Newbie 1917 - Game Over

[GuiltyLion]

VOTE: chennisden

9 feels over-explainy

[GuiltyLion]

no worries, there's not really a "standard" and people will have different opinions on how to interpret things. if you're town don't sweat it, I'll likely come around on you if you stay engaged. early game you kinda just have to start with small things and see where it leads, to me voting you for a non-random reason is incrementally better than voting a slot randomly

[GuiltyLion]

but also if you are scum then I have already caught you and you should feel an immense amount of pressure

[GuiltyLion]

May change vote to Muh due to "voting for salt"

do you think scum is more likely to "vote for salt" than town?

[GuiltyLion]

funny that two experienced players are freaking out about RVS

what makes you say "freaking out", that's a very odd choice of words

[GuiltyLion]

bc it's the only way to kill scum

Its also a good way to kill town.

good point, better not vote or lynch anybody then I guess

[GuiltyLion]

If you think that, I'll have to leave that up to you.

you don't want to ask why he thinks that?

I feel like there'd be a lot of benefits, you could understand where TTTT is coming from better to help sort his slot
you could learn something in a general sense about what behaviors may be considered scummy in games here on mafiascum

but to just say "meh, I'll leave that to you" feels decidedly not curious in a bad way, and possibly like you want to wash your hands of the attention paid to chendennis

[GuiltyLion]

And I agree with TTTT, do jump on a newbie for their first couple of posts. I should have been lynched day 1.

NMSA, welcome to the town club

[GuiltyLion]

Dude the games 30 seconds in and you are claiming to have figured it all out, tbh this looks like an early lynch gambit, with no IC trying to get newbies to collapse on one person for an early kill. Im 99.999999999% sure the things pinging your scumdar are newbies trying to learn to play.

Yeah, I kind of have to agree with this.

I also don't see why you "have to agree" with Thespio here. I feel Thespio is misrepping TTTT pretty hard, TTTT never claimed to have it all figured out and the IC point is extremely reachy. Thespio is basically inventing a scum!TTTT narrative to throw shade at him. TTTT even explicitly said not to continue to vote chendennis

I'm kinda thinking regardless of Thespio's alignment this sheepiness looks scummy from CsBlastoise, but just for page 3 bragging rights I'm wondering if this is the scumteam right here.

[GuiltyLion]

what makes you say "freaking out", that's a very odd choice of words

I it? look at the immidiate reaction from TTTT

You didn't answer my question. Why did you say "freaking out"?

and anything he posted afterwards is entirely irrelevant because you had already described him as "freaking out" and posted it by then. You also said "two experienced players", which includes me as well. Even setting TTTT aside, where was I freaking out?

(also I have looked at the entirety of TTTT's posts and I see no freaking out, so you're gonna have to show me)

[GuiltyLion]

good point, better not vote or lynch anybody then I gues

Im not saying lets no vote, im saying lets not lynch someone 1 day into the game after a very newbie set of posts.

and no one was saying to lynch him 1 day into the game, so if that was your argument then you've completely missed the point of us pressuring him and voting him. you're saying you wanted to jump in to defend a newbie because you didn't want to lynch him immediately when nobody was advocating for that. a vote on day 1 (both in real life and in the game) is not "I want this person lynched right now", and with your experience you should know that.

I also don't see why you "have to agree" with Thespio here. I feel Thespio is misrepping TTTT pretty hard, TTTT never claimed to have it all figured out and the IC point is extremely reachy. Thespio is basically inventing a scum!TTTT narrative to throw shade at him. TTTT even explicitly said not to continue to vote chendennis

I'm kinda thinking regardless of Thespio's alignment this sheepiness looks scummy from CsBlastoise, but just for page 3 bragging rights I'm wondering if this is the scumteam right here.

Do us all a favor, post what I said that was a missrep.

well, we can start with the "freaking out" thing I've already called out.

and then continue with you saying that TTTT claimed to have it all figured out. He never said that.

