Open 74 - C/9ths (Game Over!) before 601

[dcorbe]

Sorry for the delay in posting guys. I confirmed my role PM and then completely forgot about the game.

I owe you a read, MTF...

[dcorbe]

Vote Mokina

wanna cyber?

[dcorbe]

Also, Mokina-my question stands.

ZombieSlayer54 and Snix both have the same general viewpoint, and it differs from mine. While we all agree that your perception of no-lynch and random voting is incorrect and antitown, I am under the impression that ZombieSlayer54 and Snix find it plain scummy. I don't, since you're obviously trying to analyze the situation calmly and you resemble several intelligent, new-town people I have played alongside in the past.

I would urge both of the abovementioned people to consider the possibility that he is simply new to the game. This is his first game on Mafiascum, and it's quite conceivable that he doesn't know about the nolynch/randomvote conventions.

It's easy enough to confirm whether this is his first game or not. Look at his posting history.

[dcorbe]

I would advise dcorbe to start providing some opinions on people.

The signal:noise ratio in here is still a little bit high. It seems like nobody is really giving any compelling reasons to hold their votes the way they are and the ones on the defensive are doing a pretty poor job of defending themselves.

All I have to say right now is this:

It seems like some of the people pushing the eldritch wagon right now are the ones who lurk the most right now.

It really sounds like a scum-driven wagon to me.

So.. based on that..

FoS: Eldritch Lord

because I'd like to hear more of what you have to say first

FoS: Daria and ZombieSlayer

Unvote

[dcorbe]

unvote

I'm mildly worried about TSN and Lowell jumping to his side though, it looks mildly like, instead of actually reading the argument, they went "oh look words, I bet he's right."

Either way I'll be watching them.

It really looks like you're trying to deflect attention off onto your aggressors with this post.

Unvote

(just because I screwed up my tags with the last post and I want to make my intentions clear)

Vote: Snix

[dcorbe]

ZS, allow me to clarify: You try too hard to get people to agree with you in a manner that is demeaning, bullying, and emotional. It's hard to believe someone is making an attempt at logic when all they're doing is slightly switching up the words of another person and caps'ing votes based on the fact that I frequent another forum.

You are so locked in lynching me, you've ignored the rampant scuminess of other posters in this thread. Regardless of the outcome of Day 1, I do not believe I will be playing with you in the future. It is not fun when someone takes this game so seriously that I can hear screaming coming out of my speakers when I read the text.

You are too emotional, and guided by this stubborn, ignorant anger that you have continued to throw around at people so much that you've essentially alienated your way from everyone. You are, in my opinion, too emotional to be playing this game. I don't expect you to listen to my opinion, or to read a great deal of the reasoning Mokina has left behind without belittling it to one-liners and accepting possibilities that don't incriminate me personally (like the one TSN suggested). Or even to actually define your reasoning for voting on anything based on something other than "I don't like him because he said no-lynch is good" which is a statement I have now retracted.

You post about 3 sentences and somehow elongate it to last 5 paragraphs. More content, less angry yelling please. Now, I will watch you more scrutinizingly as well as Darla, because you have not paid heed to the reasoning posted by Snix, Mokina, and myself and instead pursued me relentlessly more based on emotion than what you refer to as "logic" (i.e. repeated phrases that are nothing more than cleverly disguised rhetoric for the same thing you posted the last time).

*This post was made in clear state of mind, without anger and an opinion that ZombieSlayer54 is not enjoyable to play with regardless of his role; with a total separation from any emotion (other than perhaps a slight amusement at the simple-minded manner ZS goes about in dealing with other players).*

I would seriously slow down with calling anyone else here emotional. Nobody likes to be called ignorant or have their judgement called into question constantly. That itself is a knee-jerk response.

[dcorbe]

This isn't about "how much you like someone" this is about finding scum. If I were trying to play this game based on pleasing people or how much I liked someone, I would've voted for him long ago. I disagree with his judgment, because he's calling me scum--and doing so in an insulting manner (which he has been long before I had anything to say to him). I am not scum, I will not stand by and let myself get bandwagoned by the people who are currently on my case, sorry.

