Anime U-Pick: King Size [SEASON FINALE...?]

[Near x Mello]

ofc SN attributes it to mastina, but ofc he would

if you read you find out it was Dunn who pushed him to that

[Near x Mello]

Though even if it was mastina who made him mad, its entirely possible what made him mad was the bussing

and maybe thats why he was modkilled even. I could see him taking issue with the bussing and taking it to pms

[Torque]

Or maybe you prefer posts like these:

I was one of the strongest contributors to getting Vedith lynched D1.

Let's look at the contribution:

Super Smash Bros. Fan/Vedith
Near x Mello
Asking for a friend/Pink Ball
Toogeloo
Reasonably Psychotic

Btw, for some clarity on my feelings there.

Yeah I know my reads aren't great.

But I still feel there's a minimum of one scum in here--and actually feel it's at least two. It could be as high as three.

I'd be flabbergasted if I got four (I'm never that good), but this would be an

incredibly

off game if there wasn't at least one in there.

Reasonably Psychotic and Toogeloo are the strongest two, so my best bet, though honestly Near x Mello might be my third-strongest there.

Vedith is, by far, the weakest, in that while I didn't think SSBF's content was good, I lack the meta familiarity to give context for his play, and Vedith here is harder to read but vaguely gives off some :goodvibes: overall. He's a compromise read more than anything else.

Chito: Mastina-chan you should join us on Vedith-kun

mastina, since you're scumreading Vedith and Pink Ball, why aren't you voting either?

You apparently didn't read right if you thought I was scumreading Vedith.

Vedith is, by far, the weakest, in that while I didn't think SSBF's content was good, I lack the meta familiarity to give context for his play, and Vedith here is harder to read but vaguely gives off some :goodvibes: overall. He's a compromise read more than anything else.

Chito: Mastina, would you like to join our team and put your vote on Vedith?

Honestly my hopes aren't high that he'd be scum. Quite the opposite I kinda think he's town. I'll vote there to get a lynch, especially since we don't

need

to use every day on our deadline (it's a week away), but I just kinda feel like.
And my only reason to really vote Vedith is to get that lynch now, to end the day earlier rather than later.

So it's not that I won't join you, it's that I just would prefer not to.

(Still don't think Vedith's flipping scum, by the way. Just, think he's the lynch candidate who gave us the best chances of flipping scum.)

i.e. three posts that actively stall and try to get people to lynch people not Vedith.

And only AFTER Vedith scumclaims and dooms himself because the mod himself could confirm Vedith was lying there, mastina comes and posts this

His claim is from a 2007 show and i could be wrong but the sequel isnt after 2010 either

Also, if you recall:
Subject: Anime U-Pick: King Size [FULL! PM TO REPLACEMENT/SPECTATE]

Question.

Note that any anime that is a sequel to those that aired before 2010 is not allowed (sorry Sailor Moon Crystal and UQ Holder fans).

Can I loophole abuse this with a prequel?

Subject: Anime U-Pick: King Size [FULL! PM TO REPLACEMENT/SPECTATE]

Also question.
Is an anime that's a different adaption of the same source material eligible? That being, an older anime is for the material, but there's a new anime for the same source material which isn't picking up where the old one left off and is starting from scratch?

Subject: Anime U-Pick: King Size [FULL! PM TO REPLACEMENT/SPECTATE]

Question.

Note that any anime that is a sequel to those that aired before 2010 is not allowed (sorry Sailor Moon Crystal and UQ Holder fans).

Can I loophole abuse this with a prequel?

Prequel and sequel is merely the same thing.

Also question.
Is an anime that's a different adaption of the same source material eligible? That being, an older anime is for the material, but there's a new anime for the same source material which isn't picking up where the old one left off and is starting from scratch?

As long as myanimelist.net doesn't identify that as a sequel/prequel/whatever, then fine, you can use it.

This seems relevant.

and is now acting as if this^ somehow contributed to the Vedith lynch. Newsflash, Vedith made a claim that, once again, would be confirmed false BY THE MOD. Not to mention singleton and others having already picked up on this. Not to mention Drixx fucking counterclaimed doctor. All of these prior to this post.

And yet Mastina is acting as if she somehow gets credit for the Vedith lynch. What is this if not scum manipulation?

Mastina, js

At least that last part, Wisdom's totally right. Even before you jumped in with links that say Clannad was a 2007 show, singleton already pointed that out. You don't really get to say you contributed to major points of Vedith's lynch or whatever. I thought about the same thing when you said it in the channel but didn't want to tell you.

[Torque]

Eh. that A50 read seems super awkward, probably w/w

whats awkward about it? He just called him crazy. Have you never seen scum calling town crazy or similar?
also that read is after the read on vedith, an actual s/s read. So, less chance its also a s/s read.

That was like Robert wanted to post some reads but on Vedith, A50 and Toogeloo but he ends up pussy footing with "crazy" and similar stuff
I have seen scum calling town something similar, that's what he did to Toog

Near, A50 is in channel 5 too, right?

[mastina]

Almost50, I explained why I put him into my poe pool in the neighborhood. Basically, it's a weak meta read. He was originally cleared of the poe pool--in fact, I thought his vote on SSBF spewed him as being town. But then, today, I realized something when driving home from work: literally every single time I've thought of Almost50 in a specific way, he has actually been scum that game, and I was thinking of him in that way this game.

Almost50's play this game essentially lacks "oomph". He's posting, sure, but there isn't a real strength behind his pushes; there isn't a real fire to be seen. Every time I've seen this, I've thought, "Oh I've seen Almost50 be a little apathetic as town, he looks town for these (superficial) reasons so this must be one of those off-games of his".

And yet, every time I can think of? When I had that thought, he was actually scum. The superficial reasons were superficial, skin-deep, not actually valid, and the lack of oomph wasn't from apathy, or at least not apathy born of problems beyond the keyboard; the lack of oomph was directly correlated to his alignment. And this game, Almost50 is lacking oomph, and the only reason I can really think of for having him as a townread, I'm thinking about and thinking...isn't it kinda superficial?

Ank, I could actually get REALLY good feedback from you, here.
My references for Almost50 as scum are these three games.

His towngames look more like this, this, this, and also this, plus some of this.

You've been in at least a couple of those, so you can compare them to here.

It's not like it's a definitive difference, not a night/day lock-solid foolproof metric.
But.

There IS that trend. Where as town there's just a kind of...oomph to it--one which you can still ignore but it's difficult and annoying. One which has presence enough to demand active effort to not pay attention to it.
Whereas here, I can effortlessly ignore him--I don't need to roll my eyes at him, I can just cruise by without really trying to. Something which tends to not happen when he is actually town, if that makes sense.

Robert/ooba, it's mostly that Robert's play was underwhelming. My reference for his towngame is his play here, and what he did here was just...so, so much less than what he did there. ooba's entrance into the game also felt like it was a scum entrance--all of these are weak reasons, but they do suggest a lurking/apathetic scum that got replaced.

This was the start of the Almost50 case--keep in mind that Ankamius, in private inside her neighborhood, apparently agreed with my conclusion here.

Is the shepherding being done behind the scenes?

It takes a scum player of VERY high caliber to pull that off--who in this list can do that besides myself, maybe-Almost50, Morality/Flavor Leaf, or Reasonably Psychotic. And in the case of Reasonably Psychotic, I already laid out why I don't feel this is Cerb's scum manipulation; there isn't so much as a single trace of it as far as I can see.

Almost50 actually fits as a scum shepherd, and I am going to cite what I did in my neighborhood on the subject:
Assume the scumteam has one individual who is the primary thinker/planner.
Assume it is not Near/Mello.
Assume it is not Reasonably Psychotic.

Aside from me, who fits the description best of being a scum thinker/planner? There's a few who are definitive nos; Joan, Vedith, Pink Ball, Dunnstral. Hypothetically they could be scum and could contribute, but would not be SPEARHEADING discussion of strategy.
There's a few who are capable of it when there's literally nobody else, but are all too happy to take a back seat. Gamma and Elena are who I'd profile as such.
There's a few who I don't know well enough to make a determination one way or another, but I'd guess at not being in the role; that's Chito/Yuuri, Torque, and Robert.

But the list of people who could be scum planners 100% of the time.
Is a small one.

It's {me, Near/Mello, Reasonably Psychotic, Almost50}. (Morality and Severa both counted, but are dead, so.)

If we assume that scum have a planner, then you need to get into each one of the scum planners' mindsets.

Here is where I diverge from my original analysis, because I want to point out:

Votecount 1.16

Vedith(10)

~ Chito and Yuuri(85), mastina(78), Joan of Arc(32), Drixx(22), Gamma Emerald(82), Torque(82), Spike and Jet(127), Near x Mello(97), Almost50(58)

, Vedith(75)

-- HAMMER

Gamma Emerald(3)

~ Elena Fisher(22), Pink Ball(163), Clemency(57)

Pink Ball(2)

~ Robert2424(17), Morality(29)

Joan of Arc(1)

~ Dunnstral(31)

Drixx(1)

~ singletonking(62)

mastina(1)

~ Toogeloo(29)
Not Voting (1): Reasonably Psychotic(55)

Almost50's planning strategy is similar to Morality's: screw the risk, get those counterwagons up. (And, mind you--I wrote this as a case for Morality being scum, so.)

Almost50, himself, was on the wagon, but...
Votecount 1.11

Vedith

(5) ~ Near x Mello(73), Chito and Yuuri(70), Torque(60),

Clemency(43), Spike and Jet(115)

Pink Ball(5) ~ Gamma Emerald(66), Joan of Arc(29),

Robert2424

(15),

Almost50

(44),

Vedith

(41)
mastina(2) ~

Toogeloo

(21), Pink Ball(124)
Gamma Emerald(2) ~ Elena Fisher(20), Dunnstral(25)

singletonking(1) ~ Morality(18)

Reasonably Psychotic(1) ~ mastina(51)

Clemency(1) ~ Drixx(11)

Not Voting (2):

singletonking

(23), Reasonably Psychotic(36)

Votecount 1.15

Vedith

(5) ~ Near x Mello(91), Chito and Yuuri(79),

Clemency

(52), mastina(73), Joan of Arc(32)
Pink Ball(3) ~

Robert2424

(17),

Gamma Emerald

(78),

Morality

(29)
mastina(3) ~

Toogeloo

(25), Almost50(53),

Spike and Jet

(124)
Gamma Emerald(2) ~ Elena Fisher(22), Pink Ball(157)

Drixx(2) ~ singletonking

(48), Torque(67)
Joan of Arc(1) ~ Dunnstral(29)

Clemency(1) ~ Drixx(19)

Not Voting (2):

Vedith

(49), Reasonably Psychotic(47)

As I originally said in my analysis--Almost50's approach as a scum spearhead is almost identical to that of Morality; fuck VCA over by having a scumbloc vote together, because the town won't be expecting it and it will throw them off.