[GuiltyLion]

Thank you for pointing out the possibility that Thespio's actions could be scummy. I think the main part of it I agree with is not so much that TTTT is trying to push something, but that

the things TTTT may be pointing out might just be "newbies trying to learn to play."

but how can you agree on this when you don't know what "things" TTTT is pointing out or why he thinks they're scummy? You asked him if he found chen scummy and he said yes, but then you decided not to follow up, that's what I'm trying to understand. And you agreed with Thespio who seemed to be more against the idea of pressuring chendennis for what he's posted at all.

That being said, I do think we should investigate chen more, particularly by asking him directly for input and getting some participation from him — I mean, come on, he's only got five posts so far, and each one was only one line long (not counting the quote in one of them).

maybe I'm being unfair here, but if you want to ask him for input/participation, why not do that yourself?

I see votes on him as a way of getting participation from him, that's what I was doing with my opening post, and what I presume TTTT was doing as well. It's always noteworthy to me when players want to go to bat for a slot that they themselves aren't even townreading. That's a pattern that many times comes from scum, because scum will know that a questionable slot (in this case, chendennis) is town and feel a little hesitant/scared to jump on a townie's suspicions, fearing it will make them look bad for sheeping along. instead, they figure they will look like townie critical thinkers by pushing back against the common scumread du jour, and possibly earn themselves some town credit for being against a bad lynch if the lynch goes through regardless.

[GuiltyLion]

Im sorry but this makes you look dense, if you arent willing to read the game why are you queuing?

CsBlastoise, you understood exactly what I was saying (and thanks for the reply, that is helping clear some things up for me). What do you think of this comment from Thespio here?

lets just not lynch someone because of some newbie posts,

again, no one was saying to lynch.

Im more curious why you are so offensive with nothing to go on.

I'm not "offensive", I'm asking questions and applying pressure to help me sort people.

Why dont you think early posts arent NAI?

every post is potentially AI. town are always town and scum are always scum, this doesn't change whether it's an early post or a late game post. NAI posts are posts that truly could come from either alignment. AI posts are posts that you think are more likely to come from one or the other. I haven't commented at all on posts I've thought were NAI (Muh's opening, Saint's opening). I am calling out the things that I think would help me and others interpret the game and alignments involved.

why do you think im miss repping? why are you replying saying im not answering questions when I am?

already answered both of these. you still are not answering why you chose to say TTTT and I were "freaking out"

I think you might be the best place to put pressure.

I'd be quite surprised if anyone agreed with you.

[GuiltyLion]

I honestly don't know what you're even saying at this point. I don't think continuing to engage with you down this line will be productive, you don't seem to be willing or able to engage with what I've said in good faith. I will leave it to other players to decide whether they think these posts:

VOTE: chennisden

9 feels over-explainy

no worries, there's not really a "standard" and people will have different opinions on how to interpret things. if you're town don't sweat it, I'll likely come around on you if you stay engaged. early game you kinda just have to start with small things and see where it leads, to me voting you for a non-random reason is incrementally better than voting a slot randomly

but also if you are scum then I have already caught you and you should feel an immense amount of pressure

constitute "freaking out"
or
introducing "misdirection"/"chaos"

[GuiltyLion]

or a call to lynch. because that's simply not there, at all.

[GuiltyLion]

the latter should patiently restate his/her answers before demanding answers in return.

I appreciate the efforts to play moderator but I have reasons for answering the way I did. My answers to his questions are beyond clear in my ISO and I believe he is using the "you haven't answered my questions!" as further deflection/distraction from the fact that he dodged the original "why did you say freaking out" question.

[GuiltyLion]

actually, my apologies, went back and reread that and he didn't say "you haven't answered my questions", I somehow invented that in my head. Rather, he is asking me the same questions over again while dodging the primary one I asked.

[GuiltyLion]

chennis/CsBlastoise, it's not "lurking" to not post in a 24 hour window, people have lives that keep them away from the site for extended periods of time. I don't really consider someone a lurker until it's been several (as in 3 or 4+) days, including times where they've posted but failed to give content, or promised it later and then missed that self-imposed deadline.

I'm surprised by the reference to Newbie 1912. chen, what made you look at that game in particular? Did you know Loopdan is the same player as TTTT? And do you really think any time a player tunnels another player D1, they are town?

