Starcraft Mafia -- Game Over!

[Krazy]

Depots

Votecount 2.12

Mewtaph(5)

~ Performer(47), Nauci(296), Shoshin(137), AlmostNancy(414), Kokichi Oma(49)

Performer(3)

~ Xtoxm(109), Mitillos(19), Mewtaph(47)

Keyser Söze(3)

~ skitter30(81), Varsoon(156), the worst(207)


Not Voting (1): Keyser Söze(46)

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2018-12-23 13:59:19)

MOD REMINDERS

We will probably be defaulting to a 72 hour night here.

FLAVOR

Spoiler:

[Nauci]

Just telling me numbers don’t help, I need actual links.

Why?

[Shoshin]

I don't expect anyone to change their mind about Xtom, I just had to get my thoughts out before the day ended. I would really hate to lose this game to scum Xtom.

[AlmostNancy]

Just telling me numbers don’t help, I need actual links.

Why?

Because I can find the post automatically and also because of the way I’ve configured the settings, sometimes the numbers show up differently for me.

[Nauci]

I don't expect anyone to change their mind about Xtom, I just had to get my thoughts out before the day ended. I would really hate to lose this game to scum Xtom.

If I'm still around on later days don't worry I don't get complacent about my reads

[Nauci]

because of the way I’ve configured the settings, sometimes the numbers show up differently for me.

Wait how does that work

Wouldn't that beak the [post] tag?

[AlmostNancy]

Depots

Votecount 2.12

Mewtaph(5)

~ Performer(47), Nauci(296), Shoshin(137), AlmostNancy(414), Kokichi Oma(49)

Performer(3)

~ Xtoxm(109), Mitillos(19), Mewtaph(47)

Keyser Söze(3)

~ skitter30(81), Varsoon(156), the worst(207)


Not Voting (1): Keyser Söze(46)

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2018-12-23 13:59:19)

MOD REMINDERS

We will probably be defaulting to a 72 hour night here.

FLAVOR

Spoiler:

This VC looks really bad for Mewtaph. He has been hard pushing Key lynch and hard defending Performer but look where he’s voting?

How does this make any sense at all?

[AlmostNancy]

@Mewt, how would you compare mines and say skitter's read profession on you to Performer's and Keyser's?

Relying on previous reads on you two for today especially since there is a net zero chance of either of you getting lynched, but yes at times, the read progression (or lack thereof) has felt gross - some actions or comments coming off of those reads have also felt gross. I don't think this same approach comes from two scum though.

Keyser's movements with me have felt specifically underhanded while Performer's feel like they are more likely check out in the end.

I don't know how much of Performer's thought process I have been able to follow but maybe it's just because none of his posts have resonated with me in the same way I could on D1, maybe because they've felt slightly more scatted in some sense. I think his read progression on skitter that he had followed up on very recently feels pretty genuine though.

So why is Mew voting Performer over Key? Two really good scumtells, are both inconsistency and inexplicable weirdness. It’s not foolproof but when things they’re saying/doing don’t add up/make sense, that’s far more likely to come from scum than town.

[Xtoxm]

he mentioned that he didn't want push keyser because of his claim

[Shoshin]

@Xtom

What post # did you stop scumreading me? What post # did you start scumreading me again? Where's the trajectory? At the time you started scumreading me again, what was it based on? Can you cite the specific posts from me that made you scumread me again?

As I said, your initial vote on me felt like an attempt to pocket Varsoon more than anything else because your reason for scumreading me felt fake. Then you said I was twisting the facts without saying what facts I twisted. And now you're saying that actually you didn't scumread me at the time but were just voting me because of the policy-lynch-question on Varsoon? Can you see why it looks to me like you're pocketing Varsoon with that vote rather than genuinely scumhunting?

You say that your continued scumread on me is based solely on the fact that I still scumread you, right? The problem with that reasoning is that I stopped scumreading you when my townreads started townreading you. I didn't mention you at all as an option for lynching at the end of D1. I also didn't mention you at all as a scumread throughout most of D2. You were in my pool of potential scum by poe but I wasn't actually scumreading you, what I was doing was townreading others. So please explain why you're not taking that into consideration when reading me?

You said you are bad at real time interactions as scum. I didn't see that in Space Dandy. You did lots of them there. Why are you mischaracterizing your play as scum? Do you disagree with my assessment that you are competent scum who wins many of your games?

What do you think of Nancy's townread on you? Her actual reasoning? Is she townreading you for valid reasons?

[Xtoxm]

Nancy, if you're really confident in Mew-scum then i'll help you with it.
personally still feel like perf is the #1 bet for scum
but you tried to help me a lot with that wagon today
so i can return the favour
let me know.

