Newbie 1910: Aerial Photography [Game Over!]

[northsidegal]

VC 1.02

votes

[3] moonythedwarf

:

GrandWazoo 9, GuiltyLion 18, the worst 21

[2] JunkoChan

:

Nineja 45, YellowSnow 47

[1] Nineja

:

ceejayvinoya 19

[3] Not Voting

:

computerfan0, moonythedwarf, JunkoChan 34

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch

The Day 1 deadline is in

: (expired on 2019-01-07 04:02:59)

Mod Notes

:

[Nineja]

I'll just vote for Nineja, as there is no real way to make an informed decision
VOTE: Nineja

Rather than just place a vote somewhere because info isn't coming to you it would be better used if you took that vote and went to go find info yourself. While I'm on the topic and since this is the first time that you've talked (that I know of if you talked before I'm sorry) computerfan0 What do you think of JunkoChan? I'd like to specifically hear what you have to say about them since that vote came at such a weird time.

[JunkoChan]

I also don't like Chan being against replacements. What's the alternative.

I was talking about rhis recently, modkills are better imo, i'm okay with tour replaxement cuz it was an early one, but mis game end gane replacements are so annoying.

Just a personal thought

Modkills being better than replacements is definitely scum mindset. Replacements are more likely to town especially early on.

Like i said is a personal thought, first game I played had like 7 replacements and it just came up as annoying to me

Clarification I don't mind random voting, I don't like being voted for no reason, I had a reason he was still inactive

about the logic behind that, people asking for mechanics rather than focusing on what's going on more often than not are scum gaining time

I understand the logic behind this, but IMO this is scum trying to gain an early game town read on the players by "scumhunting". I lost my original type up for why I explained this right when I was about to send it (yay mobile thank you for so much >_>) so this one wont be as detailed but imma try my best to remember my old points. anyways I think this is scum because in JunkoChan words scum is "gaining time" or in otherwords stalling, but scum wouldnt benefit from stalling day 1 of all days especially when we have 8 days left in the DL. Scum would benefit from getting early game townreads/allowing the game to let them townlead which I think JunkoChan is trying to do. At first I thought this was to shift attention and votes off moonythedwarf, who has the most votes at the moment but now that I look at it its too early into day 1 to consider a shift like that, so for now I'll just stick with Mafia trying to gain early game town cred. You could make the arguement that this post was filler or just there to make a post but I doubt mafia would filler early game because they know just as much as we do rn about who is what (in other words very little) so they need to use their time wisely in order to get as much information as possible before we as a Town lynch them.

gain time as in post to not get proded

[GrandWazoo]

I think I get it now Junko. You think I made a dummy post to avoid being prodded. I've explained my reasons behind that post, and the fear of getting prodded was definitely not among them. I was bored, and was trying to jump start a game and get it out of RVS (which you dislike anyway). Which is what happened.

I dislike inactive players as much as anyone, but modkilling rather replacing them is at best anti-town and at worst scumthink.

[the worst]

Clarification I don't mind random voting, I don't like being voted for no reason, I had a reason he was still inactive

about the logic behind that, people asking for mechanics rather than focusing on what's going on more often than not are scum gaining time

I'd be really interested to find out why it struck you that this might be a thing that he's doing as scum. You're more or less right, in that when people over-focus on mechanics at the expense of scumhunting, it's often because they're scum who don't want to fake reads.

What do you make of the fact that his request for a vote count was his fourth post, which came after an rvs vote and his questions @ you about your history? I'm trying to see if I can insert my brain behind your eyes and read his posts the way you're reading them. Talk me through how you went through parsing his first four posts and reached the "mechanics focus, probably scum" conclusion?

I also don't like Chan being against replacements. What's the alternative.

I was talking about rhis recently, modkills are better imo, i'm okay with tour replaxement cuz it was an early one, but mis game end gane replacements are so annoying.

Just a personal thought

From a theory point of view I'd strongly disagree, and suggest it's pretty far from the way MS approaches balancing games.

At a mechanical/fairness level, games need to be balanced in a way that either faction can afford to win. if town has an important power role who is vital to balance, but can't play due to commitments, a game becomes heavily scumsided by their being modkilled.

But also, in a perfect world there wouldn't be replacements, I agree.

[JunkoChan]

Clarification I don't mind random voting, I don't like being voted for no reason, I had a reason he was still inactive

about the logic behind that, people asking for mechanics rather than focusing on what's going on more often than not are scum gaining time

I'd be really interested to find out why it struck you that this might be a thing that he's doing as scum. You're more or less right, in that when people over-focus on mechanics at the expense of scumhunting, it's often because they're scum who don't want to fake reads.

