Newbie 1907 - game over!!

[u r a person 2]

gutreads
DE/GL are either strong town or active scum.

I'm sorry to keep pestering you, but can you please go a little further than this?

"I believe that DE is either strong town or active scum because..."

[Scantius]

Read the first word of the post.

[u r a person 2]

yeah i get that the reads are gut reads, but you aren't gut reading them as active scum or strong town. so what makes you think that?

[the worst]

vote count 1.04

foodcoats

(1)

L-4

: Elements

YyottaCat

(1)

L-4

: Scantius

Elements

(1)

L-4

: PvtUrist

Scantius

(2)

L-3

: GuiltyLion YyottaCat,

u r a person 2

(0)

L-5

:

PvtUrist

(0)

L-5

:

saad

(0)

L-5

:

Dongempire

(2)

L-3

: foodcoats, u r a person 2

GuiltyLion

(1)

L-4

: Dongempire

not voting

: saad

This phase will end in (expired on 2018-12-29 16:30:00) or sooner if a majority lynch is achieved.

mod notes:

- quack

reading this vote count

Spoiler:

the worst

¹ (2)²

L-3

³ : PenguinPower, a goose<sup>4

1</sup> the player who this line of the vote count refers to.
² the number of votes currently on this player.
³ the number of votes this player is away from being lynched (e.g. L-5 = 5 votes from a lynch; L-3 = 3 votes away from a lynch; L-1 = one vote away from a lynch, etc.)
⁴ list of the players who are voting the player in question.

[u r a person 2]

Mate, I know it must have been a little rough being scum read right away, but it feels like since then you've become more reserved in how you're answering questions. I think you're town, and we're going to need to work together and i'm trying to get you to be a little more free flowing with your comments. never know what diamond you might unearth, or what little comment inspires a thought process in someone else that leads to them solving the game

[Scantius]

Mate, I know it must have been a little rough being scum read right away, but it feels like since then you've become more reserved in how you're answering questions. I think you're town, and we're going to need to work together and i'm trying to get you to be a little more free flowing with your comments. never know what diamond you might unearth, or what little comment inspires a thought process in someone else that leads to them solving the game

Making reads and analyzing posts is what a strong town does. However, many experienced players actually emulate this play as scum and do it naturally as town, resulting in making them hard to read without many posts or some other information (claimed inspects and flips). There were three players who exemplified this in my home community named hawkie, Darnell, and justinsmom, all of which had scum plays very similar to their town plays and were strong as both factions.

[Scantius]

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/m ... s.3644324/
A sample game of mines.

[u r a person 2]

that's good. i like that. keep explaining your thought process at that level and this game should go great.

I agree with you on GL. I think he's projecting town, and I respect his game enough that I'm wary of being mislead.

What about DE, though? He has two posts, so I'm not sure it's fair to call him active anything.

As FC pointed out, he agreed with GL when scum reading you, but did not move his vote from GL (an rvs vote) to you. Do you think that's alignment indicative? Do you think he could be scum trying to blend in with what the majority of town are saying?

[YyottaCat]

u r a person 2, "distraction" is a distraction itself

[Scantius]

DE's posts generally have a towny feel.

VOTE: YyottaCat
I hope you're having fun being lynched.

From everyone's entrances so far, I wouldn't have expected you to be the one worrying about pressuring people early.

Could you please explain the thought process behind this post?

URAP2, do you believe there is inconsistency between Scantius aggressively threatening to lynch Yyotta and arguing against our wagon on saad? Do you believe this is scum-indicative?

Well isn't this an imitation.

No; scum would most likely bandwagon in this case.

[YyottaCat]

Scantius, remember that saying nothing is very dangerous

[u r a person 2]

No; scum would most likely bandwagon in this case.

Interesting. I'm going to think about whether I agree with this.

On another note, I'm going to push hard to lynch yyotta at end of day if her play is consistent.

