Newbie 1909 | Scheme | Over

[Plotinus]

Official Vote Count 1.10 quine

In computer science, a quine is a program that when you run it, it outputs its own sourcecode. In some languages they're difficult to construct. but in Scheme it is quite easy. The output of a file helloworld.scm containing only the text "Hello World" will output "Hello World" because a quoted string is self-evaluating. It both is, and contains, the string "Hello World".

We'll get back to recreational mathematics in the next vote count but I am preparing this before I go to bed in anticipation that it should be posted right when I wake up.

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Lynching

With 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to lynch.

Amzela

(3): EGL, u r a person 2, Child

dicideaq

(2): Loopdan, Amzela

Loopdan

(1): dicideaq

Not Voting

(3): Emperor flippyNips, teacher, Clemency

Deadline:

(expired on 2019-01-06 08:45:00).

Mod notes:

Keep it fun![/area]

[Clemency]

ah sorry i thought i answered these
i've been busy over new years coming and stuff

@teacher are you asking my opinion on amzela or Clem his opinion on me?

Clem on you.

i don't think he's posted enough for me to give a clear read or anything yet
but i like him

How fast would you say you normally form reads?

@Clem?

slower than most
i'm pretty anxious about forming an actual scumread on someone especially since i have a habit of hard-tunneling

@Clem, What do you think of Teacher's reads?

i think they're right :p

[Child]

@child - have your views on Clem evolved? Where/why?

not really. none of his posts are that amazing to change my mind, still a scumread. it seems that he is doing some sort of play but i dont really understand it at all.

Then why did you follow him onto that wagon rather than push him? I just find it odd youd join a wagon with your biggest SR without saying there has been an evolution.

i don't find it weird at all. i have two scumreads, i am gonna vote on either one, even if one is voting on another.

But you had earlier said your scumreads were Dici and Clem, with a lean on Dan. You unvoted Dici and immediately jumped to a wagon that had momentum, but was not even on your past radar. So youd have to have gotten over the Clem read, be willing to join a wagon with him on it, AND gotten over the Dan read, all without commenting on either your Clem or Dan evolution.

i read amzela since she was top wagon, to defend her or to help out push her. it does not matter to me if my other scumread voted amzela at any given point, because i do not look at them as a team. post 266 explains my read on dici and forms my read on amzela, and i have already told you my read on clemency has not changed. the very next post after my catchup posts says i have a null read on loopdan, worst case scenario scumlean. I commented on everything so far. If you do not like these comments, that is fine, my playstyle is different.

i am reading them as separate people and isolating them

Sorry, we now have two threads going. I actually dont mind this so much (the treating Am/Clem as separate reads) so much as what appeared to be an opportunistic wagon jump that was entirely inconsistent with your top 3 scumreads from just a few pages earlier. If that many people are on your scumscope, you might want to get it checked since htere are only 2 in the game, meaning you should target at most 3 reads....

but i said already that loop is a nullread, and dici is not pushworthy and his inactivity is NAI.. i have 2 scumreads, 1 if you count loop being nullread/scumlean.

Whole Board Reads (in order from 0)

Spoiler: Child

Scumread. I already talked mindmelding with Dan's 191 commentary on the entry, and personally finding 169 even more jarring. But I also REALLY didnt like the 266 and 267 evolution to voting Amzela just as that wagon caught steam. Here is why. Child's 168 gave Dici alot of scumpoints when that was a popular thing to do, but did NOT vote him. Child claimed it was because Dici was at L-1, but Dici wasnt - as the votecount above Child's post (with no votes in between) showed.

ok, so that explains why i didn't vote already.