Also, you say TTTT is town tunneling too hard, and then CsBlastoise is town because he's not pushing too hard. What kind of behavior would you think is scum indicative at this point, if any?

[GuiltyLion]

hmmmmm

I'm not sure I totally buy this. 1912 is indeed a relevant game to look at, it has 3 players from this game in it, one of which was scum. So it's plausible an eager newbie town would decide to look through that game.

At the same time, the conclusion you reached from it feels quite shoehorned/surface level, you've since reversed it completely, and I have this crazy conspiracy theory that Thespio told you to bring up that game in your scum PT. there's something off about the fact that

you

are aware and commenting that it's Thespio's only scumgame. feels coached. You don't claim to have read any of my scum games or TTTT's scum games. Or even NMSA's scumgame which was also brought up in this thread.

but I don't wanna go too buckwild with D1 assumptions so I'm gonna sit on this and see what the less active slots wanna do. Did you notice Thespio ignored your question?

also, perhaps more significantly, I thought you were townreading TTTT. how did you go from this:

thoughts: TTTT is probably town tunneling too hard at the beginning. See Newbie 1912 where Enter pushed Loopdan for a D1 lynch. Somewhere between Null & Town Lean

to this:

Given he scumread me off of basically nothing, something tells me he's trying to get me killed while trying not to look like he's getting me killed. Of course there isn't that much to go off of, but rn my strongest scumread is TTTT.

[GuiltyLion]

@Thespio what makes you think people are trying to lynch me? Two of the three on my wagon are applying pressure and the other is OMGUSing(?)

[GuiltyLion]

omg URAP2! welcome, can we be town together?? TTTT/URAP2/GL townbloc but would wreck scum in this game I think

TTTT I entirely agree about how none of the newbies seem to be towntelling. If I had to pick one out of all of them it'd be CsBlastoise for town but even he is not without concern.

[GuiltyLion]

reading page 6 kinda made me weirdly want to townread chendennis

let me collect my thoughts then I'll post some good content

[GuiltyLion]

Reading your ISO, I think I need to engage GL a little more. It would be really sad if he gets away with lynching me (if he's mafia) and you get all the flak for it (if you're the town).

And what doesn't add up?

rn reading through your ISO

you're making a lot of claims, but they aren't really backed up by lots of information. Some quotes seem intentionally vague. TTTT, you are my scumread.

When GL comes back, I'll ask him some questions. If I don't like his answers, I will hop on his wagon for pressure.

wait shoot i should read what i said

i think i was backwards-justifying why I looked at 1912.

regardless i just forgot.

these posts in particular felt kinda town to me looking at this game with fresh eyes today

like I don't know if newbscum!Chen thinks to post 134, that just kinda vibes fundamentally honest paranoia about me. and then 136 doesn't feel like scum lying either. I think what was pinging me earlier may be just kinda awkwardness and trying to play "correctly" in a sense

chen if you're town just stop worrying about appeasing some standard of mafia play and just answer questions and ask ones you think will help

[GuiltyLion]

Scum leaning: TTTT, GuiltyLion, and chennisden. In fact, the accusations going back and forth may actually be them working together to up front prove they are not scum and last in the game longer.
Null: Thespio and pretty much everyone else. I don't know why Thespio but... it's just a feeling... may not even been substantiated.

these reads concern me

why would TTTT or myself be scum with chennisden? I don't see why you'd think we'd open with a hardcore distancing gambit like that. And given that at least one of us three has to be town, that should make you question the validity of such a "working together" narrative from the get-go, because either way you slice it (either TTTT or myself being scum with chendennis) means there's at least one townie doing the behavior that you're casting as scummy (accusing/interacting with the other).

I can show you many past scumgames of me treating my newbie scum partners with kiddie gloves, especially on D1 since I don't like unnecessary attention on them until/unless I'm confident they can handle it.

[GuiltyLion]

(which I would hope not be the case in a newbie game)

eh okay maybe this is town

VOTE: Thespio

who is up for this lynch

[GuiltyLion]

but for the record the role distribution is entirely random, so it is entirely possible that two SEs could be scum together.