In the former especially, there is that rather suspect pattern where Almost50 is surrounded on both sides of the wagon by scum. And that same wagon, Gamma Emerald would then later join not long after.

I'm seeing Gamma and pink ball wagons be essentially stagnant at where they are from even before vedith-slot became a decently sized wagon.

If the solve of Flavor Leaf-ooba-Toogeloo is correct, then the Pink Ball counterwagon to Vedith had

three

scum on it--not shown in any single votecount, but when you look at it, Robert was on that wagon; Morality was on that wagon; Vedith was on that wagon. The only person in the solve not on that wagon was Toogeloo.

That seems like it counts as trying-yet-failing, because failure was inevitable.

Plus what stops scum from pushing the pink ball or Gamma wagons?

What makes you think they didn't?

Both proven and suspected scum voted in those wagons.

The Vedith wagon had too much going for it to fall apart; the counterwagons were all self-evidently flawed and weak, off of superficial reasoning with the sole exception of the Pink Ball wagon--which DID rival Vedith's...until Pink Ball obvtowned himself.

Pink Ball was the closest to a viable counterwagon, which is shown to have contained scum, but he made that lynch not be viable with how he obvtowned himself. Vedith meanwhile became more and more an appealing lynch because he made misplay after misplay--none of those misplays looked intentional, so much as accidental, genuine, fuckups on his part that screwed him over.

Again, I wrote this about Morality...but it's actually more applicable for Almost50.

Almost50 was on most of the counterwagons to Vedith--Pink Ball and me most notably.

Almost50's Not Voting status I found incredibly suspect, in tandem with him having been in my POE pool.

I'm referring to Almost50's status at the end of D2. I'll be getting more into this in a bit, but keep it in mind.

Ankamius says that Almost is more likely to flip scum than not, and that his flip would be useful either way.

Ankamius has a strong track record for nailing Almost50 as scum.

I had him as a peripheral scumread; Severa had him as a scumread; Ankamius had him as a scumread; that's good enough for me.

And to give that reference--

a50 is

Town: {Ankamius, Gamma Emerald, singletonking, Chito and Yuuri, Joan of Arc, Severa, Torque, mastina}
Dunnstral
Spike and Jet
Toogeloo
Elena Fisher
Reasonably Psychotic
Almost50
ooba
Pink Ball
Near x Mello

first guess at actual scumteam is
{vedith, spike and jet, reasonably psychotic,

almost50

, toogeloo}

So reading Almost50's iso.

Hell yes he's scum, and has sketchy Gamma associatives as well. (Not going into the sketchy Robert associatives and sketchy Vedith interaction.)

A real highlight for me though is this,

@Drixx: I know why you may not think I'm playing to my town meta, but I can't explain it right now. Maybe on D3 or D4 if we're both still alive.

Given who died N1 and all.

I'll be going into these more, as well. Keep paying attention.

This post implies that certain hoods do not contain scums and certain ones do but how would you know that unless you had info on what hoods are available in the game? It’s doubtful that a Townie would be able to do anything but assume let alone speculate on an all scum hood.

What makes you think scum have info about all hoods available in the game
ie
How is bnl's thing more likely coming from scum than town?

I never said that scums had info on the hoods available in the game.

Looking back at BNL's post, it's suspicious that the post he made implies that not all hoods contain scum. It would be one thing if he brought up multiple possibilities like Drixx did when discussing possible house set-ups but he doesn't do that.

We have no idea if all the hoods in the game has a scum or not. Some of us are in one hood, some are in multiples like Morality (who elected to post in one channel and not in the other) but as far as alignments are concerned, there are no confirmations. Given this, it's a big leap to say that one or more of the hoods are all-town unless BNL had prior information knowing where the scums are, which only scum would know.

Kinda sorta feel like this from SSBF was a scumslip he tried to cover up RE: Almost50...who, as scum, has exactly that, access to every channel.

By that, I mean, he tried to project BNL/singleton's claim to an actual real scum role in the hands of another player (Almost50), essentially, and when called out on it by Near x Mello, tried to cover it up.

Take a look at him.
Take a damn good look at him.
Read my points on him.
Realize he ABSOLUTELY kills Drixx here N1; he ABSOLUTELY kills Ankamius (one of the best players in the game at reading him) N2; realize Drixx held suspicions MIRRORING YOUR OWN that Almost50's role was a scum role; realize Ankamius (again, one of the best players in the game at reading him) scumread him; realize that Severa (who, while an imperfect scumhunter, is still a

good

scumhunter) was scumreading him.

Chito: A50 did claim a post restriction and that the post restriction would not cause him to be prodded in the main thread. A post restriction does not make him town with certainty but I do believe the post restriction is likely real.

Repeat after me.

Role != alignment.

His role is real; there's never been any question to that.

The alignment's the important part; I'm pretty sure it's a scum role.

1469 is wrong in ways that are unlikely to come from scum, 73 is a level of early game solving that rarely comes from scum a50 and 1510 works against the way that a50 is more pockety as scum and less combative.

1469 is wrong in exactly the ways I've seen Almost50 be wrong as scum; 73 isn't really game solving; 1510 is responding to me literally the only way which he can; attempting to pocket me would only ensure his lynch and combating me is literally the only way he knows to fight me off.

Considering that AP is A50's "jokey" account, I would say A50's play in this game has a comparable amount of jokiness and random setup speccy stuff compared to Ballroom Blitz, which is a more recent game: viewtopic.php?t=78486&f=23&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

That's the problem.

AP

is his

joke

account.

Almost50

is his

serious

account.

The level of

jokiness

/setup spec stuff in this game is comparable to his

joke

account...
...But he is playing on his

serious

account.

You see the issue with that, yes?

Almost50 is scum on every account--by POE, by Ankamius scumreading him, by Severa scumreading him, by his interactions with flipped scum, sketchy posting throughout the game, by role speculation, and by the nightkills, among other factors.

Chito: I guess I can see where you're coming from a bit better after writing 3456, I can see how at a glance this looks a lot like scum A50. Some of the things I thought he didn't tend to do as scum he actually sometimes does, but I'm still having a hard time seeing him as scum here anyway.

Well then look at all the other factors.

There are four scum in the game--even if Gamma's one of them (which yes I agree with you I think she likely is), she has a partner; who is it?

You agree with the POE of Torque/Pink Ball/Dunnstral/Reasonably Psychotic/Joan as being town...
...Which leaves you a grand total of four names for two scum slots.
If Gamma's scum.
That's still one scum in Elena/NearxMello/Almost50.

POE is HARSH against him.

Even if you ignore the POE pool.

Drixx had setup reasons for suspecting Almost50; do you think that in a ROLE MADNESS game, Drixx was killed exclusively for counterclaiming the scum role? (When there are, in fact, multiple town players--myself included--who have a role acting as a CC to Vedith's, and there are many town roles which CC one another.) We know at this point he wasn't killed to silence his voice in his neighborhood; that theory went debunk when Severa flipped town. Drixx had his eyes on Almost50, for good reason.

Ankamius is one of the best players on mafiascum--dead serious. Well, as town, at least. She's literally one of the worst threats to go up against--while that does mean literally everyone would kill her, it also means she has reason to be respected on her reads...ESPECIALLY her Almost50 read. She is one of the best players at reading Almost50. I rate her ability to read him as better than mine, and according to Joan, she had a rather notable scumread on him.

Severa may have been wrong on Spike/Jet, but RC is also a strong town player; he has a damn good process. He had Almost50 as one of his suspects. While he was vigged, I wouldn't discount the possibility of a scum vig right now, which brings up the question of who as scum would want him dead like that; the answer is, those who were afraid he'd catch them. And Almost50 is in that pool.

There's so much for him being scum, and the most there is for him being town is "he can do this stuff as town; he doesn't have to do this stuff as scum", pretty much. He just makes the most sense as one of the remaining two.

Ank may be good but she was in the thread for like 5 days and was not privy to today's flips, including Toogeloo who might have adjusted her PoE.

Her scumread on Almost50 existed separately from her scumreads elsewhere.

Thus, the flips may have adjusted her other reads, but wouldn't have adjusted her Almost50 read.

Also, no town player is going to have perfect reads, but that doesn't mean you ignore their reads because of the ones which were wrong.

Severa also literally said he just did not read Elena, so it's not like Severa was arguing A50 was scummier than Elena (at least not in this thread, lmk if he posted some night time reads list before he died).

Him ignoring Elena doesn't mean he ignored Almost50; him ignoring Elena doesn't affect how he scumread Almost50.

How does night kill analysis point to Almost being scum in your opinion?

Because Drixx died; Ankamius died. Both had other reasons to die and Almost50 isn't going to kill someone JUST because they scumread him...but they both scumread him.

And Drixx is not such a player.
Drixx, when using logic based around mechanics, is on par with Ellibereth in being convincing--
But only when utilizing that logic based around mechanics.
When based on logic around gameplay, Drixx has charisma arguably worse than Creature.

Drixx had no mechanical reasons to read me, but DID have mechanical reasons to scumread Almost50.
Drixx's scumread on me from play was thus worth jacksquat. It meant absolutely nothing, because Drixx scumreading someone off of play is as harmless as harmless comes.

Yes, his mechanical play is on par with Cerb's, which is why their hydra is devastating in the long-term. Him being a mechanics-based player? He was a fucking non-threat.

When based on logic around gameplay, Drixx has charisma arguably worse than Creature.

And not only does he lack that charisma, but his play-based reads are also town par--they're nothing above average.

And average town is still shitty. Average town is "maybe catches one scum if they're lucky, and if they're really lucky, two", pretty much--and when using gameplay-based reasoning rather than mechanics-based reasoning, that is the level of play I ascribe to Drixx.