In other words, Child's actions did not match his words, and the purported reason for the gap was false. Then, when the "L-1" scare was removed, Child claims to have lost the scumread of Dici -- WITH ABSOLUTELY NO POSTS in the interim. Sorry, flaking out of a game is slightly +rand scum, so this reason to lose a scumread doesnt hold water to me -- especially if you jump over two previous scumleans (Clem and Loopdan) without commentary, to join a momentum wagon on a slot (Amzela) that was OFF what you now claim to see as a mislynch wagon (Dici). Nothing about this vote and evolution makes sense. Nothing. But it does give momentum to a wagon on a slot I feel better about being town than Dici.

i posted why i did not read dici in my post on amzela. slightly +rand scum isn't enough of a reason for me to actually lynch someone. I also posted why i think amzela is scum.

If you dislike the amzela wagon, push a CFD on me or dici. Don't be a bystander.

[EGL]

CFD?

[teacher]

11am EST

see you soon.

[teacher]

CFD?

Candidate for discussion? I dont know, never seen this one either.

[teacher]

push a CFD on me or dici. Don't be a bystander.

Calling me a bystander is horribly misrepresentative of my level of participation. Just because Im not voting doesnt mean Im not playing. Also, I'd much rather have Dici lynched than you, and think I can push that through later -- Id rather spend some time nowd sorting outside my reads in case Im wrong.

[Amzela]

And with that, @teacher, if you want to start live-chatting, here I am!

[teacher]

Cheerio! Hope the family is enjoying the holidays.

Who is your scumread outside of Dici?

[teacher]

(I was going to ask why you were resisting an avatar - something that had actually factored into my townread of you, since I thought scum would have bent to my/clem's requests, but here you appear with a penguin and just spoil my first question )

[Amzela]

Well, my scumread was Loopdan based on the self-vote, but after looking at your posts, I'm now... unsure. What you said about Child and Child's reactions are interesting and, though i am biased because it was a wagon on me, I'm starting to think more about the discrepancies of when he first entered the game. Maybe it is a tell?

The reason why I'm wavering on Loop is because of the jokingness that seems to get tossed around early game. If Loop plays the way they do, then that's their play style.

I'm also cautious about claiming scum on Dici, especially given the whole last login for a long while was right after he posted. But he has seemed to have logged in at 1:45 am MST, so now I'm unsure.
You are right about the whole jumping the gun thing with regards to being the 3rd person to post, but it could be convenient timing?

Also sorry for raining on your parade with regards to the avatar. Resistance was because Cerbv666 didn't have one and I happen to be dating the man, the myth, the legend. But I'm also a strong independent woman that needs all the help she can get with figuring out who is who.

[teacher]

No worries at all - I saw the dating thing in the intro and managed to go figure out who that was

I appreciate the honesty on the SR. I was troubled by the SR of loopdan, but voting Dici, right after LD on the wagon and as a slot you had been defending. It seemed survivalistic.

You have played with Clem before - does he "feel" the same or different to you here?

[Amzela]

I'm honestly really bad at scumhunting outside of trusting my gut. It's a skill I'll be practicing further, but it seems like I land myself in a lot of scummy-looking situations, so I'll be using that as a guide for my play.

I have played very briefly with Clem. He unfortunately replaced into a wagon that was already building pretty heavily and he got hammered early. I have a lot of trouble reading Clem and based solely on this game, I feel weird about him sheeping onto wagons so easily, since he didn't do any voting the last game, but I'm not sure what that means. I also was completely and utterly confused the first game because 26 players and Alonzo was memeing and there were several replaces and several fights. I have

no idea

how I made it to then end because I coasted a lot.

Speaking of that, what is your read on Clem and LoopDan?

[teacher]

Also, another thing I had been giving you towny points for was 213's reaching back to answer my clarifying question about 141. I appreciated the answer - which to me weakened your position in light of the suspicions that had already been aired. It also seemed like a genuine answer of someone who remembered being asked something, but not by whom. But I was curious that you made 203 before this - was that just a mobile pop-in before rereading the thread?

NAI question, what is an anumu?

AI repeat of another slot's question for you - see 258

Finally, feel free to ask me anything at all as well.