[GuiltyLion]

I think you're saying Muh's inactivity is scummy.

And here's why I agree:

Let's say I get lynched. Well, I know I'll flip town. This is not good for Town.

Let's say you get lynched. If you're town (from your POV you are ConfTown) this is bad.

And inactive/lurking scum wouldn't have to do anything for it!

I thought this post explained it fairly well from a town!perspective.

he's OMGUSing you but it's the kinda newbie-style OMGUS I see often, where they lean towards the most vocal player pushing them to be scum bc they don't know yet how to discern between town pushing/sorting and scum pushing/sorting. combined with simultaneously being paranoid with inactive slots and I think decent odds he's town still figuring out how to play.

I'm not totally ruling out him scum but I kinda want to work with the game state perspective of him being town for a little bit to see if that feels better.

[GuiltyLion]

reading up

[GuiltyLion]

yooo, GL

I got your spot on this wagon saved

Let's talk. Where are you at on Chenn rn?

@TTTT and @GL how are you guys feeling rn

honestly I dunno. He's not a bad lynch but the lack of any real counterwagons/other-players-of-interest throughout the day is giving me some cold feet, and every now and then chendennis writes a post that registers on the towndar. I'm still interested in feeling better about some of my other nully-scummy slots before I land back on chendennis.

Over the weekend I decided my reason for townreading noodle was bad (he could have faked that dumbtell) and I'm still not liking anything from Thespio. I do still see NMSA as town though so we should hash that one out

[GuiltyLion]

actually hold up I was gonna ISO Thespio to call out some posts by him I didn't like but all of the sudden rereading them again I saw them as way more townie looking than I had remembered

[GuiltyLion]

So I started out thinking he was a newbie, which due to my own inactivity kind of fell stale, after my re read it evolved to a scum/lean due to the number of posts, BUT I do see random tidbits that seem to be town, so by the end im leaning ever so slightly scum. Ive just never seen a newbie post so much as town, maybe its their meta? I still think Guilty is a place we should be looking, but if this is where pressure is needed here is what i want to know:

If you are town, why do you need to post a million and 1 times?

like at first I thought this was scum pivoting to prep a vote on a mislynch to get it through, but then I realized it's also nearly exactly how I feel so maybe I can't really read him as scum for it

pls state intent to hammer and why, should you feel it necessary
and dear god please don’t be a joat that self hammers (tttt may be the only one to get that one)
VOTE: ChennisDen

Do you think its odd there is no other major wagon?

and this is a good question

[GuiltyLion]

(he could have faked that dumbtell)

sorry, she* could have faked that dumbtell

VOTE: screamingnoodle

I like this vote. She's mostly sitting on the sidelines, hasn't voted since RVS, and the "conspiracy theory" idea of TTTT/myself being buddies with chendennis still pings me as the stuff newbie scums think sounds like real scumhunting. And repeated sideline posting without actually doing anything game advancing feels to me like a better d1 scumtell than chen newbie posting a lot of hard to interpret weirdness

and we all missed this inconsistency on first go round:

Though, I wont be changing my vote unless I have a reason to believe the person is not for team town.

UNVOTE: Chan

In kind, returning the favor. Lol

But still no idea who to vote for. Looks like we are leaning TTTT, though. Idk

[GuiltyLion]

I was just surprised that right out the gate people were analyzing each other with no basis to go on. That to me is a red flag of sorts.

and also like, if this is really such a red flag

i'm not really seeing that attitude manifest in what screamingnoodle decides to post or turn into any initiative she's taken this game. she called me a scumread but I've felt no pressure from her at all, and with further thought it seems contradictory to me that she would think "people making baseless accusations are scummy" but then also think chen is scummy. If chen is scummy then the people accusing him are likely onto something, so I don't really grok this as a townie thought process

[GuiltyLion]

actually meh

just reread noodle again and i can kinda see it as consistent

hard game so far imo. i'm tempted to just switch back to chendennis and ride it out because of the inconsistency highlighted in 228, does seem pretty hard to see that coming from town the more I think on it plus him bringing up that game was always weird in general

but the cold feet, they remain

[GuiltyLion]

noodle the reason I am scumreading you is because I don't think you've done anything this entire game to help yourself or others figure out who scum is

