Newbie 1912 [GAME COMPLETE]

[Elements]

Explain why Pvt isnt even on your radar? where is Loopdan?

I think Loopdan is town hence the you and enter scum team
For pvt, he is mush less active then he was when he was scum in my last game so i have a mild town lean.
But on the off chance loopdan flips scum i will have to re-think everything at which point pvt will quite possibly be a scum read

[Thespio]

My thoughts are you two are scum team pushing on Loopdan, so if he flips town i will continue with that train of thought. But if loopdan flips scum that's me theory out the window and i highly doubt Enter would bus his scum partner day one so vigorously hence him being my biggest town read

I think this is flipped then right? If he flips scum you will TR Enter because you dont believe in bussing? if hes town you would think we are team so its both of us with a lean on me?

yea, is that not what i said before?

yea I missread the original question, sorry, Im at work so I have to skim this and reply in between work.

If I am scumreading Pvt and literally pushing him to the point of lynch, and thats what I want as well can we agree if Loopdan is town Pvt looks super scummy?

[Elements]

I'm of the opinion that if loopdan flips scum pvt looks scummy, if loopdan flips town i still think it's you

[Thespio]

I'm of the opinion that if loopdan flips scum pvt looks scummy, if loopdan flips town i still think it's you

Ok cool, I understand, so basicly you are looking at loopdan/pvt scum team, or a me/Enter scumteam?

[Nauci]

Vote Count 1.8

Loopdan (4) -

Enter 130

,

muh316 158

,

Skellen 240

,

Thespio 324

Thespio (3) -

PvtUrist 10

,

Munchmellow 140

,

Elements 149

Elements (1) -

Thespio

8

,

MagikHorse 286

Enter (1) -

Loopdan 281

With 9 players alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch or not lynch.

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2019-01-21 05:00:00).

Mod Notes

A group of kittens is called a "kindle", and "clowder" is a term that refers to a group of adult cats.

[Elements]

I'm of the opinion that if loopdan flips scum pvt looks scummy, if loopdan flips town i still think it's you

Ok cool, I understand, so basicly you are looking at loopdan/pvt scum team, or a me/Enter scumteam?

effectivly yes

[Elements]

Enter's ISO

Upon looking though i found a maximum of 7 posts that didn't in some way relate to Loopdan; either pointing a finger saying he's scum, comparing how other people have played so far with him, quoting him or telling him to read properly and answer questions. Given the shear volume of post too, i don't see how this could be considered anything but tunnelling.
The other posts are somewhat nonchalant. The only one of real interest I found said something like "scum don't tend to tunnel or push town day one so they don't take responsibility for the GREEN flip" Which, taken from the Enter is scum view, could be him covering his back if loopdan flips green.

If loopdan flips scum i and more than happy to bow down to the all knowing power of Enter

[Thespio]

effectivly yes

So the way I see it, If he flips town im susp of Enter and Pvt. I would prefer a pvt lynch but it would put Enter as a scum lean for me. If hes scum I am less susp of Pvt and Enter and more so the players that have stayed stagnant.

Now do me a favor, I didnt start on loopdan, how do you feel about my ISO in regards to Loopdan, Enter, and Pvt?

[Elements]

Now do me a favor, I didnt start on loopdan, how do you feel about my ISO in regards to Loopdan, Enter, and Pvt?

not entirely sure what you're asking could you rephrase a bit?

[Thespio]

Now do me a favor, I didnt start on loopdan, how do you feel about my ISO in regards to Loopdan, Enter, and Pvt?

not entirely sure what you're asking could you rephrase a bit?

Whats your specific feelings about my progression D1? sorry, I work for the DOE and since we technically are closed im helping students still get aid and theres like 600 people waiting so im all over the place.

[Loopdan]

Elements is probably town.

Why do you say this? Until their latest two posts I've seen nothing notable or memorable from them, and they're the one scumread I have besides you and potentially Muh for that sort of behavior.

Elements is able to simultaneously recognize two truths: 1) Enter's push on me looks bad, 2) I haven't done a good job defending against that case. It just looks like a townie mindset. It could be scum hedging and hoping to mislynch town!enter tomorrow, but feels more town to me.

I'm think you have similar thoughts, but you seem less sure on #1.

[MagikHorse]

Also, Elements, are you just unswayed by the arguing, thinking it's TvT or something, or are you just out there to fry the bigger fish?

which arguing are you refering to?

The arguing between Loop and Enter. Thought this was clear enough from context.

Elements is probably town.

Why do you say this? Until their latest two posts I've seen nothing notable or memorable from them, and they're the one scumread I have besides you and potentially Muh for that sort of behavior.

Elements is able to simultaneously recognize two truths: 1) Enter's push on me looks bad, 2) I haven't done a good job defending against that case. It just looks like a townie mindset. It could be scum hedging and hoping to mislynch town!enter tomorrow, but feels more town to me.

I'm think you have similar thoughts, but you seem less sure on #1.

"Less sure" is one way to put it, given that I don't believe #1 at all given how far out I'd have to go for that. I'm more concerned that you're a combination of too scummy to be scum and overly eager to sacrifice yourself, whish is a big reason why you're not lower on my list.

[Loopdan]

Quick question to everyone not named Enter: Do you have any idea what his current read is on you?

[Loopdan]

"Less sure" is one way to put it, given that I don't believe #1 at all given how far out I'd have to go for that. I'm more concerned that you're a combination of too scummy to be scum and overly eager to sacrifice yourself, whish is a big reason why you're not lower on my list.

Hm. Can you concisely summarize Enter's case on me?