[PvtUrist]

@Yyotta nice to see you interacting with us more this time around. How do you currently feel about URAP2 and Scantius (St)?

[PvtUrist]

@FC no full drunk tunneling from me anymore (hopefully) but I'll still be keeping an eye on you, diplomat

[GuiltyLion]

it's a bit late here so not too much detail from me right now but I think Scantius' follow up posts have been good, I see where he's coming from

foodcoats feels like he could be scum

@FC what do you think about scantius?

Not much. We don't have a lot to go on at the moment. I do find this a little scummy:

I would like to point out that pressure can be an effective way to scumhunt but can also be an easy way for scum to appear to scumhunt.

Town needs to apply pressure to get better reads, and the scum will come along with that strategy in order to make themselves appear to be town. It's largely an irrelevant statement, but I feel it is a bit of an apologetic for doing nothing. But that said, I overall feel like Scantius's posts so far are NAI, and the power of the flavour on the Yyotta vote actually leans town for me.

Here, he says he finds a Scantius post scummy, but overall his posts are NAI, but also the power of the initial RVS vote leans town? That's three totally disjointed reads on one player in three sentences, I don't follow the thought process and it doesn't feel natural. Seems like he's trying to be as flexible as possible with how he wants to read Scantius later.

I'm personally more interested in Dongempire's answers to my questions at this point. It's criticism of Scantius was wishy-washy and shady with no follow-through. I'm interested to see what Dong has to say about that, especially an explanation as to why it did not move its vote somewhere more interesting when it seems to believe that wagoning is beneficial to town.

may be just tone clash on my part here but this section feels like he wants to paint Dongempire in a negative light more than actually engage with him. The way he says "I'm interested" twice in a row feels stiff - like he's justifying what he's doing to the rest of us instead of talking directly to Dongempire - and altogether it gives me an over-explainy vibe.

foodcoats - why is scum!Dongempire more likely not to move his vote "somewhere more interesting" than town!Dongempire?

[GuiltyLion]

VOTE: foodcoats

[foodcoats]

Here, he says he finds a Scantius post scummy, but overall his posts are NAI, but also the power of the initial RVS vote leans town? That's three totally disjointed reads on one player in three sentences, I don't follow the thought process and it doesn't feel natural. Seems like he's trying to be as flexible as possible with how he wants to read Scantius later.

My comment about the Yyotta vote was specifically about this:

I hope you're having fun being lynched.

I don't think scum!Scantius uses this much vehemence in a random vote. I'm usually a trends reader, but I have to go into the weeds a bit here as there's not much to go on. (I know they posted a bunch in the night so I'll have to go back and do a proper ISO.)

I don't understand why you find my lack of certainty to be scummy. I don't know anyone's alignment right now, and the only way I can come up with a solid basis to slot someone as town or scum is by looking at all the information available and coming up with the best answer based on my reasoning. Do you think there are specific elements of Scantius's ISO that I should read more black-and-white, and that's why you think I'm hedging or whatever? How is reading some details as scummy, some as townie, and others as NAI scummy in any way at all?

I'm personally more interested in Dongempire's answers to my questions at this point. It's criticism of Scantius was wishy-washy and shady with no follow-through. I'm interested to see what Dong has to say about that, especially an explanation as to why it did not move its vote somewhere more interesting when it seems to believe that wagoning is beneficial to town.

may be just tone clash on my part here but this section feels like he wants to paint Dongempire in a negative light more than actually engage with him. The way he says "I'm interested" twice in a row feels stiff - like he's justifying what he's doing to the rest of us instead of talking directly to Dongempire - and altogether it gives me an over-explainy vibe.

foodcoats - why is scum!Dongempire more likely not to move his vote "somewhere more interesting" than town!Dongempire?

I think my line on Dongempire is similar to the one you're taking on me. Dong keeps all the options open regarding Scantius here. It pings me that Dong would bother to shade Scantius...

and do absolutely nothing else

. That's what I find scummy. You mentioned having played with Dong before, though. How does this play measure up against its usual style?

