Excalibur [Endgame]

[Chara]

hi everyone!
i'll read soon-ish.

[Chara]

deadline is in two days, so i suppose i'll read sooner than soonish.
unless someone has a major argument for Fire being town i'll lynch that, really. unless there's some mechanical reason that makes no-lynching preferable to flipping someone who could go either way*.

*note: of course, i haven't read yet.
speaking of, hi Fire!
and everyone else too. :>

pedit: hi Varsoon!
rarely yes, but i always enjoy when it happens.

[Chara]

i replaced in because this game is 75% people i know, for what it's worth.

[Chara]

i'm pretty good. a little tired, maybe, but exams are winding down and i'm sure we'll be getting more sleep soon.

i've read a bit of what happened.

[Chara]

Disappointed by lynch flip but tbh it was necessary, LLD was playing extremely erratically and would have had to go at some point.

so I don't love this post... feels like a guilty conscience

why would scum feel guilty?

[Chara]

This game is wild. Now let's scumhunt please? Anyone who gladiates for no reason is being lynched again.

[Chara]

this game slipped my mind, i'm sorry about that. it sounds like we have plenty of time though. i'm going to be reading tonight. early gladiates today are bad.

[Chara]

early gladiates today are bad.

Why are they bad Chara?

why would they be good? locking us into a lynch early on for no reason isn't a good idea. and i'm still catching up.

[Chara]

i agree with Cakez. this game feels like mostly inactive/passive scum. i recall a lot of town fighting town over claims.

also i was going to post a few things from Gamma that felt very suspect until i realized he's town. so that's... well, it's something, at the very least.

[Chara]

I repeat: I haven't done anything. That's a pretty weak reason for a "strong scum read."

So, basically, your entire read on my slot is activity based.

That is a misrep. I already said, I thought Ariane was scummy. THEN I said, that you hadn’t done anything to change my mind on that.

So, I am not scumreading you based on “inactivity”. I obviously am not townreading for that on top of a slot that pinged me, before you even replaced in.

Nancy feels town too. i've given up on trying to read sequentially and am going through sections as they catch my interest.
hypothetical scum Nancy focusing on a town slot whose only meaningful actiom was a vote on her just doesn't seem likely.

[Chara]

2 days is a pretty good amount of time for me, personally. especially since i'm not townreading either.

[Chara]

so. fakeclaims. great for faking out scum, right? nothing bad could come of them.

[Chara]

Auro could easily confirm this.

[Chara]

it's great that they are, but i'm only going to consider it a win when something besides a mislynch is gained from it.
let's see what Auro says.

[Chara]

I really, really wish Chara or UT would get in game.

sorry. to be fair, i was here yesterday, NK was just lynched pretty quickly.

the fact that the consensus scumreads are just the two players not posting kind of makes me nervous, for what it's worth.

[Chara]

actually, considering the game state it isn't awful. i'm also townreading the active posters.
but to be perfectly honest, i don't have the best grasp of who that is besides Varsoon/Maria/Nancy.

[Chara]

ugh. lost my post but it basically says "three scum left, only two need to die" and everybody has been pretty towny. everybody meaning Nancy and Varsoon and Maria. Kokichi is Merlin, if Dunn was scum i think Maria would have said something, so it leaves UT/Penguin/Gamma.
Nancy's reason for Gamma town is fine. i don't mind it. one of those townies i'm ok calling town (like Gamma) must be a scum but it's fine if we hit the others.

[Chara]

i might just gladiate UT. guarantee i could out-town him in a 1v1 and it's just

so

likely he's scum given where the rest of the game is and his ISO.
even better would be a Penguin/UT gladiate, but i don't actually have a read on Penguin. so, maybe not.
either is fine, really. i'll keep reading.

[Chara]

i didn't mean you were inactive, sorry. you aren't. i was just listing the players on the page i was on that i saw posting. which is what my post was saying, that i was so out of it i didn't even know who was active.

as for early gladiates, it doesn't matter to me any more, but i decided to announce my ideas before just jumping into them.

[Chara]

aren't there three scum left, not 2?

i'll gladiate as soon as i hear from Gamma.

[Chara]

UT, that's a pretty meaningless question. anyone can say they'll flip town. you've just admitted yourself you haven't been doing much this game. i haven't either.
speaking of, why gladiate Penguin over me?
to answer your question, it would mean at least one strong townread is wrong.

Gamma: your opinion on me gladiating UT, that's what i wanted to hear.

[Chara]

why's that?

[Chara]

that doesn't really clear things up for me. who is scum that you want dead?

[Chara]

and UT, the cog-dis in 2852 and 2856 is very blatant. and i rarely say that.

[Chara]

yes. there would be a scum besides UT, and considering i just offered to gladiate him i wouldn't be surprised if UT preferred to gladiate Penguin, who he would probably have a better chance at beating than me.
he knows he's going to be in a gladiate either way by now.

i don't know if he'd do that if he's scum with Penguin. i'd say it's possible, but actively gladiating town would just be a better idea for scum here.
i don't think any scum here can try and sit and hope town gladiates town again. there just aren't enough players left.

