Anime U-Pick: King Size [SEASON FINALE...?]


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Post Post #2475 (ISO) » Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:08 pm

Post by Elena Fisher »

In post 2468, Near x Mello wrote:Elena what's your read on Dunn and your read on Pink Ball?

~mello
Town on Dunn. Pink Ball is a hard read for me because I don't think he's scum with FL so at the moment I say town. But that's really the only thing making me not want to touch Pink. His reads are on the flimsy side to me.
In post 2470, Near x Mello wrote:i think its actually fl/robert/rp

what are your thoughts on rp? @elena

~Near
I'd like for people to explain more on why RP is scum. I do have a slight sr on RP but not to the extent that the other people do. I found the mech talk they did scummy and haven't found a good reason to townread them, but from what I'm seeing people are a lot more confident on that read than me. I think if I was to lynch RP it'd be for more info reasons then a 'I'm confident this will flip scum.'
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Post Post #2476 (ISO) » Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:11 pm

Post by Ankamius »

Chito I decided to go through Elena's ISO anyways and I'm already seeing a lot of scummy posting just from the first five posts.

That's either a sign that Elena is not very good at hiding as a wolf or that I'm scumreading playstyle. The fact that it's an alt just muddies it more
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Post Post #2477 (ISO) » Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:12 pm

Post by Ankamius »

In post 291, Elena Fisher wrote:
In post 246, Chito and Yuuri wrote:Chito:

Page 7 Town OR Scum Who Broke the Rules (but would scum do that?)
Spoiler:
Dunnstral
Gamma Emerald
Torque
Near x Mello (HYDRA: Wisdom + Kokichi Oma)
Asking for a friend (HYDRA: Alisae + the worst)
Morality Flavor Leaf
Reasonably Psychotic (HYDRA: Cerberus v666 + Amzela)
Clemency
BulletNLynchproof
Toogeloo
Drixx
Joan of Arc

<--since this player list is massive, this is actually just a list of people I've arbitrarily decided not to think about for right now


People who did not post on page 7:

That I think are town anyway
Almost50
mastina

That make me wonder -- Is Jet Right?
Spike and Jet (HYDRA: Xtoxm + Creature)
Robert2424

That make me wonder -- Apathetic town or scum that didn't get excited about their role PM:
Super Smash Bros. Fan
Elena Fisher

What do you guys think? Which out of SSBF and Elena is busy town and which is scum that doesn't like their role PM?
I feel like you might push me considering what I'm about to say, but oh well. I dislike this post mostly because I don't think you really believe this list. It feels like you throwing a list out just to see what sticks. A lot of this feels like a reach anyway. The only reads that seem okay on this are A50 and Mastina. But from what I can tell they have a lot of townreads anyway.
I especially hate this response now that SSBF is a flipped scum.
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Post Post #2478 (ISO) » Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:17 pm

Post by Elena Fisher »

In post 2476, Ankamius wrote:That's either a sign that Elena is not very good at hiding as a wolf or that I'm scumreading playstyle. The fact that it's an alt just muddies it more
I'm MariaR.
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Post Post #2479 (ISO) » Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:18 pm

Post by Ankamius »

So one of the people I can't ever read

Good to know
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Post Post #2480 (ISO) » Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:21 pm

Post by Elena Fisher »

If it helps, this is my tryhard account that I bring out every once in a few moons. So you can use the meta from this account to help compared to my normal play. Considering I throw a lot of my 'maria' tactics out the window. I feel I'm pretty easy to read on this account. This is bias of course.
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Post Post #2481 (ISO) » Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:23 pm

Post by Ankamius »

I think it would still be more productive to wait to put a read on you until I have a better idea of what scum are doing here
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Post Post #2482 (ISO) » Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:03 pm

Post by Pink Ball »

In post 2475, Elena Fisher wrote:
In post 2468, Near x Mello wrote:Elena what's your read on Dunn and your read on Pink Ball?

