Newbie 1912 [GAME COMPLETE]

[Enter]

To be fair I outlined Loops read trajectory on you and you dismissed it as him not having an opinion. Yes Muh did the exact same thing even disregarding the vote itself.

No. It is different, and it is different in this:

muh at one point in the game saw something that gave him a scum read on loopdan and followed up on that with his vote. It looks more town on him for this, because he did not do what so many others did, which is call loopdan scum, but not place their vote on him.

I do not condemn him for seeing an argument he likes and following through. If you do, we have more to talk about than whether or not I'm holding people to a double standard.

What loopdan did is different. From pretty much RVS until I showed up in the game, he exclusively voted someone who someone else had just voted merely two posts before and mirrored their argument on it, from voting muh to MDb, to PvtUrist. I have no problem with finding an argument you like and sticking with it. I do have a problem when it becomes apparent that you have a hard time thinking of a reason for any of your votes, which is what loopdan portrayed.

[RCEnigma]

Post 157 and post 158 both come a few hours apart with no posting in between and go from "I disagree with most of Enters arguments" straight into a vote because their thinking on Loop is in line.

It could be a genuine progression but I don't view it as more organic than Loops in any way.

[muh316]

I'll post more stuff tonight but since I don't want to be prodded so here's a short bit of what's to come.

While I accused Loop of pocketing Magik D1, I think the case may be that Magik was pocketing Loop. Magik then conveniently voted for Loop while still defending him. More on that tonight!

[MagikHorse]

I'll post more stuff tonight but since I don't want to be prodded so here's a short bit of what's to come.

While I accused Loop of pocketing Magik D1, I think the case may be that Magik was pocketing Loop. Magik then conveniently voted for Loop while still defending him. More on that tonight!

What exactly does me pocketing someone under excruciating levels of pressure get scum!me again when they're probably just gonna die? Wouldn't it have been a much better idea to try and pocket Enter instead and stay off of his bad side, or another incredibly townie player?

Also, you act as though I had somewhere else to possibly be with my vote. I already said earlier that I would vote Loop if there was no legitimate alternative and enough information could be gained, and at that point the first was clear and the latter had been something I had been convinced of even as I dragged things out to get as much info as possible.

[Enter]

Rough draft:

Town

Skellen
Munch
Thespio/Muh
===
Magik
RCE

Scum

This is weird for me cuz I think there's prolly only one scum between Magik/RCE, but that's where I sit atm.

[MagikHorse]

Rough draft:

Town

Skellen
Munch
Thespio/Muh
===
Magik
RCE

Scum

This is weird for me cuz I think there's prolly only one scum between Magik/RCE, but that's where I sit atm.

You said yesterday that I was a townlean if Loop flipped town. What changed that opinion?

[Skellen]

So we have Loop at L-1 very much in danger of just being turbolynched at this point. Loop doesn't vote his counterwagon so that scum can't choose either or and they're pigeon holed.

If Thespio is a scum counterwagon at this point his partner is absolutely Magik but I don't think scum fights both wagons at this point keeping in mind the gamestate.

Loops wagon stagnates suggesting two on or one on one off. Magik could hammer here so in the case of one off I think this points to Munch.

In the case of two on it would be more of a tossup and mostly assumptions.

This is the wagon that pedsisted for most of the day until Loop/Elements. But even those vcs are pretty similar and tell me the same thing.

I am afraid I am dumb.
Is it a common thing that scum usually tends to quickhammer someone in a L-1 situation? Therefore it exculpates Magik that he didn't hammer Loop, I can follow that line of thinking. But Munch is scum because she was the only one left over outside the wagon and didn't hammer? I mean I understand you assume one scum was outside the Loop wagon (I actually agree with that) and thus for you she is the only one left, but the danger of her hammering Loop was never there to begin with as she was clearly rather leaning on town regarding Loop so she would have maneuvered herself into a deadend. Wouldn't scum rather try to leave that window open as long as possible then? Although the waiting game paid off with Elements snapping.

But to go by that logic the other side of the coin could be as well that Loop wasn't hammered back then because the second scum slot just wasn't there to do the deed.

