Open 750: Forest Fire (Game Over)

[themilkcartonkid]

i think the scumteam is egix/milk/bujaber

oh there's only 2 scum

bujaber/milk

is this a real townslip?

pedit: I don;t have any clue, which is why I need more to sort them

[Egix96]

^ I would say no

[Persivul]

Two reads lists which don't say much at all.

[Persivul]

Two reads lists which don't say much at all.

This was at egix in 249.

[Persivul]

Having trouble with my IP address on my mobile? I don't know when that will be resolved, but I won't be as active because of it. However, I cannot sort the following:
rb
TTTT
Vedith
Love

THe rest are in a sudoku-esque solved tower and my strongest townlean is slaxx rn, but it's a weak townlean. can you guys focus on getting more and better stuff from these guys/gals/robots? vedith's above post is a good example of "more"

So, out of 8 players:
Can't sort 4.
Other 4 are in a solved tower...which is really just 1 weak townlean.

I don't have a problem with that per se at this stage of the game, but why did he bother posting it at all? Seems LAMIST.

[Persivul]

Okay, here's the way I see things. Slaxx is town. I read his iso again and his response to me was very town.
Vedith is leaning town.
TTTT is leaning town rn, but is still mainly null
rb and lovebird are leaning scum for lurking
Pers and buj are... complicated. I want one to flip if we get to the end of the day.

Then, 6 posts later...an update, featuring scum leans on the lurkers.

[Slaxx]

I still think Egix play here is more town-Egix, even if he says nothings he’s done is outside the town meta.

Persivul baiting the lynch (I’m assuming since we discussed this publically you won’t get mad) is a towntell to me. I thought about doing it but realized with this game was going I’d rather not. I think he’s probably town.

Not for sure if RB’s thing was a townslip or not. Didn’t feel manufactured but could have plausibly been.

(Persivul, Egix)
(RB)
(TTTT, Vedith, Lovebird)
(Milk)
(Buja)

Gun to my head Id stick TTTT below the null line and Vedith above it.

Is where I’m at I think.

[Persivul]

Persivul baiting the lynch (I’m assuming since we discussed this publically you won’t get mad) is a towntell to me.

Correct. Towns usually mislynch D1 anyway, and the tree stumping feature really mitigates any damage. Any trees who thought about it should have been pretty fearless today. If lynched, you get to see who was on/off your wagon, and you're still around to push your suspects.

[Persivul]

Not for sure if RB’s thing was a townslip or not.

No. I usually play minis and so I frequently think in terms of 3 scum at first.

[Persivul]

Lovebird is due for a prod.

[BuJaber]

Persivul I got mad because you said I have an anti-town playstyle. To me that's playing against town wincon. I don't do that intentionally. Never have never will. I take that responsibility seriously. Multiple times in the past I've ignored my own feelings and tried to fix things just to avoid confusing people into mislynching me. When scum I've avoided flaking or replacing out multiple times because a) it's not fair (and not relevant to this but b) because I'm stuck with it anyway might as well practice and try to get better at it.

That said I haven't felt that you're trying to sort me at all, while I've felt that I've been giving reads and trying to sort people, so it was very shocking to be called anti-town or unproductive or whatever from someone who has less scumhunting content. The quoting thing I explained was a misunderstanding. I don't know any other reason for you to scumread me. Is it the milk scum case? What do you disagree with?
Or is it the scum theater comment? I gave my reasons for that.. you and the other 3 or 4 people that disagreed what about my reasons do you not find plausible? How do you imagine scum theater looking? More obvious than this, or more dramatic and long-winded?


As for the my performance this game.. that comment came from milk who has played only one game with me in which I was playing as a hydra. We also don't know milk's alignment. I did not agree with his statement. What I was trying to portray to him is that everyone here is not playing very townie so it's not been that easy to sort people, so it's kind of weird to say I'm playing at a subpar level when relative to this game and playerlist I'm playing well.

The obvtown thing is a fair observation if taken out of context. I said that to show you that even if I were anti-town here (I'm not), it is not something a trend with me, so it can't be my playstyle. If I were playing anti-town it would be limited to specific circumstances or as a result of the game state/environment (like this one being quite bad for a day 1).

Frankly I am scumreading you but I don't trust that read yet because I think it is pretty clear that you were biased against me which in turn made me biased towards you. A biased read can be correct, but it is better play to let it sit for a while and reevaluate it.