[teacher]

@337

Looking scummy can be a good play for town, as it avoids the NK. Just make sure your reads are good enough to warrant the survival. And trusting your gut as to who sounds real is probably what alot of it boils down to -- everybody is inconsistent, the question is whether inconsistencies make sense.

Thanks for the dets on your history with clem.

My read on Clem is that he basically must either be town or partnered with you. I cannot come up with a scum motivation to derail your wagon otherwise. There is a town block forming that I am pretty confident in, so scum!clem derailing town!your wagon would likely put his partner at risk of being wagonned next. I didnt like the fact that he has a lot of bland meh-town reads that allow the flexibility scum want, but I can see a personality consistency there.

[teacher]

@337

Finally, my read of loop dan is complicated. I think he has played pro-town, but not outside of a power!wolf range either. Like I dont like the self-vote, particularly in the newb-queue, because it can (like I said) blow up a wagon to the point that it never returns. But I can also see the town motivations for it. I can also see the town motivations for alot of his other questions, including 258 to you, and the L-1 question to me. He was right that I *should* have had something to say, even if I didnt see it at the time, so checking into it -despite an earlier townread- makes quite a bit of sense. At bottom, I think we are both at a similar place with the other: Town for now, but definitely willing to revisit as needed.

[Amzela]

Dear lord. I'm all over the place. My feel of Clem is that he's playing differently because he's actually voting, but it doesn't really say anything given the chaos of our initial interaction. I have no lean on him and generally look at him through the lens of "confused".

Re: mobile pop-in
I almost only play on mobile because I'm out-and-about so much. I like to address one-off questions in general to get people answers because it's polite. It's also a self-iso marker for me so that I know where I left off because I'm very scatter-brained. I am on a computer today though!

Re: Anumu

Nothing. What's the anumu with you?
(I honestly have no idea. Where are you getting that question from?)

Re: 258

@Both you and Loop, in reference to my own post, the reason I feel like comboing 234 and 237 made me look scummy was that there is a mention of hammering dici, and then I voted. Hammering = voting in my mind, and it just felt like I did something stupid even though I wasn't hammering Dici. This probably also stemmed from residual bad feelings about my portrayal of myself for defending him and then voting for him. If I were reading me, I would be super confused.

Thanks for pointing that out to me! I miss questions a lot.

I have all sorts of complicated feelings towards Dici. Given that he's only posted twice and I was severely, severely intimidated by the original game I played, I want to give breathing room. In my first game, there was a point in time where two day-night cycles passed before I even had a chance to post again because people were hammering so quickly. But no two games are alike, and as people said, I should let Dici defend himself. Doesn't help that I read Dici as scum. Anyways, complicated, like I said.
I'll be more confident once he or his slot starts posting.

Questions

1. I'm really curious about roles and how games usually try and figure out roles. We know we have a very specific set-up, and I was wondering if there's a general timeline for when we start parsing those out. How does someone even start doing that?
>> reasons for asking: role sorting really helped me figuring out what was going on my first game, and power roles seemed to be talked a lot as super important in games. I know this looks like me trying to switch topics which leads me to my second question...

2. Timing. Are there general timing rules for question asking?

3. I'm still trying to make heads or tails of your SR of Child, taken into account that he's a new player. Could he not just be jumping onto wagons?

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Unrelated to the chat with Teacher, whoever said to not leave Mafia, I'm working on it! Just get intimidated easily as well as worked up easily.

[teacher]

@amz - thanks for the time. I had hoped to get a little more back and forth, but am going to have to step away shortly, so I will look for your answers to 338, but may not be able to respond further at least in the short term.