[Thespio]

it a common thing that scum usually tends to quickhammer someone in a L-1 situation? Therefore it exculpates Magik that he didn't hammer Loop, I can follow that line of thinking. But Munch is scum because she was the only one left over outside the wagon and didn't hammer?

Just pausing to answer this, Yes and no. Scum obviously want a misslynch or no lynch though so strategy for scum usually is a quick hammer to end a day and take a ML or a push towards a lynch

[MagikHorse]

Honestly I find it strange to say that scum usually hammers at L-1. Certain specific players might (example: Not_Mafia), yeah sure, but I find it hard to believe that scum would want to put themselves under the gun unless they thought they could get away with it. In the end it's all about how much they're showing about their true colors, unless it's for the win somehow.

Overall the thing that I'm getting out of this is that his townread on Loop might be manufactured so that he could slip under the radar and have an excuse to stay off the wagon in case people started looking at the wagon. I'm gonna have to look into his reasoning for that townread and see what works there, but just "not hammering when he could have" doesn't cut it for me if that's your argument here.

[Skellen]

@Enter:
What makes you push muh to the town side? I can see it when you sympathize with him because he was kind of on the same wavelength with you in persuading Loop but to me he just looks like an upgraded PvtUrist. Since your entry he was focused only on Loop, of course picking here and there some quotes from Loop to underline his suspicion, but otherwise he is really blank. He always mentioned here and there some other smaller conflicts but never he actually bothers to delve deeper into these. For example obviously it was bothering him that Thespio was at L-2 and he was wondering why, although all three votes on Thespio had reasons stated by his voters yet seemingly he wasn't interested enough to challenge only one of these three. The same with Pvt and Elements. He brings those up but ultimately it never lead anywhere. Just look like some alibi statements to me.

He is the only person so far where I don't know what he is thinking. When I reread his ISO during the night and finished I was just like "Ok... and what now?". Even you with your hard tunnel mode had kind of a plan B. His announced attack against Magik kind of fits into this. I am all open for that, that's not the point, but it comes completely out of nowhere.

[MagikHorse]

Looking back, I'm not really seeing much reasoning behind Munch calling Loop town. I see her calling it gut once, and I see something about her not liking how that wagon formed (which is a valid concern tbh), and that's about it. I even see her agreeing on occasion with a few scummier points, but still overall leaning town for some reason.

Yeah, I have no clue what's going on with this read at all.

[Thespio]

Honestly I find it strange to say that scum usually hammers at L-1. Certain specific players might (example: Not_Mafia), yeah sure, but I find it hard to believe that scum would want to put themselves under the gun unless they thought they could get away with it. In the end it's all about how much they're showing about their true colors, unless it's for the win somehow.

Overall the thing that I'm getting out of this is that his townread on Loop might be manufactured so that he could slip under the radar and have an excuse to stay off the wagon in case people started looking at the wagon. I'm gonna have to look into his reasoning for that townread and see what works there, but just "not hammering when he could have" doesn't cut it for me if that's your argument here.

I agree to some degree, scum may also want to bait people onto a position so they dont have to hammer, but they usually are involved in postponing a game without extending it and/or ending days early

PEDIT:
I think munch is susp, i think enter is leaning against people who didnt wagon with him, i want his read on munch, an indepth read like what he is doing with RCA

[Thespio]

Thespio had reasons stated by his voters yet seemingly he wasn't interested enough to challenge only one of these three. The same with Pvt and Elements. He brings those up but ultimately it never lead anywhere. Just look like some alibi statements to me.

I did respond to the people who voted for me, their major concern was that i was ok dying.

[Skellen]

Looking back, I'm not really seeing much reasoning behind Munch calling Loop town. I see her calling it gut once, and I see something about her not liking how that wagon formed (which is a valid concern tbh), and that's about it. I even see her agreeing on occasion with a few scummier points, but still overall leaning town for some reason.

Yeah, I have no clue what's going on with this read at all.