My point was simply that you can make your case without feeding into someone else's emotional state, which is precisely what you're doing by calling them ignorant.

[dcorbe]

This isn't about "how much you like someone" this is about finding scum. If I were trying to play this game based on pleasing people or how much I liked someone, I would've voted for him long ago. I disagree with his judgment, because he's calling me scum--and doing so in an insulting manner (which he has been long before I had anything to say to him). I am not scum, I will not stand by and let myself get bandwagoned by the people who are currently on my case, sorry.

My point was simply that you can make your case without feeding into someone else's emotional state, which is precisely what you're doing by calling them ignorant.

You'll look a little more grown-up that way.

[dcorbe]

Point taken and understood.

I'd like to get that business behind us, Darla and ZS can keep their votes for me. And Mike-Zim, your vote needs to be bolded, although I think you missed the point of TSN's post.

I will be waiting to hear from Lowell, and more defense from Snix--who could really use it at L-5 (I think).

By my count he's only got 4 votes on him, not 5.

You've got 2. If Mike-zim validates his vote that will be 3.

[dcorbe]

@mod

an official vote count por favor?

[dcorbe]

See, except. . . that doesn't make any sense.

What does not make any sense?

I would never vote someone just because I did not like them.

However, I am voting Eldritch Lord due to the fact that he refuses to try to counter my logic using anything but "It is just Snix's logic" or "It is just emotion".

The fact that I do not like him makes me keep my vote on him that much more.

What I believe Eldritch Lord is trying to say is he specifically repudiated Snix's points against him, and that he doesn't believe that you have made any additional points in your case against him than snix has.

See post #55, for example.

I believe what you're saying is that you have made additional points in the case against Eldritch Lord and he hasn't addressed your concerns. Try quoting posts instead of yelling at the rest of us.

[dcorbe]

Okay, yet again...I am going to have to go out on a limb here and say to everyone involved in this world war of text that IT IS JUST A GAME!!! ZombieSlayer, Eldritch, one word...chill. Both of you need to calm down. I'm not positive, but I think I speak for everyone when I say that having to read a freaking novel about why so and so is scummy every time I log on is kinda annoying.

Is this your first game?

[dcorbe]

Unvote

Okay. The random/psuedo stage is over; we probably have enough material here. I need to sit down, pour myself a cup of coffee, and read through the entire thing again.

As a reminder, the following players are still alive:

Mokina
TheSweatpantsNinja
Iron Man
ZombieSlayer54
DarlaBlueEyes
Eldritch Lord
Snix
dcorbe
sideney
donkeyz12212
mike-zim
Lowell

As mentioned earlier, lurkers scare me to no end. Just from first impressions, I've got my eye on Lowell, Darla, and mike-zim on that count. I'll list my suspicions in a bit and I suggest others do the same. Perhaps someone will stand out.

Seriously, wouldn't it have been easier for you to say "everyone is alive?"

[dcorbe]

@Dcorbe

Uhm.. my aggressors at that point were two band wagoners who had as of yet posted no mind of their own. While I had already explained, and for my purposes, won with my own.

Our attentions should be more focussed on people who actually deserve it though.

Your current aggressors are fairly active posters who have yet to back their votes out. This is going to look to others in the group like a good reason to continue pushing your wagon. If I were you I'd take a little bit of time to go back through the thread so far and reorganize your thoughts into one clear and concise post making sure to touch on every point made thus far in support of your wagon.

[dcorbe]

I think we need the mod to prod her

[dcorbe]

Also, EL seems very agitated at me for keeping my vote on him for what are in his words, no good reasons, When I do have them, I have stated them, And his reaction to my vote that isn't even that threatening seems very suspect as well.

He hasn't done much scum hunting, Attacking ZS who reacts very emotionally but whome I think is town, and singling out a lurker, who gave reasonale excuse for his absence in a recent post.

I'd liek to see him do more to locate scum and this Alliance with Mokina to be scrutinized.