@board- I have posted the things I was giving town points for (the avi, the reach back to answer a question even though not pressed), but really my light town of Amz boils down to a personality/charisma thing as well as a light associations thing. I like that she is trying, and posting thoughts. I can also see a fundamental consistency of thought with the personality I have constructed with her, even though it comes across with all the contradictions you have noted. Like, @EGL, I think there is 0 chance that Amz's "scared" comments come from scumchat with Dici, but also zero chance that she would be lampshady regarding her own reaction to a scum PM. Associationally, I have a hard time pairing her (though its only D1 so this gets v little weight)

Bottom line: I get why you are scumreading her, and I wont stand in your way. But I think town benefits more from flipping Dici's slot than hers today.

[teacher]

Re: Anumu

Nothing. What's the anumu with you?
(I honestly have no idea. Where are you getting that question from?)

your 213 - "yes i'm chuckling to myself about my animu judge me"

Questions

1. I'm really curious about roles and how games usually try and figure out roles. We know we have a very specific set-up, and I was wondering if there's a general timeline for when we start parsing those out. How does someone even start doing that?

It is generally considered bad form to start openly discussing potential PRs, as that just helps scum. For example, I think I have identified one but have never mentioned it until now. PRs can crumb if they choose, can claim if pressured, and can crumb any results they get so that even if they are NKed after a result but before a claim, the result can be found once their flip is known. There are several threads with recommended PR play for all of the roles we have, and they can generally be located in the wiki. As for Role-sorting, that can generally be discussed AFTER a claim, and in MYLO/LYLO type situations. Mafiascum stresses dayplay alot more than PR play, at least as compared to ToS and other sites, something I really like about it.

2. Timing. Are there general timing rules for question asking?

Nope. Generally, we will want to be at L-1 with intent about 3 days from the deadline to allow time for Role-claiming if any and a consensus secondary wagon to form if needed. But keep asking questions.

3. I'm still trying to make heads or tails of your SR of Child, taken into account that he's a new player. Could he not just be jumping onto wagons?

Sure he could. But that wouldnt explain the L-1 error with Dici. In a past game, Child stressed that he was smart enough to know wagon composition when explaining why he wasnt joining the D1 wagon, so I would be surprised if he simply miscounted. It seemed like a motivated reason not to vote Dici. In other words, part of my SR on child is associational, which is why I want Dici first.

****Now Im off for real******

[Amzela]

Thank you Teacher! I appreciate your analysis a lot. I really, really hope you're town. If you have any more questions, please let me know. I'll try and be less contradictory in the future and will read the wikis more.

Also, a note. Animu. Anime. 213, I had written this game/this life, which is a stupid joke about an anime called No Game No Life. I laugh at my own jokes.

[teacher]

i have 2 scumreads,

1 if you count loop being nullread/scumlean.

The bolded is just plain false, unless you are lying about your views on Clem and/or Amzela:

• URAP2 - absolutely no comments that I could find.
  
• Flippy - a greeting upon entry in 162, but again no analysis, comments, or questions.
  
• Dici - 168 - scumread. 186 - justifying it. 266 - retracting it for the sole reason of flaking (even though 327 appears to concede that flaking is in itself slightly scummy.) My take from your ISO is that this is a null-scum read.
  
• EGL - again no analysis, comments, or questions.
  
• Amzela - scumread, see 267
  
• Loopdan - "scumread" per 168, "null or a scumlean" per 169, and "nullread/scumlean" per 327
  
• Clem - "scumread" per 168, views not changed per 287
  
• Teacher - We've interacted a bunch, but no stated reads or analysis.

So, from this I have 2 scumreads - Clem and Amzela + 2 null-scums - Dici and Dan, and 0 townreads. This is such a scummy readslist, I cant begin. It gives you flexibility to join most of the wagons that have been mentioned today, and no commitment to positions for tomorrow.

Kindly provide reads and reasons.

[teacher]

Speaking of, through my chat with AMZ, I finished my own whole board list. IF anybody needs me to provide more depth or links on the Clem/Dan/Amz part of it, just ask.

[EGL]

Happy New Year's Eve everyone.

[teacher]

Happy New Year's Eve everyone.

And to you!

[EGL]

Thank you