So I don't consider him a threat. Him being suspicious of me from gameplay reasons was barely worth a footnote. It certainly wasn't worth a nightkill.

Now, him being suspicious of someone from a role reason, from a mechanical viewpoint of the game...
...THAT is an entirely different thing altogether. THAT is a threat. THAT is where he specializes in fucking scum over. And he was on the right track...if you assume that Almost50 is scum.

Here are the points of interest regarding A50, which he wants you to forget about:

I'll bite, why am I scum A50?

I don't like your voting patterns. Let me give you an example: You think BOTH FL & ooba are scum?

I want to know why you thought I was scumreading FL

I dunno. Probably mistook a post from someone else as being made by you. I went back to ISO you and I don't see why I had that down as a remark next to your name.

I pointed out that I had mentioned something about Morality in my pt, and he ate it up. He then goes on to ask me who scum is in my hood (nonsense, the burden is on him, and the pressure should be on him)
Notably, if scum don't have daytalk then just being scum wouldn't be enough to gather this information, so that point by him is moot anyway. I theorize that he can't see into my neighborhood during the day, but may or may not be able to get info on it during the night, and if he can't then he was just making stuff up

It's time to resolve this. What information does my first post on day 3 inside my neighborhood convey?

Naw, it makes sense. Note this is WITHOUT me bothering to reread anything, or ISO A50.

The strongest argument in favor of him being town was the warning he gave everyone(to share what I was thinking there, he only does that as scum in two situations: If his teammates include Drixx, myself, Wisdom, Alisae, or mastina(just don't see that coming from anyone else in this game who's scum game I'm familiar with), or if a/his scum role includes an ability to spy on/be part of all the PT's). I found it unlikely that his team included the people I thought capable of guiding him towards taking that line, but as the game has gone on I've grown more certain that the scum team has that ability to spy on pt's, so he's really left with nothing in terms of reasons to townread him.

Honestly, pure speculation of course, but I think it's super likely that his absence from the thread right now is part of an ability that let's him look at all the other PT's during this time when he's gone from the main thread.

That's a lot of statements to make.

But let's back them up.

Looking at the players list I don't seem to recall anything Super Smash Bros. Fan or Maria have posted. Checking the activity it's no wonder as each has only posted once (and Maria even did it under an alt).

Could the two of you please step into the center of the stage and perform a first dance?

This is his first interaction with the Vedith slot.

@Gamma: How am I supposed to answer this now? You know my alts, right? Would you be kind enough to figure out the rest?

Nothing to do with alts, everything to do with you hemorrhaging scum-exclusive info previously.

I understand your paranoia, but it's overly naive of you to do so here for several reasons:
1- That was a slip about an in-game mechanic there. Here it was confusion about what game it is and who the mod is.
2- Do you really think I would be so careless as to slip AGAIN here? Like, there it was bc I was a replacement and I jumped the gun. Here I am a starter and have had plenty of time to read, reread and prepare well if I wanted to have anything "planned".
3- When that happened I tried my best to get out of the hole I had dug myself into without explaining much. Here I gave you as much info as I could. Try AP. Period.
Happy?

This is an incredibly awkward interaction with Gamma Emerald.

My inactivity in this thread until now was due to life being busy, not deliberately avoiding the thread.

(Vote: this dude)
This phrasing is most irritating to me. "my inactivity

in this thread

" hints he has been posting "elsewhere", and if that's the case then "busy life" certainly is not the reason.
Please reread his phrasing and compare it to "My inactivity

in this thread

until now" which probably wouldn't have rubbed me the wrong way.
@Super Smash: Please tell us how many posts you has on any channels you're in, and that's for starters.
Oh, and for the VC tool to recognize the vote:
VOTE: Super Smash Bros. Fan

Even for Almost50, this is an "out-there" reasoning for a vote, which reeks of being a bus vote based on TMI.

@Vedith: Why PB?

Continued awkward interactions with the Vedith slot. Up to and including:

@Vedith: Why PB?

Because I'm top voted and I got worried and panicked. You should vote with me.

I love your honesty. here's a reward:
UNVOTE:

Unvoting the slot, and not pressing elsewhere.

Almost50 drops an unvote, and critically--he avoids voting again. He doesn't latch onto something else; he just drops his push, dead, because he "liked his honesty".

I love your honesty. here's a reward:
UNVOTE:

That was a little easy. What if I was lying?

If you had said anything else I would have suspected you were lying. This is the one and only reason I thought might make sense for that vote.

The awkward interaction continues.

Vedith

(5) ~ Near x Mello, Chito and Yuuri, Torque, Clemency, Spike and Jet, <<< all town wagon.. on a

townie

[

X

]

Almost50(1) ~

Vedith

, <<<

town

on town

[

X

]

Not Voting (3): Reasonably Psychotic, Almost50, singletonking, <<< 3 lazy townies (yes, I know I'm one of the 3)

Key notes here.

My theory is Vedith is an easy push, so scum are counting on town to do the job for them.

Hey, Wisdom.
Why the fuck did you call me out on this sort of shit, but not Almost50?

cmon, thats weak. "easy" wagons happen on scum all the time. I agree with your gamma and pink reads.

Separately, it does seem to be weak indeed. However, there are some other (even weaker) indications that -collectively- add up to a "not-so-strong yet not-too-weak" reasoning.
For example, my PoE and my SRs support that conclusion. Of course I cannot be confident without having any flips at all, but IF I am correct about X, Y & Z being the scum team then that's that.
As for Vedith himself, I don't think Scum!him (who had just voted someone and declared it was a survivalistic vote on his counter wagon), would respond to me unvoting him by FoS'ing me. (After all, he knows I'm bad.. I'm bad, he knows it.. ) and he thus was risking me not only revoting him but actually pushing him for real.

@Dunn: I'm not saying he flips red.

In fact I still lean towards a green flip.

HOWEVER, this will never go away. It's better to deal with it NOW than to let scum use it as a smoke screen to keep us chasing our tails all game.

Because Almost50 was doing the very fucking thing

you

were accusing me of doing.

Stalling the Vedith lynch.

@A50: If Vedith is a villager and is an easy push as you say, scum has all the incentive to hop on his wagon yet the wagon came to a halt
Either there is scum already voting there or Vedith is a wolf

No. If they thought town would do the job for them they would stay clear off the wagon and play for time. Maybe they thought it "could" go through without them and now are considering throwing their weight behind it towards the end of the day, but for now are hoping that the town still does the job for them.

Also let's not forget the other 2 wagons are on stronger TRs, and scum wouldn't e stupid enough to try and save one of them by pushing someone unlikely to get lynched on D1. The wagons are thus composed so that any townie looking to consolidate at crunch time would look at the 3 and think Vedith is the right way to go given there are no other options by then.

More Vedith defense.

I support Toog's notion. Let's force scum to hop on counter wagons sooner than later so it will become apparent who's aligned with whom
VOTE: mastina

I was a Vedith counterwagon.

@Drixx: I know why you may not think I'm playing to my town meta, but I can't explain it right now. Maybe on D3 or D4 if we're both still alive.

Almost50 acknowledged that Drixx posed a threat here--Drixx's point on Almost50 was this:

A50 is either having a laugh as an informed/scum role or has somehow managed to be over the top nonchalant as town since the last time I played with him as town.

And this is the crucial bit. Drixx and Cerb both saw the same thing.
Drixx.
And Cerb.
The mechanics-based players.
Both saw the same thing.
When looking at Almost50.
They saw.
A mechanical reason to scumread Almost50.

Drixx. The CO-KING OF MECHANICAL SCUMHUNTING.
AGREEING WITH CERBERUS, THE OTHER CO-KING OF MECHANICAL SCUMHUNTING.
HAD A

MECHANICAL

REASON.
To scumread Almost50.

Almost50 brushed it off.

VOTE: Vedith
All caught up. Not even sure how I feel about this, but letting him off the hook will always come back to haunt us later on regardless of his true alignment.

L-1

This is also a blatant scum bus.

I'd also like to note from D1:

This leaves me with S&J, SSB, Gamma, Joan, Toog (I suspect he may have a 1-shot global protective ability?? ), Drixx, Maria (my nemesis), mastina, Robert & NxM to sort

preliminarily

.

He sorted Spike and Jet.
He sorted Vedith.
He sorted Toogeloo.
He sorted Drixx.
He sorted me.
He sorted Near x Mello.
He sorted Toogeloo.

But Gamma/Joan/Elena/Robert have ambiguous sorts, at best. The closest to a Robert sort?

I feel

left

out.

Actually, you can't be more

right

.

That's literally the extent of his Robert interactions.

Gamma's no better in that regard.

@Gamma: So you've arguing against mastina being worthy of a sheep, and you say Joan of Arc's response isn't a town response, yet you joined the same wagon they're both pushing?? What gives?

Another awkward Gamma interaction.

@Mortality: You're clever, you're funny and -in this game- you're TOWN.

Starts with this...

@Near: Not yet. I am waiting for a few people to come say something useful today before I vote. But, it's likely that I will vote her "eventually" if that's what you're asking.

Refuses to vote...

OH! A MASTINA TRAIN! I LOVE IT!!
VOTE: mastina

...Votes me...

Near/Elena/Torque scum team

Well, I'm on Elena and I thought you were too. Let's lynch this first then we see who else. I don't think both Near & Torque bused Vedith, so I believe at least one of then is Town here.

...Is even sheeping Flavor Leaf...

No. I know his play and I kinda know when he's being manipulative-as-scum vs manipulative-as-town. FL is dropping his guard here, which is something he never does as scum. He is making himself overly vulnerable, and he

could indeed

get lynched TODAY, yet he's not backing off. It's because he

believes

he's right about you being scum (which is one major reason I'm calling his reads shit).

...And defending him...

We have no idea if all the hoods in the game has a scum or not. Some of us are in one hood, some are in multiples like Morality (who elected to post in one channel and not in the other)

This is interesting
Did Morality end up posting in any other channel?

*Sigh*
I can't argue with THAT.
VOTE: Flavor Leaf

...But when a Flavor Leaf lynch seemed viable, he jumped on, not questioning the nature of the "slip", not finding the obvious flaws in it. (Heck I scumread Flavor Leaf but I knew the slip was bs.) Flavor Leaf, the dude he was sheeping. The dude being voted by me, someone he was quite happy to lynch. He voted without hesitation, without critical thought.