~mello
Town on Dunn. Pink Ball is a hard read for me because I don't think he's scum with FL so at the moment I say town. But that's really the only thing making me not want to touch Pink. His reads are on the flimsy side to me.
In post 2470, Near x Mello wrote:i think its actually fl/robert/rp

what are your thoughts on rp? @elena

~Near
I'd like for people to explain more on why RP is scum. I do have a slight sr on RP but not to the extent that the other people do. I found the mech talk they did scummy and haven't found a good reason to townread them, but from what I'm seeing people are a lot more confident on that read than me. I think if I was to lynch RP it'd be for more info reasons then a 'I'm confident this will flip scum.'
So I'm scumreading you, Gamma and Robert, you're scumreading Gamma and Robert too, and my reads are flimsy? :lol:
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Post Post #2483 (ISO) » Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:07 pm

Post by Elena Fisher »

In post 2482, Pink Ball wrote:
In post 2475, Elena Fisher wrote:
In post 2468, Near x Mello wrote:Elena what's your read on Dunn and your read on Pink Ball?

~mello
Town on Dunn. Pink Ball is a hard read for me because I don't think he's scum with FL so at the moment I say town. But that's really the only thing making me not want to touch Pink. His reads are on the flimsy side to me.
In post 2470, Near x Mello wrote:i think its actually fl/robert/rp

what are your thoughts on rp? @elena

~Near
I'd like for people to explain more on why RP is scum. I do have a slight sr on RP but not to the extent that the other people do. I found the mech talk they did scummy and haven't found a good reason to townread them, but from what I'm seeing people are a lot more confident on that read than me. I think if I was to lynch RP it'd be for more info reasons then a 'I'm confident this will flip scum.'
So I'm scumreading you, Gamma and Robert, you're scumreading Gamma and Robert too, and my reads are flimsy? :lol:
You didn't answer my question. I mostly mean your explanation for your reads btw
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Post Post #2484 (ISO) » Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:19 pm

Post by Pink Ball »

What question??
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Post Post #2485 (ISO) » Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:32 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

I townread FL
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Post Post #2486 (ISO) » Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:37 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 2411, Spike and Jet wrote:if drixx died for anything other than the role cc i think it would be the sr on mastina
Drixx wasn't scumreading me.
I realize you can't trust me on that in spite of me saying, "trust me, if he were scumreading me, it would be far more obvious", but you
can
trust Cerb on that and he will tell you exactly the same thing; if Drixx were scumreading me, it would be far, far, FAR more apparent than it is.
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Post Post #2487 (ISO) » Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:46 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 2443, Pink Ball wrote:
In post 2434, Near x Mello wrote:pink who is scum with elena
~Near
Robert and Gamma are both good candidates
I said it to Toogeloo and it is no less true for you.
In post 2015, mastina wrote:
In post 1955, Toogeloo wrote:VOTE: Robert
Elena, Gamma, Robert.
Nope, nothing suspicious about naming consensus scumreads as your three preferred lynches, nothing at all even remotely.
It's not suspicious from you, mind you, but the sentiment's the same.
In post 2446, Pink Ball wrote:I don't think that Morality is scum because he's risking being lynched by taking a stand and pushing who he thinks is scum.
That is literally the worst reason to ever townread someone in the history of bad townreads, ESPECIALLY if you have so much as a single game's experience with Flavor Leaf, Morality, Boonskiies, or any of his accounts.
In post 2446, Pink Ball wrote:Boon is a planner and loves to be the mastermind. That means he won't risk himself 'cause for him, being lynched is equal to losing the game. It doesn't matter if his team wins at the end, he wasn't the one who got it, unless he did a gambit that implied him being lynched. But if he thinks he's the best player of his scumteam, he doesn't risk his own slot so early in the game. And he always thinks he's the best player of his scumteam.
I already deconstructed this point, on two fronts.

One: he had a safety net. He had his neighborhood hard-pocketed. He had a support network, not to mention, a scumteam he would've instructed to not bus him (albeit maybe not supporting him). How many people are in your neighborhood? Four? Five? When you add in the scum, that's like seven players not going to vote for him--nearly half the game right then and there.

Where's the risk when he has nearly half of the game under his control? He could afford to take the risk; he could afford to push hard, because there were zero consequences in doing so.

