Starcraft Mafia -- Game Over!

[the worst]

interesting q and I wouldn't mind a Mewt lynch today either but I'm not sure I could acrually scumcase him convincingly if that makes sense. he's kinda in this mirror world version of my PoE where his d1 was heaps wolfy except when he was under heavy pressure and I kind of gave him a pass without meaning to and today he's been ........ ok and I'm kind of doing the same thing again without meaning to

like he's not particularly towny at all but he's not openwolfing if that makes sense. I think I'm talking myself circularly into nullreading him

[Mewtaph]

I don't think Performer's lying about his BP claim, so why would Performer would scum claim BP here?

[Kokichi Oma]

sheep me on key

[AlmostNancy]

Protoss shoot lasers and use beam swords and lightning. They're... not really bullet-types.
Zerg? They can infect humans and control them, so it's possible that some Zerg have bullet-type flavor.
There are also just straight up Terran that are bad guys and they'd definitely have bullet-type flavor.

I still don’t understand. How are Terrans bad guys? *confuzzlement growning*

In the first Starcraft game, the Terran Confederacy is in a civil war.
https://starcraft.fandom.com/wiki/Arcturus_Mengsk
https://starcraft.fandom.com/wiki/Terran_Confederacy
https://starcraft.fandom.com/wiki/Sons_of_Korhal
https://starcraft.fandom.com/wiki/Alpha_Squadron

In the game, Terran characters like Duke and Jim Raynor are good guys, whereas Terran characters like Arcturus Mengsk are bad guys. Mengsk seems like a good guy at first, but he turns out to be using Psi Emitters to make the Zerg attack or show up in certain places and he has this policy of nuking entire planets. Mengsk betrays Jim Raynor and is successful in overthrowing the Confederacy and establishing the Terran Dominion in its place. At least, I am fairly sure that's the plot.

Anyway, SCV doesn't make any sense for a bulletproof claim, as they're your basic grunt worker units and one of the easiest units to kill. It makes sense as a fake-claim in a game where all the named roles are already taken, but it'd be vanilla town or some sort of enabler role in my mind.

Okay thanks. I’ll check it out and my informed flavour claim, is none of those.

[AlmostNancy]

What I call it, was not allowing you to get away with misrepping me - intentionally or unintentionally.

Misrepping?

I didn't even use words in that post; just quoted posts that were contrary to your assessment because I remembered those were his most recent read progression. I call that a correction, not a misrepresentation.

You made it look, like I had no basis for that read, not that it was earlier in his ISO, so I proved with the quotes, that it wasn’t made up.

[AlmostNancy]

Wait hold on are you saying we're missing a nk?

Oh

Oh damn

Hmm it's possible

It's also possible

there's an infested terran with a gun

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'd not even considered the possibility of a kill having been prevented because 3 killers n1 is absurd and creature didn't die by PGO

Wrt the bolded. Come again?

Zerg had the ability to infest Terran units and turn them into essentially zombie Zerg units. An infested terran has the ability to use guns instead of claws.

The flavors thus far have all been obviously good guys in the lore and the medic had an obvious correlation with the role so I'm pretty against flavor claiming.

I’m pretty sure this game isn’t bastard though.

[AlmostNancy]

VOTE: performer

I don't understand how crumbing scv flavor could possibly allude to being a tpr

But I could see it being a scum train of thought

Also I don't think anyone here has played it enough to immediately recognise the butter my biscuit allusion, and I say that as someone who has every achievement and used to commentate sc2 esports

Why?

It seems more likely to be something scum would try to concoct as a crumb than one planned to confirm a claim to me

Well town bp, isn’t a common role.

[AlmostNancy]

VOTE: performer

I don't understand how crumbing scv flavor could possibly allude to being a tpr

But I could see it being a scum train of thought

Also I don't think anyone here has played it enough to immediately recognise the butter my biscuit allusion, and I say that as someone who has every achievement and used to commentate sc2 esports

I don't get the reference.
But I haven't played any of Starcraft 2.
Actually
Should I play it for the plot/story missions??


VOTE: Performer

I'm cool with this.

Why is his claim more likely to come from scum than town? You would be able to explain that better than anyone else here, I hope?

I don't understand why you (repeatedly? I thought I saw another instance at least) say he's the only one here who knows the lore when I've been discussing it as well and mentioned that I have every achievement in the game o_o I mean commentating it might not mean much to you but I played and watched the game enough to be essentially a sportscaster for professional competitive starcraft 2

Okay, I didn’t know that. I saw Varsoon make a few in depth posts about it, so I directed it to him.