[Chara]

and UT, the cog-dis in 2852 and 2856 is very blatant. and i rarely say that.

what are you talking about?

you say you have no problem gladiating Penguin because you and him are both widely scumread, but when i ask why him over me you say that both of us are scumbuddies (a tongue in cheek reference to where scumreads are at right now). and add that the scumreads on us are both lazy, if i read that right. (maybe you mesnt Penguin there?)

so, you acknowledge that you haven't been doing anything, but that apparently the town shouldn't be scumreading that?
i'm asking you questions about your read on me to get some more content out of you, and i'd appreciate an actual answer.
as it is i'd say you're just scum, though.
if it's not you, i'd say Gamma/Penguin. but that's two of three. who's the last?

[Chara]

i didn't really say what i wanted to say there. why isn't gladiating me an option for you, when i'm actually more of a consensus scumread than Penguin appears to be?

[Chara]

if UT is scum here i believe he knows he can't turn this around. well, mostly, i'm sure there's a chance. if i was in that position i'd be trying to put up false associatives with town to score the game-winning mislynch.
so, in that position, the current options proposed would be me gladiating him, or him gladiating Penguin. let's assume Penguin is town as your post proposes, Varsoon. of course UT would want him over me as his 1v1 target.
a scum UT doesn't have the luxury of getting a TvT gladiate happening, is the bottom line.

[Chara]

It's kinda interesting because I am absolutely sure that if one of you three is scum, then there's gotta be a town common denominator between you all.

what do you mean by town common denominator? (if not that "there's town in the three of you somewhere")

[Chara]

that's an interestng proposal, considering you'd be my first pick for that elusive third scum (assuming 1 scum in us three, scum Gamma, and then you).

and i'm trying to understand, but still not sure i get it. scum, unless bussing for some reason, want to gladiate a town they can mislynch... not someone who would be townread as town. the two conditions seem to contradict each other. am i missing something?

[Chara]

yes, and i'm sorry about that. the good news is i'm trying now, and so i doubt i'll be mislynched unless town makes a really bad gladiate.

Penguin really doesn't have any content, but UT has posts like the one about Cakez's reaction to the flip, and his followup after i questioned it. (posts i find a bit scummy).

speaking of, why was Cakez nightkilled? i'm asking because i don't know if he was very townread or not.

[Chara]

my position on the matter is everything will be fine provided i actually pick scum to gladiate. i don't want to hit town here.
the odds are pretty low, since Nancy is being towny. you're also being pretty towny, but i've misread you once in the past. (i was scum at the time but it was a genuine read).

pedit: i'll take that to mean he wasn't being townread.
so it's a pretty strange kill. he also wasn't an "Arthur with no sword" guess kind of candidate, i think.
i don't know what to make of it though.

peditx2: maybe it was that.

[Chara]

Why do you scumread Gamma and Varsoon?

I’m gonna assume you hard townread Dunn?

i don't. i townread you the most, followed by Varsoon and then Gamma.
i hard townread Dunn because i trust Maria's read.

[Chara]

thanks for the answer on Cakes Nancy, makes sense.

2853 was answering UT's question.

[Chara]

i also want to hear from Penguin but as it stands i know what i'm doing.
Maria's also correct. :>

[Chara]

Challenge: Untrod Tripod

Penguin needs a prod, but i'm doing this anyway.

[Chara]

that would have been a great moment to throw out a scumread that isn't consensus and do something fun, but i don't have a good one and, also, am kind of a coward at heart.

[Chara]

if Maria isn't conftown, it does make me feel much less happy about the gamestate right now. because it opens up Dunnstral scum too and means i have to actually read him. and Maria.

[Chara]

ok.

Dunn is still town, Maria would have said something if she had any worries about that being wrong to think.
i imagine Kokichi has explaining to do.
UT being town sucks.

[Chara]

i'm throwing out my reads on those 4 and trying again.

[Chara]

Chara - why the null/loose scum read on me? Atypical.

loose null/scum reads from me on PoE i'm not townreading are exactly in my wheelhouse and the prove is literally every game i'm in. what's atypical?

[Chara]

i'm throwing out my reads on those 4 and trying again.

And why are you resetting your reads?

because based on my townreads on Varsoon and Nancy, UT had to be scum. he's town so i was wrong somewhere and i need to try and work on that with fresh eyes as much as i can.

[Chara]

Here’s my tinfoil theory. Scum figured out Maria was really Merlin and is trying to frame Kokichi for it but it’s blatantly obvious that Maria knew he was Merlin, or she 100% would have exposed him

So, scum might be someone who wanted to get him mislynched and kill me, the next obvtown tonight.

So, who, figured it out? That’s likely scum.

But It’s not hard, we remove us from the pile and you then have Dunn, Gamma and Penguin and Chara, right?

So,we force 2 of those 4 to gladiate today.

HURT: Penguin

why isn't Varsoon in this post?

[Chara]

I’m town, so my strongest townread is Varsoon?

forgot about this. so Varsoon is your strongest townread, which is why he wasn't mentioned.

[Chara]

Nancy, do you have any scum games you could link me?

[Chara]

yes. i just had UT as most likely scum out of those three in the PoE.
i know we need to lynch 2 out of 3, but just going "oh well let's lynch Gamma and Penguin" would be an easy way to lose if one of them is town, and the third uncaught scum is helping direct lynches.
so i'm redoing my reads.