[AlmostNancy]

I wanna go with Performer or Keyser out of what's been offered.

Feels like it's more likely to be right on Keyser.
If Keyser is town, then it's mechanically better to take a lynch at Performer instead (and also I can't be bothered dealing with the backlash of "omg we have no town PRs now" if that is the case which is just an exhausting sentiment to read.

I think that Performer's read progression on me has been hedgy, I thought that his followup on me voting Creature D1 was unmotivated, looking at this specific sequence of posts (1947, 2143), which I thought was an odd response to someone voting your scum read that you think everyone else isn't catching. I'm not 100% sold on it but at the same time he hasn't been that cooperative with giving any indication wrt post-N1-Creature thoughts, but he may have just been adjusting to a scum read of me. Mechanically lynching a 1-shot bulletproof is probably better than an odd-night gunsmith, which is why the early role claim of 1-shot BP annoyed me if coming from town. Honestly I've been pretty wish washy with him, but like I know that the way Performer thinks about things will lead to a scum read on me so I'm not going to say go.

I feel like Keyser has purposefully approached my information in a malicious way that I don't feel good about at all. Like they're holding onto their scum chip of me unless I out my information. Feels like they're already angling to discredit whatever I come out with, in a way that doesn't feel natural. His read progression on me has felt traditionally scum-esque - pop in with an early townread while avoiding direct engagement then letting it progress into a scumread as everyone else looks towards me. I think he's "testing" my read of him (3390, 3396, 3397) (3922) in a way that feels like he's trying to get a feel of the plays he can try to make dependent on what my info actually is.

@Xtoxm, why does Mew ever vote Performer over Key, despite this?

If I am Mew here, my vote is on Key not Performer. Something isn’t adding up here.

[Xtoxm]

Why are you mischaracterizing your play as scum?

i don't feel like i am.
space dandy was probably one of my best efforts at mimicking my town play.
but when a good player who knew me well replaced in it started getting difficult for me.
i have a memory in that game where i went quiet literally bc i was scum and couldn't think of anything to say
then nacho said something like "are you going quiet bc [incorrect reason]"
and i was like FUCK FUCK FUCK need to do something.

--

overall i do feel like you have a little bit higher of a opinion of my scumgame than i do of it.
a lot of my scum wins have come by basically avoiding interaction. varsoon can attest to this.
there are a number of scum wins that im quite proud of tho and i appreciate your compliment regardless if your exaggerating it as scum or genuinely have come to this conclusion.

[Xtoxm]

I wanna go with Performer or Keyser out of what's been offered.

Feels like it's more likely to be right on Keyser.
If Keyser is town, then it's mechanically better to take a lynch at Performer instead (and also I can't be bothered dealing with the backlash of "omg we have no town PRs now" if that is the case which is just an exhausting sentiment to read.

I think that Performer's read progression on me has been hedgy, I thought that his followup on me voting Creature D1 was unmotivated, looking at this specific sequence of posts (1947, 2143), which I thought was an odd response to someone voting your scum read that you think everyone else isn't catching. I'm not 100% sold on it but at the same time he hasn't been that cooperative with giving any indication wrt post-N1-Creature thoughts, but he may have just been adjusting to a scum read of me. Mechanically lynching a 1-shot bulletproof is probably better than an odd-night gunsmith, which is why the early role claim of 1-shot BP annoyed me if coming from town. Honestly I've been pretty wish washy with him, but like I know that the way Performer thinks about things will lead to a scum read on me so I'm not going to say go.

I feel like Keyser has purposefully approached my information in a malicious way that I don't feel good about at all. Like they're holding onto their scum chip of me unless I out my information. Feels like they're already angling to discredit whatever I come out with, in a way that doesn't feel natural. His read progression on me has felt traditionally scum-esque - pop in with an early townread while avoiding direct engagement then letting it progress into a scumread as everyone else looks towards me. I think he's "testing" my read of him (3390, 3396, 3397) (3922) in a way that feels like he's trying to get a feel of the plays he can try to make dependent on what my info actually is.

@Xtoxm, why does Mew ever vote Performer over Key, despite this?

If I am Mew here, my vote is on Key not Performer. Something isn’t adding up here.

for mechanical reasons.
i'm not looking to convince you of anything here.
i'm mild-gut-towning on mew.
but i could be wrong.
if you want me to vote him.
ask me to vote him.
that's all!

[AlmostNancy]

Nancy, if you're really confident in Mew-scum then i'll help you with it.
personally still feel like perf is the #1 bet for scum
but you tried to help me a lot with that wagon today
so i can return the favour
let me know.

I don’t townread Performer and am suspicious of his claim but gun to head, Mew’s play today, seems objectively scummier than Performer’s.