Let's move on...

I don't know what rb is doing but I think being divided between me/persivul is a natural response regardless of alignment. Though his earlier interactions kind of felt that he was townreading me so I dunno if he's just trying to look busy. Earlier in the game I was also very suspicious by how quick and adamant he was about townreading lovebird.

Speaking of whom, lovebird has a pretty townie start, but last forest fire we played when she was scum, she kinda lurked / did some active-lurking, while her partner hyperposted. I don't know if lovebird is inclined to repeat successful scumplay in a repeated setup, but if one of the more active posters were to flip scum, I think it'd be wrong not to suspect lovebird if she continues to lurk. I also think it's quite easy to see when lovebird is actually posting game-progressing posts or just noise, personally I feel confident I can catch her as she continues to post.

I feel fairly confident Egix is town.

I believe the best course of action is still to focus on milk and slaxx. I don't buy that it's TvT, and I think it's very possibly SvS.

Milk has also been quite manipulative, now that I see that his comment actually convinced Persivul. He's exaggerating his knowledge of my meta. (1 game that didn't even have regular mechanics). I can only assume that he's doing it to give more credibility to his fake reads.
Because I don't know why town would pretend they know someone better than they actually do.

[themilkcartonkid]

Persivul baiting the lynch (I’m assuming since we discussed this publically you won’t get mad) is a towntell to me.

Correct. Towns usually mislynch D1 anyway, and the tree stumping feature really mitigates any damage. Any trees who thought about it should have been pretty fearless today. If lynched, you get to see who was on/off your wagon, and you're still around to push your suspects.

So who should we sort this way? I think counterintuitively it should be a strong player bc then its soooooorta follow the cop for the whole day +extra town doesn't get killed

[Slaxx]

So tired of this scum theater bullshit.

It’s like people aren’t allowed to resolve conflicts or not tunnel.

Also, I did a similar thing with persuvil who you also scumread.

So, if you believed what you’re saying, you would make that connection and vote me because I’m the common thread between the two. But you seem to be throwing shade at me while actually directly pressuring Milk more because right now he’s the guy under more pressure while I’m being fairly townread.

[themilkcartonkid]

Persivul I got mad because you said I have an anti-town playstyle. To me that's playing against town wincon. I don't do that intentionally. Never have never will. I take that responsibility seriously. Multiple times in the past I've ignored my own feelings and tried to fix things just to avoid confusing people into mislynching me. When scum I've avoided flaking or replacing out multiple times because a) it's not fair (and not relevant to this but b) because I'm stuck with it anyway might as well practice and try to get better at it.

That said I haven't felt that you're trying to sort me at all, while I've felt that I've been giving reads and trying to sort people, so it was very shocking to be called anti-town or unproductive or whatever from someone who has less scumhunting content. The quoting thing I explained was a misunderstanding. I don't know any other reason for you to scumread me. Is it the milk scum case? What do you disagree with?
Or is it the scum theater comment? I gave my reasons for that.. you and the other 3 or 4 people that disagreed what about my reasons do you not find plausible? How do you imagine scum theater looking? More obvious than this, or more dramatic and long-winded?


As for the my performance this game.. that comment came from milk who has played only one game with me in which I was playing as a hydra. We also don't know milk's alignment. I did not agree with his statement. What I was trying to portray to him is that everyone here is not playing very townie so it's not been that easy to sort people, so it's kind of weird to say I'm playing at a subpar level when relative to this game and playerlist I'm playing well.

The obvtown thing is a fair observation if taken out of context. I said that to show you that even if I were anti-town here (I'm not), it is not something a trend with me, so it can't be my playstyle. If I were playing anti-town it would be limited to specific circumstances or as a result of the game state/environment (like this one being quite bad for a day 1).

Frankly I am scumreading you but I don't trust that read yet because I think it is pretty clear that you were biased against me which in turn made me biased towards you. A biased read can be correct, but it is better play to let it sit for a while and reevaluate it.

Let's move on...

I don't know what rb is doing but I think being divided between me/persivul is a natural response regardless of alignment. Though his earlier interactions kind of felt that he was townreading me so I dunno if he's just trying to look busy. Earlier in the game I was also very suspicious by how quick and adamant he was about townreading lovebird.