[Chara]

actually that would be second and third uncaught scum, wouldn't it.
though i don't think it's likely Nancy and Varsoon are both scum, it's possible.
right now i'm leaning Nancy as my other townread, but i need to be sure.

[Chara]

i don't have a strong scumread. it's rare that i do. my townhunting is better than my scumhunting, so that's what i'm focusing on until i come up with something i feel i can trust on the scumread front.

[Chara]

there's only six people left in the lynchpool. remove myself and Dunnstral, and it's just four. if i find the other town among that, i know who all the scum are. that just seems easier to me than trying to find one scummy player, who could be scummy town that the remaining scum want us to mislynch.
and on the off and bad chance Dunnstral actually is scum, methodically going through every player besides Kokichi still gives a better chance of hitting scum if i avoid lynching the ones i think are more likely town.

[Chara]

I dunno, I don't think scum Chara ever proposes a gladiate on town here because we've got an extra day anyway, so it'd just get them lynched D5.
So Chara's either town with whatever UT is
or Chara and UT is scum and it's a bus that buys us more time regardless.
I'm for it.

i'd like to hear you revisit this line of thought Varsoon, considering the flip, and what you proposed later regarding UT wanting to gladiate Penguin.

[Chara]

it didn't. Dunn's been out of my lynchpool since yesterday because Maria's read on him trumps any i might come up with.
you're my strongest townread based on my own independent read.

[Chara]

So, same thing turned around to you, Chara:
Do you think that UT, as scum, proposes the gladiate be between themselves and town when the townflip looks really bad for them here and we've got another day to play?

this too. you used the logic for why you thought i was town then, but why not UT? he did the same thing i had, which was propose a gladiate (as opposed to actually doing so).
why didn't you townread UT's doing it? why did you townread my doing it?

[Chara]

it didn't. Dunn's been out of my lynchpool since yesterday because Maria's read on him trumps any i might come up with.
you're my strongest townread based on my own independent read.

What’s your take on the Maria NK?

i think it was actually Kokichi saying Maria wasn't Arthur. or at least part of it. scum probably figured out a switch had occurred, or at least that Merlin was engaging in WIFOM. they might have taken a risk on that.

i have another theory about the Maria nk, which is a bit more awkward to say because having her dead means she can't 100% read me as town when it really matters. and for the same reason, she'd be good to have dead if i were scum here.
it's probably the first, the second is less likely because it would require the scumteam to know that fact and apply it.

[Chara]

i actually forgot you were in Overkill. or that you were SK in it.
now that i'm reminded, hi. i still forgot.

[Chara]

and when i asked that i was sort of hoping for multiple links. hence games and not game.
though it's true i did forget. i don't know what to say except is it some kind of scum strategy to pretend like i hadn't seen your scumgame?

[Chara]

I don’t necessarily agree with Varsoon’s Chara read. Why does he ask for a scumgame from his #1 “independent” townread?

i already said why, Nancy. i said i wanted to be sure about you. and i explained i like to townhunt.

[Chara]

@Chara: I think I'm biased about you given my particular experience with you in games I have modded, which is something that I struggle with around pretty much any player.
Like how I was sure Cerb was 3P in the recent Overkill game because his play was reminding me so much of SaGa Frontier and since I have such a tonal baseline for RR as a hydra due to something like 10+ games modded of theirs.

I still don't think you propose a gladiate on town UT if you're scum. That sort of play is much more in UT's wheelhouse.
It's why I think that if you're scum here, you're playing a tonally consistent town game but taking measures that I'd not expect, either out of WIFOM or desperation.
I also don't see you advising a shot on potential BP after taking such a huge risk move.
That's why I think it's more likely that others are scum before you are, and if they advised/orchestrated/coached your play, that'd make sense to me.

this conclusion makes sense. i should probably have more to say about it and i might in the morning. i think i'd do it as scum but i see where you came to the conclusion and that's what matters.

this might be my unwarranted frustration talking but i don't know how i can sort you from Nancy. if you're scum you're playing a good game. and she's reminded me that i wrongly townread her in Overkill for her emotional posting. i had to stop and think about it, i have a bad habit of remembering my reads on players in past games instead of their actual alignments.
the fact that i forgot she was scum in a game we were just in because i'd read her as town just kind of decimated my own confidence in that townread and now i don't know where to go from here.

part of me wants to latch onto you here because i'd think scum Varsoon wouldn't have wanted to lock himself out of the Chara mislynch. but (assuming Dunn's town) you could be scum with Nancy and have an easier mislynch target in either Gamma or Penguin, because you know i'm not a mislynchable player.

[Chara]

i actually forgot you were in Overkill. or that you were SK in it.
now that i'm reminded, hi. i still forgot.

How would you forget a game that recent?

But okay, why do you ask for a link to a scumgame from your #1 “independent” townread?

I don’t see why UT green flip, ought to affect that.

Do you have familiarity with Penguin’s, Dunn’s, Gamma’s, Varsoon’s scumgames, and if so, how recent were any of them?

Also, why are you so convinced Maria’s read on Dunn is correct, when she wrongly scumread 3/4 players?

