Newbie 1913 - game over!!

[the worst]

vote count 1.10

hearthstone1235 (0) :
YellowSnow (1) : volxen
L84Dnr (0) :
DoubtingThomas (1) : SaintAngelDFE
Roo (1) : YellowSnow
SaintAngelDFE (3) : xwing, Roo, brassherald
volxen (2) : L84Dnr, hearthstone1235
xwing (0) :
brassherald (1) : DoubtingThomas

not voting:

with 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.

day one will end automatically in (expired on 2019-01-30 14:00:00) or sooner if a lynch is achieved by majority.


mod notes:
- xwing regular v/la over weekends
- quack

[volxen]

Tl;dr If I am not DT but I know DT's meta and history, I would put him at very slight scum lean to generate reaction to help myself understand his alignment a little more while keeping in mind he is actually null. I would be slightly annoyed that he is not playing to his usual self because no matter what that is that is negative for town and hope that he will start playing. As of now, he isn't one of my main scum suspects tbh

Are you talking about yourself in the third person and reading yourself.

This is why I also hate walls, if you can say something in fewer words, say it that way, this post in general is too hard to follow and I have no clue what you are trying to say.

I think this post is extremely bad in a scummy way

First problem

He attacks the post which was merely an ANSWER to another player's question

Second problem

I see really no point of making this post at all.
He's asking a very simple question that can be kinda inferred to (that I made this post in a third person way) but also at the same time, the question itself doesn't contribute to ANY scum hunting at all. The answer to whether or not I wrote the post in a third person does not help brass know my alignment at all.

Third problem

Then he goes on to attack my post in a way that's NAI and kinda pointless to point out. That "he hates walls" again which is his opinion, and he is free to express it. However, by expressing this opinion along with a pointless question he asked above, he is literally contributing nothing to the thread but still commenting on a post which was not directed towards him at all.

I think him giving out a negative opinion about the post which is not about the content of the post and how that may be townish/scummish of me is usually how scums tend to try to

shade

other players.

Overall, this post has 3 things I hate so much

- Belittling a post in a very indirect yet meaningless way
- Using that negative factor of the post to attack my slot/give a negative impression to others about me
- While in actuality if you look into this post, he contributed absolutely nothing. He did not enhance a conversation between me and him nor gave any useful analysis wrt my post

Furthermore, I think his complaint about how "he hates long post" and "if you have a succinct way of say something, say it in a simpler way" is just kinda really bad approach to the game

I can understand disliking long posts and I am sorry if you think that it makes the point I am trying to get across to be lost in the middle of it, but I make long posts because I tend to get on a tangent and write about all the thoughts I have in the process. To partly show a transparent thought process I have. This way, I can show others how/why I felt/thought abotu something in a certain way and discuss about it with them. Which will help me understand the other person's alignment better

You can dislike long posts and hate my post for not getting straight to the point, but I feel pretty strongly about this.

At the same time, I now think it's

REALLY SCUMMY

for you to just attack my post based on the fact that it's a long post and I didn't get my point across with it. rather than talking/expressing about how that makes me townie/scummy nor actually trying to ask me questions about the confusion you have with the post.

Because if you are town, you should be curious about the confusion you have. You express that you did not understand my post completely, but really don't ask a legit question that will help your clarification. Rather, you focus on how that makes my posting bad. Again, I think that comes from a scummy agenda that you want to give others the impression that I am posting badly.

I believe you are scum here, sir.

VOTE: Brass

@DT, do you think it's possible that you are just really, really overreacting to Brass's post here? It seems far-fetched to me that you would have such a strong scumread of Brass over this one post that you quoted from him. And I also don't interpret Brass's post as saying "you should NEVER make a wallpost" -- I think he is just trying to say that if you can explain something succinctly, that you should do so rather than making the post longer than it needs to be. I don't think he's trying to say that you should literally never, ever make a wallpost.