[AlmostNancy]

^notice how hard Nauci is working to save Performer

You think they’re linked?

[AlmostNancy]

so the groupscum kill last night was probably on Creature I guess..? does NKA get us anywhere here? I really can't think of anyone but I can feel my interest fading and I want to stop that

Analysis of NKA would help me

Everyone: who do you think tried to kill who and why? Even wild speculation is fine.

People are assuming bp SK but we haven’t ruled out odd night scumdoc as a possibility.

[AlmostNancy]

In a 15p game a mislynch today could result in lylo tomorrow

How come you're not trying to game solve today, xtoxm? I had you even as a town lean yesterday because I thought you did put in some work but it feels like you've sat back a lot today flying under the radar

We could have LYLO tomorrow? Already?

[AlmostNancy]

I don't think there's any indication from creature's regular posting that he was crumbing

But his rvs entrance claimed survivor so maybe that was enough of a crumb/motivation

@krazy

would an ascetic or ninja modifier affect being shot at by a pgo?

I think I'm still at the point where I don't want to reconsider Shoshin, Nauci or skitter unless we're like Direly Fucked because those three are town. Shoshin blasted her scumrange sod1 and has stayed outside of it imo. Nauci is also feeling outside of her scumrange; the Rel kull could have like hypothetically happened from a faction she is not a part of I guess? so maybe that mechclear is moot but via play I don't think I ever had a legitimate reason to be suspicious of her and Rel's appeal to us to stop being dumb and bad was.. terrific

skitter is the first townblock member I'm wrong on but I'm still not feeling wrong; after gerrymandering shadow government democracy mafia I've read her correctly like 3 times in a row after a bit of work and using the same tells I've been working with recently I don't feel like I'm wrong here at all.

which puts like 3-5 non-town players in:
Keyser Söze
Xtoxm
Mewtaph
Mitillos
AlmostNancy
Kokichi Oma
Varsoon
Performer

I'm going to try and work on a more bottom heavy readlist. I just tried reading Perf's iso again and like..there is stuff in there I'd be genuinely impressed to see coming from scum!Perf... I think he's been shoved down my readlist due to townreads in higher tiers and I really need to reset this

*smdh at you. sigh*

[AlmostNancy]

I think I'm still at the point where I don't want to reconsider Shoshin, Nauci or skitter unless we're like Direly Fucked because those three are town. Shoshin blasted her scumrange sod1 and has stayed outside of it imo. Nauci is also feeling outside of her scumrange; the Rel kull could have like hypothetically happened from a faction she is not a part of I guess? so maybe that mechclear is moot but via play I don't think I ever had a legitimate reason to be suspicious of her and Rel's appeal to us to stop being dumb and bad was.. terrific

skitter is the first townblock member I'm wrong on but I'm still not feeling wrong; after gerrymandering shadow government democracy mafia I've read her correctly like 3 times in a row after a bit of work and using the same tells I've been working with recently I don't feel like I'm wrong here at all.

which puts like 3-5 non-town players in:
Keyser Söze
Xtoxm
Mewtaph
Mitillos
AlmostNancy
Kokichi Oma
Varsoon
Performer

I'm going to try and work on a more bottom heavy readlist. I just tried reading Perf's iso again and like..there is stuff in there I'd be genuinely impressed to see coming from scum!Perf... I think he's been shoved down my readlist due to townreads in higher tiers and I really need to reset this

i would find it very comical if perf gets away with that hammer and we lynch me instead. like hysterically funny. please do it.

With so many people playing this badly with wtf lolreads, nothing would honestly surprise me at this point.

[AlmostNancy]

Back.

@Nauci: No change. Performer is still scum, but now he's flailing and reaching, trying to find some way to get out of his current predicament. Varsoon's unannounced L-1 is scummy too. His blasé attitude about it potentially being the hammer is not great, either. On the other hand, being overgamed is a thing, so... I can at least see the possibility of it being merely anti-town (which is still bad).

@Performer: Kokichi is probably scum. After that, not sure. Maybe Varsoon? Maybe Xtoxm? Or AlNan? I'll have to reread some ISOs. Also, you keep saying you don't OMGUS because you don't vote someone just for voting you: that's not what OMGUS is. Or, at the very least, it's not how it manifests, because virtually nobody is enough of an idiot to say "you are voting me, therefore you must be scum", and actually mean it. We keep accusing you of OMGUS, because of a pattern of behaviour; specifically, you seem to generally find scum in those who scumread you, and generally townread those who townread you.