NK15 doesn’t count and no one gets towncred for scumreading that slot. He obviously volunteered to eat a lynch. Had he any intention of surviving, he would have gladiated, UT/Penguin over Sir Cakes. NK lynch was clearly a voluntary scum-coordinated effort.

1) i have a bad memory.

2) i explained this.

3) it doesn't. also answered this before.

4) the only one i remember is Dunnstral. it was recent, we were scum together.

5) Maria's record of reading Dunn specifically is really really good. she's been right in every game i've been with them together.

[Chara]

like. i have a really, really bad memory. i want to stress that. i forget my own reads in games i'm currently in and have to reread my own ISO.

[Chara]

no, i saw Varsoon scum recently too. i'm sure i've seen Gamma scum but i don't remember where. i misread Varsoon in his scumgame.

[Chara]

asking you for a scumgame wasn't me thinking you were scum. it was wanting to reaffirm my own townread which was based on what i thought was really honest posting from you and from towngames i'd seen from you.
lack of confidence in my own reads aside.

[Chara]

I actually think scum didnt know Maria was Merlin. And killed her thinking dunn was Arthur and I was Merlin.

So, maybe Pengin and Gamma, then?

I was damn sure Kokichi was Merlin and Maria was Arthur. And don’t try to argue someone else took over because I’ve backed down on pushing my preferred kill in the past and it has worked out poorly.

there's really no need to argue that someone else took over the kill if one could argue you were lying about being sure who was who.

[Chara]

Gamma, what are your thoughts on everything else? namely us four who aren't Dunn/Kokichi.

Penguin just needs to post.

[Chara]

i don't really get the point of what you're saying here, Nancy. i don't find Dunnstral's comment on Maria day 1 relevant, nor that LLD took it the way she did. unless you're arguing that Dunn incited LLD to gladiate Maria, it doesn't seem to have a bearing on Dunn's alignment.
and you've said you aren't arguing that.

pedit: same hat.

[Chara]

Gamma, what are your thoughts on everything else? namely us four who aren't Dunn/Kokichi.

Penguin just needs to post.

I’m mildly paranoid of you tbh. This started around yesterDay.

ok... why? and do you mean you're scumreading me or townreading but paranoid.
and the other three?

[Chara]

Hypocrite much?

For someone who has me as their #1 “independent” townread, I’m not getting good vibes from your recent posting.

We only need to figure out 2/3 of the remaining scumteam. I don’t know about Dunn but I think you’re either pocketing him ot you’re w/w.

Samething probably goes for Penguin.

What is becoming really obvious to me, is how town!you is blatant obvtown and if you’re not blatant obvtown, likely chance you’re not. I’m also not just saying this because of POE. If I was convinced I was seeing obvtown Chara here, I would have already eliminated you from my POE.

i don't understand what's hypocritical in the bolded. i asked about Varsoon because i'd missed you earlier saying he was your number 1 townread. i asked Gamma about other players because he'd only talked about Kokichi and Dunnstral.

[Chara]

For someone who has me as their #1 “independent” townread, I’m not getting good vibes from your recent posting.

i'll be honest here Nancy. this is pissing me off. in half of your posts directed towards me you mention that you're my number 1 townread, with independent in scare quotes. what kind of point are you making here? the hell does my read on you even have to do with the vibes you're getting from my posts?
why do you keep snarkily bringing it up? if you don't buy that it's true, just say that.

[Chara]

this may be surprising to hear, but you

are not

my number one TR anymore. i haven't said so explicitly but you have not been since you reminded me of Overkill. i've said this.

[Chara]

^^^^^

[Chara]

We only need to figure out 2/3 of the remaining scumteam. I don’t know about Dunn but I think you’re either pocketing him ot you’re w/w.

Samething probably goes for Penguin.

where is Penguin pocketing Dunnstral, being likely w/w with Dunnstral, or even doing anything comparable to my posting?

[Chara]

Here’s my tinfoil theory. Scum figured out Maria was really Merlin and is trying to frame Kokichi for it but it’s blatantly obvious that Maria knew he was Merlin, or she 100% would have exposed him

So, scum might be someone who wanted to get him mislynched and kill me, the next obvtown tonight.

So, who, figured it out? That’s likely scum.

But It’s not hard, we remove us from the pile and you then have Dunn, Gamma and Penguin and Chara, right?

So,we force 2 of those 4 to gladiate today.

HURT: Penguin

why isn't Varsoon in this post?

I’m town, so my strongest townread is Varsoon?

forgot about this. so Varsoon is your strongest townread, which is why he wasn't mentioned.

also, context. they're literally right next to each other.

[Chara]

Do you dispute that LLD used that comment of yours to at least partially, justify her Maria gladiate or not?

i can assume Dunn's position on your readslist has to do with this comment here.

spinning an action LLD made of her own volition as some kind of manip from Dunn, because he had the utter

gall

to not be 100% certain of Maria's alignment on day 1?
it's reaching.
however, your snarky reaction to my townread on you (and the subsequent deterioration of that townread as you continued to talk with me that way) is pretty towny. it's only scum you if scum you is foolish enough to be picking a fight with me that you think you could win, and if i'm the only option for a mislynch.

it means if you're scum then your partners have to be Gamma and Penguin. otherwise you'd be going after them over me. i'll keep that in mind even though i don't want to lynch you right now. in that scenario you don't feel you can go back on that Varsoon townread.
there's another scenario where Penguin is town too and you would like to lynch there or me, and it means Varsoon's scum with you. don't know how i feel about that right now, honestly, but still leaning no.

most likely to me is still that Penguin is scum who's trying to coast and wait for town (me, possibly you) to bite each other's heads off. i'm conscious of that possibility, and that's why i need Penguin and Gamma to get their heads in the game if either of them are town. if not, i'm happy to lynch them.