What do you make of the fact that his request for a vote count was his fourth post, which came after an rvs vote and his questions @ you about your history? I'm trying to see if I can insert my brain behind your eyes and read his posts the way you're reading them. Talk me through how you went through parsing his first four posts and reached the "mechanics focus, probably scum" conclusion?

I also don't like Chan being against replacements. What's the alternative.

I was talking about rhis recently, modkills are better imo, i'm okay with tour replaxement cuz it was an early one, but mis game end gane replacements are so annoying.

Just a personal thought

From a theory point of view I'd strongly disagree, and suggest it's pretty far from the way MS approaches balancing games.

At a mechanical/fairness level, games need to be balanced in a way that either faction can afford to win. if town has an important power role who is vital to balance, but can't play due to commitments, a game becomes heavily scumsided by their being modkilled.

But also, in a perfect world there wouldn't be replacements, I agree.

I should not post while sleepy I make a lot of typos


you said he had 4 posts, while true let me break them up to you

1 rvs vote
2 off topic discussion about my time in the page
1 vote count after 1 page???

so he basicly has 1 post and one weird post from my pov

[the worst]

I'm gonna drop a readlist because I like readlists. They kinda help me calibrate and are a good point of reference for me when I have further thoughts on someone's slot (like if I thought "oh hey that post guiltylion made looks quite scummy", I like being able to swing back to a snippet of where my brain was at last time I thought through everything so I can check myself back - "no maybe he's just town", or "wow maybe he is scum!")

this is something like how I usually format my lists; if any of you want to take a similar approach to weighing/calibrating your reads please feel free to. totally optional and a playstyle thing, however.

conftown (role pm): {tw}
townread: GrandWazoo
leaning town: GuiltyLion
nulltown: YellowSnow, Nineja
null: computerfan0, moonythedwarf, ceejayvinoya
nullscum:
leaning scum: JunkoChan
scumread:


if anyone wants to talk to me / question me about these as well, let me know.

[the worst]

I should not post while sleepy I make a lot of typos


you said he had 4 posts, while true let me break them up to you

1 rvs vote
2 off topic discussion about my time in the page
1 vote count after 1 page???

so he basicly has 1 post and one weird post from my pov

don't worry about it Typos Happen

let's work through your thoughts on his discussion about your time onsite/mafia history - do you think this comes from someone who doesn't know your alignment and wants to get a gauge of how you play the game to discern your alignment? or do you think it's more likely to come from someone who already knows your alignment?

[JunkoChan]

I should not post while sleepy I make a lot of typos


you said he had 4 posts, while true let me break them up to you

1 rvs vote
2 off topic discussion about my time in the page
1 vote count after 1 page???

so he basicly has 1 post and one weird post from my pov

don't worry about it Typos Happen

let's work through your thoughts on his discussion about your time onsite/mafia history - do you think this comes from someone who doesn't know your alignment and wants to get a gauge of how you play the game to discern your alignment? or do you think it's more likely to come from someone who already knows your alignment?

At the beginning I thought he tried to gauge me, but after that post his words sound more like he wants to make sure if I'm strong or weak while already knowing my alignment to pick up on who might be a better possible "newbie" target is my guess, this is all a stretch and probably would call it a hunch more than anything, that's why I didn't vote him right away.

[the worst]

Hmm okay. How do you feel about yellowsnow and GuiltyLion?

[JunkoChan]

Hmm okay. How do you feel about yellowsnow and GuiltyLion?

about yellowsnow, I'm leaning towards town cuz he seems to be genuinely scumhunting although he missunderstood some things I said

about Guiltylion I got null cuz even though he agreed with me about grandwazoo's post he backed down after one post from grandwazoo, and hasn't said much since then, also appealing to simpathy with a post like #18 makes my spider sense go hmmmm

[the worst]

Spoiler:

Clarification I don't mind random voting, I don't like being voted for no reason, I had a reason he was still inactive

about the logic behind that, people asking for mechanics rather than focusing on what's going on more often than not are scum gaining time

I understand the logic behind this, but IMO this is scum trying to gain an early game town read on the players by "scumhunting". I lost my original type up for why I explained this right when I was about to send it (yay mobile thank you for so much >_>) so this one wont be as detailed but imma try my best to remember my old points. anyways I think this is scum because in JunkoChan words scum is "gaining time" or in otherwords stalling, but scum wouldnt benefit from stalling day 1 of all days especially when we have 8 days left in the DL. Scum would benefit from getting early game townreads/allowing the game to let them townlead which I think JunkoChan is trying to do. At first I thought this was to shift attention and votes off moonythedwarf, who has the most votes at the moment but now that I look at it its too early into day 1 to consider a shift like that, so for now I'll just stick with Mafia trying to gain early game town cred. You could make the arguement that this post was filler or just there to make a post but I doubt mafia would filler early game because they know just as much as we do rn about who is what (in other words very little) so they need to use their time wisely in order to get as much information as possible before we as a Town lynch them.

