Spoiler: Recommended Reading
In post 373, Enter wrote:Alright, there reaches a point where the day begins to go on too long. I wasn't going to worry about this, since it seemed inconsequential, but I now believe that since people still seem a bit uncertain about Loopdan, let's clear a few things up:
1. There is a difference between a push and a tunnel. I've been a part of both.
A push is when you find someone you think is scum, you push them, they don't respond to your push/they respond poorly => they are then lynched -OR- They respond well, you find that you're now closer to townreading that person => you have a townread. This is what happened between myself and Loopdan, and between myself and Thespio. Loopdan failed to even acknowledge all my points, cherry-picked my argument, took me out of context, and responded to only what he wanted to respond to. When I followed up with questions, he ignored me and did not continue to play the game until heat was placed on MDb and MDb was replaced => all of a sudden he was rejuvenated. Thespio at first dismissed my arguments against him, but in time responded appropriately, discussion was had, and now I am closer to townreading him.
The lack of push is the reason town was so stagnate earlier. Scum likes it when people don't push your reads because at that point you reach page six and you only have one strong town read.
A tunnel is when you find someone you think is scum, you push them, they respond appropriately, the momentum dies, and all of a sudden three days later you're still pushing them, you're the only one on their wagon, and you refuse to consider anyone else even though your points have been responded to appropriately because you're so convinced they're scum.
Loopdan called my push a tunnel 10 hours after I replaced into the game. Please ask yourself if that makes sense to you at all. Loopdan didn't continue to call what I did a tunnel until later in the game.
If you want to see real tunnel play, look at my games on Tr1ckster, especially my newbie game w/ randomidget. I hard tunneled since day 1. I was town that game, BTW. IIRC I used to tunnel a lot. If you look at the so-called tunnel on NSG (which again, I tried to do, but didn't work out) I got caught as scum because I flip flopped on my reads constantly. I didn't actually tunnel NSG, I made fewer posts, my posts were uncertain, and I sat on the fence.
2.This is dumb. If you're good at reading players, you're good at scumhunting. If you call every player town (which is what you were doing: "I don't have any scum reads at the moment") you will have a >50% success rate. This is such a bad excuse for your play.In post 189, Loopdan wrote:I'm pretty good at reading players. I'm often better at town-hunting than scum-hunting, but that largely depends on the players involved.
3.
It's important to recognize the speed with which wagons are built. Something interesting to recognize is that very few people had said a whole lot about Thespio being scum (IIRC) before his wagon came in out of almost nowhere. This is by far not the fastest wagon I've seen built, and it did take a little building (including a hypothetical self-vote from him), but something you should note is that Loopdan has been called out as being weird since Page 2, and it took until now for there to be a wagon on him. The buildup was relatively slow, and you'll notice that a lot of players have had him in their "slightly-scummy" or "not sure anymore" reads that are not voting him or are very hesitant to vote him. Slow wagon buildups are very often scum, especially on day 1.
In post 226, Enter wrote:As far as Loopdan's partner, let's examine the possibilities:
1. PvtUrist: Loopdan doesn't take responsibility for his vote, like he should if he knew PvtUrist was flipping scum. => I think PvtUrist is pretty much conftown when Loopdan flips scum
2. Skellen: Skellen reads like town to me. 125 makes them look town, I think. I think it's pretty rare for scum to call other scum hard town read without other townies agreeing, also the debate at the beginning makes me think it's TvS => Skellen is town.
3. muh316: Kinda weird vote from Loopdan in RVS. Also second one to jump on Loopdan after I came in, and continued to press. Looks kinda town to me (although there really isn't much interaction between them, muh316 calls out Loopdan, Loopdan says "later" :/ ).
4. Munchmellow: Again, not a lot of interactions outside an RVS vote from Loopdan. She's placed suspicion on him before. Reading her as pretty town-y.
5. elements: Weird interaction between elements and Loopdan on Loopdan's side, again. :/ And again, we see another case of elements calling him out for being weird.
You might begin to be seeing a pattern here. Everyone here has called Loopdan out for weird things. I think most of the people in this group are less likely to be his partner than the other two, but it's pretty hard. Elements, for example, could easily be just following other people's example by calling out Loopdan out for his weirdness. If I had to pick a name out of this list on the spot, it would prolly be elements based on the fact that Loopdan didn't vote him when elements made a weird move w/ his votes, even though he did vote muh316. Although that might point more towards muh316, as it seems to me that Loopdan is more scared of pushing a wagon on town.
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6. Thespio: weird interactions w/ Loopdan. One of the only people to not call him out for weird stuff in the game thread.
7. MissDeadbeat/MagikHorse: Actually nothing this game. Loopdan was awful quick to get his vote off MissDeadbeat. This signals to me that she's the most likely here to be scum. In addition, he took full responsibility for his vote on her. My suspicion is that he saw Thespio vote her, thought to himself "Oh crap better bus her, it's maybe over for her" and then swapped to PvtUrist once he saw a way out.
My conclusion: Of every player here, I would really like to see more from MagikHorse (and if I don't, I will be a very big fan of their lynch on day 2).
I will seriously reconsider my take on PvtUristIn post 223, Thespio wrote:@Enter, I have a question for you, say we flip Loopdan and hes town, whats your next course of action?
Something that should be noted is that Loopdan is again asking for something he hasn't provided: a list of reads - something I've been asking from him since my 3rd? 4th? (something like that) post.