UNVOTE:

He does unvote after

someone else

points this out...

...But why didn't HE, the kind of person who specializes in finding that sort of thing, notice this?

What's more.

He left himself Not Voting there--where he stayed throughout the day.
Why no vote here?
Or here?
Or here?
Here?
When Spike/Jet was being wagoned, why didn't he fight it?
Why didn't he insist that Spike/Jet was town?
Why, when on D1 to counter the Vedith wagon he voted...
...Did he not vote?

On D1, when there was a player he townread (Vedith), Almost50 tried to counterwagon them, and admitted as much.
On D2, a player he townread, Almost50...did nothing for.
The difference between the two is Vedith was scum and Spike/Jet wasn't.
He contributed nothing to the Creature discussion.
He posted, but it was just that--posts. Nothing constructive in them, one way or another. No accusations against Creature, no defense of Creature. Silence.

Then there's the scum's interactions with him.

Okay right now I'm at this.
VOTE: Almost50
Challenge me.

This is blatant scum theater--this is not a real push. This is not an attempt to generate a counterwagon. This is an attempt to make distance.

A50 is town guys.

Why?

More of the same.

The unvote was most likely a hop off the sinking ship. It's not unusual for me to be the main attraction to the death tunnel day 1, so why stay on?
The reason of me panicking, I can't see this being bought by anyone who has played with me previously, yet it was apparently a really good answer to stop voting.

Originally Almost looked to be pushing the game, and when it looks to have little to no pressure on them, it's a bunch of worthless and empty typing.
That said, the game state is in a bad shape, so it's plausible that this is void, but I'm still going with tut tut.

That's all I have as I don't want to vote Gamma yet.

Aside from this being an awkward Gamma interaction as well, this is an awkward push on Almost50.

But this is my point to the game, since I joined in (I take no blame though) majority players are doing fuck all. So the fact that Almost had better looking posts until as of recent means I shouldn't use that as a reason to thing of him as scum... However much I want to.
It's also sad that my biggest current scum read goes ahead because of an unvote on me. But that's how it is.

Here he's already giving reasons for backing out of the scumread on Almost50.

VOTE: Pink Ball

In fact, he drops it altogether.

Why didn't he keep pushing Almost50?

Idk, I havn't seen much of a change with Pink ball or Near. I'd actually put Mastina as an actual town read, she's been completely different then the game I played with her when she was scum. Maybe its so many people causing issues for me, But I have half the reads I'd like.

Vedith is odd

, but don't have strong feelings either ways. However, a flip would help with reads there...

A50 seems crazy still

. Toogeloo post seem odd to me as well.

Pay attention to these reads from Robert as well.

I can do more, but that'd go into Gamma-Almost50 when neither has flipped...yet.

[mastina]

Errr... let's try that without the broken tag?

Almost50, I explained why I put him into my poe pool in the neighborhood. Basically, it's a weak meta read. He was originally cleared of the poe pool--in fact, I thought his vote on SSBF spewed him as being town. But then, today, I realized something when driving home from work: literally every single time I've thought of Almost50 in a specific way, he has actually been scum that game, and I was thinking of him in that way this game.

Almost50's play this game essentially lacks "oomph". He's posting, sure, but there isn't a real strength behind his pushes; there isn't a real fire to be seen. Every time I've seen this, I've thought, "Oh I've seen Almost50 be a little apathetic as town, he looks town for these (superficial) reasons so this must be one of those off-games of his".

And yet, every time I can think of? When I had that thought, he was actually scum. The superficial reasons were superficial, skin-deep, not actually valid, and the lack of oomph wasn't from apathy, or at least not apathy born of problems beyond the keyboard; the lack of oomph was directly correlated to his alignment. And this game, Almost50 is lacking oomph, and the only reason I can really think of for having him as a townread, I'm thinking about and thinking...isn't it kinda superficial?

Ank, I could actually get REALLY good feedback from you, here.
My references for Almost50 as scum are these three games.

His towngames look more like this, this, this, and also this, plus some of this.

You've been in at least a couple of those, so you can compare them to here.

It's not like it's a definitive difference, not a night/day lock-solid foolproof metric.
But.

There IS that trend. Where as town there's just a kind of...oomph to it--one which you can still ignore but it's difficult and annoying. One which has presence enough to demand active effort to not pay attention to it.
Whereas here, I can effortlessly ignore him--I don't need to roll my eyes at him, I can just cruise by without really trying to. Something which tends to not happen when he is actually town, if that makes sense.

Robert/ooba, it's mostly that Robert's play was underwhelming. My reference for his towngame is his play here, and what he did here was just...so, so much less than what he did there. ooba's entrance into the game also felt like it was a scum entrance--all of these are weak reasons, but they do suggest a lurking/apathetic scum that got replaced.

This was the start of the Almost50 case--keep in mind that Ankamius, in private inside her neighborhood, apparently agreed with my conclusion here.

Is the shepherding being done behind the scenes?

It takes a scum player of VERY high caliber to pull that off--who in this list can do that besides myself, maybe-Almost50, Morality/Flavor Leaf, or Reasonably Psychotic. And in the case of Reasonably Psychotic, I already laid out why I don't feel this is Cerb's scum manipulation; there isn't so much as a single trace of it as far as I can see.

Almost50 actually fits as a scum shepherd, and I am going to cite what I did in my neighborhood on the subject:
Assume the scumteam has one individual who is the primary thinker/planner.
Assume it is not Near/Mello.
Assume it is not Reasonably Psychotic.

Aside from me, who fits the description best of being a scum thinker/planner? There's a few who are definitive nos; Joan, Vedith, Pink Ball, Dunnstral. Hypothetically they could be scum and could contribute, but would not be SPEARHEADING discussion of strategy.
There's a few who are capable of it when there's literally nobody else, but are all too happy to take a back seat. Gamma and Elena are who I'd profile as such.
There's a few who I don't know well enough to make a determination one way or another, but I'd guess at not being in the role; that's Chito/Yuuri, Torque, and Robert.

But the list of people who could be scum planners 100% of the time.
Is a small one.

It's {me, Near/Mello, Reasonably Psychotic, Almost50}. (Morality and Severa both counted, but are dead, so.)

If we assume that scum have a planner, then you need to get into each one of the scum planners' mindsets.

Here is where I diverge from my original analysis, because I want to point out:

Votecount 1.16

Vedith(10)

~ Chito and Yuuri(85), mastina(78), Joan of Arc(32), Drixx(22), Gamma Emerald(82), Torque(82), Spike and Jet(127), Near x Mello(97), Almost50(58)

, Vedith(75)

-- HAMMER

Gamma Emerald(3)

~ Elena Fisher(22), Pink Ball(163), Clemency(57)

Pink Ball(2)

~ Robert2424(17), Morality(29)

Joan of Arc(1)

~ Dunnstral(31)

Drixx(1)

~ singletonking(62)

mastina(1)

~ Toogeloo(29)
Not Voting (1): Reasonably Psychotic(55)

Almost50's planning strategy is similar to Morality's: screw the risk, get those counterwagons up. (And, mind you--I wrote this as a case for Morality being scum, so.)

Almost50, himself, was on the wagon, but...
Votecount 1.11

Vedith

(5) ~ Near x Mello(73), Chito and Yuuri(70), Torque(60),

Clemency(43), Spike and Jet(115)

Pink Ball(5) ~ Gamma Emerald(66), Joan of Arc(29),

Robert2424

(15),

Almost50

(44),

Vedith

(41)
mastina(2) ~

Toogeloo

(21), Pink Ball(124)
Gamma Emerald(2) ~ Elena Fisher(20), Dunnstral(25)

singletonking(1) ~ Morality(18)

Reasonably Psychotic(1) ~ mastina(51)

Clemency(1) ~ Drixx(11)

Not Voting (2):

singletonking

(23), Reasonably Psychotic(36)

Votecount 1.15

Vedith

(5) ~ Near x Mello(91), Chito and Yuuri(79),

Clemency

(52), mastina(73), Joan of Arc(32)
Pink Ball(3) ~

Robert2424

(17),

Gamma Emerald

(78),

Morality

(29)
mastina(3) ~

Toogeloo

(25), Almost50(53),

Spike and Jet

(124)
Gamma Emerald(2) ~ Elena Fisher(22), Pink Ball(157)

Drixx(2) ~ singletonking

(48), Torque(67)
Joan of Arc(1) ~ Dunnstral(29)

Clemency(1) ~ Drixx(19)

Not Voting (2):

Vedith

(49), Reasonably Psychotic(47)

As I originally said in my analysis--Almost50's approach as a scum spearhead is almost identical to that of Morality; fuck VCA over by having a scumbloc vote together, because the town won't be expecting it and it will throw them off.

In the former especially, there is that rather suspect pattern where Almost50 is surrounded on both sides of the wagon by scum. And that same wagon, Gamma Emerald would then later join not long after.

I'm seeing Gamma and pink ball wagons be essentially stagnant at where they are from even before vedith-slot became a decently sized wagon.

If the solve of Flavor Leaf-ooba-Toogeloo is correct, then the Pink Ball counterwagon to Vedith had

three

scum on it--not shown in any single votecount, but when you look at it, Robert was on that wagon; Morality was on that wagon; Vedith was on that wagon. The only person in the solve not on that wagon was Toogeloo.

That seems like it counts as trying-yet-failing, because failure was inevitable.

Plus what stops scum from pushing the pink ball or Gamma wagons?

What makes you think they didn't?

Both proven and suspected scum voted in those wagons.

The Vedith wagon had too much going for it to fall apart; the counterwagons were all self-evidently flawed and weak, off of superficial reasoning with the sole exception of the Pink Ball wagon--which DID rival Vedith's...until Pink Ball obvtowned himself.

Pink Ball was the closest to a viable counterwagon, which is shown to have contained scum, but he made that lynch not be viable with how he obvtowned himself. Vedith meanwhile became more and more an appealing lynch because he made misplay after misplay--none of those misplays looked intentional, so much as accidental, genuine, fuckups on his part that screwed him over.

Again, I wrote this about Morality...but it's actually more applicable for Almost50.

Almost50 was on most of the counterwagons to Vedith--Pink Ball and me most notably.