UNVOTE: ceejayvinoya
VOTE: JunkoChan

By the way, YellowSnow what do you mean by trying to gain newbie sympathy? It seemed like a random vote that you need to explain more imo I'd like more detail on what exactly you mean.

how did you feel about this post?--can you see where the perspective clashes come from etc.? Feel free to talk through a few points which like evoke a strong reaction from you. I was curious to see how you'd take this kinda push.

[JunkoChan]

Spoiler:

Clarification I don't mind random voting, I don't like being voted for no reason, I had a reason he was still inactive

about the logic behind that, people asking for mechanics rather than focusing on what's going on more often than not are scum gaining time

I understand the logic behind this, but IMO this is scum trying to gain an early game town read on the players by "scumhunting". I lost my original type up for why I explained this right when I was about to send it (yay mobile thank you for so much >_>) so this one wont be as detailed but imma try my best to remember my old points. anyways I think this is scum because in JunkoChan words scum is "gaining time" or in otherwords stalling, but scum wouldnt benefit from stalling day 1 of all days especially when we have 8 days left in the DL. Scum would benefit from getting early game townreads/allowing the game to let them townlead which I think JunkoChan is trying to do. At first I thought this was to shift attention and votes off moonythedwarf, who has the most votes at the moment but now that I look at it its too early into day 1 to consider a shift like that, so for now I'll just stick with Mafia trying to gain early game town cred. You could make the arguement that this post was filler or just there to make a post but I doubt mafia would filler early game because they know just as much as we do rn about who is what (in other words very little) so they need to use their time wisely in order to get as much information as possible before we as a Town lynch them.

UNVOTE: ceejayvinoya
VOTE: JunkoChan

By the way, YellowSnow what do you mean by trying to gain newbie sympathy? It seemed like a random vote that you need to explain more imo I'd like more detail on what exactly you mean.

how did you feel about this post?--can you see where the perspective clashes come from etc.? Feel free to talk through a few points which like evoke a strong reaction from you. I was curious to see how you'd take this kinda push.

I understand the logic behind this, but IMO this is scum trying to gain an early game town read on the players by "scumhunting"- This is what every mafia player does regardless of alignment so feels like a forced read

anyways I think this is scum because in JunkoChan words scum is "gaining time" or in otherwords stalling- like I already said it fels like he missunderstood my point, stalling is not the same as just posting for the sake of it

I can see where he is coming from tho so doesn't strike me as odd

[northsidegal]

Prodding ceejayvinoya and moonythedwarf.

[GrandWazoo]

I'm gonna drop a readlist because I like readlists. They kinda help me calibrate and are a good point of reference for me when I have further thoughts on someone's slot (like if I thought "oh hey that post guiltylion made looks quite scummy", I like being able to swing back to a snippet of where my brain was at last time I thought through everything so I can check myself back - "no maybe he's just town", or "wow maybe he is scum!")

I appreciate the vote of confidence and all, but I try to resist reads this early in the game, esp. with several players having barely posted at all. In my experience at least this leads to confbias --> tunneling --> mislynches. Junko is a prime example of a player whose individual posts give a whiff of scum, but whose overall behavior to this point does not.

Which is not to say that readlists are bad at all, and if they help your thought process (and town's) then by all means do them. My approach is to withhold judgment until all players are accounted for, do a re-read of the game and then develop leads. That way I can gauge players' behavior in a macro way without getting overly invested in NAI details.

[YellowSnow]

My townlist right now includes GW, the worst, ninja and me.

[moonythedwarf]

Ok so i guess my post didnt go through. Aww.

[ceejayvinoya]

Sorry. I got busy with the holidays. Let's see what I could do...

[ceejayvinoya]

Mod - can we have a vote count? I wanna see another purty picture

Weird post, but not something I would post as scum. This post doesn't really indicate alignment imo.

[ceejayvinoya]

Leaning town on nineja for his post 45. Yellowsnow might also be town but that's a bit of a stretch.

[ceejayvinoya]

@worst!

I'm curious about your GrandWazoo townread, all I see is self defense and boredom.

Open my eyes to his towniness.

[ceejayvinoya]

I'm leaning town on Wazoo for his latest post but I kinda wanna see which of his earlier post made you go "hmm this guy is town"

[GrandWazoo]

Ok so i guess my post didnt go through. Aww.

Can we get some more votes on this tool?

[moonythedwarf]

Voting for being a derp is rude.
Aaaanyways, why are you so insistent on voting me in the first place? Hmm?
VOTE: GrandWazoo

[GrandWazoo]

Easy...voted you in RVS and haven't seen any reason to unvote you. Your OMGUS vote did you no favors.