I think if Mew flips red, I’ll be definitely reconsidering my read on Key and if he flips green, then we should definitely lynch Performer next. So, I think Mew and Key are probably w/w if Mew flips red and if so, then maybe Performer is spewed town?

The kind of hedgy read Mew has on Performer, reads more like scum read on town, while Mew Keyser read (if Mew flips scum) reads like classic distancing.

So am I confident Mew flips red? No but his play today, is definitely the scummiest in the entire playerlist. He wasn’t acting weird like this when NM was the likely lynch, so something seems definitely off here. I also hard townread Skitter who modded Mew as scum and she has been saying that she thinks, this is Mew’s scumgame.

[Xtoxm]

Can you see why it looks to me like you're pocketing Varsoon with that vote rather than genuinely scumhunting?

i guess i can see this as a thought process yeah.

[Kokichi Oma]

Look we cant end in NL. Vote

[Kokichi Oma]

This is possibly multi ball. Scum might genuinely be scum hunting if thats why you mildly tr him

[AlmostNancy]

I wanna go with Performer or Keyser out of what's been offered.

Feels like it's more likely to be right on Keyser.
If Keyser is town, then it's mechanically better to take a lynch at Performer instead (and also I can't be bothered dealing with the backlash of "omg we have no town PRs now" if that is the case which is just an exhausting sentiment to read.

I think that Performer's read progression on me has been hedgy, I thought that his followup on me voting Creature D1 was unmotivated, looking at this specific sequence of posts (1947, 2143), which I thought was an odd response to someone voting your scum read that you think everyone else isn't catching. I'm not 100% sold on it but at the same time he hasn't been that cooperative with giving any indication wrt post-N1-Creature thoughts, but he may have just been adjusting to a scum read of me. Mechanically lynching a 1-shot bulletproof is probably better than an odd-night gunsmith, which is why the early role claim of 1-shot BP annoyed me if coming from town. Honestly I've been pretty wish washy with him, but like I know that the way Performer thinks about things will lead to a scum read on me so I'm not going to say go.

I feel like Keyser has purposefully approached my information in a malicious way that I don't feel good about at all. Like they're holding onto their scum chip of me unless I out my information. Feels like they're already angling to discredit whatever I come out with, in a way that doesn't feel natural. His read progression on me has felt traditionally scum-esque - pop in with an early townread while avoiding direct engagement then letting it progress into a scumread as everyone else looks towards me. I think he's "testing" my read of him (3390, 3396, 3397) (3922) in a way that feels like he's trying to get a feel of the plays he can try to make dependent on what my info actually is.

@Xtoxm, why does Mew ever vote Performer over Key, despite this?

If I am Mew here, my vote is on Key not Performer. Something isn’t adding up here.

for mechanical reasons.
i'm not looking to convince you of anything here.
i'm mild-gut-towning on mew.
but i could be wrong.
if you want me to vote him.
ask me to vote him.
that's all!

I don’t want to tell anyone who to vote for. All I’m saying, is I feel slightly better about Mew flipping scum than Performer - for all of the reasons I’ve already given. If you agree, you should vote Mew. If you don’t, you shouldn’t.

Mew’s flip also gives us more information than Performer’s I think. Scum!Mew (possibly)=scum!Key, where as town!Mew, more likely points to scum!Performer.

If Mew is also a ninja (because his flavour involves invisibility), then that would disprove Mitillos’ no ninja claim as well.

[Xtoxm]

What do you think of Nancy's townread on you? Her actual reasoning? Is she townreading you for valid reasons?

i think they were initially weak. when she first called me town for talking about brownie pts i thought that would be really easy to fake as scum. but later reasons such as my defending keyser and talking openly are absolutely valid reasons.

[Nauci]

#4080 is so full of misreps and twisting of facts its comical. you guys will have to take the blinkers off at some point. just because she has 1 game of scum ever in her meta and played badly in it doesnt mean you should locktown and never reevaluate if she isnt obvious floundering scum. people improve a lot after being scum the first time.

Can you point out some of the misreps?

[AlmostNancy]

This is possibly multi ball. Scum might genuinely be scum hunting if thats why you mildly tr him

That’s a good point.

Also @Xtoxm, it doesn’t look like we’re lynching Performer today and Kokichi is absolutely right, a no lynch is the worst option, so I guess you should vote Mew, even to avoid a no lynch but I feel, it’s a good vote, anyway. *shrug*

[Xtoxm]

VOTE: Mew

[Shoshin]

Don't worry, we're not no lynching. I'll definitely be around to switch my vote if necessary.

[Nauci]

Can we talk about how awful it is that Keyser isn't voting rn