Newbie 1907 - game over!!

[YyottaCat]

I feel like fc and Elements are scum partners. It explains fc's townread on elements, and why elements put fc at the bottom. VOTE: elements

[YyottaCat]

Wait I forgot to unvote.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: elements

[the worst]

You don't need to unvote before changing your vote; just make it clear who you'd like to change your vote to and that's fine.

Vc incoming (missed my pagetop!)

[Elements]

It explains fc's townread on elements, and why elements put fc at the bottom. VOTE: elements

how does it explain why i put fc at the bottom of a contextless list?

[the worst]

vote count 1.10

foodcoats

(0)

L-5

:

YyottaCat

(1)

L-4

: Elements

Elements

(3)

L-2

: u r a person 2, GuiltyLion, YyottaCat

Scantius

(1)

L-4

: foodcoats

u r a person 2

(2)

L-3

: Dongempire, sheepsaysmeep,

PvtUrist

(0)

L-5

:

sheepsaysmeep

(0)

L-5

:

Dongempire

(0)

L-5

:

GuiltyLion

(0)

L-5

:

not voting

: Scantius, PvtUrist

This phase will end in (expired on 2018-12-29 16:30:00) or sooner if a majority lynch is achieved.

mod notes:

- I'll be flying back home later today so will disappear for about 7-8 hours; I'll inform everyone when this happens and try to address any prods beforehand.
- quack

reading this vote count

Spoiler:

the worst

¹ (2)²

L-3

³ : PenguinPower, a goose<sup>4

1</sup> the player who this line of the vote count refers to.
² the number of votes currently on this player.
³ the number of votes this player is away from being lynched (e.g. L-5 = 5 votes from a lynch; L-3 = 3 votes away from a lynch; L-1 = one vote away from a lynch, etc.)
⁴ list of the players who are voting the player in question.

[Elements]

GL
Don't
Sheep
Pct
Urap2
Scan
Yyotta
Fc

don't = dong
pctt = pvt

if you haddn't figured that out, mobile editing is annoying and hard

[YyottaCat]

It explains fc's townread on elements, and why elements put fc at the bottom. VOTE: elements

how does it explain why i put fc at the bottom of a contextless list?

It might look like you are against fc, but in reality you might just be trying to perform trickery.

[the worst]

vote count 1.11

foodcoats

(0)

L-5

:

YyottaCat

(1)

L-4

: Elements

Elements

(3)

L-2

: u r a person 2, GuiltyLion, YyottaCat

Scantius

(1)

L-4

: foodcoats

u r a person 2

(2)

L-3

: Dongempire, sheepsaysmeep,

PvtUrist

(0)

L-5

:

sheepsaysmeep

(0)

L-5

:

Dongempire

(0)

L-5

:

GuiltyLion

(0)

L-5

:

not voting

: Scantius, PvtUrist

This phase will end in (expired on 2018-12-29 16:30:00) or sooner if a majority lynch is achieved.

mod notes:

- prodding u r a person 2.
- I'm about to fly for ~2 hours; I'll then be available for a while before the aforementioned long flight. Stay safe. <3
- quack

reading this vote count

Spoiler:

the worst

¹ (2)²

L-3

³ : PenguinPower, a goose<sup>4

1</sup> the player who this line of the vote count refers to.
² the number of votes currently on this player.
³ the number of votes this player is away from being lynched (e.g. L-5 = 5 votes from a lynch; L-3 = 3 votes away from a lynch; L-1 = one vote away from a lynch, etc.)
⁴ list of the players who are voting the player in question.

[u r a person 2]

Travelling ATM. Phone posting so nothing big from me tonight. FC, I'm assuming that you've figured out what I was talking about with elements by now. Can you give your thoughts on that whole thing now that you understand it.

Also you have as your only scumread because my interaction early with stantius looks like an elaborate method of pocketing him and this bit with questioning elements. Is that a fair representation of your read? Does your understanding of elements' error change this?


Here's where I am at this point. There have been changes

Town circle {GL, stantius}
Town lean {yyotta, dong, urist}

2 scum in {elements, sheep, FC}

And I think the last town in those three is elements because I liked his response to my pointing out his error (I know you didn't like it, GL. I like it enough to be uncertain)

If I'm getting snookered it's by urist

[u r a person 2]

I dunno where I want my vote but I'm dead tired so I'll figure it out tomorrow VOTE: unvote

[u r a person 2]

Actually I think I read his response poorly. Will explain if anyone asks/cares

VOTE: elements

[Elements]

It explains fc's townread on elements, and why elements put fc at the bottom. VOTE: elements

how does it explain why i put fc at the bottom of a contextless list?

