Starcraft Mafia -- Game Over!

[skitter30]

i should be back before deadline tho

[skitter30]

I'll still probably mod but I think I'm awful at the actual game of mafia.
Like particularly game-throwingly bad.

i don't know if my opinion is relevant or important to you, but i dont' think that you're that bad at it

i think you made a mistake and probably outed before you should have, but i don't think it was on the level of game-throwing or anything, and hey, it's a game, and eveyrone makes mistakes or plays suboptimally. i don't think it was the worst thing on the planet you could have done

and now at least we can try to sort out the gunsmith/flavor thing out of this, and it finally helped me get a read on nancy

(sometimes i think you get a little too aggressive for my taste, but it think that's something you try to reign back and not let it get personal, and i don't think you crossed any lines in this game)

[Varsoon]

I'll be around but I've got no conviction.
It annoys me.
I'm town but I don't even read all of everyone's posts.
I skim so much content and generally don't engage or make efforts at game solving.
I like to boast when I luck out on a read but that's all empty showboating.
There's nothing worse than knowing that I'm not doing enough and that other people might lose the game because I can't feel the urgency to commit more.
I feel like I'm awful at analysis.
I get so biased and caught up in 'what-if' scenarios.
And when I do think someone is scum, I'll entrench so hard it ruins the game and hard-flavors everyone's perceptions.
I've been trying to get better but it feels fruitless.
I hate this struggle, being in games but being a liability and a sham.
I hate when I think I have something figured out but everyone else just kinda doesn't agree.
I hate how personally invested I get in games I'm only even half-reading.
I hate how when I get really invested like that, I ad-hom and lash out and bias how I read players.
I think it's never been helpful for town, not once.
I couldn't even tell you all the living players in this game.
I outright forgot Irrelephant was one of the players killed.

I'm sorry to let everyone else down like this.
I won't do it again.

[Varsoon]

I'm bad at playing with others and horrible at solving on my own. I'm not really cut out for it.
I really like mafia. I like this big rhetorical game of trying to solve alignments, find out who your allies really are, etc.
I think it's made needlessly frustrating by multiball, though. That's what really destroys me.
That and setups designed in a way meant to make me come to wrong conclusions.
And it feels like this is all of that.
I can't stand it.

[Varsoon]

A good player is able to grow beyond their faults, trust when they need to, analyze the rhetoric, find scum, obv-town, and lead weaker players.
I don't think I can really do any of that.

[Varsoon]

I tried to get back into the swing with recent newbie games and thought I was making some improvement on those fronts but now that I'm playing in these various other games, I feel absolutely swamped.

Maybe I should just take one game at a time?
I definitely picked up too many.

[Varsoon]

I was feeling tortured over the informational stuff on my role, especially when it felt like Almost Nancy was BLATANTLY fishing for it.
Especially since I literally just came out of TAZ, where we would've probably won if I had just claimed my guilty on NSG.
I fucked up there and I think I fucked up here, too.
Why does this keep happening to me?

[Nauci]

I feel like I've been jerked around so much.
I lowkey hate myself for outting my info.

VOTE: Mewtaph
I really don't like any of the people up for lynch, all for different reasons.
This game is just awful to me.
I'm probably going to quit mafia after this.

Please don't!

I thought you've played very well this game; it's been fun having you around

[Xtoxm]

varsoon you're a great guy. please don't worry about your play. ive played a lot with you and i haven't had a single game with you that i didnt have fun in. and thats the most important part of mafia - to socialise and have fun.

[Krazy]

@mod:

if a player had a killing role, but their kill flavor was *not* bullets, and a gunsmith investigated said player, what result would the gunsmith receive?

Unless I flavored the role to have a gun in some way, a gunsmith would receive a "no gun" result

Do feel free to pm if I miss something

[Nauci]

and now at least we can try to sort out the gunsmith/flavor thing out of this, and it finally helped me get a read on nancy

Yeah I found it quite helpful as well

[Varsoon]

<3
Thank you.
I agree, games should be about fun and not just who wins.
I think when I get too personally involved, they stop being fun for other people.
What bothers me is that I enjoy when I am frustrated enough to be watching the thread like a hawk; at least then I feel engaged and alive, even if I'm pissed off.
I'm going to just try to focus on one game at a time moving forward and see how that goes.
This game and others have really destroyed my confidence.

[Nauci]

I'll be around but I've got no conviction.
It annoys me.
I'm town but I don't even read all of everyone's posts.
I skim so much content and generally don't engage or make efforts at game solving.
I like to boast when I luck out on a read but that's all empty showboating.
There's nothing worse than knowing that I'm not doing enough and that other people might lose the game because I can't feel the urgency to commit more.
I feel like I'm awful at analysis.
I get so biased and caught up in 'what-if' scenarios.
And when I do think someone is scum, I'll entrench so hard it ruins the game and hard-flavors everyone's perceptions.
I've been trying to get better but it feels fruitless.
I hate this struggle, being in games but being a liability and a sham.
I hate when I think I have something figured out but everyone else just kinda doesn't agree.
I hate how personally invested I get in games I'm only even half-reading.
I hate how when I get really invested like that, I ad-hom and lash out and bias how I read players.
I think it's never been helpful for town, not once.
I couldn't even tell you all the living players in this game.
I outright forgot Irrelephant was one of the players killed.

