Newbie 1912 [GAME COMPLETE]

[Enter]

A list of questions derived from my posts for you, @Loopdan (and some I came up with on the spot)

First and foremost, please define tunneling/confbias for me and explain to me how I am already convinced and blinded by reads I didn't even have when entering the game thread? I will almost be happy if you just explain this one at all because it will mean that you're not just using giant mafia words to sound like you know what you're talking about.

Why is your vote currently on PvtUrist?

Do you think sheeping is acceptable? If yes, provide circumstances/reasons.

If town has a time advantage over scum, but scum has an information advantage, why would you feel comfortable not scumhunting and instead sheeping someone else's vote?

Why were you thinking about Thespio when you posted asking why Skellen was town?

Why were you questioning why another player was town reading Skellen, when you had already said you were townreading her (and provided no information in the process)? Why in this process, did you take a noncommittal stance and imply you didn't particularly feel one way or another about skellen?

Why is your vote not currently on me, even though (according to you) my play is suboptimal as town and indicative of scum?

What do you hope to find my reading my meta?

In addition to this, please post a reads list.

[MagikHorse]

@Magik - Don't forget that other post where he categorizes his own play as tunneling NSG was posted 10 days ago. This inconsistency on how he views his play here is more than a curiosity.

He said "trying to tunnel" in that other game, which implies that he's telling the truth that he never quite felt like he really got into a full-blown tunnel as he planned and hurts that as an inconsistency, unless I think he's lying when he's already been hammered and the game lost for some reason. By that point I don't have much reason to expect lies from him.

I don't really see any reason why this tunnel (which was admittedly pretty small when you started calling it that) couldn't come from Town and has to come from Scum specifically, and that's my big hangup right now. Why is this a scum tunnel and not a town tunnel besides your flimsy meta reasonings?

[Loopdan]

Do you think sheeping is acceptable? If yes, provide circumstances/reasons.

Yes. When you don't have strong reads but want to assist a player you are TRing.

If town has a time advantage over scum, but scum has an information advantage, why would you feel comfortable not scumhunting and instead sheeping someone else's vote?

I think I've already answered this but ok. I wasn't comfortable with it. That's why I made clear in 127 that

This slow game-state is as much my fault as anyone's. I've been a bit pre-occupied with RL. I'll do my best to re-read and post some thoughts on all players in the morning.

Why were you thinking about Thespio when you posted asking why Skellen was town?

I mixed up two players names.

Your other questions are loaded, dumb, or have already been answered.

[Thespio]

Loopdan I think your misrepping him to a certain degree, we clashed and while you came up it’s because we discussed our scum reads. I think you make a good point if you flip town I’ll seriously go concider a PVT and Enter team. It will guarantee we get atleast 1 scum though, I think you are cornered and throwing wild punches, before I flipped you were nonchalant and showing low effort. It seems survivalistic, then I’m feeling Pvt, I’m not close to lynching Enter, if you picked a fight with him I might have flipped.

If you flip town I move from there.

[Loopdan]

Why is this a scum tunnel and not a town tunnel besides your flimsy meta reasonings?

I thought he was possibly just badtown until 277. The strat described there looks spot on.

[Loopdan]

Loopdan I think your misrepping him to a certain degree, we clashed and while you came up it’s because we discussed our scum reads. I think you make a good point if you flip town I’ll seriously go concider a PVT and Enter team. It will guarantee we get atleast 1 scum though, I think you are cornered and throwing wild punches, before I flipped you were nonchalant and showing low effort. It seems survivalistic, then I’m feeling Pvt, I’m not close to lynching Enter, if you picked a fight with him I might have flipped.

If you flip town I move from there.

Yeah I am probably pushing more than the situation warrants. That's a pretty typical reaction that I can admit to falling into.

Still, when someone posts 40 ridiculously lengthy posts about you in a short period of time, and basically ignores everyone else in the game (yes, I know he did engage with you in a few posts, too) it can get you going.

I'm not playing a gambit or trying to manipulate my way out of the lynch. I'm serious when I say you guys should vote me or Enter here.

[muh316]

Ok if I flip town who do you lynch?

Notice how he said

if

and not when. Almost like he's not even sure that he's town.

Will post more later, this one just caught my eye.

[Loopdan]

meh, that's rhetorical in context

In post 223, Thespio wrote:
@Enter, I have a question for you, say we flip Loopdan and hes town, whats your next course of action?


I will seriously reconsider my take on PvtUrist

Ok if I flip town who do you lynch?

Im rereading the game in between work (going very slow) just want to establish your PoE

[Thespio]

Ok if I flip town who do you lynch?

Notice how he said

if

and not when. Almost like he's not even sure that he's town.

Will post more later, this one just caught my eye.

It’s not a word game I was at work, that post took several tries to complete. Also it’s an If because I may not get flipped at all.

[MagikHorse]

So, just the flimsy meta reasoning then. If you find something else more substantial than what you've already thrown out to back it up and maybe I'll consider that argument, but you're not getting any closer to swaying me with this line. Think on things, take a break if you need to, then come back once you have something else, but this is just too reachey for me.

[Loopdan]

Magik - Check Muh's most recent post. That's what I was talking about when I said this...

What he is doing is popping in sporadically and selectively responding to the easy stuff.

He's voting me but has

nothing

to say about everything that has happened since his previous post (159)?

[Thespio]

Off work!

[MagikHorse]

Magik - Check Muh's most recent post. That's what I was talking about when I said this...

What he is doing is popping in sporadically and selectively responding to the easy stuff.

He's voting me but has

nothing

to say about everything that has happened since his previous post (159)?

Whatever happened to "Me or Enter today" from 291? Why suddenly redirect attention to Muh?