@worst: This game has been very active. 6 hours is not the narrow gap that it would be in most games. That hammer was opportunistic, because had N_M decided to claim, we would all probably have moved to either Performer or Xtoxm (or Kokichi at an outside chance), given the previous wagons.

Has anyone in the history of mafia, ever gotten an informed role as scum?

Because that really wouldn’t make a lot of sense.

[AlmostNancy]

There will be a mafia faction, they will have daytalk.
There may be at least one third party role

this sounds better

Does 1 3P make it multiball? Or maybe I’m confusing multiball with normal?

I mean, technically multiball refers to multiple informed teams - as in more than 1 scum team. If a game followed strict nrg guidelines, then that would be the definition gone under. This isn't a normal game though, it's a themed game so nrg guidelines aren't necessarily followed.

Role PMs have multiball/generic wording and the opening post says there is ~a~ mafia faction with daytalk so I feel like we're dealing with maybe mafia + SK

but irrelephant, as w Creature, was shot, so if the Zerg is a faction either they don't have a nightkill or they didn't kill last night...?

I'm saying it's probably something like

Evil Terrans

kill on Odd Nights with Bullets.
Zerg kill on Even Nights with Claws.
SK could be Protoss?

I'm not saying we're missing a kill, but that I think the different factions have a rotating kill with different flavor.
I also think that if there is an SK, they probably are bulletproof and shot our PGO.

So, you don’t think there could possibly be an odd night scumdoc in the setup?

“Evil Terrans”? I thought Terrans are supposed to be the good guys? *confused*

Iirc, there are Terrans who are evil but they have to be infested by Zerg. Terrans are typically the good guys

Just realized something.

Was thinking over and over about the "no ninja" speculation from mitil. Starting to wonder if he is ascetic. Then, that makes sense since I am a town bp , so that creates wifom from the mod.

So, if there exists an ascetic - or even some sort of a scum bp along with town bp, that makes sense .
Mitil mentioned no ninja, and if he was ascetic scum or ascetic sk - that would be something plausible. Then I could see the claim of no ninja being possible.

There's likely a scum bp or scum ascetic somewhere, who killed irrel on n1.

want to hear his reply when he returns, because I have way too many scumreads.

Ninja is way more powerful than ascetic though?

Ascetic can be implemented into a setup for balance reasons and could be negative utility for town . As far as Ninja goes, that means no investigative can latch onto that role, if that role did something.

In terms of mitil - my theory is that he mentioned no ninja to get town credit d1. During n2, 2 kills happened, with one on the pgo of all people.

Add into that my role of town bp, I figured there could be a scum/sk bp OR scum ascetic/ sk ascetic. Otherwise why would irrel flip green with creat who flipped green with an even-night ability? Makes no sense. That means the scum/sk survived and killed irrel.

Because bp OR ascetic wouldn't need to worry about pgo. Why on earth they chose irrel of all people, that is downright confusing . Because if I weren't town here - and a50 would attest to this - I would choose a50 or tw based on who I knew. Like they'd be dead on n1 , guaranteed in the world of sk/scum perf. No offense to irrel

You’re saying that if you were scum, us or tw would be dead. Why?

Because imo a50/tw are the biggest threats .[/b{
-----------

@vars it's a real claim of town bp. I agree it's very cool that krazy thought of that and it does cause wifom insanity, but I'm not surprised as that's something a lot of game creators implement.

A) You just pretty much repeated the exact same thing.

Which means, you didn’t answer my question.

B) In what world are tw and us, ever w/w here?

[AlmostNancy]

VOTE: Key

I kind of think both are scummy. Why is Key a better vote than Performer. Because of the claim?

[AlmostNancy]

ok guys i just had a really tinfoily idea that might be total bs but it makes sense in my head rn

varsoon said that the zerg mind control humans to do their bidding. what if the zerg is scum/sk and that is their ability, to control a terran player and have them perform the kill.
so a zerg mind controlled creature to kill irre and then creature got pgo'd

That would be wild.

But what you’re forgetting is that Creature was Even night vig, not Odd night, so that theory is impossible.

[AlmostNancy]

why are you complaining about people lynching you over perf when you arent voting perf yourself mew?