Two: he didn't have much of a choice. Vedith was lynched D1; that lynch blew the game open for the town, because it townspewed people hardcore and it also created a very effective poe pool--which you can reasonably suspect his scumteam was mostly in or dangerously close to being within.

Three: he REALLY didn't have much of a choice. He presented you with the narrative that HE challenged Wisdom and I, but that's backwards. WISDOM challenged HIM; *I* challenged HIM. He literally couldn't back down; if he backed down, he'd get lynched--the very thing you noted he would want to avoid at all costs.

Four, he himself knows that challenging big players is a way to get townread at the end of the 1v1. I can requote them if you missed these the first time where he laid out his adherence to that philosophy.
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Post Post #2488 (ISO) » Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:56 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 2460, Ankamius wrote:I think this game is going to need a townblock-style approach rather than the CHAINLYNCHWITHFIRE approach
No argument there.

If you iso me, I have a readslist--it's a bit obsolete, but the last one I posted can give you a fair idea of where I stand overall; prod and poke at the places you want me to go on more about and I can.
In post 2455, Near x Mello wrote:i think mastina was maybe right on rp after all
I dont like their absence here
Trust me on this.

Cerb being absent's not alignment indicative.

Or if it indicates alignment at all, it'd be of him being town.

Cerb doesn't neglect his scumgame any more than I would--not intentionally, anyway.

His absence is unfortunate, but not indicative of him being scum.

Give him time and he'll return.
In post 2461, Near x Mello wrote:
In post 2456, Pink Ball wrote:
In post 2449, Near x Mello wrote:except he probably does make risky and crazy plays like this, so no. He does think hes great like you said, and thats exactly why he didnt think hed actually be at risk here.
What I mean is, he could do a crazy play like this, but thinking it was not risky would be stupid even if your ego don't let you see it.
youre saying he thinks hes competent scum
Im telling you that justifies him playing like that even more
Can vouch for this, and again, reiterate since it was lost the first time apparently:
Flavor Leaf is fond of high-risk, high-reward gambits. The risk is always calculated, in that he knows that if he fucks up his team's fucked, but he also runs the odds OF the risk, if that makes sense.
Say the risk is total defeat, but the chance of the risk is only 1%--that's low enough for him that he'd be willing to make the play for the shot at the reward, even if knowing the risk is catastrophic if he fails.

He would know exactly the consequences of the failure, but he'd orchestrate it so that the failure was something almost impossible to happen.
Because he is that competent, and yes, it justifies him making that play even more.
In post 2473, Ankamius wrote:Mastina can you go into how you reached your PoE when you get a chance?
My current POE's a little different than my last posted one, but sure. Can do.
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Post Post #2489 (ISO) » Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:00 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 2476, Ankamius wrote:That's either a sign that Elena is not very good at hiding as a wolf or that I'm scumreading playstyle. The fact that it's an alt just muddies it more
Elena's publicly outed as an alt of MariaR, Ank.

Also of all of her other accounts which I can't recall the names of off the top of my head, but which you'd be familiar with since you know MariaR.

Admittedly she, and others, have said her style on Elena is particularly different from her style on MariaR, but it's the same person underneath and can give you some background info there on how to read similarities/differences in MariaR.
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Post Post #2490 (ISO) » Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:27 pm

Post by mastina »

Torque
Spike and Jet
Asking for a friend/Pink Ball
Chito and Yuuri
Clemency/Ankamius

Joan of Arc
singletonking
Elena Fisher
Dunnstral

Near x Mello
Reasonably Psychotic

Gamma Emerald
Almost50

Robert2424/ooba
Toogeloo
Morality/Flavor Leaf

This is my current readslist, though Gamma/Almost50 keep switching positions.

Torque has been literally THE most gamesolvey player in the entire game so far--the only playerslot even remotely close to them is Chito and Yuuri. Yes, others are scumhunting (e.g. Near x Mello), but Torque is hands-down one of the most consistent in trying to figure the game out. This is a read that is impossible to fake; the process there is incredibly organic and shows incredible original thought...and more than that, incredibly original thoughts that I can very clearly, unambiguously, see the town process behind.