[GuiltyLion]

@GL, Okay, finally getting an answer. Thank you. Exactly how am I supposed to help do that? Call out Chen for voting me? Oh wait... I did that in which you kinda took the reins and ran with. Am I to jump into the spotlight and point fingers without any information to go on... and expect everyone to make their case on why they arn't? I've said time and time again we have nothing substantial and I think we need to come to a lynch as we can all probably learn a lot when that happens. (See response from Echo, I feel this would just be a round robin if this is what you expect.)

re: how am I supposed to help, jump into the spotlight - uh, yes that's exactly what would help? What else are we supposed to do today? but I don't think we should be concerned with people making cases for why they are town at this stage, much like yours it's going to be unconvincing regardless of who it comes from. What helps a lot more is to be making cases on each other and exploring/justifying scumreads, because then we can see who is thinking like an uninformed townie vs who is making up fake reasoning to push a mislynch. so I would expect town to be talking to people, pressuring people, proactively sharing thoughts and working with their townreads to sort their scumreads, but so far you seem to have an aversion towards doing this.

You keep talking about how we don't have "information" but what in your opinion qualifies as actually good information that would be worthy of a scumread/vote? Because if you have mafia experience in your past I would expect you to understand that town has to make votes and get into arguments to get information, especially on D1.

[GuiltyLion]

Found it...
254
I don't see scum!NotMy openly sheeping the third vote onto a mislynch
I read that post as genuine

oh interesting. This is actually the post that makes me scum read NMSA and also the one that made me start to reconsider on chenn. I thought this was exactly how scum!nmsa would hop on a mislynch

This is the point on which we build our town bloc. Why does scum!nmsa not do this?

can I jump in on this or do you want TTTT to answer first

[GuiltyLion]

oh NMSA is probably town, too. Let's call it town lean because he's a smart guy and could probably improve dramatically from game 1 to game 2. i'll look more into that idea later

Not even done reading through the thread after my crazy workload from today but )))))) also town!TTTT plus town!urap2 means an almost certain town win, and I'm reading them both that way (they're both playing the exact same way they did in 1915), so town chances don't look bad even if I'm forced to lurk all game from meatworld responsibilities.

Hi, my school blocks Mafia and I had to sleep, so I wasn't on for a while.

I will read through and give thoughts.

It's stupid as all heck, but seriously, greeting the thread (esp in first posts, but later too I bet) comes from newb!scum way way more often than from newb!town

I agree here, it's basically how they caught me in 1915, which (to forestall argument) I will continue to cite constantly all game, since it's my only experience on here.

No time to respond to everything rn, but if I'm forced to continue lurking, I'm going to sheep urap and TTTT unless one flips scum, since my reads so far pretty much line up. Thus, VOTE: chennisden

I had a few thoughts on this

- noting that he might be "forced to lurk all game" without any apparent concern about whether he'd get lynched over it feels town
- i agree with TTTT that I think scum sheeping onto a mislynch would likely be more self conscious about it, i don't know if scum!NMSA is sophisticated enough to fake a blasé attitude yet.
- the way he repeatedly references his past game signals to me that he's excited to scumhunt? idk when I write this out it feels like a reach but I get the vibe that he's coming at this from "oh I'm town now and this is how I was scum and caught in my last game", felt that with his opening post too, it just kinda strikes me as someone who genuinely wants to catch scum / is happy to have rolled town alignment

plus I think a big reason is simply that I read his past scumgame and he felt like total obvscum in that one but here i'm not seeing any of that at all

[GuiltyLion]

I don't have an aversion to this at all... Have you seen my posts today? Yes, I guess I should be more on the offensive rather that the defensive. It's certainly a better strategy. I guess I just post the first thing that comes to my head and I tend to be on the defense as is my personality.
So I'll point fingers with no basis, and you can do the same and we are suppose to magically come to the same conclusion? Cool.