[Chara]

Varsoon: how about instead of the town common denominator, it's the scum common denominator?

Dunnstral: wants to kill Gamma and Penguin. mentions Gamma more. not sure about his reads on me/Nancy/Varsoon.
Varsoon: townreading Nancy. has scum in remaining four. has less of a preference for me being scum only because he thinks scum decisions this game would be coming from others, possibly others on my team.
Nancy: at least she posted an easy list. Dunn/Penguin/me is her current scumteam. TRing Varsoon the most and Gamma second.
Gamma: major issue here is that his recent reads aren't stated anywhere. mentioned paranoia on me. what are his reads on Dunn/Nancy/Varsoon/Penguin? and me, even?
Penguin: townreads Dunn. otherwise pattern is close to Varsoon, in that he has his scum in the 4 players he isn't townreading, namely me/Gamma/Varsoon/Nancy. i'm mentioned as being atypical, which i'd count as a scumread on me/preference to lynch me over the rest.

i haven't looked at reads from earlier for a reason. they aren't as relevant, what i'm looking for is scum maneuvering in the endgame. scum doesn't have as many options for mislynches now due to how many players are left.

[Chara]

thanks Dunn. need a few more of these.

in the interest of being fair, here are mine:

Dunnstral
Gamma
Nancy
Varsoon
Penguin

[Chara]

No way in hell is my play here, even remotely similar to Overkill 1.

You are not town here and this post, proves it.

Anyone who sincerely believes that there is any world where, my play here is similar to that game, please ISO me and then also tell me, if anyone who doesn’t have reading comprehension issues, could seriously ever think this.

you reminded me of Overkill's existence.
i forgot you were scum in it.
your play here doesn't "remind me of Overkill".

what you reminded me of was the game where you were scum, but where i townread you for being sincerely emotional.
what that means, Nancy, is my way of reading you turned out to be wrong, so i could no longer just trust the townread i had.

[Chara]

Do you seriously think we’re all idiots here, Chara?

yay for continuing to misread my posts, Nancy.
i do have a bad memory. you're the one who reminded me of Overkill. i forgot. you had to tell me you were scum in it. christ.

[Chara]

And fwiw, you are one of my favourite people on this site and truly sorry if I’m “pissing you off”, because I happen to think you replaced into a scumslot. I still really like you a lot and greatly respect you as a person and your play. <3

i like you too.
i'm not pissed off for the scumread, i'm pissed off because if you're town it feels like you misread it every time i make a post, and then say my play isn't adding up because of those misreads.

[Chara]

Wrt the bolded, I really do NOT appreciate your misrep. I never “spun” ANYTHING. I pointed it out - SOLELY because LLD referenced it. I find your unwarranted shade on me, concerning.

why did you bring it up then? what's the point?
LLD is dead.
the only reason to bring it up is to make a point about a living player. i thought you were saying something about Dunn.

[Chara]

On the (what looks to me rn based on your most recent posts) the higly unlikely chance that I’m wrong here - because how else, do you account for deliberately mischaracterizing my play in Overkill 1, with THIS one - a game, you apparently can’t even freaking REMEMBER?

that's easy. it's you misreading my posts. i don't think it's deliberate.

your play here isn't like Overkill 1. the game's existence just proved my metric for reading you is wrong. there's a difference. i have scumgames that look really different. it's not strange.
i will say thank god you aren't the type to have gladiated me before everyone even gave their readslist, because now that it's not late i'm realizing it's pretty unlikely you're scum with this posting, because it's rare that i get this pissed with somebody who's scum.
or to word it another way, i'm unconsciously townreading you, because there's no reason to get annoyed with someone who has a wincon reason to do this.

[Chara]

as for Varsoon's read on Dunn: frankly, he shouldn't have that suspicion.
Varsoon's reads are the most suspect thing about his slot, and why he needs to post more. he made a post on me before at my prompting, but beyond that hasn't given any reads besides his townread on you this Day.
him, Penguin, and Gamma, i don't remember any of them interacting with my assertion that Dunnstral is town based on Maria's read. the only one who did was Dunn, who asked Maria about it. (if i'm wrong here, somebody tell me.)
Maria can read Dunn well. really well. if someone thinks he's scum they need to refute that, and this includes you Nancy.

[Chara]

i should stop being lame and just gladiate Penguin already. it'd mean i'm willing to bet the game on Nancy being town. (and that the team is Gamma/Varsoon/Penguin.)
it's hard to accept a scenario where all of the remaining scum are holding back, though.

[Chara]

Because if Dunn is town here, then he should logically be the next scumkill, right?

not really. me and Penguin are the only two players townreading him. if we're both scum then leaving him alive would be a great idea.