[xwing]

@xwing: which post?

excerpt from DT's post 186:
I am a pretty good wolf. Compared to my town game, I am a really good wolf. I have a pretty good win record as wolf (6-2? ish) and I have almost never been mislynched as a wolf (although I have been n1 vigged by towns two times by people who know my meta well)

[volxen]

@DoubtingThomas, can you get back to me on this?

I think akagami has good town cred for not voting despitr having like 4 ppl vote before them and itd be easy and tempting to just rvs someone as a wolf

Akagami wasn’t even supposed to post, since he was replaced by Roo (who did place an RVS vote). Nonetheless, why do you think Akagami’s slot deserves town credit for posting but not placing an RVS vote? Voting during the early game/RVS helps to move the game forward by generating discussion and allowing us to see how people respond to votes/pressure, and we ultimately have to lynch scum to win, so voting is a pro-town action. Just popping in to say “hi” doesn’t help to move the game forward. And why make the comment that “itd be easy and tempting to just rvs someone as a wolf”? Most people (regardless of alignment) vote for someone during RVS.

I already explained it.

He didn't vote when 4 people in front of him did.

As a wolf, your mindset naturally tends to be "I want to assimilate with the crowd (towns people who are not on your team)"

You see 4 people vote in front of you, you may

think

it's more natural to vote with them

the dude didn't

i think that comes from a townie mindset that wants to focus on themselves rather than be fake and "look" like they are townie

I just looked at Akagami’s profile, and while he has been on this site for a few months, this is actually the first game he has ever played in (though technically he wasn’t supposed to post because Roo had already replaced him). So it’s possible that he simply isn’t familiar with RVS and that’s why he made a “hi” post without voting for anyone. So I find his lack of voting during RVS to be NAI (not alignment-indicative).

I agree with you in the general sense that scum wants to blend in and try to look towny, but I don’t think that realistically translates to a lack of an RVS vote (after other people have already voted) being town-indicative just because it goes against the norm. Voting early on helps to generate discussion, which helps to move the game along faster and helps town to make a more informed lynch on day one. Not voting and just saying “hi” doesn’t advance the game, so it’s not really a pro-town action.

In any case, is it specifically the fact that he made that “hi” post without voting after five people had already voted that you find be towny? If he was the first person to post in the game, and if he had posted that same “hi” post without voting, would you still have found his lack of an RVS vote to be towny?

[xwing]

i think DT may be town by virtue of townslip..

I'm not seeing it. Can you explain?

my bad, there's no slip..
excerpt from my post 206:

i misread his wall posts, i thought he put that "as scum, you have to find other scum" (paraphrased) so it seemed like a townslip to me since scum have daychat and know everyone's alignments..

[xwing]

I don't have definitive reads on everyone yet. At the moment I am quite suspicious of Saint based on what I wrote in post 218. Be rest assured I will share my reads as I start to develop more definitive reads on other slots.

I am town this game, but can you tell me why you are townreading me?

okay, will look forward to it..
mostly gut..i dont find most players here being obviously townie here so far..

[xwing]

@DT: i think your reaction is over the top as well..but i dont think you're that scummy yet..and when 3+ different people are calling you on it, i think it's a pretty legit observation..

[YellowSnow]

@xwing: which post?

excerpt from DT's post 186:
I am a pretty good wolf. Compared to my town game, I am a really good wolf. I have a pretty good win record as wolf (6-2? ish) and I have almost never been mislynched as a wolf (although I have been n1 vigged by towns two times by people who know my meta well)

How is this claiming scum?

[xwing]

I find it unlikely that players would admit to liking to play scum. Being a dangerous scum player would increase the likelyhood of being lynched on that basis alone.

@xwing: which post?

excerpt from DT's post 186:
I am a pretty good wolf. Compared to my town game, I am a really good wolf. I have a pretty good win record as wolf (6-2? ish) and I have almost never been mislynched as a wolf (although I have been n1 vigged by towns two times by people who know my meta well)

How is this claiming scum?

what are you talking about? @_@
where did we ever discuss about claiming scum?

[xwing]

btw who is Tall1s? he's not in the vote count, so is this somebody's alt?