Speaking of whom, lovebird has a pretty townie start, but last forest fire we played when she was scum, she kinda lurked / did some active-lurking, while her partner hyperposted. I don't know if lovebird is inclined to repeat successful scumplay in a repeated setup, but if one of the more active posters were to flip scum, I think it'd be wrong not to suspect lovebird if she continues to lurk. I also think it's quite easy to see when lovebird is actually posting game-progressing posts or just noise, personally I feel confident I can catch her as she continues to post.

I feel fairly confident Egix is town.

I believe the best course of action is still to focus on milk and slaxx. I don't buy that it's TvT, and I think it's very possibly SvS.

Milk has also been quite manipulative, now that I see that his comment actually convinced Persivul. He's exaggerating his knowledge of my meta. (1 game that didn't even have regular mechanics). I can only assume that he's doing it to give more credibility to his fake reads.
Because I don't know why town would pretend they know someone better than they actually do.

I'm more saying that you CARRIED the last game even though it was an unknown setup to you. You guessed just about every scum correctly within the first two days. I do see what you're saying about everyone else, I've pointed it out to, but I know that normally strong players will want to seem clueless or incompetent as scum bc it excuses all the mislynches or activelurking

[Persivul]

Persivul I got mad because...

I. Don't. Care. Why. You're. Mad.

Long defense posts only make me more suspicious of you.

You're only at L-3.
If you're FF you get out of jail free.
If you're tree and you get lynched, you're still here, and you're conftown.

So why are you so defensive?

[BuJaber]

Having played as a firefighter before I think claiming is not a bad idea. But not today, because there will be no deaths anyway.

Here's how it will go.
Today arsonists will prime. Maybe they target FF maybe not.
FF will douse. Maybe they'll get lucky and douse the arsonist' target or not.
Tomorrow FF can claim. If they were doused n1 arsonist are forced to prime prematurely. If they were not doused n1 arsonists are going to douse them, which means all other townies are protected.

That's 2 nights without deaths or
1 night with 1 death (and n3 is safe because they have to douse again).

I don't think we had treestumps last time but I might be wrong. Anyway with treestumps in this game and FF confirmed it would give us considerable advantage when choosong strategic lynches and/or massively increase our odds of lynching scum.

Also bear in mind that arsonist don't have much incentive to lynch people they doused unless they are doing it for wifom. But if they are doing it for a wifom it is still good for town because it sacrifices a doomed townie to save an undoused player from the mislynch.

[BuJaber]

Persivul I got mad because...

I. Don't. Care. Why. You're. Mad.

Long defense posts only make me more suspicious of you.

You're only at L-3.
If you're FF you get out of jail free.
If you're tree and you get lynched, you're still here, and you're conftown.

So why are you so defensive?

Exactly because I'll be treestumped.
Gives me all the freedom to post everything I'm thinking without fear.

[Persivul]

You seem afraid to me - more concerned with pressure on yourself than with actually pushing scum reads.

[BuJaber]

So tired of this scum theater bullshit.

It’s like people aren’t allowed to resolve conflicts or not tunnel.

Also, I did a similar thing with persuvil who you also scumread.

So, if you believed what you’re saying, you would make that connection and vote me because I’m the common thread between the two. But you seem to be throwing shade at me while actually directly pressuring Milk more because right now he’s the guy under more pressure while I’m being fairly townread.

I'm saying the resolutions felt unnatural. It felt too fast and easy relative to the intensity of the conflict.

[BuJaber]

You seem afraid to me - more concerned with pressure on yourself than with actually pushing scum reads.

It's not about getting lynched. It's about being aftaid of being misunderstood or misjudged.

Being a good player is not enough if people can't tell you're a good player because this game requires a team effort.

Otherwise I could improve personally, but it might not improve my win record, because I can't win alone. Winning is secondary to enjoyment and self-improvement, but it's still a very important objective.

[Slaxx]

Buja’s post are like everything but scumhunting I don’t get how this is still alive.

[Slaxx]

I mean not all of them but the ratio of noise to signal is so high.

[TTTT]

I thought I asked you guys to let me know if BuJaber starts scumming it up?

[TTTT]

VOTE: BuJ

[Slaxx]

I thought I asked you guys to let me know if BuJaber starts scumming it up?

That was done at the time of the Milk vote and hasn’t stopped.

I don’t buy theory talk, setup spec, abstract tangentially-related monologues, and a constant reminder of how protown they are playing as town-indicative believe it or not.