Starcraft Mafia -- Game Over!

[skitter30]

I'm not sure what is even being said here. "It feels like I'm town but then probably not?"

idk
my gut says you aren't the right lynch rn and that you aren't groupscum, even though objectively you've been kinda scummy

i try to listen to my gut, especially when deciding who to lynch, because it's sometimes better at figuring out what's right than i am consciously

ie during lylo i pretty much always listen to my gut when deciding where to vote and sometimes voting person a feels wrong so i just don't vote them; this method, although imprecise and not really something i can articulate, works very well for me; i think i've gotten xylo wrong like once since i've started playing

and that same gut that tells me who's the wrong vote in lylo says you're not the right vote rn

don't think i can explain better

despite that you're kinda objectively scummy so like i won't complain too much i guess if you get lynched because you prob need to be resolved through lylo

i don't think i'll vote you but like i won't prevent it from happening

gut basically
idk how to articulate this sort of thing better beyond 'it feels kinda wrong to vote there'

[Xtoxm]

My thoughts on claims/roles:

Spoiler:

I think most players care too much about keeping their roles hidden. I don't think it hurts towns to get multiple early claims from scummy players. I also don't think it hurts to get early claims from townies when those claims are helpful to sorting alignments (e.g. Varsoon's information, miller claims, etc.) or to avoiding catastrophe (e.g. Irrelephant's PGO claim). Yes, roles sometimes help confirm players as town (e.g. vig shooting mafia, doctor preventing a nightkill), but competent scum also fake these sorts of behaviors (e.g. forfeiting nightkill to fakeclaim doctor/bulletproof). I don't see why players place so much value in roles when they don't help nearly as much as people seem to think. From what I've seen, they often lead to mislynches (scum love to push mislynches through role analysis).

I also think most players put too much weight into investigation. I've seen scum fake investigative results in most of my theme games, mini or large. I've seen town get faulty results in half my theme games. I've seen town get mislynched because of faulty guilty results. I've seen scum get cleared from faulty innocents. The reality is that you never know if the investigation has been screwed with by a redirector, bus driver, lawyer, framer, etc. The benefit of investigations from my perspective is to corroborate behavioral reads (e.g. in RC's recent game, an investigative result corroborated strong townreads on NSG and scumreads on Nico), or to encourage players to reevaluate someone you've been townreading (i.e. to combat confirmation bias). I'd never lynch someone because of a guilty, nor clear someone because of an innocent investigation.

I also think the players talking about "game-throwing" in this game because we outed Varsoon's information are overreacting. We outed some information. So what? If he dies, he dies. If he doesn't, he doesn't. The benefit of outing him is that we're getting stronger townreads on his slot, as well as valuable behavioral reactions from Nancy. From my perspective, that's much more useful than keeping his information hidden. I feel more comfortable townreading both him & Nancy after this, which means we're refining our reads in productive ways due to Varsoon's play. It also hedges against the risk that he dies before he outs the information. I see this as a win-win.

And i've had games where i've had to drag townies kicking and screaming to a win because they didn't want to lynch real scum that I had a guilty on because "they are so obviously town". Truth is most people just aren't that good at reading others and results are far more reliable.

[skitter30]

like it's the sort of thing i listen to when trying to decide where to vote in lylo
and the sort of thing that told me not_mafia was town yesterday even though i couldn't explain it

i'll prob get a lot of flak if he ever flips scum but it doesn't feel liek the right lynch rn

[Shoshin]

I understand, Skitter.

[skitter30]

lol i guess i feel like i have to put a lot of effort into trying to explain the things i don't know how to explain to get my point across, cuz most of the time i can write a ten page essay detailing exactly why i came to some conclusion and i can't really do that for my gut, it just kinda is and i try to listen to it nonetheless

[Shoshin]

I actually think I've found a solid scum tell on Performer. Looking through meta to confirm.

[Shoshin]

Performer, can you link me your most recent town/scum games?

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=77190

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=77146

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=77228

Why'd you only link town games? Can you link multiple scum games please?

[Shoshin]

Nauci, when you're around, I'd like to talk with you about Performer's meta.

[Shoshin]

Mitil voted me for instance, and provided a case - I still townread him.

Performer/Mitillos aren't scum together. Unlikely that this interaction comes from partners.