We can always put your theory on a Mokina/EL scum alliance to the test. We can lynch EL today (since his bandwagon is already being pushed, he's the logical choice).

We've got a 1/12 chance of being correct but whether we are correct or not, it would be a very educational experience.

If he turns out to be scummy, we can build a strong case to push a Mokina wagon tomorrow.

If he turns out to be a townie, the Mokina gets a pass, and we can begin examining some of the relationships around both of them.

Discussion?

[dcorbe]

Also, EL seems very agitated at me for keeping my vote on him for what are in his words, no good reasons, When I do have them, I have stated them, And his reaction to my vote that isn't even that threatening seems very suspect as well.

He hasn't done much scum hunting, Attacking ZS who reacts very emotionally but whome I think is town, and singling out a lurker, who gave reasonale excuse for his absence in a recent post.

I'd liek to see him do more to locate scum and this Alliance with Mokina to be scrutinized.

We can always put your theory on a Mokina/EL scum alliance to the test. We can lynch EL today (since his bandwagon is already being pushed, he's the logical choice).

We've got a 1/12 chance of being correct but whether we are correct or not, it would be a very educational experience.

If he turns out to be scummy, we can build a strong case to push a Mokina wagon tomorrow.

If he turns out to be a townie, the Mokina gets a pass, and we can begin examining some of the relationships around both of them.

Discussion?

Please note I'm NOT advocating that we rush towards a Lynch. I would like to see how others react to this idea, and keep the conversation going.

[dcorbe]

Snix and Lowell? How do you feel about this? Sideney has promised to post. Hopefully mike-zim and dcorbe will voice their thoughts too. This is the kind of situation the entire town has to look at, and there may be something we have missed.

I have reasons to be suspicious of both, but I don't Lowell is a good target for a day one lynch since he's flying a little under the radar right now. I think if he continues to fly under the radar then he becomes an excellent lynch target.

Wake up and start interacting with the rest of us, dude.

EL and Snix are both excellent day 1 targets. I've already gone into a little bit of detail why but I need a chance to sit down and really organize my thoughts into a comprehensive post.

[dcorbe]

Vote: Eldritch Lord

because his recent posts stink of scum.

[dcorbe]

Sorry, forgot to

Unvote

first

Vote: Eldritch Lord

[dcorbe]

L-1. Waiting for the hammer.

My dying wish is just that Darla and Mokina get looked into when I come up town. As well as Lowell and Mike-Zim.

And that Sideney gets replaced.

I can't argue this, this is ridiculous. Every time I try to defend myself, it becomes "He's too obsessed with defending himself." Every time I try to scumhunt, I'm just votehopping.

I guess I have to do a bit more studying before I really start playing this game.

If you do come up townie when you get lynched, it won't be in vein. It will provide us valuable information to go on for the next round of scum hunting because you've interacted with just about everyone here.

If you come up scummy, all of a sudden those pushing your wagon look extremely clean.

Don't take it personally that you're being lynched on day 1.

[dcorbe]

Hammer: Please wait. I have come to a realization.

What realization have you come to?

[dcorbe]

caught up.

EL seems pretty ' You guys suck you'll See!! I'm town you're being dumb '

if he is NOT scum, I will be very surprised, and fully expect to take the heat, but you can clearly see I had more than enough reasons to cast my vote and suspect him.

And as dcorbe said, I'd like to know what your realization was.

I hope you're right and he's scum because with this statement (at least in my mind) you've completely tied yourself to his fate. You seem to be pushing his wagon awfully hard. You're going to look EXTREMELY scummy if he turns up town.

Anyone agree with that assessment of the situation? Or am I off base here.

-Daniel

[dcorbe]

Unvote, vote dcorbe.

Dcorbe is a much, much better lynch than either el or mokina.

Consider: Dcorbe puts el at L-1, saying "his last posts stink of scum."

A little bit later, he says this: "If you come up scummy, all of a sudden those pushing your wagon look extremely clean."

Fair enough.

But, a little bit later, he says this: "I hope you're right and he's scum because with this statement (at least in my mind) you've completely tied yourself to his fate. You seem to be pushing his wagon awfully hard. You're going to look EXTREMELY scummy if he turns up town."

