone suspicious of you...? Town read them.


Thoughts?

what if I told you I just have a lot of townreads and want all my townreads to townread me...

as town

I feel you should be more paranoid / town-cautious.

It's like you've thrown down a town block and you sit pretty within it (players also town reading you).

And then are a list of 4-5 players (probably me on the edge or dipping into it) in everyone's PoE right now. It doesnt feel right.

Keyser, as for my self-meta-stuff, what would your reaction be if someone was like "well Keyser is always easily townread by everyone in every game, and that's not happening here, so he's scum"
Like?? mitillos literally scumcased me by using meta that was just patently untrue, I wanted the record set straight

Your above example is a logical fallacy against you so yeah, I wouldn't like it either.

(*NOTE: I didn't actually dive into the links to check the case)

Was Mitillo's case on you that black and white?

Keyser, I agree that it's very possible that the gamestate is indicative of 1-2 wolves collecting townreads they don't deserve. I don't understand either (1) why that's more likely me than anyone else or (2) why did I set up this sentence to have two parts, I don't think I have a second part

My narrative paints you as the instigator / master manipulator x


It looks like I'm the only one scum reading you...



I will look at Performer next... the 'chosen' wagon

I may have to post my Nauci-Relly scum theory earlier than anticipated

It may be 40 pages too late , but this is where my early

Relly-Nauci scum team theory

came from:

I've got no read at all on Keyser since I'm recalibrating on him haha

+town for Nauci, unless they're partners

I saw this as scum-Relly connecting me to his scum-partner (i.e pre-flip association theory he can return to later).

Nauci & Keyser leantown or partners, or maybe nauci is scum and keyser is town?

Again, further linking me with Nauci (it was especially irritating as I could not even see this web of associations through my minimal interactions with Nauci). IMO, the interactions between me and Nauci did not deserve all this association analysis, thus, very suspicious.

{shoshin, the worst, almost nancy} always town
{skitter, keyser}
{nauci, creature}
{varsoon, saudade, teacher, xtoxm} null
{mitillos, performer}

Relly had been quite hedgy on Nauci so far... I think the placement of Nauci (alongside Creature of all players) makes me feel this was a forced placement.

also nauci not providing a read on me is maybe towny? I can't decide if it's AI

Still hedgy and not conclusive of how indicative it is of alignment.

{shoshin, the worst, almost nancy} always town
{skitter,

nauci

}
{

keyser

, creature}
{varsoon, saudade, teacher,

mitillos

} null
{performer,

xtoxm

}

bolded the ones that moved

Somehow Nauci was now above me in his reads list - how did Nauci get here? You still didn't sound that confident previously (unless you can show me in your posts). Wasn't I supposed to be the townie between me and Nauci..? Now I'm relegated alongside Creature I don't think the way Nauci magically moved up your readslist was genuine.

xtoxm you should post more so that it is harder for nauci to mislynch you

maybe start with a vote on nauci, your strongest scumread

(Now this one is a bit more tin foil hat): I think you were doing the same thing to Xtoxm here - I feel like you were calling xtoxm out for NOT voting for his scum read (Nauci). In both cases I felt like you know what alignment Nauci was... and tying us together to Nauci.

I saw this as scum-Relly connecting me to his scum-partner (i.e pre-flip association theory he can return to later).

What does this mean

Whose scum partner

You and Relly

Do we have time to pressure wagon me?

I think you are over confident scum who has found themselves in a comfort blacker of being town read.
I think you’ve shed easy town reads on the obvious names, while focusing on the players that the majority think look ‘bad’... the Performers... the xtoms.. mew... and now me when I became lead wagon:


Your “Okay, I'm getting why Keyser could be scum now” line is terrible. No you don’t.

I’ll dig up your whole ISO tomorrow. I bet it won’t show you taking the initiative in sorting someone first though. But limping onto to someone after the majority give it the green light.

I don’t buy it as town who doesn’t know who is who.

@Nauci

[skitter30]

reminder: if performer is scum look at people who hard town-read irrel when i wouldn't have necessarily expected them to

[skitter30]

also nauci probs don't reference my scum pt of open 732 if she's scum planning on shooting pgo!irrel because they have a protect - it's a really thing to call me out for if she was planning on doing something similar that night

[skitter30]

really *weird thing to call me out for

[the worst]

Skitter, shoshin, tw, mitillos: let's talk about Keyser

Also, AN: how much experience do you guys have with Keyser?

He's not posting which is like deeply annoying but when he does post, he sounds kinda like town!him. But he's also not pushing buttons the way he does as town.

tbh I think I want to townread him holistically but I'm not there. he's a bit out of my radar because I'd rather push wolfier slots bc I feel like he's gonna start towntelling at some point

[the worst]

Key has these hints of towniness, a lot of his posts feel really towny by themselves. But overall, he's much less aggressive and much more passive than his usual town self. What are your thoughts, Nauci?

^^^^^^

[the worst]

For me personally, aggressivness/passivity ranges a lot based on how busy I am, so I kinda want to townread Key because of his really towny posts even though a lot of his usual town play is missing. There's nothing actually scummy about him.

dat mindmeld tho
this exactly

[the worst]

also nauci probs don't reference my scum pt of open 732 if she's scum planning on shooting pgo!irrel because they have a protect - it's a really thing to call me out for if she was planning on doing something similar that night

This is a really good pickup tbh
Regardless I think Nauci probably pushed her scumrange a couple of times already and can't really see her shooting Rel (her former scumbuddy who had her on locktown) either

[Mewtaph]

The way that this game is shaping out to be as a town player in the PoE, I have doubts that I won't be lynched this game but I am also not very invested in trying to railroad it as a concept because I think that'll be more destructive than trying to help construct a cooperative game state. So that's where I'm kind of at with it. The point where I'm not okay with it is if this becomes a game-long thing were players can refer to the PoE as a reason to not try to actively sort players because that will result in overall apathy and an ethos of non-interactable gameplay. Creature and Not_Mafia flipping town kind of meet the "check step" that suggests that this game is not a "everyone that is LHF is mafia" game. Thoughts?

[the worst]

Yeah I kinda keep checking myself against Heroes Wanted where we had an early PoE of like 10 people which had something like 9 townies in it which was CLEARLY pushed by wolves. as a townie in the PoE I basically got bored of the game and tried to find a way to nuke my slot so I didn't have to argue against 100+ pages

but looking at the town MVPs in that game {Frozen Angel, Anka, Toranaga, probably Sando} did consistently have scumreads outside the PoE.

I kinda feel like the fact we have a fairly sizeable towncore and the more transparently town players are largely townreading each other + the fact the wagon was pushed back to NM towards EoD1 probably suggests that scum actually do have members within the PoE (the wagons yday felt pretty swingy which rarely happens in a gamestate where all wagons are town--i.e. scum don't mind who is lynched)

[the worst]

also like tbf Creature was not PoE and was not widely scumread at all. the only flip so far that's surprised me was NM.