Almost50's Not Voting status I found incredibly suspect, in tandem with him having been in my POE pool.

I'm referring to Almost50's status at the end of D2. I'll be getting more into this in a bit, but keep it in mind.

Ankamius says that Almost is more likely to flip scum than not, and that his flip would be useful either way.

Ankamius has a strong track record for nailing Almost50 as scum.

I had him as a peripheral scumread; Severa had him as a scumread; Ankamius had him as a scumread; that's good enough for me.

And to give that reference--

a50 is

Town: {Ankamius, Gamma Emerald, singletonking, Chito and Yuuri, Joan of Arc, Severa, Torque, mastina}
Dunnstral
Spike and Jet
Toogeloo
Elena Fisher
Reasonably Psychotic
Almost50
ooba
Pink Ball
Near x Mello

first guess at actual scumteam is
{vedith, spike and jet, reasonably psychotic,

almost50

, toogeloo}

So reading Almost50's iso.

Hell yes he's scum, and has sketchy Gamma associatives as well. (Not going into the sketchy Robert associatives and sketchy Vedith interaction.)

A real highlight for me though is this,

@Drixx: I know why you may not think I'm playing to my town meta, but I can't explain it right now. Maybe on D3 or D4 if we're both still alive.

Given who died N1 and all.

I'll be going into these more, as well. Keep paying attention.

This post implies that certain hoods do not contain scums and certain ones do but how would you know that unless you had info on what hoods are available in the game? It’s doubtful that a Townie would be able to do anything but assume let alone speculate on an all scum hood.

What makes you think scum have info about all hoods available in the game
ie
How is bnl's thing more likely coming from scum than town?

I never said that scums had info on the hoods available in the game.

Looking back at BNL's post, it's suspicious that the post he made implies that not all hoods contain scum. It would be one thing if he brought up multiple possibilities like Drixx did when discussing possible house set-ups but he doesn't do that.

We have no idea if all the hoods in the game has a scum or not. Some of us are in one hood, some are in multiples like Morality (who elected to post in one channel and not in the other) but as far as alignments are concerned, there are no confirmations. Given this, it's a big leap to say that one or more of the hoods are all-town unless BNL had prior information knowing where the scums are, which only scum would know.

Kinda sorta feel like this from SSBF was a scumslip he tried to cover up RE: Almost50...who, as scum, has exactly that, access to every channel.

By that, I mean, he tried to project BNL/singleton's claim to an actual real scum role in the hands of another player (Almost50), essentially, and when called out on it by Near x Mello, tried to cover it up.

Take a look at him.
Take a damn good look at him.
Read my points on him.
Realize he ABSOLUTELY kills Drixx here N1; he ABSOLUTELY kills Ankamius (one of the best players in the game at reading him) N2; realize Drixx held suspicions MIRRORING YOUR OWN that Almost50's role was a scum role; realize Ankamius (again, one of the best players in the game at reading him) scumread him; realize that Severa (who, while an imperfect scumhunter, is still a

good

scumhunter) was scumreading him.

Chito: A50 did claim a post restriction and that the post restriction would not cause him to be prodded in the main thread. A post restriction does not make him town with certainty but I do believe the post restriction is likely real.

Repeat after me.

Role != alignment.

His role is real; there's never been any question to that.

The alignment's the important part; I'm pretty sure it's a scum role.

1469 is wrong in ways that are unlikely to come from scum, 73 is a level of early game solving that rarely comes from scum a50 and 1510 works against the way that a50 is more pockety as scum and less combative.

1469 is wrong in exactly the ways I've seen Almost50 be wrong as scum; 73 isn't really game solving; 1510 is responding to me literally the only way which he can; attempting to pocket me would only ensure his lynch and combating me is literally the only way he knows to fight me off.

Considering that AP is A50's "jokey" account, I would say A50's play in this game has a comparable amount of jokiness and random setup speccy stuff compared to Ballroom Blitz, which is a more recent game: viewtopic.php?t=78486&f=23&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

That's the problem.

AP

is his

joke

account.

Almost50

is his

serious

account.

The level of

jokiness

/setup spec stuff in this game is comparable to his

joke

account...
...But he is playing on his

serious

account.

You see the issue with that, yes?

Almost50 is scum on every account--by POE, by Ankamius scumreading him, by Severa scumreading him, by his interactions with flipped scum, sketchy posting throughout the game, by role speculation, and by the nightkills, among other factors.

Chito: I guess I can see where you're coming from a bit better after writing 3456, I can see how at a glance this looks a lot like scum A50. Some of the things I thought he didn't tend to do as scum he actually sometimes does, but I'm still having a hard time seeing him as scum here anyway.

Well then look at all the other factors.

There are four scum in the game--even if Gamma's one of them (which yes I agree with you I think she likely is), she has a partner; who is it?

You agree with the POE of Torque/Pink Ball/Dunnstral/Reasonably Psychotic/Joan as being town...
...Which leaves you a grand total of four names for two scum slots.
If Gamma's scum.
That's still one scum in Elena/NearxMello/Almost50.

POE is HARSH against him.

Even if you ignore the POE pool.

Drixx had setup reasons for suspecting Almost50; do you think that in a ROLE MADNESS game, Drixx was killed exclusively for counterclaiming the scum role? (When there are, in fact, multiple town players--myself included--who have a role acting as a CC to Vedith's, and there are many town roles which CC one another.) We know at this point he wasn't killed to silence his voice in his neighborhood; that theory went debunk when Severa flipped town. Drixx had his eyes on Almost50, for good reason.

Ankamius is one of the best players on mafiascum--dead serious. Well, as town, at least. She's literally one of the worst threats to go up against--while that does mean literally everyone would kill her, it also means she has reason to be respected on her reads...ESPECIALLY her Almost50 read. She is one of the best players at reading Almost50. I rate her ability to read him as better than mine, and according to Joan, she had a rather notable scumread on him.

Severa may have been wrong on Spike/Jet, but RC is also a strong town player; he has a damn good process. He had Almost50 as one of his suspects. While he was vigged, I wouldn't discount the possibility of a scum vig right now, which brings up the question of who as scum would want him dead like that; the answer is, those who were afraid he'd catch them. And Almost50 is in that pool.

There's so much for him being scum, and the most there is for him being town is "he can do this stuff as town; he doesn't have to do this stuff as scum", pretty much. He just makes the most sense as one of the remaining two.

Ank may be good but she was in the thread for like 5 days and was not privy to today's flips, including Toogeloo who might have adjusted her PoE.

Her scumread on Almost50 existed separately from her scumreads elsewhere.

Thus, the flips may have adjusted her other reads, but wouldn't have adjusted her Almost50 read.

Also, no town player is going to have perfect reads, but that doesn't mean you ignore their reads because of the ones which were wrong.

Severa also literally said he just did not read Elena, so it's not like Severa was arguing A50 was scummier than Elena (at least not in this thread, lmk if he posted some night time reads list before he died).

Him ignoring Elena doesn't mean he ignored Almost50; him ignoring Elena doesn't affect how he scumread Almost50.

How does night kill analysis point to Almost being scum in your opinion?

Because Drixx died; Ankamius died. Both had other reasons to die and Almost50 isn't going to kill someone JUST because they scumread him...but they both scumread him.

And Drixx is not such a player.
Drixx, when using logic based around mechanics, is on par with Ellibereth in being convincing--
But only when utilizing that logic based around mechanics.
When based on logic around gameplay, Drixx has charisma arguably worse than Creature.

Drixx had no mechanical reasons to read me, but DID have mechanical reasons to scumread Almost50.
Drixx's scumread on me from play was thus worth jacksquat. It meant absolutely nothing, because Drixx scumreading someone off of play is as harmless as harmless comes.

Yes, his mechanical play is on par with Cerb's, which is why their hydra is devastating in the long-term. Him being a mechanics-based player? He was a fucking non-threat.

When based on logic around gameplay, Drixx has charisma arguably worse than Creature.

And not only does he lack that charisma, but his play-based reads are also town par--they're nothing above average.

And average town is still shitty. Average town is "maybe catches one scum if they're lucky, and if they're really lucky, two", pretty much--and when using gameplay-based reasoning rather than mechanics-based reasoning, that is the level of play I ascribe to Drixx.

So I don't consider him a threat. Him being suspicious of me from gameplay reasons was barely worth a footnote. It certainly wasn't worth a nightkill.

Now, him being suspicious of someone from a role reason, from a mechanical viewpoint of the game...
...THAT is an entirely different thing altogether. THAT is a threat. THAT is where he specializes in fucking scum over. And he was on the right track...if you assume that Almost50 is scum.

Here are the points of interest regarding A50, which he wants you to forget about:

I'll bite, why am I scum A50?

I don't like your voting patterns. Let me give you an example: You think BOTH FL & ooba are scum?

I want to know why you thought I was scumreading FL

I dunno. Probably mistook a post from someone else as being made by you. I went back to ISO you and I don't see why I had that down as a remark next to your name.

I pointed out that I had mentioned something about Morality in my pt, and he ate it up. He then goes on to ask me who scum is in my hood (nonsense, the burden is on him, and the pressure should be on him)
Notably, if scum don't have daytalk then just being scum wouldn't be enough to gather this information, so that point by him is moot anyway. I theorize that he can't see into my neighborhood during the day, but may or may not be able to get info on it during the night, and if he can't then he was just making stuff up

It's time to resolve this. What information does my first post on day 3 inside my neighborhood convey?

Naw, it makes sense. Note this is WITHOUT me bothering to reread anything, or ISO A50.

The strongest argument in favor of him being town was the warning he gave everyone(to share what I was thinking there, he only does that as scum in two situations: If his teammates include Drixx, myself, Wisdom, Alisae, or mastina(just don't see that coming from anyone else in this game who's scum game I'm familiar with), or if a/his scum role includes an ability to spy on/be part of all the PT's). I found it unlikely that his team included the people I thought capable of guiding him towards taking that line, but as the game has gone on I've grown more certain that the scum team has that ability to spy on pt's, so he's really left with nothing in terms of reasons to townread him.

Honestly, pure speculation of course, but I think it's super likely that his absence from the thread right now is part of an ability that let's him look at all the other PT's during this time when he's gone from the main thread.

That's a lot of statements to make.

But let's back them up.