[Chara]

right, i'm actually going to take a break from this and go and do Christmas things. in the interest of a happy holiday and new year, let's nobody gladiate anybody while i'm gone. unless you're scum and it's me.
<3

[Chara]

i'm still busy with family but i'm not in a rush to post, seeing as i want to hear from everybody.
and yes i'll wait. merry christmas nancy. and everyone!
i'd be really surprised if you're scum with this. so that part's probably fine.

[Chara]

I suppose it was foolish for me to have ignored the fact, that you and Penguin are each other’s #1 scumread.

Well...this isn't true.

no, as i said in my readslist it's unclear what the order of your scumreads is.
i asked about your question to me, too.

[Chara]

Chara - why the null/loose scum read on me? Atypical.

loose null/scum reads from me on PoE i'm not townreading are exactly in my wheelhouse and the prove is literally every game i'm in. what's atypical?

[Chara]

what that tells me is you have a playstyle i tend to scumread. i do seem to remember not townreading you often, but nothing else stands out to me from our game together.
you really haven't done much this game. i can't read you off of it, but Nancy is really town and Dunn is too. if you aren't you'll have to figure out which of those two is scum, or convince me to lynch Varsoon or Gamma. :>
and, speaking to hypothetical town Penguin here, what's your read on me? i feel like my reason for my read on you is very easy to figure out if you read your own ISO.

[Chara]

kind of making me paranoid that no one but Penguin has mentioned lynching Varsoon.

[Chara]

but i'm going to be paranoid until the game ends. i do want to see what he says before the gladiate because i think Varsoon's my favourite pick for scum out of this group right now. (meaning taking into account where i may have fucked up a townread.)
though i'm still townreading both Nancy and Dunn. i think i've explained a lot for both but i think if i'm wrong anywhere it points to scum Varsoon

anyway

, and even if my townreads are completely right it still makes Varsoon definite scum.
so he's safest.

[Chara]

This is PP responding to NK15's claim
honestly I'm probably gonna townclear the first couple people on NK15's wagon because his play was definitely a saving throw attempt so I doubt his team would pile on early when there was still hope

why would Penguin react any differently to a claim that's immediately disproved by Auro posting?

[Chara]

Well there nothing to really argue about

Honestly feels like NK15 is a scum fall-guy and gladiated early to try to snip town from discussing/figuring out more because outside of NK15 we're going in the wrong direction.

i actually don't think NK15 was a saving attempt at all. i think Varsoon wss correct here in that the bus was already planned.
i also think it could be a case of Varsoon revealing too much in an attempt at towncred.

[Chara]

i'd love to know who you want lynched, Varsoon. and who you would gladiate to avoid me gladiating you.
your reads are still Nancy town and scum in the rest, which isn't much of a direction.

[Chara]

I'll look over penguin quickly because I don't want to just end everything by gladiating town

it should be obvious, but this townread on Penguin (in subsequent posts) means they're scum together or Gamma is town.
makes me feel slightly better about a Penguin lynch, scum Gamma never tries for a Penguin townread here on town Penguin.

[Chara]

me: scum gamma never townreads town penguin.
Varsoon: *gladiates penguin*

[Chara]

damn it. correcting it now isn't as funny.

[Chara]

when Gamma tried to avoid lynching Penguin, there was

no

scenario where Gamma was scum with town Penguin. none at all.

[Chara]

that means gladiating Penguin would be the correct choice, especially after i'd just pointed that out. Varsoon not doing so and trying to capitalize off of Gamma's bad posting there before the tide changed is really scummy.

[Chara]

The fact that Gamma's several last posts weren't just a Penguin gladiate was enough for me
The back-to-back Nancy shading with the posturing after sealed it for me.

scum Gamma not gladiating town Penguin there would be a death sentence and you know that. Penguin was the correct gladiate.

[Chara]

if they're partners that's fine. if they

aren't

partners, Gamma made the ridiculous decision of saying he would scumread Nancy when he could just gladiate Penguin and win. there's no world where scum Gamma thinks Nancy's an easier 1v1 target.

[Chara]

Varsoon's just confirmed for me that he isn't partners with Gamma. (decision to give up winning this day phase and bus notwithstanding, and also irrelevant for now since it means both lynching decisions are correct)
so, operating in a world where our lynch decision still matters, Varsoon and Gamma aren't scum together. one of them is partnered with Penguin, and either Nancy or Dunnstral. that means my reads

were

wrong. (in the case they're trying to win.)

[Chara]

but i'll save that for the next day phase if we get to it.
Varsoon vs. Gamma, Varsoon knew i wouldn't be on his side and gladiated anyway. it was probably in reaction to my threat to gladiate him.
i'm at a party at the moment, but i'd like thoughts from players who aren't Varsoon or Gamma about this. i'll try to check in.

[Chara]

and remember that scum only needs one townie voting incorrectly to win. my current guess is they don't have daytalk (i'll need to check the rules as i forget) but coordinating a hammer is still possible when it's only two players.

[Chara]

@Chara: Or Gamma and Penguin are just scum together and he's got to shade Nancy in the event that he does eventually gladiate-bus Penguin, but they were definitely going for a run-down-the-clock victory with both slots set up to gladiate each other refusing to gladiate while being very absent from the game thread.

and you didn't gladiate Penguin... why?