He's already setting up his next mislynch! He jumped on the wagon with as little noise as possible, but then told the leader, "you'll look scummy if he comes up town."

'Fraid not, dcorbe. You'll look scummy if he comes up town, and since I think EL is almost definitely town, you look scummy now.

I probably used the wrong words to express the fact that I was trying to get Darla to be a little more careful about proceeding with the lynch, even though I jumped on the wagon and left him at L-1 for a little while. I can see how that action can be perceived as scummy but it really wasn't my intention.

I'm going to back off my vote now (and look even scummier)

Unvote

Take it as you will,, but if I have to take heat for this exchange, so be it.

[dcorbe]

I suppose I need to address El's rant first:

Post History And Beyond:

First post is Post Number 67:

Sorry for the delay in posting guys. I confirmed my role PM and then completely forgot about the game.

I owe you a read, MTF...

Okay, good excuse...kind of. Still semi-lurking, though in an understandable fashion.

Second post is Post Number 69:

Vote Mokina wanna cyber?

Despite the fact that there is some actual action at this point, he totally random votes for someone with a vote already sitting on them. Forgivable in itself, but when lined up with other posts...

Third Post isn't until 119:

The signal:noise ratio in here is still a little bit high. It seems like nobody is really giving any compelling reasons to hold their votes the way they are and the ones on the defensive are doing a pretty poor job of defending themselves.

All I have to say right now is this:

It seems like some of the people pushing the eldritch wagon right now are the ones who lurk the most right now.

It really sounds like a scum-driven wagon to me.

So.. based on that..

FoS: Eldritch Lord

because I'd like to hear more of what you have to say first

FoS: Daria and ZombieSlayer
Unvote

This is as close to reasoning as he gets, he bashes others for lurking and calls it a scum-driven wagon, but he himself has not posted in 60 posts. Behold the FoS on the EL "scum-driven" wagon, which might justify a future vote but also FoS' the leaders of the wagon to make sure his arse is covered either way.

You haven't given me a reason to stop suspecting you yet. This the first time you've even bothered to respond to anything I've had to say so far. What took you so long? You were at one point ready to quit the game completely because you were L-1 and for plenty of good reasons.

Two posts later:

It really looks like you're trying to deflect attention off onto your aggressors with this post.

Unvote (just because I screwed up my tags with the last post and I want to make my intentions clear)

Vote: Snix

He goes in an entirely different direction only 2 posts later, either he is on very sporadically, or realized his mistake in the post 2 above this one and had to abandon his lurking to change it. Furthermore, this is an existing bandwagon and he offers little to no reasoning beyond "It looks like you're defending yourself while scumhunting." <--Read: Possible straw-man, waiting for his justification.

Why not? Why can't I build a case against two people at once? I simply called a vote for snix because I wanted to put additional pressure on him to get him to explain himself. I simply unvoted you, I did not and still have not backed off of my suspicions yet.

I would seriously slow down with calling anyone else here emotional. Nobody likes to be called ignorant or have their judgement called into question constantly. That itself is a knee-jerk response.

Pointless meta ad-hom, ignoring. Next couple posts are the same.

How is that an attack on you personally? Even the Mod told you guys to cool it down a bit.

Seriously, wouldn't it have been easier for you to say "everyone is alive?"

She was clarifying...strange that you would find yourself able to make a comment on this and not what was actually going on in the game since your last scumhunter post before that took place quite a while before this one. Perhaps you had nothing to add, this is nothing extremely remarkable.

I was asking a question, because I didn't know why she did that. That's all. Notice that nobody else has brought it up again, not even her.

You're taking every single thing I've ever said and twisting it into your own logic in the hopes that the mere appearance of impropriety will somehow redeem you and in an instant you'll go from looking anti-town to looking pro-town.

We can always put your theory on a Mokina/EL scum alliance to the test. We can lynch EL today (since his bandwagon is already being pushed, he's the logical choice).

We've got a 1/12 chance of being correct but whether we are correct or not, it would be a very educational experience.