[Nauci]

Be around in maybe 20-30 minutes

[Nauci]

My roommate broke my $550 vacuum by vacuuming up a fucking pen ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ

But I managed to fix it thank god

[Varsoon]

Wow that really
sucks

[Performer]

Performer, can you link me your most recent town/scum games?

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=77190

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=77146

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=77228

Why'd you only link town games? Can you link multiple scum games please?

Ive been in very few games where I rolled scum this year. This is 1 that I could find .

viewtopic.php?t=76388&f=2&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... er_sort=Go

[Shoshin]

Performer, what're your current reads?

[Nauci]

Both performer scum games I read he was lynched d1 The other was a 19 page newbie

[Performer]

@nauci ah the newbie one - that one was a very unusual one so town had some luck in that one. Wasn't foreseeing a lynch on either of us in that newbie game
The quick hammer came from town too
Fun times .

There's at least two scum in Key, Mew, Mitillos, Xtom, or

Performer

.

Key should be investigating within this group

if he isn't lynched today.

I agree with this.

xtox has become a null read instead of an sr. Keys has dropped in read for me but as a claimed investigative, Keys should be able to help narrow down the pool in here - and we could sort as time goes on, if it's a fake claim.

I've got AN , Nauci , tw as tr.

[Nauci]

you've created a situation that is very apathy inducing for anyone outside the "loltownblock". which scum have probably infiltrated anyway.

"You" as in the whole group, or specifically me?

I really dislike this characterize that having strong town reads on players who have worked hard to clearly town post is a bad situation, or that the half of the game that's not participating is somehow motivated by this.

When faced with not being town read, everyone's win condition is to change this and make more effort to be sortable as well as to sort. It shouldn't be my or anyone else's fault if someone loses motivation to come across as town but that of the poster.

Shoshin, tw, and I have all put in tons of work this game to game solve. The remaining pool of players can't all be scum, so it should be everyone's job to sort and be more sortable from there.

This post was kinda swimming around in my back of my head annoying me and I felt like I needed to address it

[Shoshin]

Why aren't you townreading me, Performer?

[Performer]

Skitter has also been hard to sort and even had no thoughts on Keys after 100+ pages, which is just unreal if town.

and she continued being hard to read . Wasn't aware of her stance on me until recently, which was ALSO strange .

[Performer]

and the fact that you townread skitter at the time , didn't sound right .

[Performer]

I still think the mafia lies within Key, Mew, Xtom, Mitillos, or Performer.

Why are you townreading the folks out of the pool?

[Shoshin]

Performer, you didn't answer why you aren't townreading me...

[AlmostNancy]

It isn’t Duran.

Why did you do that Varsoon? Why?

Why didn’t you ask me if the name I’d been given. had a D in it or something?

Then I could have put your mind at ease and you wouldn’t have claimed.

Because it'd out that I'm Duran to the

Zerg Duran

who wants to kill me.

Zerg? *confused*. Don’t you mean infested terran? I thought Zergs were monsters who couldn’t do that?

So, while I’m pretty sure my two informed flavours are town/terran and scum, now I don’t know whether or not scum=infested terran or zerg?

[AlmostNancy]

@Skitter: Yeah, you're pretty much right in all your conclusions you asked me about.

@Mitilos: I learn if Zerg took a killing action, regardless of if it is a success or not.

@Varsoon, I’m really sorry I lost it on you earlier. I think I was more in shock then anything else. And I did what I did, because of your post. I just don’t know how we win this now. :/

If you're town, then we lose, and it's thanks to the mod designing a setup that's got this much hard swing and screw for town claiming.
It's also thanks to my particular combination of trash history with roles like this one.

No, don’t say that. I don’t want to lose 2 town games back to back.

[AlmostNancy]

Right then.
So what do you propose, Xtoxm?
Do we settle on one of Performer, Mewtaph, or Keyser?
Or do we go all in on the gamble that AlmostNancy is the role my role warns us about?
Or do we do something altogether different?

We have 2 days. We are headed into a holiday weekend. Let's figure this out now.

Varsoon, I swear to you I’m not lying to you. You were in Overkill 2. Can’t you tell I’m town here?

Whoever your role PM warned you about, it wasn’t me because We 100% do not have Duran as our informed flavour claim.