[YellowSnow]

@yellow: DT has now openly claimed he's good as scum..soooo what do you think about that?
@brass: well dt did make a good point..why am i town?[/quote]

[YellowSnow]

Sorry I misread your post. There's nothing wrong with saying you are good as scum, it's just not often done.

[the worst]

btw who is Tall1s? he's not in the vote count, so is this somebody's alt?

Tall1s is not a player in this game.

[L84Dnr]

What troubles me about all of this is that if you are scum, everything you are doing is fake, including your reads, so it makes sense that could mess up your reads/vote like this (since it would all be fake anyways if you are scum). If you are town then you really, really botched up that entire post (141) along with your vote. So why is this more likely to be an honest mistake from town!Saint rather than a scumslip from scum!Saint?

I think this really sums up what happened well. And before a response is given, it makes me think that it is more likely than not that this was a scumslip.

Why do you figure it's more likely a scumslip than a simple mistake?

[brassherald]

@brass: well dt did make a good point..why am i town?

You've been open and sharing your thoughts. I don't see the scum motivation in any of your posts. You are not pushing anything in particular right now, but still engaging. Just, in general, all town motivated actions.

Good sharing, good posts, good thoughts, good engagement.

[brassherald]

Tl;dr If I am not DT but I know DT's meta and history, I would put him at very slight scum lean to generate reaction to help myself understand his alignment a little more while keeping in mind he is actually null. I would be slightly annoyed that he is not playing to his usual self because no matter what that is that is negative for town and hope that he will start playing. As of now, he isn't one of my main scum suspects tbh

Are you talking about yourself in the third person and reading yourself.

This is why I also hate walls, if you can say something in fewer words, say it that way, this post in general is too hard to follow and I have no clue what you are trying to say.

I think this post is extremely bad in a scummy way

First problem

He attacks the post which was merely an ANSWER to another player's question

Second problem

I see really no point of making this post at all.
He's asking a very simple question that can be kinda inferred to (that I made this post in a third person way) but also at the same time, the question itself doesn't contribute to ANY scum hunting at all. The answer to whether or not I wrote the post in a third person does not help brass know my alignment at all.

Third problem

Then he goes on to attack my post in a way that's NAI and kinda pointless to point out. That "he hates walls" again which is his opinion, and he is free to express it. However, by expressing this opinion along with a pointless question he asked above, he is literally contributing nothing to the thread but still commenting on a post which was not directed towards him at all.

I think him giving out a negative opinion about the post which is not about the content of the post and how that may be townish/scummish of me is usually how scums tend to try to

shade

other players.

Overall, this post has 3 things I hate so much

- Belittling a post in a very indirect yet meaningless way
- Using that negative factor of the post to attack my slot/give a negative impression to others about me
- While in actuality if you look into this post, he contributed absolutely nothing. He did not enhance a conversation between me and him nor gave any useful analysis wrt my post

Furthermore, I think his complaint about how "he hates long post" and "if you have a succinct way of say something, say it in a simpler way" is just kinda really bad approach to the game

I can understand disliking long posts and I am sorry if you think that it makes the point I am trying to get across to be lost in the middle of it, but I make long posts because I tend to get on a tangent and write about all the thoughts I have in the process. To partly show a transparent thought process I have. This way, I can show others how/why I felt/thought abotu something in a certain way and discuss about it with them. Which will help me understand the other person's alignment better

You can dislike long posts and hate my post for not getting straight to the point, but I feel pretty strongly about this.

At the same time, I now think it's

REALLY SCUMMY

for you to just attack my post based on the fact that it's a long post and I didn't get my point across with it. rather than talking/expressing about how that makes me townie/scummy nor actually trying to ask me questions about the confusion you have with the post.

Because if you are town, you should be curious about the confusion you have. You express that you did not understand my post completely, but really don't ask a legit question that will help your clarification. Rather, you focus on how that makes my posting bad. Again, I think that comes from a scummy agenda that you want to give others the impression that I am posting badly.

I believe you are scum here, sir.

VOTE: Brass

Oh my god, can you get an editor or something? Because these posts are so long and say basically nothing.