If he turns out to be scummy, we can build a strong case to push a Mokina wagon tomorrow.

If he turns out to be a townie, the Mokina gets a pass, and we can begin examining some of the relationships around both of them.

Discussion?

Hm...I don't think I need to say anything about this post except that he is setting up a Mokina lynch for the next day, kind of like what TSN noticed with DBE.

Of course I was setting up a Mokina lynch for day 2. If she's going to tie herself to you, and you get lynched, why shouldn't we suspect her? I like how you're focusing on this particular aspect of my post though, when I went on to say that other things regarding a possible scum alliance between the two of you.

Way to twist my words to suit your own defense.

But here comes the cover-up:

Please note I'm NOT advocating that we rush towards a Lynch. I would like to see how others react to this idea, and keep the conversation going.

It, like the other cover-up post earlier in his history, comes almost immediately after his first post as though he realized he committed some huge slip. Not a case in and of itself, but a big point in the graph.

If you do come up townie when you get lynched, it won't be in vein. It will provide us valuable information to go on for the next round of scum hunting because you've interacted with just about everyone here.

If you come up scummy, all of a sudden those pushing your wagon look extremely clean.

Don't take it personally that you're being lynched on day 1.

Certainty, the kind I shared that I would be lynched. He is still setting up the next mislynch with the "if you come up townie, we can get those other people" as though he had not contributed to my wagon.

I hope you're right and he's scum because with this statement (at least in my mind) you've completely tied yourself to his fate. You seem to be pushing his wagon awfully hard. You're going to look EXTREMELY scummy if he turns up town.

Anyone agree with that assessment of the situation? Or am I off base here.

-Daniel

TSN answered this and justified most of my reasoning for the vote.

I probably used the wrong words to express the fact that I was trying to get Darla to be a little more careful about proceeding with the lynch, even though I jumped on the wagon and left him at L-1 for a little while. I can see how that action can be perceived as scummy but it really wasn't my intention.

I'm going to back off my vote now (and look even scummier)

Unvote

Take it as you will,, but if I have to take heat for this exchange, so be it.

Backing off in such a manner almost makes it seem as though he's anticipating the scum-points he's about to earn. That still does not make the scumminess of this point disappear, it exists and the attempt to deflect it by anticipating it is pretty obvious in my eyes.

That is my case against Dcorbe. I am too lazy to proof-read it at the moment, so please deal with grammatical errors when quoting me if you happen to find them.

You're trying desperately at this point to cover up the fact that you're scum and you almost got yourself busted by diverting attention onto me simply because I acknowledged that a couple of my recent actions could possibly be perceived as scummy. You read my last posts and figured that I was your quick out, so now you're trying to build a case against me by twisting my words and actions to mean something that they do not.

Unvote

Vote: Eldritch Lord

[dcorbe]

I think he's town because nothing he's done makes me think he's scum. Darla's case is that he's been jumping around, which, as I've already said, I don't have a huge problem with on day 1. Not all of his scum selections have been bandwagons, either.

Mokina: The problem with a claim is is that we have no ability to evaluate its accuracy. A counterclaim is meaningless. There might be six cops, there might be none.

Why shouldn't he claim? If it does him no good to claim right now, it does him no harm either. There's people here who keep proclaiming that they get a pro-town vibe from EL but so far have not said much of anything else in his defense. I would like those people to explain themselves as well.

Hindsight is always 20/20 and what he actually tells us about himself when he does claim could be potentially useful in the future.

Right now he's been hovering around L-1/L-2 for a while, which should tell us two things.

Either 1) The scum is already on the wagon and he really is pro-town
or 2) He is scum, and his scum buddies aren't going to drop the hammer on them because it would put them at a disadvantage.

What he has to say for himself if and before he does get lynched might help us determine a few more things about the others in this thread.

So, @EL: Claim now, tells us why we should believe you or be lynched!

[dcorbe]

Why shouldn't he claim? If it does him no good to claim right now, it does him no harm either. There's people here who keep proclaiming that they get a pro-town vibe from EL but so far have not said much of anything else in his defense. I would like those people to explain themselves as well.