I'm sorry to let everyone else down like this.
I won't do it again.

I don't think you've done really any of the above this game

There were times I could feel your frustration but you were never unreasonable or digging your heels in

[Xtoxm]

i pmed you before this game asking if you wanted to play with me because you are literally one of the most fun people on this site.
making mistakes in play or having an incorrect read sometimes doesnt mean shit. everyone makes mistakes.

[skitter30]

:/

i'm sorry you feel that way
i don't really feel let down by you or that you're a liability, if that helps?

i think your'e really good at figuring out the mechanics side of things and youv'e been super helpful with flavor

and idk just becuase you aren't the best player in the history of the game doesn't mean you shouldn't play or something, everyone can improve in various areas, and everyone makes mistakes

i would def continue playing games with you, if that means anything to you

[skitter30]

I was feeling tortured over the informational stuff on my role, especially when it felt like Almost Nancy was BLATANTLY fishing for it.
Especially since I literally just came out of TAZ, where we would've probably won if I had just claimed my guilty on NSG.
I fucked up there and I think I fucked up here, too.
Why does this keep happening to me?

and i don't think you fucked up here really other

maybe didn't make the most optimal play, but i don't think your choice was really that bad or anything, def not as bad as you seem to think it is

[Nauci]

Varsoon I think you've contributed enormously to my reads this game; I would not have been able to read you/xtoxm/an/shoshin/possibly Keyser if it wasn't for your interactions and info

Which is why I'm seeking out your view of mewtaph

[Nauci]

@mod:

if a player had a killing role, but their kill flavor was *not* bullets, and a gunsmith investigated said player, what result would the gunsmith receive?

Unless I flavored the role to have a gun in some way, a gunsmith would receive a "no gun" result

Do feel free to pm if I miss something

Just so you know

I'm going to have words and popcorn with you post game for throwing in a Duran, nevermind 2

[skitter30]

@mod:

if a player had a killing role, but their kill flavor was *not* bullets, and a gunsmith investigated said player, what result would the gunsmith receive?

Unless I flavored the role to have a gun in some way, a gunsmith would receive a "no gun" result

Do feel free to pm if I miss something

so if zerg don't have 'bullet' flavor than a gunsmith will get a 'no gun' result on them if i'm understanding this correctly
@varsoon, you're told that zerg do not have bullet flavor, correct?

[Varsoon]

Thanks, all of you.
I wanted to play with you folks, too.
I just feel like I really dunced up here.

Yeah, if my posts and death and info can help us towards a win, that'd be awesome. I feel bad because we already lost such powerful roles, and me claiming my info now almost certainly means I won't make it to the later days where I get even better info.

P-EDIT:
I've got a real problem reading Mewtaph's posts. Like I said, they feel really disconnected and artificial.
Mewtaph isn't a presence in this game like they should be.

P-P-EDIT:
I'm just told Zerg exist, not about if their flavor is bullets or not; that's just flavor spec on them literally having scythes and no way to shoot besides poison spores and spikes and exploding things.

[Varsoon]

EBWOP: Scythes for hands*

[Varsoon]

[skitter30]

oh for some reason i vaguely remember you saying when you claimd that they didn't have bullet flavor; i didn't go back to check and i wasn't sure if i was remembering correctly

and hey, it's possible you could have played better, but live and let learn for next time. really don't beat yourself up over it

so if a scum faction does not have 'gun/bullet' kill flavor, the gunsmith is useless to finding them.
and since town prs have several flipped roles with gun/bullet flavor, that would indicate that keyser can get a lot of 'fake' guilties, and (if zerg don't have bullets) no guilties on the zerg

and that makes it feel like a scum role to me, zerg who can find some other gun-flavor faction + town prs
and less likely to be town

of course all of htis is based on the assumption that zerg don't have bullets which i feel is semi-reasonable? idk i know squat about flavor so i coudl well be wrong here

[Xtoxm]

@mod:

if a player had a killing role, but their kill flavor was *not* bullets, and a gunsmith investigated said player, what result would the gunsmith receive?

Unless I flavored the role to have a gun in some way, a gunsmith would receive a "no gun" result

Do feel free to pm if I miss something

im going to comment here just to note that my earlier argument was incorrect in light of this information.
i stand corrected.
and therefore your argument against keyser does have a little more weight.
however for setup spec reasons i still would not be comfortable lynching him at this stage.

[Mitillos]

@Varsoon: I disagree with you and the others: I don't think you made a mistake. Is there even anyone scumreading you? Honestly, I doubt that you'd have survived long either way (and I mean that as a compliment), so giving us your info good and early was probably the optimal play here.