You're right that it's weird and pretty scummy, I'll cede that much, but this redirection of attention is just really, really strange given your stated determination to either take out Enter or die trying. I mean, you can't

ask

Muh what he thinks either?

@Muh, what exactly do you think about the case on Loop or the countercase on Enter? Is there anything you find noteworthy or odd about this whole 1v1 scenario they've built up? Any actual thoughts on the game in general even?

Like, seriously dude, you gotta quit lurking and actually start talking about the hot button topics instead of haphazardly poking at semantics.

[Nauci]

Vote Count 1.7

Thespio (3) -

PvtUrist 10

,

Munchmellow 140

,

Elements 149

Loopdan (3) -

Enter 130

,

muh316 158

,

Skellen 240

PvtUrist (1) -

Elements

11

,

Skellen

118

,

Loopdan

125

,

Thespio 181

Elements (1) -

Thespio

8

,

MagikHorse 286

Enter (1) -

Loopdan 281

UNVOTE/Not Voting -

Skellen

5

,

PvtUrist

5

,

Munchmellow

5

,

Elements

5

,

MagikHorse

5

,

Enter

5

,

muh316

5

,

Thespio

5

,

Loopdan

5

,

muh316

101

With 9 players alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch or not lynch.

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2019-01-21 05:00:00).

Mod Notes

PvtUrist has been prodded. He has (expired on 2019-01-15 14:00:00) to post game-relevant content before I begin seeking a replacement.

[muh316]

Wait, I'll post something soon. I'm just really busy with real life stuff. The walls of text don't help with that either.

[PvtUrist]

Looks like a lot has happened while I was away. Feel free to shoot me a few questions while I read through the new pages.

[Thespio]

Looks like a lot has happened while I was away. Feel free to shoot me a few questions while I read through the new pages.

I think you are scum, can you give a read on anyone? Read loopdan, what’s your thoughts?

[PvtUrist]

TRs are {Skellen, Munch, Magik}

I'm uncertain on Loopdan's allignment. I prefer to write more but I'm having a hard time reading this game.

[Munchmellow]

If Loopdan didn't have the title of IC, would that change how you read him?

Probably. But it is a moot point, because he has IC title. I mean, we could go to the whole WIFOM saying that expirienced scum could do obv scummy stuff you would expect from newbie scum just to appear not scum...

I am actually more bothered by Loopdans reaction - kind of giving up at L-2.

I would call what Enter did tunneling, btw. And Enter has done it before on a town player, so it is NAI or it even makes him town.

Magic - joining Skellen in my strong townreads.

[Munchmellow]

@Elements - have your readings changed? Are you scumreading Loopdan more strongly after everything that went on on the last few pages?
Is Thespio still your strongest scumread?

[Elements]

I am getting flashbacks to my first game where scum absolutely swamped the chat with basically the same points over and over again which totally discouraged anyone from even bothering to read most of it. This obviously makes me question Enter's alignment more and upon reading Thespio's iso i can definitely see the possibility of an Enter/Thespio scum team going on. At the start They had a bit of a bickering to distance themselves from each other but after a while this Thespio did a turn around and starts even emulating Enter's posts with lots of loopdan quotes and explinations why they're iffy posts. Most of his read changes on loopdan and Enter have been "upon re-reading" without rlly quoting anything or links to posts, which seems like a bit of a cop out when you're changing views on currently the biggest conflict in the game. I also don't like how many town drops? is that the right words? thespio has done e.g. "lynch me over no lynch" and "I will put him at L-1 Later but dont want to risk a LOLHammer" and "Also I want to apologize for antagonizing you just reading through this I think you are town (if you read my recent games you will see me do it alot)"
so yes Thespio is still my strongest scum read

As for loopdan, if they hadn't shown such a defietist attitude i might have town lean on them, but currently i don't feel enter has swayed me into thinking they're scum especially given my thoughts on them and thespiio being a team

[Elements]

I’ll seriously go concider a PVT and Enter team

The word consider leaves options open for scum!Thespio to take either stance on scum!Enter either bussing for town cred or "re-evalutaing" and finding Enter's tunnelling to be a "genuine town mishap". But the inclusion of Pvt gives scum!Thespio the possibilty of going doen the route of bussing but lynching Pvt instead to get a mislynch without it looking any more suspicious if he went after Enter and they flipped town. It also distances them form Enter after getting a town lynch with them he can seem less to blame by pushing the sheer volume of posts against loopdan enter made out there

[MagikHorse]

A point where a point is due with Thespio, but as I said earlier it really irks me that people are still hunting via team searching. Until a red flip happens, that is going to be stupidly inaccurate and makes it look like you're just lining up a possible lynch for tomorrow. It's not a good way to scumhunt this early on.

Also, Elements, are you just unswayed by the arguing, thinking it's TvT or something, or are you just out there to fry the bigger fish?

[Thespio]

I also don't like how many town drops? is that the right words? thespio has done e.g. "lynch me over no lynch" and "I will put him at L-1 Later but dont want to risk a LOLHammer" and "Also I want to apologize for antagonizing you just reading through this I think you are town (if you read my recent games you will see me do it alot)"

Understand, I am, and would still like a PvT lynch. Period. However it does not help town in any way if i tunnel Loopdan. I think the problem you are having is you see genuine action as some sort of game, I would prefer D1 in a newbie game no one make it to [L-1] unless im comfortable with the lynch. I was also genuinely sorry since I have a history of violent clashes, look at my Meta.

Explain why Pvt isnt even on your radar? where is Loopdan?

[Thespio]

I feel like weve had enough chatter to make this vote VOTE: Loopdan