...

So, @EL: Claim now, tells us why we should believe you or be lynched!

Please see TSN's reasoning for why a claim from EL wouldn't make sense.

I read TSN's post and I disagree with him wholeheartedly. Further, I don't need to be referred to the thread again like I haven't been following along, or that I don't understand what's going on here. I may be a noob but I'm not a complete idiot.

I'll sum it up... if EL is a doc he can do nothing to convince us. In the C/9ths setup, there's no such thing as a counterclaim so we'll have no reason to believe his claim. And if we

do

decide against a lynch, the scum will simply shoot him tonight and we'll be out a doc anyway.

No, a claim is a bad idea, dcorbe.

Eldritch has put enough time into analysis and scumhunting to count as protown on D1. New-scum just aren't that aggressive. By and large, they are lurkers, and that's one thing we can't accuse him of.

[/quote]

How does this make him pro town? Calling out a lurker is one of the easier things to do in this game. Scum can use that as a tactic to hide their scuminess just as much as a townie can use that as a tactic to prod people.

A claim is a bad idea only if it hurts him. How does claiming right now hurt him? Short answer: it doesn't

Your next question might be: How does it help him? It really doesn't if we don't believe him; however, I (and most would agree) that it's a good idea to at least wait for a claim before dropping the hammer. This gives him time to plead his case, gives us time to listen to counter arguments from EL supporters (and there are apparently EL supporters here), and most importantly it gives him time to build a counter case as well.


You ignored the point I made about the social engineering aspects of this game.

[dcorbe]

A claim is a bad idea only if it hurts him. How does claiming right now hurt him? Short answer: it doesn't

Actually, it does. Or at least it hurts the town, which el is a part of.

Consider his three possible claiming options: Cop, Doc, vanilla townie.

No matter what the claim is, we can't tell if its true. There isn't going to be a counterclaim (well, there might be, but then we'd just have a fool). So our decision to lynch him can't be based on the claim. Which takes away all the benefits of claiming. The only way el isn't getting lynched is if he argues away from it on his own merits.

Considering that, a claim only hurts us. If he claims vanilla, scum know who not to kill, if he claims a power role, scum know who to kill.

Dcorbe picks up some more scum points for rolefishing.

I agree with TheSweatpantsNinja, Dcorbe's rolefishing is very scummy. My case against the pair El and TSN is gone. For now.

Telling me how I'm "picking up scum points" isn't going to get me to back down. I still disagree with you. I'm not fishing for a counterclaim from anyone. I'm fishing for arguments against an EL lynch, which so far you and mokina have failed to provide other than to say that "EL is town" and then pick on me for my play style in an attempt to divert the town's attention away from EL.

Seriously, why shouldn't we lynch el? We've already heard what El has to say, but the rest of his supporters seem not to have opinions.

And I couldn't possibly disagree with you more about your stance on a claim. I'm of the opinion that it's ALWAYS appropriate to claim.

-Daniel

[dcorbe]

I think el is town because I'm not convinced by the arguments that el is scum, and the odds are in favor of him being town.

But regarding claiming, appropriate and pro-town are not the same. Make an argument that it is in the towns interest to have anyone claim in this setup day 1.

If you're so unconvinced of the arguments that EL is scum, he must have said or done SOMETHING worthy of dismissing the arguments of his aggressors in your mind.

If you're so adamant that El has a pro-town role, and the rest of us are so wrong, why aren't you trying to do more to convince us not to push the El wagon any further? Why can't you stand up and make a pro-el argument instead of repeating the words "El is not scum" over and over again.

While we're on the subject, your play style is short and bursty posting which really doesn't seem to clarify your positions on anything at all. The only thing you've done so far is cast doubt and shift suspicion around. You attempts to say the absolute minimum possible to explain your positions aren't very helpful to the rest of us.

[dcorbe]

I think he's town because nothing he's done makes me think he's scum. Darla's case is that he's been jumping around, which, as I've already said, I don't have a huge problem with on day 1. Not all of his scum selections have been bandwagons, either.