Spike and Jet is a hydra of Creature and Xtoxm. While Creature's not as active as is preferable, they still have one of the highest post counts in the game; that alone should tell you all you need to know. He's a bit inactive, he's a bit apathetic, but he's still gamesolvey when present enough to a degree that it'd be difficult to fake. Xtoxm's presence also feels like it's his town self as I see glimmers of gamesolving from him, too.

Pink Ball, I hard, hard, HARD pushed on D1--but his reaction to this push spewed him hard as town. Vedith's treatment of the engagement (which contributed to why Vedith was outed as scum, mind you) also contributed to hard-spewing Pink Ball as town. There's just no realm in which he plays this way as scum, and there's no realm in which Vedith's treatment of him was that of a scumbuddy.

Chito and Yuuri are, as mentioned, second only to Torque in gamesolveyness. They have been incredibly obvtown and incredibly present, giving consistently high-quality content which shows strong original thought. Especially as a hydra, their level of content would be almost impossible to fake, especially given that the two players in question are relative unknowns. I've never heard of them in passing as being tremendously competent scum players, and for them to be scum here would require god-tiered scumplay worthy of Don Corelone nominations given just how
good
they are playing--so I don't think they are scum.

I suppose I could spew why Ankamius is town for others, but I'm mostly typing this out for her benefit so unless she wants me to describe why she's town to give her a better grasp on me or something, I'll skip this one for now.

Joan of Arc is NicoRobin is Yume is Steven Universe is Jeanne is halfadozenotheraltsatleast. This is self-evidently, quite obviously, her towngame, and her stances this game are well outside of her scum range and match perfectly with her towngame.

singletonking was spewed town by the SSBF/Vedith slot, as well as being fairly town otherwise.

Elena Fisher I already went into my townread there before; it's in my iso already if you want to look for it.

Dunnstral, this is Dunnstral's towngame--more than that, while Dunnstral has been low-key in contributing content, he has given some sharp insights that seem like scum wouldn't really think to give, sharp insights I also thought had a significant chance of being meaningful, even accurate.

Near x Mello, I've also already explained why I'm not scumreading them, but why they turned into a townread of sorts, I admit that's still limited to my neighborhood, until now. The more and more they post, the more and more I am seeing what I'd expect from a town fusion of Wisdom and Kokichi Oma. What they are doing, how they are doing it, where their focus is, how they are putting things, everything is in line with them as town.

The change on Reasonably Psychotic is similarly jarring to those not in our neighborhood. I have a feeling (call it gut if you must) that there isn't any manipulation, isn't any scum machinations, originating from their slot. More than that, in what Cerb's doing--I'm finally seeing some of the signs I look for from him when he's town, albeit not as blatant as I'd prefer.

That brings me to my POE pool.

Gamma Emerald was originally outside of my POE pool--I went into this read already, but basically, I thought she was weakly spewed as town from SSBF/Vedith. However, the points raised against her D2 weakened my read there, and I looked at her stances and realized it was at least
plausible
she was scum. I wouldn't call her
probable
scum, but the possibility is strong enough that she's in the poe pool. I still don't think she's scum, but she's a backup scum candidate, who could be scum if one of my scumreads is wrong.

Almost50, I explained why I put him into my poe pool in the neighborhood. Basically, it's a weak meta read. He was originally cleared of the poe pool--in fact, I thought his vote on SSBF spewed him as being town. But then, today, I realized something when driving home from work: literally every single time I've thought of Almost50 in a specific way, he has actually been scum that game, and I was thinking of him in that way this game.

Almost50's play this game essentially lacks "oomph". He's posting, sure, but there isn't a real strength behind his pushes; there isn't a real fire to be seen. Every time I've seen this, I've thought, "Oh I've seen Almost50 be a little apathetic as town, he looks town for these (superficial) reasons so this must be one of those off-games of his".

And yet, every time I can think of? When I had that thought, he was actually scum. The superficial reasons were superficial, skin-deep, not actually valid, and the lack of oomph wasn't from apathy, or at least not apathy born of problems beyond the keyboard; the lack of oomph was directly correlated to his alignment. And this game, Almost50 is lacking oomph, and the only reason I can really think of for having him as a townread, I'm thinking about and thinking...isn't it kinda superficial?