Okay, yup. Now I can only phone post while tired while skitter can obviously come up with something especially if they give themselves a 5000 word directive to follow in every response post. So I'll keep it short and sweet - if they can't answer that question without loading it with a bunch of BS, I see no reason for me to be anything but continually apathetic about the game state.

Xtoxm has a good point. Why aren’t you voting Performer if you think he’s scummy?

[AlmostNancy]

In short, Key's scum because he's more passive, more non-committal, less analytical, and less aggressive than he is as town. The main points:

1. He's doing the typical scum thing of popping in just enough to avoid too much suspicion. As town, Key is usually actively engaged in moving the game forward with aggressive questioning. As scum, Key tends to be much less aggressive. This game fits his scum meta when it comes to levels of engagement, passivity, and aggression.

2. He's more non-committal than I've ever seen him as town. He constantly posts "maybe X but maybe not" posts, which don't actually take a clear position about anything. He constantly calls things "interesting" instead of taking a meaningful position about them (this is actually a scum tell for a surprisingly large number of players, specifically calling lots of things "interesting," "weird," "odd," etc., - probably an unconscious attempt to avoid scum telling by revealing as little information as possible about one's perspective). The point is that Key's not taking clear positions in the way he usually do as town.

3. He's been speculating about third party or "solo scum" more than feels natural for town. For example, rather than push on Creature as mafia, he pushes Creature as "third party." When he says that Performer's "probably town," he notes that Performer "could be solo scum." It feels like Key's looking for third party rather than mafia, which suggests he's operating from an informed perspective about who the mafia are. While town sometimes look for third party, or think a player looks like third party, it's rare that town start speculating about multiple players as third party while calling those players "probably town."

4. He's been pushing a scum agenda by trying to challenge our townreads from taking hold. He pushed on Irrelephant (obvious town), the worst (obvious town), and then supported both Varsoon/Xtom for questioning the early townreads. This is out of character for town Key, who in both games I've seen gave out lots of early townreads and didn't show anything close to the level of irrational paranoia he's had this game about early townreads. In American Presidents, we had just as many early townreads as this game and Key was one of the players giving them out. In schadd's game, same. What's different in this game? If anything, players were town telling harder than in those other games. Yet Key's reacting differently? That's a sign of a change in perspective & win condition.

VOTE: Key

[AlmostNancy]

Really important shit if I die tonight, but I'm sure you numbskulls will completely not listen to me:

Performer is very likely scum with that claim.
If Kokichi isn't confirmed as town, he is confirmed as scum.
Look really really close at what I've posted today. It'll serve as your roadmap to scum.
Don't let this be another TAZ.

You think Performer should be today’s lynch?

[AlmostNancy]

3. He's been speculating about third party or "solo scum" more than feels natural for town. For example, rather than push on Creature as mafia, he pushes Creature as "third party." When he says that Performer's "probably town," he notes that Performer "could be solo scum." It feels like Key's looking for third party rather than mafia, which suggests he's operating from an informed perspective about who the mafia are. While town sometimes look for third party, or think a player looks like third party, it's rare that town start speculating about multiple players as third party while calling those players "probably town.".

I have been hunting group scum/mafia Shoshin.

But many actions, I.e if we look at Performer I don’t see as group scum: the early quickhammer, the ease of his wagon today (I personally like his claim as town, a bulletproof in this setup in rational because of the many killing powers (groupmafia, vig? other scum) plus the linking of him and Relly’s death is lazy, I could see why groupscum would want him out the picture today.

Plus, there is a real fear that Koki desperately wanted to get to N2 to perform their even night scum power: I am fearing 3 deaths tonight.

Why would there be 3 deaths tonight rather than 2?

[AlmostNancy]

The guys who I want dead: Mit, Koki & Mew, I wouldn’t bank on being a gamesolve, but I feel like there is scum in here.

...and Skitter is a town lean read I feel dirty about. They are actually a green read I would actually lynch today if that makes sense.

No, it actually doesn’t make sense. Why would you lynch a townread?

[Mitillos]

Before anyone asks, that unannounced L-1 by AlNan is also scummy.

@Key: you should probably claim, in case someone decides to silence you pre-emptively.

[the worst]

If everyone who called an unannounced L-1 scummy this game would explain why it's scummy I'd be such a happy ducky

[Mitillos]

@worst: Because whenever an L-1 goes unannounced, it gives the opportunity to scum to hammer and go "Oh, I didn't realise that was hammer, whoops". And given that Performer is still not lynched, I'm pretty sure that in such a scenario, scum would just get away with said hammer.