[Donempire]

@FC what do you think about scantius?

Not much. We don't have a lot to go on at the moment. I do find this a little scummy:

I would like to point out that pressure can be an effective way to scumhunt but can also be an easy way for scum to appear to scumhunt.

Town needs to apply pressure to get better reads, and the scum will come along with that strategy in order to make themselves appear to be town. It's largely an irrelevant statement, but I feel it is a bit of an apologetic for doing nothing. But that said, I overall feel like Scantius's posts so far are NAI, and the power of the flavour on the Yyotta vote actually leans town for me.

@Scantius

, have you played with Yyotta before? Did that influence your vote on her?

I'm personally more interested in Dongempire's answers to my questions at this point. It's criticism of Scantius was wishy-washy and shady with no follow-through. I'm interested to see what Dong has to say about that, especially an explanation as to why it did not move its vote somewhere more interesting when it seems to believe that wagoning is beneficial to town.

VOTE: Dongempire

It is beneficial to town. I wasnt able to put too much thoight into thr thread because i was ill, so i skimmed over and gave my thoughts. I wasnt suspicious of scan, so i didnt bother wagoning what i believed to be a dead end. In case you are wondering, i believe he is town from his posts. I just wanted an explanation for 22.

Gonna read the full thread at home.

[Donempire]

I didnt shade him
Reread my post please and explain what you got from that

[foodcoats]

On another note, I'm going to push hard to lynch yyotta at end of day if her play is consistent.

That's interesting. Why? So far Yyotta's play is more or less flipped from our last game with her, and is more in line with what I read of her play in other games where she was town. Do you think scum!Yyotta learned from newbie 1905 and is being overly active in response to being lynched for lurking? Are there specific pieces of Yyotta's ISO that strike you as scummy?

[foodcoats]

I agree with you on GL. I think he's projecting town, and I respect his game enough that I'm wary of being mislead.

I'd like to hear more about this read, URAP. I definitely think GL's attack on me is townie, but your post came before that. One of the things I struggled with last game was teasing apart the IC role from actual alignment. Do you actually townread GL or are you more afraid of a mislynch on a good player?

[foodcoats]

Hey

@Yyotta

. Good to see you again. I like you making all these posts.

Scantius, remember that saying nothing is very dangerous

I feel like Scantius has said a fair bit to defend his position and in debate with you. Are you saying you think his posts aren't saying anything substantial? Otherwise I don't exactly understand this post by you.

Why do you think saying nothing is dangerous?

Obviously you would scumread on me, Scantius, just what I expected. You are far from knowing the point of the vote.

Then explain. You've been avoiding this.

I can't tell you right now, as it will make you aware and the plan of the vote will fail.

I'm curious to know what you mean by the plan of the vote. Can you explain this more? Do you think there is a specific strategy or something that town should use to vote?

[foodcoats]

Also why have people started random voting while we still have over 9 days

I'm interested to hear more from you Elements, so I'm going to ask you some questions someone asked me during my first game of forum mafia... I'm also happy to give my answers if that helps!

• How do you feel about a D1 no lynch?
  
• How do you feel about the Lynch the Lurker strategy?
  
• Do you prefer to have two large wagons at the end of day 1, or several smaller ones?

(The last one isn't super relevant here given the always-only-hammer mechanics, but whatever.)

[Elements]

no lynch day 1 = anti-town
I don't think a D1 lynch on people lurking is a good idea due to lack of information gained both about them and about everyone else after they flip. But on future days trying to pull them out of the woodwork is a good idea but pressuring them with a L-2 or even an L-1 if that wouldn't give mafia a win from a mislynch.
I would prefer 2 large wagons over lots of small ones

[Elements]

as for my reads; i think at most only one out of FC and URAP2 are scum from voting patterns and at most only one from Scan, GL and yyotta are scum