It might look like you are against fc, but in reality you might just be trying to perform trickery.

so that string of names is the order they appear in the vote count inverted sans my name. It's interesting you found a way to see that as me being scum especially so soon after GL pointed out the possibility that scum could be missing out an opportunity to get a mislynch on me. Could it be you were waiting for more then one suspicious person to vote and then find any reason to join the wagon?

[foodcoats]

TOWNREAD: Elements

I apologize if I missed this somewhere but can you reiterate why Elements is your strongest townread? What has he done that can't come from scum?

You didn't miss anything, I don't think I've spoken much about Elements.

Elements' ISO reads townish to me, even if it is in many places somewhat blank. I think probably the most townlean post for me is this:

as for my reads; i think at most only one out of FC and URAP2 are scum from voting patterns and at most only one from Scan, GL and yyotta are scum

I think this kind of process of elimination is more likely to come from town than scum. Scum are more likely to focus on a single target at a time, because they already know all the alignments and are focused on getting through the next lynch. Town are going to look for the broader relationships between multiple players.

However, the bigger part of why Elements ended up at the top of my town list is through a process of elimination. I've seen much scummier moves from URAP2 and Scantius, and I can also read a scum!GuiltyLion. Urist is a little lurky and I haven't had the time to really read into sheep's posts, so they are both at null because I can't really pin anything on them that leans either way for me. I think Dong actually is still kind of scummy - arguably scummier than both my null reads - but I found the level of sincerity in it's posts just too high to be easily faked by scum. Yyotta is a meta call and will probably never move to a full townread because of that, but I really do think I have to take stock of her play compared to other games of hers and give her town credit for that.

Thus, Elements ends up at the top of my list basically because I find nothing scummy in their play - even if they aren't the greatest example of pro-town play. I think perhaps the scummiest post by Elements is his response to my questions about wagons and whatnot. His answers are about as basic as they could be, and I would expect that scum would answer with exactly those responses in order to appear townie. Town might be more willing to explore different answers to those questions. But that would be more, like, a final leverage point to decide on Elements; it really doesn't make me lean scum towards Elements in any way at all.

I just did a quick look at his ISO and I'm also starting to realize now that Elements is quite lurky, so that's another mark against him. But overall, Elements is at the top of my town reads because, of all possible candidates, I am

least

interested in lynching Elements today - because he is, on balance, the most likely to be town.

[foodcoats]

Travelling ATM. Phone posting so nothing big from me tonight. FC, I'm assuming that you've figured out what I was talking about with elements by now. Can you give your thoughts on that whole thing now that you understand it.

Also you have as your only scumread because my interaction early with stantius looks like an elaborate method of pocketing him and this bit with questioning elements. Is that a fair representation of your read? Does your understanding of elements' error change this?

I'm sorry, but I still don't understand the argument against Elements. I don't think anyone has re-explained it, or explained it in a way that I think clearly points to that slip (if it is a slip - I don't see it) being made by scum!Elements instead of town!Elements. My point against you, both in this conversation and the one with Scantius, is that you seem to be splitting infinitesimal hairs to read scum. I feel like you've injected an agenda into a single post by Elements, and I think that's scummy. As I mentioned, this might be a clash of playstyles, but overall I think that it doesn't make sense to be looking for this kind of tiny slipup on D1 because there is literally zero game information available to town. It's really hard for me to think that this confusion of voting logic - which I still don't even think was illogical - is a reason to think Elements is scum.

[foodcoats]

Actually I think I read his response poorly. Will explain if anyone asks/cares

VOTE: elements

I think this L-1 for Elements.

[foodcoats]

I feel like fc and Elements are scum partners. It explains fc's townread on elements, and why elements put fc at the bottom. VOTE: elements

Yyotta, what made you come to this conclusion? Before this it looked like you were more focused on Scantius as scum, and you actually said you read me as null town. Is there anything else that makes you feel like either of us are scum? I don't like your wagoning onto the L-3 position here very much... I don't see the justification, your argument about the dynamics of Elements and I as a scum team seems like a really weak reason to lynch Elements - who was already on the way to being a wagon. That's super scummy.

[foodcoats]

Actually I think I read his response poorly. Will explain if anyone asks/cares

VOTE: elements

I think this L-1 for Elements.

Derp, nevermind. I guess URAP went off and back on here.