[Chara]

it looks to me like you were trying to capitalize on Gamma's Nancy-shading by quickly gladiating and hoping she would vote with you.
believe me, if you're town i'm trying to find it, but this has all the makings of you having to make some kind of play before you or Penguin are gladiated by (probably), me. and Penguin would lose a 1v1 between him and Gamma, too.

[Chara]

i've decided to vote Varsoon. scares the heck out of me but there we are.

[Chara]

if they're partners that's fine. if they

aren't

partners, Gamma made the ridiculous decision of saying he would scumread Nancy when he could just gladiate Penguin and win. there's no world where scum Gamma thinks Nancy's an easier 1v1 target.

He wouldn’t win because scum needs to mislynch. Wtf is wrong with you here? I’m once again questioning my tr on you.

did you miss "if they aren't partners"?
if they're (Gamma and Penguin) partners it's fine, i just said that.
my point is if they aren't partners, Gamma's the one who would be town of the two, due to avoiding the Penguin gladiate and trying to go after you instead. scum Gamma town Penguin = Gamma wanting to lynch Penguin and win. if they are partners they're both scum. i guess that's possible but Varsoon's decision to gladiate Gamma here really throws me unless it's a bus attempt.

and acknowledgement from me that you aren't confirmed town =/= a scumread.

[Chara]

I will say this again and again - as many times as necessary for buildings to fall on some people - *cough* Chara *cough*.

TOWN!GAMMA NEVER GLADIATES ME HERE!!!

town gamma didn't gladiate you!! nobody did!!! you are not gladiated!!

[Chara]

if they're partners that's fine. if they

aren't

partners, Gamma made the ridiculous decision of saying he would scumread Nancy when he could just gladiate Penguin and win. there's no world where scum Gamma thinks Nancy's an easier 1v1 target.

Who is the scumteam then Chara? Dunn, you, me and Gamma, can’t all be town?

i was thinking Dunn/Varsoon/Penguin.
if it's Gamma/Penguin/Varsoon then i think Varsoon is trying to bus but i find this less likely.

[Chara]

i'm saying if they are NOT partners, then Gamma is town and Penguin is scum, due to him trying to avoid gladiating Penguin. the only other option i'd consider is them being scumpartners. meaning Penguin was objectively the better lynch.

[Chara]

Varsoon's arguing that there's a world where Gamma is scum with Penguin town, and Gamma didn't just take the Penguin mislynch we would have handed him. that's what i take ssue with.

[Chara]

i need to go to sleep.
not sure if it's worth it to wait for tomorrow morning to vote, because even if Kokichi agrees with me i'm not sure Nancy will. so hopefully Gamma's scum and i'm wrong, which does happen a lot.

[Chara]

And I can’t see any world where town!Gamma would want to gladiate me over Penguin. Can you?

if he believed his own argument about NK15 and the bussing. town can be wrong. that's the problem with being town.

[Chara]

I’m not really seeing how this gladiate benefits scum!Varsoon, considering that he just messed up his chance of winning. I did initially think, possible towncred but the fact is that if Gamma had gladiated me and either got me mislynched or caused a no lynch, he would win, right?

you're missing the part where i threatened to gladiate Varsoon if he didn't convince me he was town/convince me that either you or Dunnstral were scum. (becausw if you're both town Varsoon had to be scum.)
gladiating Gamma means now it's Gamma vs. Varsoon instead of me vs. Varsoon.

Varsoon couldn't have afforded to hope that Gamma would gladiate you instead. for one, Gamma never committed to doing so, he only said you might be scum. two, i might have gladiated Varsoon first.

[Chara]

Not THIS wrong. Town!Gamma never considers gladiating me here. Whatever Varsoon is, I am not w/w with him, so what is scum!Varsoon’s motive for stopping Gamma from gladiating me?

how do you know Gamma was

actually

going to gladiate you?

[Chara]

Not Known 15 [7] -

SirCakez

, PenguinPower, Dunnstral, Nancy Drew 39,

Kokichi Oma

,

Auro

,

MariaR

[LYNCH]

I kinda wanna gladiate nancy because that's probably where a bus would lie

he said he wanted to, it's not really the same thing.
if town, it's just Gamma being wrong and looking for feedback. if scum i'd call this move his big misplay.

[Chara]

Okay wait, WHY aren’t you scum with Varsoon? ACTUAL interactions, nothing else.

from Nancy's pov she isn't scum with Varsoon. obviously. she doesn't need to argue about her own interactions with another player.

for what it's worth they do have some positive w/w interactions, but Nancy is very strong town so she isn't scum with him.

[Chara]

How do you know he wasn’t?

Shoud have we taken the chance?

It not like it’s reversible.

Varsoon gladiating Gamma is also not reversible.
and if Gamma is scum and he'd succeeded in gladiating you...
who cares?
really, who cares?
Gamma would lose that and be lynched. i'd obviously vote for him. so would Varsoon if town. Dunnstral absolutely would. and i'd bet Kokichi would at that point too.
Varsoon didn't protect anyone from anything, really. he just made it so it's him vs. Gamma instead of you vs. Gamma.