Looking at the players list I don't seem to recall anything Super Smash Bros. Fan or Maria have posted. Checking the activity it's no wonder as each has only posted once (and Maria even did it under an alt).

Could the two of you please step into the center of the stage and perform a first dance?

This is his first interaction with the Vedith slot.

@Gamma: How am I supposed to answer this now? You know my alts, right? Would you be kind enough to figure out the rest?

Nothing to do with alts, everything to do with you hemorrhaging scum-exclusive info previously.

I understand your paranoia, but it's overly naive of you to do so here for several reasons:
1- That was a slip about an in-game mechanic there. Here it was confusion about what game it is and who the mod is.
2- Do you really think I would be so careless as to slip AGAIN here? Like, there it was bc I was a replacement and I jumped the gun. Here I am a starter and have had plenty of time to read, reread and prepare well if I wanted to have anything "planned".
3- When that happened I tried my best to get out of the hole I had dug myself into without explaining much. Here I gave you as much info as I could. Try AP. Period.
Happy?

This is an incredibly awkward interaction with Gamma Emerald.

My inactivity in this thread until now was due to life being busy, not deliberately avoiding the thread.

(Vote: this dude)
This phrasing is most irritating to me. "my inactivity

in this thread

" hints he has been posting "elsewhere", and if that's the case then "busy life" certainly is not the reason.
Please reread his phrasing and compare it to "My inactivity

in this thread

until now" which probably wouldn't have rubbed me the wrong way.
@Super Smash: Please tell us how many posts you has on any channels you're in, and that's for starters.
Oh, and for the VC tool to recognize the vote:
VOTE: Super Smash Bros. Fan

Even for Almost50, this is an "out-there" reasoning for a vote, which reeks of being a bus vote based on TMI.

@Vedith: Why PB?

Continued awkward interactions with the Vedith slot. Up to and including:

@Vedith: Why PB?

Because I'm top voted and I got worried and panicked. You should vote with me.

I love your honesty. here's a reward:
UNVOTE:

Unvoting the slot, and not pressing elsewhere.

Almost50 drops an unvote, and critically--he avoids voting again. He doesn't latch onto something else; he just drops his push, dead, because he "liked his honesty".

I love your honesty. here's a reward:
UNVOTE:

That was a little easy. What if I was lying?

If you had said anything else I would have suspected you were lying. This is the one and only reason I thought might make sense for that vote.

The awkward interaction continues.

Vedith

(5) ~ Near x Mello, Chito and Yuuri, Torque, Clemency, Spike and Jet, <<< all town wagon.. on a

townie

[

X

]

Almost50(1) ~

Vedith

, <<<

town

on town

[

X

]

Not Voting (3): Reasonably Psychotic, Almost50, singletonking, <<< 3 lazy townies (yes, I know I'm one of the 3)

Key notes here.

My theory is Vedith is an easy push, so scum are counting on town to do the job for them.

Hey, Wisdom.
Why the fuck did you call me out on this sort of shit, but not Almost50?

cmon, thats weak. "easy" wagons happen on scum all the time. I agree with your gamma and pink reads.

Separately, it does seem to be weak indeed. However, there are some other (even weaker) indications that -collectively- add up to a "not-so-strong yet not-too-weak" reasoning.
For example, my PoE and my SRs support that conclusion. Of course I cannot be confident without having any flips at all, but IF I am correct about X, Y & Z being the scum team then that's that.
As for Vedith himself, I don't think Scum!him (who had just voted someone and declared it was a survivalistic vote on his counter wagon), would respond to me unvoting him by FoS'ing me. (After all, he knows I'm bad.. I'm bad, he knows it.. ) and he thus was risking me not only revoting him but actually pushing him for real.

@Dunn: I'm not saying he flips red.

In fact I still lean towards a green flip.

HOWEVER, this will never go away. It's better to deal with it NOW than to let scum use it as a smoke screen to keep us chasing our tails all game.

Because Almost50 was doing the very fucking thing

you

were accusing me of doing.

Stalling the Vedith lynch.

@A50: If Vedith is a villager and is an easy push as you say, scum has all the incentive to hop on his wagon yet the wagon came to a halt
Either there is scum already voting there or Vedith is a wolf

No. If they thought town would do the job for them they would stay clear off the wagon and play for time. Maybe they thought it "could" go through without them and now are considering throwing their weight behind it towards the end of the day, but for now are hoping that the town still does the job for them.

Also let's not forget the other 2 wagons are on stronger TRs, and scum wouldn't e stupid enough to try and save one of them by pushing someone unlikely to get lynched on D1. The wagons are thus composed so that any townie looking to consolidate at crunch time would look at the 3 and think Vedith is the right way to go given there are no other options by then.

More Vedith defense.

I support Toog's notion. Let's force scum to hop on counter wagons sooner than later so it will become apparent who's aligned with whom
VOTE: mastina

I was a Vedith counterwagon.

@Drixx: I know why you may not think I'm playing to my town meta, but I can't explain it right now. Maybe on D3 or D4 if we're both still alive.

Almost50 acknowledged that Drixx posed a threat here--Drixx's point on Almost50 was this:

A50 is either having a laugh as an informed/scum role or has somehow managed to be over the top nonchalant as town since the last time I played with him as town.

And this is the crucial bit. Drixx and Cerb both saw the same thing.
Drixx.
And Cerb.
The mechanics-based players.
Both saw the same thing.
When looking at Almost50.
They saw.
A mechanical reason to scumread Almost50.

Drixx. The CO-KING OF MECHANICAL SCUMHUNTING.
AGREEING WITH CERBERUS, THE OTHER CO-KING OF MECHANICAL SCUMHUNTING.
HAD A

MECHANICAL

REASON.
To scumread Almost50.

Almost50 brushed it off.

VOTE: Vedith
All caught up. Not even sure how I feel about this, but letting him off the hook will always come back to haunt us later on regardless of his true alignment.

L-1

This is also a blatant scum bus.

I'd also like to note from D1:

This leaves me with S&J, SSB, Gamma, Joan, Toog (I suspect he may have a 1-shot global protective ability?? ), Drixx, Maria (my nemesis), mastina, Robert & NxM to sort

preliminarily

.

He sorted Spike and Jet.
He sorted Vedith.
He sorted Toogeloo.
He sorted Drixx.
He sorted me.
He sorted Near x Mello.
He sorted Toogeloo.

But Gamma/Joan/Elena/Robert have ambiguous sorts, at best. The closest to a Robert sort?

I feel

left

out.

Actually, you can't be more

right

.

That's literally the extent of his Robert interactions.

Gamma's no better in that regard.

@Gamma: So you've arguing against mastina being worthy of a sheep, and you say Joan of Arc's response isn't a town response, yet you joined the same wagon they're both pushing?? What gives?

Another awkward Gamma interaction.

@Mortality: You're clever, you're funny and -in this game- you're TOWN.

Starts with this...

@Near: Not yet. I am waiting for a few people to come say something useful today before I vote. But, it's likely that I will vote her "eventually" if that's what you're asking.

Refuses to vote...

OH! A MASTINA TRAIN! I LOVE IT!!
VOTE: mastina

...Votes me...

Near/Elena/Torque scum team

Well, I'm on Elena and I thought you were too. Let's lynch this first then we see who else. I don't think both Near & Torque bused Vedith, so I believe at least one of then is Town here.

...Is even sheeping Flavor Leaf...

No. I know his play and I kinda know when he's being manipulative-as-scum vs manipulative-as-town. FL is dropping his guard here, which is something he never does as scum. He is making himself overly vulnerable, and he

could indeed

get lynched TODAY, yet he's not backing off. It's because he

believes

he's right about you being scum (which is one major reason I'm calling his reads shit).

...And defending him...

We have no idea if all the hoods in the game has a scum or not. Some of us are in one hood, some are in multiples like Morality (who elected to post in one channel and not in the other)

This is interesting
Did Morality end up posting in any other channel?

*Sigh*
I can't argue with THAT.
VOTE: Flavor Leaf

...But when a Flavor Leaf lynch seemed viable, he jumped on, not questioning the nature of the "slip", not finding the obvious flaws in it. (Heck I scumread Flavor Leaf but I knew the slip was bs.) Flavor Leaf, the dude he was sheeping. The dude being voted by me, someone he was quite happy to lynch. He voted without hesitation, without critical thought.

UNVOTE:

He does unvote after

someone else

points this out...

...But why didn't HE, the kind of person who specializes in finding that sort of thing, notice this?

What's more.

He left himself Not Voting there--where he stayed throughout the day.
Why no vote here?
Or here?
Or here?
Here?
When Spike/Jet was being wagoned, why didn't he fight it?
Why didn't he insist that Spike/Jet was town?
Why, when on D1 to counter the Vedith wagon he voted...
...Did he not vote?

On D1, when there was a player he townread (Vedith), Almost50 tried to counterwagon them, and admitted as much.
On D2, a player he townread, Almost50...did nothing for.
The difference between the two is Vedith was scum and Spike/Jet wasn't.
He contributed nothing to the Creature discussion.
He posted, but it was just that--posts. Nothing constructive in them, one way or another. No accusations against Creature, no defense of Creature. Silence.

Then there's the scum's interactions with him.

Okay right now I'm at this.
VOTE: Almost50
Challenge me.

This is blatant scum theater--this is not a real push. This is not an attempt to generate a counterwagon. This is an attempt to make distance.

A50 is town guys.

Why?

More of the same.

The unvote was most likely a hop off the sinking ship. It's not unusual for me to be the main attraction to the death tunnel day 1, so why stay on?
The reason of me panicking, I can't see this being bought by anyone who has played with me previously, yet it was apparently a really good answer to stop voting.

Originally Almost looked to be pushing the game, and when it looks to have little to no pressure on them, it's a bunch of worthless and empty typing.
That said, the game state is in a bad shape, so it's plausible that this is void, but I'm still going with tut tut.

That's all I have as I don't want to vote Gamma yet.

Aside from this being an awkward Gamma interaction as well, this is an awkward push on Almost50.

But this is my point to the game, since I joined in (I take no blame though) majority players are doing fuck all. So the fact that Almost had better looking posts until as of recent means I shouldn't use that as a reason to thing of him as scum... However much I want to.
It's also sad that my biggest current scum read goes ahead because of an unvote on me. But that's how it is.