Please engage and respond prior to telling me I haven't said anything as to why EL is town. And more to the point, he hasn't said or done something to dispel the arguments,

the arguments are poor.

And yes, my playstyle is short posts. I don't like writing long posts, and I definitely don't like reading them.

Unfortunately, Darla isn't the only person here who has picked up the El wagon and pushed it. You're trying to disarm me by pretending that you've said anything of substance so far.

[dcorbe]

Look dude,

We could keep arguing back and fourth for the next 3 pages or you could provide some fresh insight into this problem. That's all I want is to hear some fresh opinions on the El wagon.

When El comes back from V/LA I'm sure he'll have something to say in his defense as well.

[dcorbe]

Unfortunately, Darla isn't the only person here who has picked up the El wagon and pushed it. You're trying to disarm me by pretending that you've said anything of substance so far.

You're trying to disarm me by pretending I haven't. But you're right, there are four others on that wagon: Iron man and mike-zim are followers, zombie lord is voting for him because he doesn't like him, and your case is mostly "he voted for me in a way I didn't like," which is, as el says, OMGUS.

PS: You seem to have dropped the claim issue? Still in favor?

Of course I'm still in favor of a claim

[dcorbe]

If anyone is stupid enough to counter claim him (when we could have multiple copies of the same role) the scum know who to kill.

Agreed. Even if nobody else counterclaims him, the scum know he's a power role. If the town doesn't kill him, the scum will. The proposed roleclaim gives no new information.

If he's a power role and he gets lynched we lose it anyways.

[dcorbe]

If anyone is stupid enough to counter claim him (when we could have multiple copies of the same role) the scum know who to kill.

Agreed. Even if nobody else counterclaims him, the scum know he's a power role. If the town doesn't kill him, the scum will. The proposed roleclaim gives no new information.

If he's a power role and he gets lynched we lose it anyways.

You say this with utter certainty that I will be lynched today if I don't claim, when its already been said several times that claiming is useless. I will not claim, because it is not a certainty I will get lynched.

It bothers me that you speak as though it is.

Everything bothers you.

[dcorbe]

If he's a power role and he gets lynched we lose it anyways.

Indeed. So say he claims a power role. As town, what is our response to that, particularly day 1?

Everyone is going to react differently. It's not so much the "claim" that I'm interested in at this point, more the "why should we believe you"

I'm going to keep sticking by my guns if the subject keeps coming up but I don't feel the need to continue beating a dead horse here.

Since nobody is going to drop the hammer on El, I suppose the next best lynch target at this point is sidney. I'd like to get a discussion going on a possible sidney wagon.

-Daniel

[dcorbe]

Since nobody is going to drop the hammer on El, I suppose the next best lynch target at this point is sidney. I'd like to get a discussion going on a possible sidney wagon.

-Daniel

May i ask why it needs to be a wagon? People should make up their own minds. and comtrary to popular belief i am not just following when i voted for EL.

Because without a wagon there is no lynch? I'm just trying to get a discussion going right now, not trying to push the wagon.

[dcorbe]

Since nobody is going to drop the hammer on El, I suppose the next best lynch target at this point is sidney. I'd like to get a discussion going on a possible sidney wagon.

-Daniel

May i ask why it needs to be a wagon? People should make up their own minds. and comtrary to popular belief i am not just following when i voted for EL.

Because without a wagon there is no lynch? I'm just trying to get a discussion going right now, not trying to push the wagon.

You are not pushing a wagon? One page ago you seems pretty sure of EL's guilty, and now without explanation you are trying to drive a lynch over me? I can be less smart than you, but i don't understand this change of path. Or probably is because i agree with TSN of your rolefishing and you are thinking that because i'm more lurker of TSN i can be a more easy lynch?

I'm not abandoning the El wagon, the rest of the town is. You seem like an excellent lynch target because you A) lurk a lot and B) when you do post it's usually to agree with someone and jump on a wagon.

[dcorbe]

I'm not abandoning the El wagon, the rest of the town is. You seem like an excellent lynch target because you A) lurk a lot and B) when you do post it's usually to agree with someone and jump on a wagon.