[Thespio]

"Less sure" is one way to put it, given that I don't believe #1 at all given how far out I'd have to go for that. I'm more concerned that you're a combination of too scummy to be scum and overly eager to sacrifice yourself, whish is a big reason why you're not lower on my list.

Do you feel the tunnel could be a scum tunnel?

[Thespio]

UNVOTE: I want to see how Loopdan plays this out, i feel like however he flips Enter will be the opposite.

[Loopdan]

@Magik, you wanna see what too scummy to be scum looks like? The post below.

UNVOTE: I want to see how Loopdan plays this out, i feel like however he flips Enter will be the opposite.

[Munchmellow]

@Magik, you wanna see what too scummy to be scum looks like? The post below.

UNVOTE: I want to see how Loopdan plays this out, i feel like however he flips Enter will be the opposite.

Can you explain that a little bit more for us newbies?

[Thespio]

@Magik, you wanna see what too scummy to be scum looks like? The post below.

UNVOTE: I want to see how Loopdan plays this out, i feel like however he flips Enter will be the opposite.

I dont understand, do you think he is town tunneling you? You are still my pick for today I just dont want anything to stop this clash, i want to see it to its end so D2 regardless of what happens I know what you both think. I do believe one of you is scum, i understand he did basically tunnel you, he did it even when confronting me. You arent out of the fire yet. But your survivalism does seem town now that you are actually trying.

[Thespio]

@Magik, you wanna see what too scummy to be scum looks like? The post below.

UNVOTE: I want to see how Loopdan plays this out, i feel like however he flips Enter will be the opposite.

Can you explain that a little bit more for us newbies?

He is saying if it seems to obvious you should rethink your read essentially.

[Elements]

The arguing between Loop and Enter. Thought this was clear enough from context.

Just double checking. I think it's either Enter scum tunnelling to get a mislynch, TvT, or Enter is some form of deity

[Thespio]

The arguing between Loop and Enter. Thought this was clear enough from context.

Just double checking. I think it's either Enter scum tunnelling to get a mislynch, TvT, or Enter is some form of deity

Did you just list every possible option XD, its either SvT, TvT, or TvS

[Elements]

The arguing between Loop and Enter. Thought this was clear enough from context.

Just double checking. I think it's either Enter scum tunnelling to get a mislynch, TvT, or Enter is some form of deity

Did you just list every possible option XD, its either SvT, TvT, or TvS

that is a very good point, and rather ammusing.
The order is what i think the mos likely case it:
Scum tunnel ~ 85%
TvT ~ 10%
Enter = god ~ 5%

[Enter]

Alright, there reaches a point where the day begins to go on too long. I wasn't going to worry about this, since it seemed inconsequential, but I now believe that since people still seem a bit uncertain about Loopdan, let's clear a few things up:

1. There is a difference between a push and a tunnel. I've been a part of both.

A push is when you find someone you think is scum, you push them, they don't respond to your push/they respond poorly => they are then lynched -OR- They respond well, you find that you're now closer to townreading that person => you have a townread. This is what happened between myself and Loopdan, and between myself and Thespio. Loopdan failed to even acknowledge all my points, cherry-picked my argument, took me out of context, and responded to only what he wanted to respond to. When I followed up with questions, he ignored me and did not continue to play the game until heat was placed on MDb and MDb was replaced => all of a sudden he was rejuvenated. Thespio at first dismissed my arguments against him, but in time responded appropriately, discussion was had, and now I am closer to townreading him.

The lack of push is the reason town was so stagnate earlier. Scum likes it when people don't push your reads because at that point you reach page six and you only have one strong town read.

A tunnel is when you find someone you think is scum, you push them, they respond appropriately, the momentum dies, and all of a sudden three days later you're still pushing them, you're the only one on their wagon, and you refuse to consider anyone else even though your points have been responded to appropriately because you're so convinced they're scum.

Loopdan called my push a tunnel 10 hours after I replaced into the game. Please ask yourself if that makes sense to you at all. Loopdan didn't continue to call what I did a tunnel until later in the game.

If you want to see real tunnel play, look at my games on Tr1ckster, especially my newbie game w/ randomidget. I hard tunneled since day 1. I was town that game, BTW. IIRC I used to tunnel a lot. If you look at the so-called tunnel on NSG (which again, I tried to do, but didn't work out) I got caught as scum because I flip flopped on my reads constantly. I didn't actually tunnel NSG, I made fewer posts, my posts were uncertain, and I sat on the fence.

2.

I'm pretty good at reading players. I'm often better at town-hunting than scum-hunting, but that largely depends on the players involved.

This is dumb. If you're good at reading players, you're good at scumhunting. If you call every player town (which is what you were doing: "I don't have any scum reads at the moment") you will have a >50% success rate. This is such a bad excuse for your play.

3.
It's important to recognize the speed with which wagons are built. Something interesting to recognize is that very few people had said a whole lot about Thespio being scum (IIRC) before his wagon came in out of almost nowhere. This is by far not the fastest wagon I've seen built, and it did take a little building (including a hypothetical self-vote from him), but something you should note is that Loopdan has been called out as being weird since Page 2, and it took until now for there to be a wagon on him. The buildup was relatively slow, and you'll notice that a lot of players have had him in their "slightly-scummy" or "not sure anymore" reads that are not voting him or are very hesitant to vote him. Slow wagon buildups are very often scum, especially on day 1.

[Thespio]

slow wagon buildups are very often scum, especially on day 1.

So your saying you think the people who have been slow to vote him are town for you and we are all hesitant because were not sure if he is scum? Loopdan flips his vote alot, are you saying that makes him scum?