[Chara]

Chara, why does Varsoon stop me gladiating Namcy if we’re both town? That instaloses the game for town.

i've been thinking about that since Nancy brought it up. to me it didn't sound like you'd committed to making the gladiate yet, as evidenced by you... well, not gladiating her. but Nancy did have a strong reaction to it and i think Varsoon thought he could take the win thanks to it.

[Chara]

How? Who is his buddy then? Dunn? Because unless you think Varsoon, Dunn and Penguin are a team, how does he win here?

that's exactly what i was saying i thought.

[Chara]

and this is why Penguin was the better choice. Gamma's only scum if Penguin is. that's what i was saying.
i should have gladiated Penguin immediately after Gamma argued for him being town.

[Chara]

Actually he only wins in the case of my mislynch or no lynch, so why does scum!Varsoon try to stop this? It’s LYLO afterall?

If we mislynch or no lynch, scum has no further need for towncred.

Gamma said "i kinda wanna gladiate Nancy".
i said "i'm going to gladiate Varsoon".

does scum Varsoon sit around and hope Gamma goes through with gladiating you in spite of players who townread you arguing against it? or does he do something to avoid me gladiating him?

that's the last question i'm asking tonight. i'll vote in the morning.

[Chara]

good morning everybody! everything always looks better in the morning.
sorry Dunn, with 3 scum alive in 7 players, you're going to be affected by what others do. you're only town right now if Varsoon's bussing and that's just a fact.

Varsoon: well, hopefully you're town then and stopped me from doing something stupid. still wish it had been Penguin instead of Gamma so i didn't need tk worry about it.

[Chara]

i still don't trust Varsoon at all. he hasn't really done anything outside of his scumrange or dropped what i'd use to town him.
i think he's the better lynch. Gamma's up in the air and i think he could have made a bad VCA call, if i had a gun Varsoon's who i shoot.
not up to me, though. as Penguin pointed out, i'm no town leader. ;>
i should have started trying hard before LYLO, not during it.

[Chara]

i know. what's your decision?

[Chara]

i'm asking who you want to lynch. or... any opinions would actually have been great. taking a backseat here doesn't really cut it, Kokichi.
we don't really have a lot of time left. i guess it's Gamma.

[Chara]

i know that was your opinion before, was sort of hoping it might have changed.
VOTE: Gamma

[Chara]

ugh. i'm sorry. should i have fought longer? maybe actually voting Varsoon would have helped. i dropped the ball so many times here. gladiate Penguin, gladiate Varsoon when i said i would. i'm so damn wishy washy.

[Chara]

it'd be less frustrating to just have had wrong reads. this confidence problem fucks with me in so many games.
good game scum. sorry town.

[Chara]

i'd have liked to read it anyway, FakeGod. i hate everything about what i did this game.

[Chara]

kind of afraid to read the dead PT, honestly. gah. why'd i give up?

[Chara]

ugh. i'm sorry. should i have fought longer? maybe actually voting Varsoon would have helped. i dropped the ball so many times here. gladiate Penguin, gladiate Varsoon when i said i would. i'm so damn wishy washy.

Chara we did have day talk and we had just coordinated the hammer anyway

Scum pt can be released

even without you and Penguin ready to drop the hammer, Nancy wouldn't have even been able to vote Gamma if i'd gladiated Varsoon when i thought about doing so. or Penguin.
at least choosing to vote Gamma when i did didn't affect the outcome, but i still fucked up.

[Chara]

i'll read the dead thread later.

[Chara]

i'll be honest i didn't even read most of the game before i replaced in. i just knew there was a lot of town gladiating town because of fake merlin and sword claims. none of it seemed good for finding scum because every gladiate lead to a town lead either way. probably should have but eh.
i'm really mad at myself but i'll get over it.

[Chara]

ok, i expected more yelling in the dead thread, but half of them thought i was scum. so. cool.
alright, i'm calm. i've learned from this. i am a leaf on the wind.

[Chara]

ugh. i'm sorry. should i have fought longer? maybe actually voting Varsoon would have helped. i dropped the ball so many times here. gladiate Penguin, gladiate Varsoon when i said i would. i'm so damn wishy washy.

Townlocking Dunn, was our biggest mistake. Sorry Gamma.

If you had agreed to gladiate Penguin, things might have turned out differently.

it wasn't. i was taking Dunn being scum into account with my reads, i unfortunately just didn't go through with either of the gladiates due to being terrible.
but it's something to learn from.

[Chara]

i'm also not going to be changing my mind about Maria's read accuracy on Dunn. i think Dunn is right here.
i started to think i was wrong on that townread partway through the Day... but, as Varsoon said i need to be more confident.

[Chara]

the problem really was not just that Gamma didn't townread you. it was your reaction to it as well. Varsoon's gladiate was really scummy and we still could have won there.
not saying i didn't screw up, but i don't really think it's all on Gamma there. you're also very sensitive to other's reads on you and Varsoon used that. you had Gamma scum entirely because he was suspicious of you for a moment, and your read on me boiled down to townreading me when i called you town, and then getting suspicious again as soon as i said i might not be sure.

[Chara]

and you also could have gladiated Penguin. any town could have.

[Chara]

and fwiw, those others who could see you were obvtown were both scum, besides me.