I asked you directly what you were doing in your previous wall post, it was the first sentence of my post. And you don't think it's a "legit question".

Serious advice, don't fall in love with your own voice so much that you can't learn to stop talking and make the point you are trying to make.

[YellowSnow]

Brass said something similar about not liking to take a lot of time reading/casing in the last game i played with him so I am actually leaning town for him.

[brassherald]

I admittedly have a short attention span.

General rule of thumb, though, is if your post does not fit on one traditional sized computer screen, it's too long, even for people who have normal attention spans.

[YellowSnow]

[Quote="brassherald"]My time is valuable, I'm not getting any of the time I spend building a case and then getting lolhammered by scum back before I die. I don't understand why more people don't value their own time the way I do.[/vote]

Since I saw this in two different games I'm going to assume that it is genuine and not faked.

[brassherald]

259

You know I'm never going to read that, right?

the thought "i am so sorry brass" literally crossed my mind while i was writing it.

i just felt i hadn't really shared my thought process enough to be questioning people who are pushing other scumreads than mine :{

FWIW, same game, player who's familiar with me (who happens to be the mod) acknowledges he knew I wasn't going to read his wall.

[Roo]

What troubles me about all of this is that if you are scum, everything you are doing is fake, including your reads, so it makes sense that could mess up your reads/vote like this (since it would all be fake anyways if you are scum). If you are town then you really, really botched up that entire post (141) along with your vote. So why is this more likely to be an honest mistake from town!Saint rather than a scumslip from scum!Saint?

I think this really sums up what happened well. And before a response is given, it makes me think that it is more likely than not that this was a scumslip.

Why do you figure it's more likely a scumslip than a simple mistake?

Because when addressing the mistake, there is a lot of vagueness. “I need to reread what I type” doesn’t really addres the heart of the issue. Saint isn’t saying that he got mixed up and meant to type another player instead of Volxen, it seems like he’s trying to say that sentence shouldn’t have been included at all. Which leads me to believe he is just making up reads as he goes and is attributing them to random names.

This being a mistake feels too convenient without more specifics.

[xwing]

my scum pool consists of the below, in order of most scummy:
{saint, yellow, hearth/DT}

i dont think roo is scum..i like his post 245..

im gonna be off soon, will return tuesday..im usually V/LA on weekends, plus it's a holiday on monday..

@mod: im gonna be V/LA on monday on top of my regular weekend off, quack quack!!

[SaintAngelDFE]

My bad for the late response to this one - long day at work. I had been typing this in between a couple of meetings and must have honestly gotten mixed up while reading it back through, no real excuse as to why I added Volxen or voted him.

I need to start re-reading what I type, especially if I'm going to try and post while at work apparently. My only "scum read" is on DT honestly, but I'm not completely sure about Yellow or Brass still.

sorry saint, im not sold on your explanation..
if it was a mistype or mix up, then you should had have just one scum read and not two?
also, DT and volxen are waaaay too distinct from each other to have them mixed up..
lastly, your reads are almost all null or back tracking..
like what's your case on DT? he's "pushing forward for info but then not really pushing"? i dont get what you're saying..

I have no particular excuse outside of repeating the fact that I had meetings in between typing my post, my mind was in two different places. It was likely that I had meant to include Yellow at the time instead of Volxen and merely gotten mixed up, but I'm not completely sure at this point.

My read on DT was just that he is essentially beating around the bush, he wants information but at the time he hadn't particularly pushed on anyone like others have. Reading posts since then I want to say that his wall of text was either him getting too "into character" or an attempt at misdirection of some sort, I'm not sure how to read that one yet.

Volxen, as for your referencing me calling it "unfortunate" that Roo's answer seemed genuine and unrushed, I only called in unfortunate because my attempt at getting a read ended in nothing more than "Possible town." I understand that this can be seen as a good thing, but our goal here is to figure out who is scum, so in my opinion while a town read is helpful it was not what I was hoping for in the long run, as it would have been more fortunate to get a possible scum read, at least short-term.