I feel you're misrepping here, or trying to make my argument look bad

it's not a simple matter of offensive/defensive, you can be active and involved without being too aggressive. I'd categorize it more as engaged/disengaged. Engaged people are proactively commenting on stuff, bringing new thoughts/ideas to the table, demonstrating that they are trying to generate information and using information they've gained to inform their reads. disengaged people are floating in the thread and not making an impact, don't seem to particularly care who gets voted/wagoned, don't seem to care if people disagree/ignore their posts. I would categorize your ISO so far as disengaged and would be surprised if you disagree with me.

also what makes you say "no basis". I've given reasons for nearly all of my votes/reads and put a lot of thought into many of my posts - yes oftentimes it is my interpretation and not grounded in 100% solid empirical fact, but it still constitutes a "basis" for where and why I'm pointing fingers.

also you didn't answer my question about what you think would actually constitute a "good" reason or actual "information" to vote/scumread someone.

[GuiltyLion]

I think if there's scum in my blind spot it's Echo - I like his reads this game so I haven't taken too critical of an eye towards his posts but there are some things there that could be scum-indicative after you get a few surprising townflips first

but I've also been thinking that chendennis/screaming noodle scumteam would actually make a lot of sense here

[GuiltyLion]

yeah don't hammer yet, we got time, I want some updates from CsBlastoise

chennisden with another quantum simultaneous town/scum post... if noodle flips scum I sorta see that as a town L-1 but if she's a mislynch then that's a real bad looking hop on

And you have no idea who to lynch probably because you are scum looking for an easy mislynch at this point.

chennisden, wouldn't you say you were the easy mislynch? why does scum!screaming noodle indicate a scumread on you yet fail to vote you or continue to pressure you at any point today?

[GuiltyLion]

and whoever said that there is at most 1 scum on the wagon, then that means there is at least 1 off

[GuiltyLion]

yeah I kinda just want to power lynch chen now

my bad for barking up the wrong tree with noodle

[GuiltyLion]

VOTE: chennisden

back to L-1 again

[GuiltyLion]

page top to remind everyone that chen is at L-1

[GuiltyLion]

Lion do you think its odd, when we tryed to lynch chen there wasnt any other wagon going? and now when we start pushing noodle we have U R A Person 2 flipping onto chen? to me that looks SUPER scummy.

no

there not being any counterwagon to chen makes sense if he is scum, especially because both you and CsBlastoise defended the slot without really doing much pushing elsewhere, and screaming noodle (if town) has also basically not been participating that much

and I agree with URAP2 completely that chennisden's comment about 1 scum off wagon looks like a bonafide scumslip. add that to his contradicting himself on why he read Newbie 1912 and I'm totally satisfied with a lynch there today, it's not like he's ever going to be a slot that you never lynch this game

[GuiltyLion]

and whoever said that there is at most 1 scum on the wagon, then that means there is at least 1 off

i'm wondering if it's possible that scum!chen makes this post when teamed with scum!noodle

my heart says yes but my brain says no

[GuiltyLion]

Lion do you think its odd, when we tryed to lynch chen there wasnt any other wagon going? and now when we start pushing noodle we have U R A Person 2 flipping onto chen? to me that looks SUPER scummy.

Same exact thought I had on this.. Very scummy

I mean, I dont think you are scum necessarily but this looks like scum switching to someone they read as a PR, seeing as there was no claim from chen.

are you ignoring or missing the point about how chen scumslipped?

he said one scum on wagon / one scum off wagon referring to noodle, while he was voting her. for him to be town that implies that either he thinks there are more than 2 scum or he thinks that noodle is town while putting her at L-1. it makes a lot more sense to think chen is just newbscum who was too eager to post something that sounded involved/insightful that he didn't realize he was confirming noodle as town while saying it.

[GuiltyLion]

so now, i ask this, if this is scum, was scum on or off the wagon? this question isn't to anybody in particular, open to anyone

who is "this" when you say "if this is scum" - chennisden?

I think most likely scenario is scum!chennisden on the wagon with some partner in {CsBlastoise/Thespio} off the wagon. Small small chance of noodle still being scum with chennisden but the fact that there's a risk of town!noodle in scum!chennisworld whereas probability of town!chennis/scum!noodle is much lower after chen's post, makes chen the better lynch today.