Here he's already giving reasons for backing out of the scumread on Almost50.

VOTE: Pink Ball

In fact, he drops it altogether.

Why didn't he keep pushing Almost50?

Idk, I havn't seen much of a change with Pink ball or Near. I'd actually put Mastina as an actual town read, she's been completely different then the game I played with her when she was scum. Maybe its so many people causing issues for me, But I have half the reads I'd like.

Vedith is odd

, but don't have strong feelings either ways. However, a flip would help with reads there...

A50 seems crazy still

. Toogeloo post seem odd to me as well.

Pay attention to these reads from Robert as well.

I can do more, but that'd go into Gamma-Almost50 when neither has flipped...yet.

[mastina]

whoever is listening to fl here should quit mafia

^

Or maybe youd like to look at this post where mastina encourages my tunnel on FL
And maybe think to yourself, even if mastina thought FL is scum, why the hell would she encourage such a toxic comment from Wisdom? But I guess mastina only has issues with how I play when I'm scumreading her, am I right?

Pretty much, yeah.

Your point on Flavor Leaf had merit.

Your points on me do not.

this post alone is almost being obvtown
but lets assume that you guys are not familiar and think scum almost would do this for some weird reason instead of, you know, just not posting at all and spy on all the hoods.

read his exchange with dunn, where hes playing off dunn's lack of awareness that scum dont have a daykill.
read his reaction to the supposed fl scumspew by ssbf - he instantly votes fl believing it was a spew, only to then realize it wasnt.
see how he's taken his multi channel role seriously and has attempted to use them to produce things. he even thought he was forced to reveal being in a hood because he would have a prod timer today, only to figure out there's no prod for him today.
and the list goes on and on. there are tons of reasons almost is town here.

None of those things are town-indicative and some are scum-indicative.

[Torque]

jesus christ my eyes

[Near x Mello]

yes almost is in ch5

[Dunnstral]

I'm down to A50 and Pink ball for todays lynch.

[Near x Mello]

both are town

[mastina]

Elena: I'm pretty sure either Mastina or yourself *could*be lynched today.

I am hard-vetoing the Elena lynch idea.

She doesn't get an indefinite pass but does get at least until tomorrow at the very earliest.

Mastina:you drastically overstating the influence you had on the scum wagons, and understating your efforts to stall those wagons. Unfortunately,this is something I always see you do regardless of alig ment.

I did more than fucking enough for showing the Robert slot was scum.
I didn't quote these earlier, but:

Wouldn't lynch Robert except as a last-resort, but I would because he's one of those "just...kinda......

there

" reads which usually contain

some

scum, thus willingness to do so. (So basically, not a scumread, but not untouchable, either.)

This was the first part of my Robert case.
He was just "kinda there", a zone which usually contains scum.
I knew this, and called him a probable candidate.

Robert2424
Dunnstral
Near x Mello
Toogeloo
Reasonably Psychotic

This is probably a more accurate readslist.

Note that Robert is much lower on this one--but that's more an accurate reflection of my real read there, I feel.

And expanded on that here.

Fourth tier's "this is the group of meh players--I'm not scumreading them, but these probably contain a scum (or maybe two) statistically speaking".

Robert was a fourth-tier read. A willing-to-lynch read. A compromise lynch read at the time.

Like I said, order doesn't matter that much. My order right now would probably be Reasonably Psychotic > Toogeloo >

Robert

> Morality > Near/Mello and only if that doesn't win the game > Dunnstral.

Robert was my third-strongest preference--and given Toogeloo's role, second actual preference behind the, once more, hard-if-not-impossible RP lynch.

Just like Vedith on D1.

Easy. You town, Toog town, scumteam's Morality,

Robert

, and NearxMello.

You town, Toog scum, scumteam's Morality-

Robert

with no Near/Mello.

You scum, Toog town, scumteam's probably still Morality-

Robert

.

Robert appeared in literally every single scumteam combo.

Do you have a lot of familiarity with robert? You've kinda moved him into your lower tier poe but I don't really see you talking about your scumread of him independently. Why is robert scum?

I don't have much experience with him, only a single game.

He's not really a scumread in the conventional sense; I actually already explained why he's one:
He fits in the gaps, in the zone which usually has a scum or two. Someone slipping under the radar, who doesn't attract attention. Not strongly present, scumread, or townread; just…kinda THERE.

Initially, Robert was nulltown; I loosely thought his contributions might be in line with my prior game with him. However, when you pair the above reasoning with the passage of time (he no longer looks like he's in line with said prior game; there's too little content, because he gave way more by this point), it sticks out.

He's not a major scumread, because these reasonings are both weak. Maybe not matching a single town game? Being a scumread because of being neither a scumread nor a townread? Weak reasons, even in tandem. But that's where the read is coming from.

In short, poe plus weak meta.

Here I expand on the case for why he's scum.

And I thought you didn't fully agree with my analysis

I didn't, at the time. Then the gamestate changed.

Realizing that Robert was in a more suspicious spot than I had previously assumed him to be.
A bunch of little things adding up told me that while I was in fact on the right track with my poe, I got the combo wrong when I had my three scum as Near/Mello, Reasonably Psychotic, and Toogeloo. That two of the scum were Morality and

Robert

, with the third in my original three scumreads, with the least likely as Near x Mello and most likely as Toogeloo.

And yes, I do think the solve is exactly that. Morality-Toogeloo-

Robert

.

Again. He was one of my top three. Who the three were was different, but the result was the same.
I couldn't push Toogeloo because he was set to die N2.
I could and did push Morality, but more on that below.

Robert has only some weak reasons for being scum; I feel they are right, but they're weak. I laid them out before; it's a combination of him being in the lurker zone, of him providing more content as town so weak burden-of-proficiency, of him basically being poe-scum. He is a low-profile player, and regardless of a scumflip or a townflip his flip gives us next-to-zero information to work off of. If he's scum as I suspect, it does deprive the scum of an additional member and make them slightly more desperate, but it doesn't trigger an auto-loss for them, not even if he's their strongest scum role.

There's also the fact that Robert is probably being replaced soon--him not having given much (half the reason I think he's scum) could be null due to real life stuff interfering, so my hope is that a replacement comes in and the replacement gives us a much better read on the slot. There's almost nobody who could replace in without me being fully confident I'd be able to read them and clear the slot up; give final proof that it's a scum slot, or give evidence that the read was wrong. And regardless of which, said replacement would give us more info.

So while I'm not against a Robert lynch, it's not ideal.

But my preference would be Morality >

Robert

> Toogeloo > Reasonably Psychotic > Near x Mello > Literally Any Other Player In The Game.

Doesn't get more blatant than this. I cased Robert and had him, explicitly, as my secondary lynch candidate.

You did attempt a counterwagon, to your credit--one which had, at a time, no less than three scum candidates on it. (Albeit possibly not at the same time, would need to check that to verify.)

Votecount 1.11

Vedith(5)

~ Near x Mello(73), Chito and Yuuri(70), Torque(60), Clemency(43), Spike and Jet(115)

Pink Ball(5)

~ Gamma Emerald(66), Joan of Arc(29), Robert2424(15), Almost50(44), Vedith(41)

mastina(2)

~ Toogeloo(21), Pink Ball(124)

Gamma Emerald(2)

~ Elena Fisher(20), Dunnstral(25)

Votecount 1.15

Vedith(5)

~ Near x Mello(91), Chito and Yuuri(79), Clemency(52), mastina(73), Joan of Arc(32)

Pink Ball(3)

~ Robert2424(17), Gamma Emerald(78), Morality(29)

mastina(3)

~ Toogeloo(25), Almost50(53), Spike and Jet(124)

Gamma Emerald(2)

~ Elena Fisher(22), Pink Ball(157)

Drixx(2)

~ singletonking(48), Torque(67)

Specifically, I am referring to the Pink Ball counterwagon; Robert, Vedith, and yourself all appear on it.

It just didn't go through, because it

couldn't

go through.

Here I brought up Robert's presence on the Pink Ball wagon being suspicious-as-fuck.

The gang of them have constantly said either me or Robert, and they’ve very much almost forgotten about Elena.

That would be because Elena has shown she's town and won't be lynched today; you and Robert, no such showing.

Another push on Robert.

Hello! Hello!
86 pages.. Starting the read now..

80% sure that this entrance is a hard scumclaim here.

I called this a scum entrance, which I elaborated on in my neighborhood PT; Torque can confirm this because I'm pretty sure it was him who interrogated me on this callout. Someone in my 'hood at least did; they asked me about it, and I went into the reasons for why it was a scum entrance.

Robert/ooba, it's mostly that Robert's play was underwhelming. My reference for his towngame is his play here, and what he did here was just...so, so much less than what he did there. ooba's entrance into the game also felt like it was a scum entrance--all of these are weak reasons, but they do suggest a lurking/apathetic scum that got replaced.

Another push.

Honestly at this stage I think the right play is to lynch both the Flavor Leaf and Robert/ooba slots, with Toogeloo set to die tonight, and then off of a combination of roles and flips, figure out where the poe went wrong, where the poe was imperfect, with that extra info unavailable on D2.
Or I guess get a perfect town win, if I really did nail the team, but the chances of that are, statistically speaking, so astronomically low that realistically speaking, we should prepare for the assumption that 1-2 of those three flip town.

In other words:
Work under the assumption those three are the scum, but

plan

for them not all being scum; continue working on trying to get a more perfect solve, but work under the solve we currently have until such a time as we have a better one.
The best solve I've got is ooba-Toogeloo-FLslot; I'll be working with that until I have a better one.

And another.

Ok so anyway, let me give you more of an actual introduction....

The only player I know here is Almost50 who I played with a few months ago. Otherwise the rest of you probably don’t know me and I don’t know you. Personally I don’t view this as a problem because I give 0 shits about meta and any meta-analysis. My reads are always entirely based on the situation and the motivations behind them. In fact it always amuses me to no end when people freely hand out playbooks to the scum team when they openly discuss “behavior X is towny of him and behavior Y is scummy”. So don’t count on me participating in any meta analysis here.

I have a few gut reactions but keep in mind that I didn’t officially inherit this role until late-ish last night and have only had about 2 hours to read up on over 3000 posts. My reads will come eventually. It does also help simply to get involved so I’m hoping to poke my head in a lot during these first few real-life days to get a better sense of you all.