Ank, I could actually get REALLY good feedback from you, here.
My references for Almost50 as scum are these three games.

His towngames look more like this, this, this, and also this, plus some of this.

You've been in at least a couple of those, so you can compare them to here.

It's not like it's a definitive difference, not a night/day lock-solid foolproof metric.
But.

There IS that trend. Where as town there's just a kind of...oomph to it--one which you can still ignore but it's difficult and annoying. One which has presence enough to demand active effort to not pay attention to it.
Whereas here, I can effortlessly ignore him--I don't need to roll my eyes at him, I can just cruise by without really trying to. Something which tends to not happen when he is actually town, if that makes sense.

Robert/ooba, it's mostly that Robert's play was underwhelming. My reference for his towngame is his play here, and what he did here was just...so, so much less than what he did there. ooba's entrance into the game also felt like it was a scum entrance--all of these are weak reasons, but they do suggest a lurking/apathetic scum that got replaced.

Toogeloo and Flavor Leaf, you can just iso me for those because I've gone into them extensively, to say the least.
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Post Post #2491 (ISO) » Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:19 pm

Post by Joan of Arc »

In post 2361, Dunnstral wrote:
In post 2359, Joan of Arc wrote:And since I've killed twice as much scum as you during the course of a single game, as town vig, then by your logic, that makes me twice as good of a player than you.
nobody cares
Well, evidently, Wisdom does, cause he is using it to back-up why he should me listened too. So why should he be allowed to use that as one of his arguments and I should not be?
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Post Post #2492 (ISO) » Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:20 pm

Post by Joan of Arc »

Congratulations, you just awoke angry me with your behavior.
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Post Post #2493 (ISO) » Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:35 pm

Post by Joan of Arc »

I am genuinely trying to improve, but you're making it difficult. Quit it.
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Post Post #2494 (ISO) » Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:35 pm

Post by Ankamius »

I don't have a while lot of time currently so I won't comment on most of it, but if your PoE is accurate, I believe you have the exact team nailed since I'm currently townreading both Almost50 and Gamma Emerald.

The Gamma read is pretty simply this: she reacts in a specific way as scum when she feels threatened from my recent experience (I was one of her biggest critics in both of the last games I've seen her scum in) and has reacted pretty similarly as town when she started getting pretty close to a lynch back when I was scum against her in an open a good while back. My overall read of her is that she will lash out when she feels threatened regardless of her alignment, and yet I've noticed that there is significantly less of it now that there's a decent push against her than there was from my skim of her ISO D1. I'd think that scum-her would be feeling very threatened throughout day 2 once she started catching all this suspicion, yet she has been fairly calm and imo most of the points people have against her are just people scumreading her for whatever she does that gets her scumread every game. I don't see it at all.

Almost50, I will 100% be able to catch if I see enough from him. He is a lot harder to read when he's town, but I've had no issues spotting scum-him every time I've seen it. The way the approaches the game is night and day, and currently the 5 or so posts I've seen aren't it so far.
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Post Post #2495 (ISO) » Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:39 pm

Post by Ankamius »

Like Almost50 was blatantly scum in police academy because his entire approach was there to look like he was doing something rather than actually doing something. Same thing with Gorkington, both of them had really weird responses to various things in the game and were putting too much thought into pretty useless stuff.

Push strength I can't really comment on, I haven't seen enough recent town play to have an idea where his overall confidence level as town is nowadays. He seemed plenty confident enough in his townreads in that last scumgame I mentioned :P
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Post Post #2496 (ISO) » Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:51 pm

Post by Ankamius »

I read through the ISO of a50 in variety hour and it looks like classic scum-A50 to me.

His joking nature and content in the game usually mesh together and just from picking a random point and reading like 10 posts, he had almost exclusively serious content with a single joke post in between.

Plus he was pushing weird role stuff that didn't really matter, so that doesn't help either.
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Post Post #2497 (ISO) » Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:11 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

<v>ooba</v>
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Post Post #2498 (ISO) » Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:12 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

VOTE: ooba
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Post Post #2499 (ISO) » Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:36 pm

Post by Ankamius »

I feel like the game is less solved than everybody thinks it is.

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