[GuiltyLion]

Meanwhile the whole time posting wifom.

ah yes where have I heard this before

Your post is just WIFOM, all over, vomited. You are digging into things with no impact, example, I conciser your actions freaking out. You say they arent, so what? who does this implicate? I say you are acting dense, you dont think you are, cool, who does this impact? scum thrive on misdirection and chaos and thats all you have been adding to this game from your FIRST post.

[GuiltyLion]

hot take, chen is mafia power role that's why Thespio is trying so hard to save him

[GuiltyLion]

Im not saying chen isnt scum

, i just think U R A Person 2 is.

[GuiltyLion]

someone should intend to hammer chennis so we can get his fake-claim out of the way

I'll go ahead and hammer myself, screw it. VOTE: Chennisden

poggers

[GuiltyLion]

I can write a stellar case on Thespio but I want that sweet chennis scumflip first to confirm it

[GuiltyLion]

Ill be glad to hear it when he flips green and you have nothing.

why are you accepting that I would have something if he did indeed flip red

like if you were town then you'd think that I have nothing either way lmao

[GuiltyLion]

lmao

[GuiltyLion]

for the record I think he may be faking and WIFOMing his partner there but 100% scumclaim regardless

[GuiltyLion]

and yeah I was surprised we managed to save the fake even with NMSA admitting it earlier, TTTT your posts were making me laugh haha

[GuiltyLion]

I trust URAP2/TTTT to bring it home in case I die, @screamingnoodle/NMSA sheep them wherever they go

Thespio is my bet for scum

[GuiltyLion]

chennis I'll have more time for advice postgame but first and foremost don't feel bad about being caught here, this is a pretty strong town IMO and it's hard to know how to play effectively as scum until you've been both town and scum a few times and have a better sense of what townies are looking for

also I think you already did improve as the game went on, a lot of what brought you down was very early game stuff

[GuiltyLion]

tbh i hope i roll scum again, scum is by far my fav role

ah I'm jealous of people who feel this way, I used to like scum when I first started but the more I play the harder it is for me to muster up the energy/effort to play scum truly well, and I've noticed it's starting to become a meta tell on myself regarding the level of effort I can put in as town vs scum, which just makes future scum games even more taxing

[GuiltyLion]

yeah that kill doesn't make a lot of sense to me, did CsBlastoise drop any PR hints anywhere? cause if he did I totally missed them. maybe scum just figured he was spewed town by that chendennis post.

I still feel Thespio's just kinda obvscum partner, but I'm gonna wait to case it in case anyone needs convincing

[GuiltyLion]

assuming Thespio is town, who else could scum mislynch to win this game? NMSA/TTTT/URAP2 feel like extremely difficult mislynches given their interactions around chen on D1. also, with respect to URAP2/TTTT, frankly I think they would have coached chen a little bit more pregame and when he was at L-1 to claim PR to bait a counterclaim. Noodle is very likely conftown given chen's scumslip with respect to "one scum on one scum off" her wagon.

so that leaves Echo, who also looks pretty TvS in his dialogue with chen, and myself, which would be two of three mislynches needed for scum if its in the players named above^. I would have thought for any non!Thespio scum, especially if it were someone like Echo, they would definitely want Blastoise alive as a possible lynch. no matter how I try to angleshoot on this to sanity check myself I still keep coming back to the Blastoise kill being weird but not really changing my overall gamestate view that much.

and I still think chen bringing up Newbie 1912 was something that his partner told him to do, which would again point to Thespio.

[GuiltyLion]

oh wait URAP2 was a replacement - I guess that slightly nullifies the coaching point but not entirely

[GuiltyLion]

lol alright let's put an end to this

VOTE: Thespio

noodle you should reread D1, I was also the one that saved you after I built the wagon on you

[GuiltyLion]

thanks for modding, Micc! game was run super well, i actually forgot we had a few slots replaced which is always a good sign

I'm at work right now so I'll try to give some more thoughts later. But this was an enjoyable game, everyone was fun and friendly.

[GuiltyLion]

he also kinda softed a PR

lol I noticed this too, that was part of why I was backing off him a little bit