Finally, anime is just an excuse for adults to keep watching cartoons and I don’t know a damn thing about anime. Shoot me.

Alright as if there were really any question...

VOTE: SuperfluousNinja.
Robert was playing in a way which loosely suggested he was scum, and the flake reeked of being an apathetic scum flakeout.
ooba's utter in-and-out without so much of a word of analysis reeked of being an apathetic scum flakeout.
And this entrance is a scum entrance.

And I just quoted all my fucking posts here, don't make me do it again.

I was one of the two fucking hardest pushers of SuperfluousNinja here.

I hounded him, constantly--every post on D3 was pushing him.

On D1, sure, I didn't push Robert.
But on D2 he was always a push--my neighborhood can vouch for the fact that I wanted to switch my vote to ooba, but I didn't want to fight with Severa and voting the counterwagon to Spike/Jet was something I was afraid would cause a fight there when I knew I needed to pick and choose my battles.

Heck I already said this before.

On D2.
My three pushes were on Flavor Leaf, Toogeloo, and ooba.
I dropped my Flavor Leaf push altogether when Severa replaced in; I stopped pushing him as scum altogether.
I had a plan for dealing with Toogeloo.
The conclusion from that is obvious.

If I wasn't going to push Severa--which there's strong evidence I wasn't going to--and I wasn't going to push Toogeloo.

Who the fuck was I going to push?

Exactly. ooba.

I've pushed Robert's slot for the vast majority of the game.

And while I didn't

push

Vedith, I

contributed

there; I just fucking wrote a lengthy post about THAT, too.

I can certainly see the kills performed this game, and the sacrifice of two dead weight slots as within her range(your anti-bussing tendencies are irrelevant here, mastina, for reasons you outlined yourself: attempts were made to save Vedith

Attempts were NOT fucking made to save Vedith, and YOU ARE THE PLAYER WHO FUCKING SHOULD KNOW BETTER.

Above all others.

YOU fucking know.

My language.

My choice of words.

Better than any other player here.

And you fucking know my philosophies, too.
You've seen me play enough that you know how I operate as town.
I fucking compromise.
Vedith was a compromise.

I didn't fucking FIGHT the Vedith lynch.

I fucking ACCEPTED A COMPROMISE on the Vedith lynch.

And you, having read my fucking posts.

Should fucking KNOW I fucking compromise on lynches.
In the fucking way.
I compromised on Vedith.

It is my own fucking way of contributing.

Because I know being too bullheaded past a certain point is counterproductive.
I know when I am fighting a losing battle.
I know when to pick and choose my fights as town.
I could never get you, my preferred lynch back then, lynched on D1.
So if I couldn't get my preferred lynch on D1.
I needed to fucking compromise.

If I needed to fucking compromise.

I needed to compromise in a way which was productive.

And contributing to the Vedith lynch.

Was my compromise, was me being productive.

You fucking KNOW.

That as scum.

I easily.

EASILY.

Could have kept pushing anyone else.

You fucking KNOW.

That as scum.

I easily.

EASILY.

Could have hard-bussed Vedith.

But no.

I didn't hard-bus Vedith and I didn't hard-defend Vedith and I didn't hard-push someone else futilely; I. fucking. compromised. On Vedith.

Literally everything I do CAN be done as scumastina.
ANYTHING I do can be scumastina.
Because scumastina is one of the best scum players on site.
Flexible, adaptable, always changing things up, always catching people off-guard by shifting her play, molding it to specific players.
I can do anything as scum.

Yet I have a fucking track record you know all too well.

Of NOT doing things this way.

Because I don't fucking throw scumbuddies away as a fucking compromise lynch.
I could.
But I

don't

.

And you fucking know better than to think I do.

[Pink Ball]

I'm down to A50 and Pink ball for todays lynch.

Thanks for the insight into your reads Dunnstral, give me a few minutes and I'll let you guys know who we're actually lynching today

Anyone wanting to lynch A50 and Pink Ball today should reapply for the newbie queue

[mastina]

Also, I'd sort of like a mass flavor claim today. People can change their rolea tonight, so minimal scum knowledge gained, and having these claims on the record will be useful in determining the likely truth behind action claims for the last two nights.

Thoughts? Objections?

I have a better idea.

Tomorrow, D4.

Everyone massclaims--their full original role, AND, their full current role.

Today we do nothing.

D4 is plenty of time for everyone to have gotten used to their abilities, both old and new, and gotten some use, some mileage, out of them. We will also be in the perfect spot information-wise. Also, there's less people alive than we would think for D3; lylo/mylo is dangerously close, and it will come to us faster than we anticipate. We're at just the level ahead as we should be for one, too; scum only have two roles left, giving them a grand total of three ways to interfere with town (two actions plus the nightkill). They can't use more than one action (aside from the kill), just like the town can't, so they can't stop everyone.

(Plus I have a selfish reason to not want to flavor claim today, but by tomorrow post-switch said reason won't exist; I kinda want to spend time roleplaying as my character if as I suspect, someone's alt-role has an interaction with my role. I think my status as Informed is tied to a specific alt-role; the information tells me that they aren't in the game

now

, but I suspect that the info is there to prepare for them appearing. It could be lovers, could be masons, or disappointingly, just neighbors, but I think there's an alt-role that is tied to my current role and if I'm right I want to spend the night roleplaying with them about it, which isn't as fun if my flavor's public, so.)

[mastina]

no whats absolute shit is you trying to blah blah your way out of obvscum country

I was never obvscum.

Your case was shit and I showed why.

okay, its after the vedith lynch so its not part of his stalling posts
but the overall point remains

I proved I wasn't stalling.

Interested now?

[Torque]

yes almost is in ch5

Can you tell him to either answer my questions or tell Pink Ball to deliver his answers

[Pink Ball]

@Yukiteru I don't mind about the claiming thing, I already claimed myself. But I do think that a massclaim right now is giving the scumteam an opportunity to derail the actual scumhunting it's going on right now to a gamestate where the conversation is mainly about who could be scum based on their roles. That's not scumhunting, that's just using the setup design to make speculations. I think there's enough content to get cases going. If we were stagnant right now, sure, the massclaim would be great. But we aren't.

[Pink Ball]

yes almost is in ch5

Can you tell him to either answer my questions or tell Pink Ball to deliver his answers

Hello, is it me you're looking for?

[Torque]

Did A50 answer

[Pink Ball]

He said this:

Pink Ball(5) ~ Gamma Emerald(66), Joan of Arc(29), Robert2424(15), Almost50(44), Vedith(41)

Yes, because I'd definitely be voting with my whole scum team (mastina assumes it's me and Gamma, right?). That's GOOD scum play. Got it.

[mastina]

@Mastina: go reread SNs flip, please and thank you.

Well if you mean this:

With this honed skill, any nightkills made by you will become critical and cannot be saved by any healing roles. (I'm speaking about roles like Doctor)}.

If Pink Ball's bulletproof is classified as a healing role, it'd puncture through that, but since that was an N3 unlock, point taken.

I'd like to be rated in all metrics as town! Please put that as a priority on par with explaining why you wouldnt nk drixx.

You're Drixx, but with higher accuracy and slightly higher charisma.

Co-king of mechanics.
Not very convincing.
But reads as slightly better than random--not significantly higher, but higher all the same.

The main danger is that you and I have played more than Drixx and I have together; it's about a 1.5 - 1.75x difference, not huge, but significant enough to be noteworthy. If I wasn't pushing you as a lynch on D1 and D2 (I cased you pretty hard overnight in the neighborhood), I would in fact kill you N1.

However, because I never kill players who I am pushing as scum, when I'm scum...and I was pushing you as scum...that means that scumastina gives you immortality. (Granted, there is the question of whether scumastina would even push you in the first place--or rather. scumastina would push you, but would she keep doing so all day? She loves to tunnel on big-name players, but she also runs the risk of drawing too much attention to herself, and can get more mileage from you by working with you and manipulating you than by pushing you as scum. So, 50/50 there.)

wow you won't even consider me to nk just b.c. neighbourhood, thats depressing

Of course not.

A neighborhood caused a person, when my slot was

literally confirmed scum

, to STILL not want to lynch me. It had to be explained to them multiple times that, yes. We were in fact, 100%, absolutely, beyond all shadow of a doubt, confscum for him to lynch us. Because my neighborhood manipulation was

just. that. damn. good.

And you may note that everyone in our neighborhood (to my knowledge) is townreading me pretty much, yeah?

Not an asset I throw away as scum; I exploit it to the maximum.

Not a slip. Multiple scum strongmen are extremely improbable, so it's just her screwing up the role.

Hey Cerb.

Legit question.

If you think multiple scum strongmen are extremely improbable...

...What are your thoughts on multiple scum roleblockers-exclusively-for-females?

Because my N2 unlock was precisely that, which is the reason why I wasn't afraid of Toogeloo being a pgo. A female-exclusive roleblock, based around groping my target. (Like I said, my character is as gay as gay can gets. <3)

[Pink Ball]

I read all what mastina said and I feel like she's projecting her own scummyness on a player that she thinks that plays like her. Like, saying that A50 could do that voting thing with his teammates because no one would suspect they're voting together, could be used against mastina and Ninja Boy's interactions

[Near x Mello]

torque where are your questions

[Torque]

Pink Ball hasn't delivered them I see zzz

[mastina]

You know what, go ahead and sub me out of this game.

I’ve been pissed all day because of Mastina pointlessly gloating over me apparently misusing an acronym and her taking advantage of that to feel better about herself. I don’t need this shit. This is supposed to be fun and all this game has left me with is a shit ton of stress.

You all have accepted a level of toxicity that I just do not support. I don’t intend on returning.

btw this post comes as a response to dunn's push.

Oh, did it now?

Let's see...did SuperfluousNinja say "I've been pissed all day because of Dunnstral pointlessly gloating"?

Funny.

It seems that he had a very weird spelling of Dunnstral, given it says 'M a s t i n a'.

Yeah fuck that shit.

You're fucking denying it.
He literally fucking said it was because of me.
It's literally right fucking there in his post.
He namecalled ME.

He was ticked at ME.
He was pissed off at ME, tilted because of what *I* did.

If he were mad at Dunnstral, if it were Dunnstral that caused that, he would've named Dunnstral.

He didn't.