I really don't see that as true. Sideney was all by himself attacking me for a while. He has kind of been lurking, but he's been doing better since prodded.

Dcorbe has: Argued for claims which are anti-town.
Put el at L-1 while simultaneously trying to pass the blame for the wagon to others
Tried to lead a new wagon when the el one failed on sideney

Can we lynch him?

You've been pushing to have me lynched for several pages now and you've been waiting for the opportunity to capitalize.

I don't mind burning for the town, so I'll claim now:

Claim: Townie

So go ahead and lynch me! And when you do, you and your scum buddy El will be exposed for who you are.

Result: Victory Town

[dcorbe]

"Clear Conscience" or not, my lynch is going to confirm your scum alliance with TSN. I'm not trying to scare the town away from my wagon, I welcome the wagon. I'm singling you and TSN out specifically.

I hope when I go the rest of the town will have the foresight to roll the two of you straight up to the gallows, scum.

-Daniel

[dcorbe]

Mmph.

Dcorbe, you have made yourself look VERY scummy.

I am considering switching my vote to you, I really am. I will wait a little bit more to see, though.

Go ahead, pile on the wagon dude, It's the only thing at this point which is going to add any sort of legitimacy to my arguments.

[dcorbe]

We're almost 17 pages into day 1 and we still don't have a clear lynch target. I'm certainly not a fan of a quick lynch by any means but this town suffers from ADHD, so if I have to hang myself out to dry to prove a point, at least I'll be doing my part to ensure a town victory.

[dcorbe]

It proves my case against TSN and EL because they're pushing my wagon the hardest.

[dcorbe]

it proves nothing. Honestly.

By that logic I would be scum if EL came up town because I was pushing his wagon.

People push because they have a reason to think they are scum. Its the people who push without a reason who tend to be scum. Which you have done btw.

Not saying I'm convinced you're scummy, but you have some serious crap-logic issues.

What about TSN? As soon as he replaced into the game he started calling for my wagon. Has anyone called him on his pushing for no reason? He says things like:

Things I want:

I want sideney, mike-zim, lowell, and iron man to start participating.

And I want dcorbe dead.

That is all.

anyone call him on that?

[dcorbe]

Here's how I see the game right now:

The Living:
Mokina (Pro-town, possibly either doctor or cop)
TheSweatpantsNinja (Scum, 100%)
Iron Man (Possible Scum)
ZombieSlayer54 (Possible Scum)
DarlaBlueEyes (Pro-Town)
Eldritch Lord (Most likely scum)
Snix (Possible Scum)
dcorbe (Claimed Townie)
sideney (50/50)
donkeyz12212 (No Read)
mike-zim (Pro Town)
Lowell (Pro Town)

[dcorbe]

Why would you give away doc/cop/town reads if you were Pro-Town?

I believe you are scum, but if you are pro-Town that does not seem like an intelligent move.

whatever dude

[dcorbe]

I'm going to keep watching the game to see if my vibes are correct or not. This has been an interesting learning experience and hopefully I can take that to other games with me. If I for some reason gave off the impression that I was throwing a temper tantrum that was not my intention at all.

It really doesn't matter what sort of argument I make at this point, El and TSN are both going to refute everything I have to say in my defense. TSN has been trying to push my wagon since he replaced into the game and I suspect all he's doing is praying on an easy target. I would really urge all of you to take a closer look at him because he's manipulating the town and if you keep listening to him the mob is going to walk away from this game with a victory.

I'm not 100% convinced on El anymore. Some of my antics were designed to get underneath his skin to see how he reacts. I guess goading people in this game is considered bad practice whether you're town or not.

I'm happy to hear somewhat of a defense on my behalf from Mokina but the "clueless noob" defense really shouldn't buy me any sympathy at all -- especially if I'm considered erratic and unpredictable.

If I'm regarded by the rest of the town as unhelpful because of my actions then I should be lynched regardless of my alignment or perhaps even replaced out of the game so that someone else can mount better and more logical responses to what's happening here.