[foodcoats]

urap2's interactions around scantius p2 just dont really feel genuine and tbh it's kinda how i played wolf as a newer player

FWIW, I don't think URAP2 is a newer player and I think he/she is pretty sophisticated in their play. They were cagey about their experience when asked in this game, and also in the last game I played with them. Not sure if that affects your read, but for me I definitely have to consider that URAP is clever and knows how the game flows.

@sheep

What is your opinon on the Elements wagon? How do you read Elements?

[foodcoats]

Also, having done the sheep ISO: sheep mostly just has kind of a "coach" vibe, where they ask a lot of questions and make some "balancing" statements. There's not even anything really good to quote here for an ISO. That's either really townie or blendy scum... it definitely encourages everyone to actually spell out their own logic, which is good for town, but it also allows sheep to get away with not really making any big reads on their own. It's not something I'm going to lynch anyone over on D1, but I'd like to see more reads from you (or clear exposition of what you think of the game state), sheep.

[foodcoats]

Day One begins!



This phase will end in (expired on 2018-12-29 16:30:00) or sooner if a majority lynch is achieved.

I really have trouble with these counters, maybe because I don't believe in their sorcery... can someone help me confirm that this phase ends in the wee hours of 29th December as per the North American EST? I'm going to be pretty limited getting online for the next 3/4 days as I have family arriving today for the holidays. Just want to make sure I'm not going to miss EOD.

[Donempire]

Dodging prod. I'm a bit ill so i wont be reading posts until i get better, which should be around tomorrow.

[the worst]

vote count 1.12

foodcoats

(0)

L-5

:

YyottaCat

(1)

L-4

: Elements

Elements

(3)

L-2

: GuiltyLion, YyottaCat, u r a person 2

Scantius

(1)

L-4

: foodcoats

u r a person 2

(2)

L-3

: Dongempire, sheepsaysmeep,

PvtUrist

(0)

L-5

:

sheepsaysmeep

(0)

L-5

:

Dongempire

(0)

L-5

:

GuiltyLion

(0)

L-5

:

not voting

: Scantius, PvtUrist

This phase will end in (expired on 2018-12-29 16:30:00) or sooner if a majority lynch is achieved.

mod notes:

- prodding Scantius.
- PvtUrist isn't in prod range but will be while I'm gone; I'll be informally prodding him but if he posts shortly it won't count.
- I'm about to fly for ~8 more hours!! Don't have too much fun without me.
- quack

reading this vote count

Spoiler:

the worst

¹ (2)²

L-3

³ : PenguinPower, a goose<sup>4

1</sup> the player who this line of the vote count refers to.
² the number of votes currently on this player.
³ the number of votes this player is away from being lynched (e.g. L-5 = 5 votes from a lynch; L-3 = 3 votes away from a lynch; L-1 = one vote away from a lynch, etc.)
⁴ list of the players who are voting the player in question.

[PvtUrist]

Haven't been much active lately due to Christmas/End of Year stuff.

I'm leaning-town on Elements, as the only thing that seem scum to me is Post 99 and what follows it, of which has been the discussion for the majority of page 7 and 8. I agree with the pressure and is interested in seeing his further responses, but I feel that his mistake/slip can come from either allignments. I'm more cautious of the people who are willing to lynch someone solely based on a single potential scum-slip, but will see how things go.

I'm more suspicious of Scantius personally. He's been "soft cleared" early on and has been flying under the radar, only stopping to post either fluff or defense, and has

not applied a single point of pressure or provoked a single question

beyond Post 48.

VOTE: Scantius

[sheepsaysmeep]

I'm leaning-town on Elements, as the only thing that seem scum to me is Post 99 and what follows it, of which has been the discussion for the majority of page 7 and 8. I agree with the pressure and is interested in seeing his further responses, but I feel that his mistake/slip can come from either allignments. I'm more cautious of the people who are willing to lynch someone solely based on a single potential scum-slip, but will see how things go.

you talk here about why you dont wolfread him; can you explain more why he's leaning town for you?

[u r a person 2]

@fc
I don't really understand your confusion with regards to elements. You've seemed very reasonable last game and this game, and it doesn't really seem scummy to deny the slip because it's like denying that the sky is blue? I saw it, elements admitted to making the mistake and guilty lion saw it, so it happened. The question is how alignment indicative it is.

Here's one more go at explaining it.
>Elements makes 2 groups of players, saying he believes there is one scum in each group.
>He votes yyotta.
>He explains his vote by referring to and contradicting the first post
>Implying that he either didn't have his story straight or didn't know who he was voting for