[volxen]

My bad for the late response to this one - long day at work. I had been typing this in between a couple of meetings and must have honestly gotten mixed up while reading it back through, no real excuse as to why I added Volxen or voted him.

I need to start re-reading what I type, especially if I'm going to try and post while at work apparently. My only "scum read" is on DT honestly, but I'm not completely sure about Yellow or Brass still.

sorry saint, im not sold on your explanation..
if it was a mistype or mix up, then you should had have just one scum read and not two?
also, DT and volxen are waaaay too distinct from each other to have them mixed up..
lastly, your reads are almost all null or back tracking..
like what's your case on DT? he's "pushing forward for info but then not really pushing"? i dont get what you're saying..

I have no particular excuse outside of repeating the fact that I had meetings in between typing my post, my mind was in two different places. It was likely that I had meant to include Yellow at the time instead of Volxen and merely gotten mixed up, but I'm not completely sure at this point.

My read on DT was just that he is essentially beating around the bush, he wants information but at the time he hadn't particularly pushed on anyone like others have. Reading posts since then I want to say that his wall of text was either him getting too "into character" or an attempt at misdirection of some sort, I'm not sure how to read that one yet.

Volxen, as for your referencing me calling it "unfortunate" that Roo's answer seemed genuine and unrushed, I only called in unfortunate because my attempt at getting a read ended in nothing more than "Possible town." I understand that this can be seen as a good thing, but our goal here is to figure out who is scum, so in my opinion while a town read is helpful it was not what I was hoping for in the long run, as it would have been more fortunate to get a possible scum read, at least short-term.

When you say that you meant to include Yellow instead of me, are you saying that you meant to say, "Yellow is more towny than Brass" rather than "Volxen is more towny than Brass"? And you meant to list

ONLY

DT as a suspect and vote for him? And my name wasn't supposed to be mentioned at all in your post?

And regarding who you suspect, I know you are saying you primarily suspect DT the most at the moment. But I would like to know what you think about the wagons against you -- you have gotten up to L-2 (3 votes) two different times:

vote count 1.08

hearthstone1235 (0) :
YellowSnow (1) : volxen
L84Dnr (0) :
DoubtingThomas (0) :
Roo (1) : YellowSnow

SaintAngelDFE (3) : xwing, Roo, L84Dnr

volxen (1) : SaintAngelDFE
xwing (0) :
brassherald (1) : DoubtingThomas

not voting: brassherald, hearthstone1235

with 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.

day one will end automatically in (expired on 2019-01-30 14:00:00) or sooner if a lynch is achieved by majority.


mod notes:
- prodding DoubtingThomas
- xwing regular v/la over weekends
- quack

vote count 1.10

hearthstone1235 (0) :
YellowSnow (1) : volxen
L84Dnr (0) :
DoubtingThomas (1) : SaintAngelDFE
Roo (1) : YellowSnow

SaintAngelDFE (3) : xwing, Roo, brassherald

volxen (2) : L84Dnr, hearthstone1235
xwing (0) :
brassherald (1) : DoubtingThomas

not voting:

with 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.

day one will end automatically in (expired on 2019-01-30 14:00:00) or sooner if a lynch is achieved by majority.


mod notes:
- xwing regular v/la over weekends
- quack

So your first L-2 wagon was {xwing, Roo, L84Dnr} and your second L-2 wagon is {xwing, Roo, brassherald}. And for all intents and purposes you were effectively at L-1 for a period of time, because Brass wanted to vote for you while L84Dnr was still voting for you, and the only reason he didn't vote for you at that time is because he didn't want to put you up to L-1:

I'm going to use my Finger of Suspicion on Saint at this point, if it wasn't obvious, I do not want to put to L-1 without a response this early, but I'm not sure much can be said that fixes that comment I asked about earlier.

So what are your thoughts on the players that have been on your wagon(s) -- meaning {xwing, Roo, L84Dnr, brassherald}? Do you believe there is scum among them, and if so, who do you think is the most likely scum to have been on your wagon(s)? Or do you believe that all of them are town?

[the worst]

quack