That's indeed the one thing where I wished she would have gotten more concrete. I can understand why someone is forming an opinion based on guts but it looks strange when you lean just by that on someone town enough to prefer voting anyone else over him. Going by RCE's approach it could be interpreted like it was the plan that one definitely stays away from the Loop wagon. I might finally get what RCE might have meant.

@Thespio:
Either I phrased it awkwardly or you got it wrong. I did't meant you, I meant muh.

[Thespio]

Either I phrased it awkwardly or you got it wrong. I did't meant you, I meant muh.

Ah I see. Yeah, he kind of just exists in this game, he isnt a negative or positive influence, hes just here, avoiding the game. which to me is SUPER scummy, because no information is anti-town

[MagikHorse]

Either I phrased it awkwardly or you got it wrong. I did't meant you, I meant muh.

Ah I see. Yeah, he kind of just exists in this game, he isnt a negative or positive influence, hes just here, avoiding the game. which to me is SUPER scummy, because no information is anti-town

He's been giving me vibes that he's been trying to hide or blend in for most of the game tbh. Having no real contributions on top of following the biggest, loudest mouth in the game doesn't help in that regard. And then he just goes after me out of nowhere, and it's wild speculation that's a total 180 of what he was saying yesterday, and without voting or pressuring me with it at all. For a first attempt at making a splash, it's overall underwhelming.

I don't see town motivations in lying so low and doing so little, and I almost have to wonder if he's trying to pocket Enter by following him so closely too. If so, it's pretty clearly working.

[Enter]

Rough draft:

Town

Skellen
Munch
Thespio/Muh
===
Magik
RCE

Scum

This is weird for me cuz I think there's prolly only one scum between Magik/RCE, but that's where I sit atm.

You said yesterday that I was a townlean if Loop flipped town. What changed that opinion?

When did I say that?


===

the only real reason i remember munch saying she didn't wanna kill dan is cuz he's the IC.

===

muh is mostly a wavelength read. I'll case the people we disagree on in a bit (maybe tomorrow? I'm like super busy irl, but maybe I can do it on saturday or something)

[MagikHorse]

When did I say that?

Forgotten post 630, you have. Surprised in this I am not.

[RCEnigma]

I'll go over the final wagons a bit later, skellen do your questions still stand?

@Magik it's more or less wifom but I feel the gamestate allowed for the hammer to be allowable if that makes sense. It probably would have been a viable play and as scum I probably would have pushed for it if enter is in fact town.

[Enter]

When did I say that?

Forgotten post 630, you have. Surprised in this I am not.

Oh. Dude, that was like halfway through the day.

It's not huge. The reason I was kind of townreading you at that point was the consideration that you were being pocketed and he was scum. He wasn't scum, so it now looks like maybe other way around/you were looking for WK points.

Honestly, though, I'm not hugely convinced of my scumread on you.

[MagikHorse]

What is a WK point? Never heard that term before.

Also, I'll ask you the same question I asked to Muh: what do I gain by pocketing Loopdan, a player already under heavy pressure and a likely lynch candidate even when I first hopped in?

[RCEnigma]

If he survives through the day he never lynches you and if he's lynched but flips town you can use that advocation as a defense. That's just surface level though.

[RCEnigma]

I'm not sure I buy it to be honest mostly because Magik didn't fully side with Loop until Enter started pushing on him too.

[Enter]

What is a WK point? Never heard that term before.

Also, I'll ask you the same question I asked to Muh: what do I gain by pocketing Loopdan, a player already under heavy pressure and a likely lynch candidate even when I first hopped in?

White knighting. Calling someone town when you know they're town for town points.

I'm not sure I buy it to be honest mostly because Magik didn't fully side with Loop until Enter started pushing on him too.

That's why it's weird... cuz he was calling him scummy but wouldn't do anything until someone pressured him to. :/ I really don't know, though. I'm not entirely convinced of the Magik scum lean.

[RCEnigma]

I can agree with that. Another thing, I don't really think Magik tried to get Loop on his side to push lynches. Not that he was leading any pushes so maybe it would just be under-utilization of a pocket? Though I think Magik is pretty capable and could have used it to manipulate Loop if a pocket was his goal.

I'll keep this in mind when rereading his iso.